Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 August 31

= August 31 =

Signing Talk contributions
[A search on this phrase returns nil] I forgot to login, and posted a talk copntributon. I want to sign it. Can I login in from the same IP and remove or sign it? Thanks Adamtester (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:19, 31 August 2011 (UTC).


 * Yes, and it doesn't even have to be the same IP. However, the IP address will still be in the page history. If you want the IP address to be secret then see Requests for oversight. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:29, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Cleaning Up Audio Files?
Over the course of my long history of Wikipedia browsing, I've encountered many audio files (mainly pronunciations) that have distracting hiss or buzz. For an example, listen to the audio file for pronunciation in the "Benghazi" article. I'm an audio professional, and I would like to contribute to Wikipedia by using some of my noise reduction editing techniques to clean up these audio files when I come across them, and then re-uploading the improved files. How do I upload audio files to Wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ellishawes (talk • contribs) 05:51, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the offer! Here's how to do it: the audio link near the top of the Benghazi article takes you to File:Ar-Banghazi.ogg. There you will see the message "This is a file from Wikimedia Commons" and a clickable link to the information page on commons, which is commons:File:Ar-Banghazi.ogg. On the commons page there is an icon at the top where you can download the file, and a text link near the bottom labelled "Upload a new version of this file". Feel free to ask again if you get stuck; you may find parts of the page Creation and usage of media files helpful. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:27, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Doppelgangers
Is it true that on average there are 5 people in the world who look identical to you? --112.213.141.177 (talk) 09:42, 31 August 2011 (UTC) oops meant to post this on the reference desk. --112.213.141.177 (talk) 09:43, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This question has been cross posted to WP:RD/M. Any responses should be posted there.  Dismas |(talk) 09:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Withdraw nomination from RFD
Is it possible for the nominator to withdraw a nomination from WP:RFD? Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 11:48, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * See WP:WITHDRAWN. If there is already somebody not saying keep then the nominator should not close the discussion but may strike their original argument like this and write something like "I withdraw the nomination" or "I no longer support deletion". PrimeHunter (talk) 12:52, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 13:18, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Case-sensitive on 1st letter in WP?
Is there a way to make articles case-sensitive on the first letter?

Currently, there are several cases where that could be useful: -

"Gay" takes you the article about the word "gay". If the G is capital, it could take the user to the Gay (disambig) page, as (s)he is probably looking for a person whose first/middle name is Gay (like Enola Gay or the namesake B-29 bomber), or whose last name is Gay or Gaye (like Marvin Gaye, a singer).

"IPhone": a communications device which was NOT made by Apple (which would be another example).

"Shell" could take the user to the article about the company. Users looking for info about artilery shells aren't likely to capitalize the S.

"Centurion", "Lancer" , "Paladin" , "Warrior" etc: these are nicknames of modern military units. Again, I cannot imagine users in search of info about ancient centurions capitalizing the C. 217.251.167.21 (talk) 12:02, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your suggestion. The first letter cannot be case-sensitive in the English Wikipedia. It would both have advantages and disadvantages. Internal wikilinks like gay and Gay (written  and   to make the links) work similar to the search box and automatically go to the same article now. Gay may for example be capitalized because it starts a sentence or is in a list where all words are capitalized. External sites may expect that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay links to the word. People may write IPhone or Iphone when they search for the Apple device. People may copy-paste a search term from a place where it was capitalized. Wiktionary, another site run by the same organization with the same software, has chosen configuration settings to be case sensitive on the first letter: gay and Gay are different. But Wiktionary is a dictionary and Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It's common to capitalize the first letter in entries of encyclopedias. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:44, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Question about newspaper "Archive" citations
A number of my citations come from the Austin American-Statesman's paid "Archive" section (they move articles more than a year old to their paid-access archive). In other words, you have to have a valid paid account to get full text of the article and the orginal url. If I cite these paid articles they use a huge, long, multi-line url which includes my username and password, which is obviously not appropriate. I'm currently just using  "url=statesman.com (Archives)" notation. But no one can get to the specific article even if I have the url, unless the the reader has a paid archive account. However, at least I am providing the article title, author, newspaper, and publication date etc in the citation. Two questions: 1) Is there a place I can store a full article on Wikipedia and refer to it there?  2) Or what is the proper form for such a difficult and perplexing citation?  Austex •  Talk  14:30, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) No. Aside from the fact that we're not an ISP, it would be a total copyright violation. 2) I'd say just list the actual newspaper article and abandon the weblink part. There is never any obligation to provide a weblink in order to offer a citation. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  15:03, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

