Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 September 3

= September 3 =

How Do I Create a Page for a Term Automatically Redirecting to Another Page?
I want to create a page for Russell Hantz, who was a contestant on Survivor: Samoa and Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains. Right now, typing Russell Hantz will just redirect you to Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains, but I want to create a page that talks about his key moves in both seasons as well as his personal life. How do I create a page for a term that automatically redirects to another page?
 * [Note; discussions on this topic are continuing in another thread below. Regards.  ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    ―Œ  ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  05:18, 4 September 2010 (UTC)]

RandJshow (talk) 03:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * When you click on Russell Hantz, you'll be redirected to the Survivor article as you mentioned. At the top of that article, you'll see a link (under the Survivor title) back to the RHantz redirect.  Click that.  You can then edit Hantz's article.  Before you do all that though, make sure that Hantz is notable per WP:BIO.  Just because he was on the show, that doesn't mean that he deserves his own article.  Dismas |(talk) 03:16, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Russell Hantz was merged per Articles for deletion/Russell Hantz (2nd nomination). Please do not recreate this in articlespace. Instead, create a draft in your userspace— I suggest using the Article wizard. Once you thing you are done, put it up for Peer review. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 03:23, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Just to confirm so I don't waste a lot of time, I can't create his page the normal way, but if I create it in my userspace and put it up for review, it will be posted if it's approved, right? RandJshow (talk) 03:34, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

To be honest i think your wasting your time it was recently deleted...But that said you could make it in  ---> User:RandJshow/sandbox and after you think its ok   simply ask for a peer review... But before that read Verifiability, Cite_sources and References.... Moxy (talk) 03:44, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You should also read Notability (people) and Notability. It is important to be able to show that he meets one of those guidelines.   GB  fan  04:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't we mean Requests for feedback rather than Peer review? – ukexpat (talk) 17:55, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Historical diff of a moved page
At WikiCup/History/2010/finalists we are having trouble finding a historical diff for one of the WP:CUP finalists who changed user names during the competition. How can I find historical diffs for WikiCup/History/2010/Submissions/Coldplay Expert which has been moved to WikiCup/History/2010/Submissions/White Shadows?


 * The page history moves when a page is moved so the "history" link works on the new name and I'm not sure what your problem is. Can you be more specific? The history of the original name only shows the move. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:13, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

another editor to my account
Hello Wikipedia,

I have recently created an account with Wikipedia. It is frozen now because it gave me a message saying the another editor is editing my page and is asking me if I am the real owner of my account with Wikipedia and I can not edit my page any more.?--E:Y,?:G (talk) 06:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see any notice on your talk page advising you that anything has been done to your account. It is possible that you encountered an edit conflict because you and the person posting a welcome message on your talk page were trying to edit that talk page at the same time.  This is nothing to worry about and is quite normal.  Dismas |(talk) 06:24, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not positive, but I think this is more than an edit conflict - normally I would have thought so too, but the bit about asking me if I am the real owner of my account with Wikipedia made me pause. E:Y,?:G, can you paste the exact message you got here (assuming that it occurs again)? --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 18:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

How to report an abuser coordinator?
The coordinator used what powers he has to force his point of view. How can I get a third party to help me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaboha (talk • contribs) 06:36, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Perusing your contributions, I find no specific mod to which you are referring. For a 3rd opinion, please see WP:3O and follow the directions to list your conflict. However, I strongly suggest you wait till someone responds to you, as I fail to see that a discussion is in progress. Protector of Wiki (talk) 07:12, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you have a specific person with whom you are upset? TN X Man  13:38, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. It is has been resolved.Jaboha (talk) 22:20, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Dutch Het
I need to know what het means in Dutch. I found it used everywhere and looks to be a definite article. In this instance please: "Usils- genitivus van Usil, Sol, zon (in het Sabijns: Ausel)".Zanzan32 (talk) 08:31, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've copied this to the Language Reference Desk for you. This Help Desk is for questions about Wikipedia itself.  Rojomoke (talk) 10:43, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Google Map
I was thinking of putting onto an article a map of the town where a murder occurred, marking all the key events, i.e. something like this: File:Moors murders map.jpg. Would using a screenshot of the the Google Map to work on break copyright laws? If so are there any other available maps to use, or should I create it myself?--EchetusXe 09:49, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Google Maps is copyrighted, so you can't use a screenshot of a map in an article like you want. If you want an image with as much detail as File:Moors murders map.jpg, you'll probably have to create your own. Another option (likely with less detail) is to use .  For example:


 * creates the image on the right. It'll use another template based on the location name (I used "California" so it used Template:Location map California) so make sure that one exists for the area you want in Category:Location map templates.  --Mysdaao talk 12:17, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Might I suggest OpenStreetMap? Magog the Ogre (talk) 12:25, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll use OpenStreetMap, thanks!--EchetusXe 12:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If you upload your map to Wikimedia Commons (the preferred upload destination, so all the Wikipedias can use your map), put it into Commons:Category:OpenStreetMap maps by placing the Commons:Template:OpenStreetMap template on it. --Teratornis (talk) 04:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Same page, different languages?
I'm sure there is a policy on this some where. I just don't know the answer. I was looking to find the german and spanish term for Raster graphics. I found the english here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphic

I wanted to find the pages in spanish an german but noticed there was no link to the equivalent pages in those languages. Is there a policy of not cross linking between language versions of wikipedia?

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%A1fico_rasterizado

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastergrafik

If cross linking is allowed I'd love to update that page with the correct links. —Preceding unsigned comment added by STHayden (talk • contribs) 14:31, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I see links to the equivalent pages listed on the very left-hand side of the page. The links are marked Deutsch and Español. You may also want to look at WP:Interwiki links for more info. TN X Man  14:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * View the left column after clicking on this link. Warm regards.  ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    ―Œ  ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  18:28, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

What is the procedure when an RS has not updated their site?
What is Wikipedia's procedure when an RS has not updated their site, though the facts on the ground have changed since they last updated? My question this time regards Scouting. http://www.scout.org/ is the best RS, but infrequently and haphazardly updated, understandably as they are busy running the world's largest youth movement. Per http://www.scout.org/en/about_scouting/facts_figures/census, "There are 6 countries without Scouting." This was true, it is no longer true, they just haven't updated it. Those nations are Andorra, Burma, Cuba, Laos, North Korea and formerly the PRC, however see Scout Association of the People's Republic of China and http://sac.clubspaces.com/Default_css.aspx. How then should we proceed in the face of this? The RS is outdated but it's the most RS.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 16:23, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * PS-per http://www.scout.org/en/around_the_world/countries/scouting_elsewhere, last update was Friday 12 June 2009.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 16:29, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing says that any reliable source is perfect. If two reliable sources contradict each other, editorial judgment is required. This kind of thing is what footnotes are for. Change it to "5", show both sources in the footnote, and note that the update time of the main source lags the inception date of the new scouting organization.&mdash;Kww(talk) 16:36, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * That would be close to a synthesis of available data, and a presumption that what lags/or doesn't lag, is less/or more reliable. The correct method out here would be that as long as the sources are reliable, mention the details given in all sources, even if they are contradictory, and cite the sources appropriately without giving any source undue weight. For future questions on reliable sources, you could post your queries on our reliable sources noticeboard. Feel free to write back here for any additional help on how to use Wikipedia. Warm regards.  ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    ―Œ  ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  17:02, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I raised concerns about this being synthesis here some time ago. DuncanHill (talk) 17:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * As of can be used for potentially dated statements, and the source can sometimes be mentioned in the body of the article when relevant, for example: there are 6 countries where scouting does not exist to the knowledge of the World Organization of the Scout Movement. (follow with inline reference to ) PrimeHunter (talk) 17:07, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