How known are Hamburg?
I am writing in the article Steinway & Sons and I have a question. I know that when you in an article mention a big city like for example New York City, you should not write the country/state after the name of the city, because almost everyone know in what country/state the city is: My question is about Hamburg. Does everyone know in what country Hamburg is? What should I write?: --Peoplefromarizona (talk) 15:20, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Do not write: "New York City, the United States"
 * Do write: "New York City"
 * "Hamburg, Germany"
 * "Hamburg"


 * I guess you are referring to the sentence "The company's growth led to the opening of a factory and company town in what is now the Astoria section of Queens in New York City and the opening of a factory in Hamburg, Germany." I think it should be sufficient to have a wikilink to Hamburg there. The German city is the main topic of this term and whoever isn't sure can click on the wikilink. I doubt the majority of readers will assume this is referring to one of the US cities mentioned at Hamburg (disambiguation), so I think this should make sense for the majority of readers. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 17:35, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Security alert on a page
Hi,

I get a security alert when trying to open the following page: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_(automobile). There is no such security alert for the English version of the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_Company 198.103.223.52 (talk) 15:32, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

download pages WITHOUT using webcrawlers
hi, i have a question, is possible to get some pages from wikipedia in one compressed file instead of downloading using a webcrawler?(because the rules) like a service?

190.42.113.157 (talk) 15:58, 31 August 2011 (UTC)9912190.42.113.157 (talk) 15:58, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The Wikipedia book creator tool (see also Help:Books) will download a set of pages as a single PDF or Open Office format file. It might be useful.  If nothing else will do, you can also download the entire Wikipedia - see Database download. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:23, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

new article saved - yet not visible to all
Please help me. I want to put my contribution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Boe_Fontaine/Council_of_Bars_and_Law_Societies_of_Europe online for everyone to see, but keep getting a message that I can't. Why? What is the problem? Note that the article is ready, and corresponds to the English version of articles already on wikipedia in French and in Spanish. Apparently the problem is provoked by the fact that, mistakenly, I used an inappropriate username ("CCBEinfo") to propose it initially, and it was deleted or blocked. The article however is not advertising and serves a genuine role of information to readers who find mentions of the CCBE on wikipedia... Please advise on how to move forward. I am lost in the wikipedia tutorials... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boe Fontaine (talk • contribs) 16:03, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Apart from anything else, you'll need some secondary sources. Please read the links provided.  If there are specific things in the tutorials that you don't understand, please ask.  An article's existence in French and Spanish Wikipedias doesn't necessarily mean that it suitable for here;  we each have our own rules. - David Biddulph (talk) 16:52, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * And please also read WP:ORG and WP:BFAQ. – ukexpat (talk) 17:19, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Internal link help
Hi, I just tried to edit the page for Lance Barksdale, an MLB umpire, to refine an internal link for Adrian Johnson (umpire), a member of Barksdale's crew. In the infobox for umpires, however, it redirects to the page of another Adrian Johnson. I tried to type in Adrian Johnson, but the brackets showed up when I clicked save. Is there a way to redirect to the correct Adrian Johnson without having the brackets or "(umpire)" show up? Thanks. Delaywaves  talk  16:18, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * wraps input in, so you would need to modify the template to fix this. You could either pass a fully wikified link into the template or add parameters for piped text. — Bility (talk) 16:45, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This also works, but is likely to confuse people who are editing the page. — Bility (talk) 16:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That second method looks good. Thanks. Delaywaves   talk  18:56, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Old closed AFD's for books
I need to find closed AFDs for books, to see if their having been best sellers, as on the New York Times bestseller list, was considered in the debates to be evidence of notability or if best seller status or number of copies sold was considered irrelevant as the essay Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions might be understood to say. I recall AFDs in which even the number of libraries holding a book was taen as evidence of notability, and where best seller status was asserted as evidence of notability. I do not see mention of "best seller" at Notability (books), although Articles for deletion/Common outcomes (an empirical observation rather than a guideline) says "Books are notable (and thus kept) if well-known, and should be listed under the author if not." I see no way to search AFD archives for discussions about fiction. Thanks. Edison (talk) 16:57, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Resolved: found WikiProject Deletion sorting/Literature/archive. Edison (talk) 17:03, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

TurboCAD 16 Deluxe 2D/3D Tool Symbels
Hi,im albert.I bought the turbocad 16 deluxe 2D/3D,and i can not get the axsion to put a hole in the wall,so i can put a window,or door into it.What i see is,the tool symbels are not hilighted.HOW do i get it to work.Pleace,i need help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.146.200.18 (talk) 17:11, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * [[Image:P computing.svg|20px]] This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Computing reference desk. They specialize in answering computer questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link and ask away. You could always try  for an article related to the topic you want to know more about.  I hope this helps.

A style question
Which is proper style: "mid 1914" and "mid 1950s"; or "mid-1914" and "mid-1950s"? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 17:16, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * When I was at school "several" years ago, the latter was correct form, but with the general falling-out-of-use of the hyphen, I suspect that the former is becoming more common. – ukexpat (talk) 17:24, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Is there a preference in Wikipedia? I couldn't find anything about it in the Manual of Style.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 23:07, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * A more suitable page on which to ask your question is Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style, and a more informative heading is “Hyphens with years”. (If I see an uninformative heading in my watchlist, I might skip over it without clicking.)
 * —Wavelength (talk) 00:18, 1 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I thought that the discussion page was for discussing changes to the article, not asking a question (Talk page guidelines). Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 01:31, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Two versions of "Medical University of the Americas – Nevis" depending on URL syntax; can this be fixed?
I recently made edits to Medical University of the Americas – Nevis. I must've done something wrong because now both the current and old versions are both accessible depending on the URL syntax:
 * Current version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_University_of_the_Americas_%E2%80%93_Nevis
 * Old version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_University_of_the_Americas_-_Nevis

At first I thought it might be my browser cache storing the old page, but I tried multiple browsers and had the same problem. The problem only seems to happen when I am not logged in to Wikipedia though. When I try viewing the source of the old version page, it shows the source from the current version. Anyone know how I can fix this? Thanks. aqwfyj (talk) 18:52, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * When I look at those pages, the former is a redirect to the latter. Bypassing your cache may fix your problem. – ukexpat (talk) 19:08, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Ahh haha thanks, it was indeed a caching issue. I feel dumb now. aqwfyj (talk) 19:11, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Nederland does not appear on startpage
I have bookmarked Wikipedia in Firefox. On your startpage I get the globe plus the usual choices for the separate language editions, but recently 'Nederland' has disappeared ! Weird ! What might be the cause, and the remedy? 83.163.164.16 (talk) 18:52, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It's there for me. Try clearing your broswer cache. - David Biddulph (talk) 18:57, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Jayalaithaa
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J._Jayalalithaa&action=historysubmit&diff=447700445&oldid=447699513 Help needed in incorporating the facts present in my version and to stop monopoly of certain users (names can be seen in history page).