This is a simple math problem, and doesn't approach a WP:OR/WP:SYNTH violation. Certainly the information and contradiction needs to be addressed in a footnote, but this kind of routine discrepancy doesn't rise to the kind of problem that needs to be detailed in the main article.&mdash;Kww(talk) 17:38, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * It's primarily a question of reliable sources. Is a Clubspaces site a reliable source for Wikipedia? DuncanHill (talk) 17:43, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a valid question. I answered based on the idea that one reliable source contradicted another. If one source is considered substantially less reliable, then the discrepancy should be highlighted in the article text, not placed in a footnote.&mdash;Kww(talk) 18:12, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Standard time zone
If I want to list 'March 3, 2002, 12:56 PM, EST' as a date for when something was published in a reference in the Cite web, do I need to convert it to a different time zone like UTC? --Devourer09 17:16, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you be more specific about the case? I'm not sure what the relevance is. Do you want to include the time of day in the reference? We generally don't do that but there might be a reason in rare situations, for example to let readers know that the source may have other information than was known later in the day. Or do you want to know which date should be given if the date is different for local time of the source and UTC? If the source is dated and the time of day is not important then you should normally just state the date given by the source without specifying a time zone. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:28, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there a particular reason why the time is needed? I generally use just dd Mmmmmmm yyyy when citing websites/news/etc. Unless it is something which changes often within a day, I'm not sure of the need of the time. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 18:17, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No Devourer, it's not mandatory to convert the time quoted in a reference into UTC. In general, time stamps in citations are more used when one is citing a Wikipedia article. For example (as I notice you have been working on Seduction community), if I were to refer to Seduction community and cite the same with a date plus time stamp, I could use any of the enclosed. Does that answer your query? If not, please write back. Warm regards.  ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    ―Œ  ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  18:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys for the answer. I appreciate it. --Devourer09 15:25, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Gen Joseph Taluto General Commanded Infantry Divition Vew York
Dear Sir, Tell me about Gen Joseph Taluto his current location and contact details. regards, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.157.217.15 (talk) 18:31, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Symbol_move_vote.svg You might find what you are looking for in the article about Joseph Taluto. If you cannot find the answer there, you can try asking your question at Wikipedia's Reference Desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except about how to use Wikipedia, which is what this help desk is for). I hope this helps.  TN X Man  18:34, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * You should contact the New York State Division of Military and Naval Affairs directly.  ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    ―Œ  ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  19:01, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

New Listing
Hi, How would I post a new listing on Wikipedia? thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lauraalfred (talk • contribs) 18:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Before creating an article, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines with which all articles should comply. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.


 * Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.


 * If you still think an article is appropriate, see Your first article. You might also look at How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. An Article Wizard is also available to walk you through creating an article. TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  18:50, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Please note that Wikipedia is not a directory for "listings", it is an encyclopedia containing articles about notable subjects. So please read the links in Tnxman's reply very carefully. – ukexpat (talk) 18:55, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Dear Lauraalfred, Kindly do clarify what exactly your question is... In case you wish to introduce a new list in Wikipedia, one should recommend that you read the following three articles thoroughly before embarking upon the exercise->
 * Stand-alone lists
 * Lists
 * Embedded list
 * Our portal on lists, Portal:Contents/Lists of topics would be an interesting read too. At the same time, in case you wish to write a new article, the first answer above by Tnxman should be an appropriate reference point. Do write back for further support. Warm regards.  ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex"> ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  19:24, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

fullurl and external data
I want to use the in fullurl: like this: [] however, i can't seem to make this work. Is there any other way to make this work?--Hengsheng120 (talk) 20:25, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * You will probably get a quicker response at the techie pump. – ukexpat (talk) 20:28, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Where do I report hoaxes ?
I think the article on Paulius Galaunė is a hoax, but the edit filter will not let me delete. Anton dvsk (talk) 22:04, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * What makes you think it is a hoax? --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * See Do not create hoaxes and stop deleting random parts of the article. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * There seem to be some web references, but I would think there is some question of WP:NOTABILITY. Perhaps you should propose deletion and see what happens. -- Q Chris (talk) 22:15, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Seems fairly notable to me. Haploidavey (talk) 22:29, 3 September 2010 (UTC)