May be if needed more references can be found by other users in near future, but why to remove facts ? Justice needs to be done to acting career of this lady.Wiki article is just ignoring her acting career comopletely. My version covers them well.Typekept (talk) 19:04, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * See Sockpuppet_investigations/Shrik88music. The user is currently canvassing umpteen talk pages about this, which fits the pattern. I hear some loud quacking unfortunately. - Sitush (talk) 19:08, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * A report to WP:ANI may result in quick duck-blocking... – ukexpat (talk) 19:09, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Olympus camera category subcategorisation
The category Category:Olympus cameras has a subcategory Category:Olympus DSLR cameras. This subcategory only includes one product line: the E series. Now Olympus has two other "professional camera" product lines, which feature interchangeable lenses: the Olympus OM system (discontinued) and the Olympus Pen. Both of these seem to be system cameras intended for hobbyists and professionals rather than casual users, but the problem is in the naming. Neither can go to the category DSLR cameras, because the OM system isn't "D", being film cameras, and the Pen system isn't "SLR", lacking an optical viewfinder. If the category was called "Olympus system cameras" (which it would be were this the Finnish Wikipedia) then I would have no problem with placing the articles in the subcategory. So what should be done here? J I P &#124; Talk 19:24, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I am not familiar with these camera lines, but if a model does not fit into one of the more specific categories, would create a new category called Category:Olympus camera series or Category:Olympus camera lines and place those cameras there. The more specific categories like Category:Olympus DSLR cameras could be made subcategories of this new category (see also Wikipedia:Subcategorization). Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 11:47, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Is this photo really allowed?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kukla_fran_ollie.JPG

"Publicity Photos (star headshots) older publicity stills have usually not been copyrighted and since they have been disseminated to the public, they are generally considered public domain and therefore there is no necessity to clear them with the studio that produced them (if you can even determine who did)."

If so, I have many better photos of the show that I could post, but I've had similar photos deleted in the past.

Grateful for any help!

Mark — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marknyc (talk • contribs) 21:10, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It seems no one has leaped to respond to this. I would only be able to give an inexperienced opinion. If no one else chimes in I would suggest asking at Media copyright questions.  Я ehevkor ✉  12:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Disruptive behaviour again?
I need some help about understanding the Template:Infobox company. The template is used in the article Steinway & Sons. Steinway & Sons is a privately held company owned by Steinway Musical Instruments, Inc.

The user has changed "Private" to "Subsidiary" in the infobox of the article Steinway & Sons

The page Template:Infobox company gives this explanation of what to write in the field "Type":

"type

Type of company, Public, Private, Joint Venture or similar. (See ownership to list ownership percentages for private companies and joint ventures, if applicable.)

Example: Public

Example: Private (subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway) "

I added a link to the page Template:Infobox company in the field for summery when I wrote "Private" in the infobox.

It gives no meaning to write "Type: Subsidiary" in the infobox, because "Parent: Steinway Musical Instruments, Inc." is already written in the infobox. If Steinway & Sons has a parent company, it means that Steinway & Sons of course is a subsidiary. Therefore it gives no meaning that User:Binksternet insist on writing "Type: Subsidiary". Instead it would be better to write "Private", because then a reader can see in the infobox 1) that Steinway & Sons has a parent company named Steinway Musical Instruments, Inc. (and therefore of course is a subsidiary) and 2) that Steinway & Sons is a privately held company. Furthermore, the Template:Infobox company gives examples of what to write in the field "Type" in the infobox, making the page Template:Infobox company supporting my version and not User:Binksternet's version. --Peoplefromarizona (talk) 22:44, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Have you tried carrying on a deeper conversation with Binksternet before accusing him of disruption? You are assuming he is being disruptive, but that doesn't jive with one of Wikipedia's core rules, assume good faith.   I see no evidence he is being disruptive.  Instead, why not try to meet him as an equal and discuss the matter back and forth like adults until you reach an agreeable resolution?  -- Jayron  32  01:02, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Peoplefromarizona has been indefinitely blocked as a sockpuppet.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:12, 1 September 2011 (UTC)