Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 June 25

= June 25 =

Wikipedia "puzzle ball" ?
Hi there. Part of your logo consists of a partially assembled "puzzle ball". Do they really exist and if so, how may I obtain one? thank you very much, Dave in California — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.66.193.74 (talk) 01:58, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * While the help desk is supposed to be specifically for problems related to Wikipedia, I did find an answer to your question. I did a google shopping search for Jigsaw puzzle balls.  Hopefully you find this useful. Ryan Vesey (talk) 02:09, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If you are asking specifically about the Wikipedia logo, then some were made in 2007, but I have no idea how you could get hold of one. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:46, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * While Wikipedia is an encyclopedia based on helping its fellow users and Wikipedians, this is not the right place to ask that. I believe the correct place is the village pump. This is not a warning for blocking, this is just a reminder to not only you, but all people to find the right source of help the next time around. Also remember to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). Thanks! Sent from a laptop. A comment by a person who has been editing Wikipedia since October 28, 2010. (talk) 04:43, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Guidelines re verifiability of the content of quotations?
Are there guidelines (either for articles in general or for information about living persons) that address the situation: Or in other words, while the verifiability policy clearly applies to quotations, to what extent does it or other guidelines address the content of quotations? I have had a look around but haven't found anything. Thanks. Nurg (talk) 02:07, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) It is verifiably true that So-and-so said "Such-and-such".
 * 2) Such-and-such itself is not verifiably true, or may even be false.
 * This one is a puzzler. One thing that I can think of is that something must be verified by a reliable third party source.  Assuming that "such-and-such" is false, it would be probable that the source is not reliable. It also seems like WP:FRINGE may apply.  Still, be careful that you are maintaining a neutral point of view and are not deciding whether a source is reliable enough on your own. Ryan Vesey (talk) 02:14, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You must be able to verify the first part. The next step is to establish why the fact that So-and-so said "Such-and-such" is genuinely encyclopedic content, especially under the higher standards which apply to biographies of living people. If Jane Scriptgirl blogged that reactionary talk show host Benn Gleck is actually a homosexual communist double agent, that's merely libel and has no place in the article about Benn Gleck, no matter how titillating the tabloids may find it. If Joan Trophywife, the former Mrs. Benn Gleck, made the same accusation in testimony before Congress, that might be notable (if only because such testimony is under oath). We leave the readers to decide for themselves as to the reliability of Joan's testimony and Benn's denials. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  02:21, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys. I'm not concerned about the issue of reliability of sources. Here's a made-up scenario. A notable riot occurred and a reliable source quotes Paul Prominent as saying "Colin Controversial incited the riot". There is no doubt that Paul made the statement about Colin. However no reliable source says that Colin actually incited the riot - and he may or may not have done so. If Colin did, no real harm is done by Wikipedia reporting that Paul said what he said. If Colin did not incite the riot (which we are not sure about), it may be considered a slur, no matter that Paul genuinely said it. I thought there might be guidelines about this, because it is easy to use a genuine quotation to slip in statements that would not stand if made outside a quotation. Nurg (talk) 03:40, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, your question is difficult. This seems like a talk page discussion that would last for a long time.  My personal opinion, and I hope it reflects wikipedia policy, would be to include the information in a way that did not make it appear to be a fact.  I.e. "One possible explanation for the riot was offered by Paul Prominent who stated that 'Colin Controversial threw a rock through the window of a police car'" Ryan Vesey (talk) 03:52, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ryan. I have refined the wording of my query and asked it at Wikipedia talk:Verifiability Nurg (talk) 06:45, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Table sorting by surname
I'm trying to make the table on List of winners of the Mathcounts competition sortable by individual winner surname; it currently sorts by given name. The contents of that column of the table should remain the same, but the order in which the table sorts should be different. I have reviewed Help:Sorting, but have been unable to figure out how to make the appropriate alterations. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Neelix (talk) 03:56, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't find any options that would allow the table to remain the way it is. I think you could either list the winners with a Last Name, First Name format, or use the separate tables for surname and given name format.  What does WP:MOS say about sorting by Last Name, First Name? Ryan Vesey (talk) 04:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you could do this with the template. For example, if the first name becomes   then it will sort as "Edwards". It does mean duplicating all the names, though, which might make it harder to maintain.
 * An alternative would be to move the state name, Texas in this case, to a new column, leaving only the person's first and last names in the "Individual winner" column, and then use the template to get the names to sort by surname. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:00, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestions! The template works great; the benefit of being able to sort by surname outweighs the complication in maintenance. Now on to fix the link rot! Neelix (talk) 14:39, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

When creating sortable tables, there can be issues with how a column sorts. See Help:Sorting for a complete overview.


 * Columns that mix alpha and numerical data will sort alphabetically— this can be resolved by using nts.
 * When using general text with and without wikilinks, use sort.
 * To sort dates, use dts.
 * For sorting names in the format last, first use sortname. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 19:26, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Uploading an image under Creative Commons non-commercial license
I want to upload an image from a source that has given permission, but under the Creative Commons non-commercial license terms. That is not one of the choices under the upload page.

Is it not allowed?

Thanks, Ellis408 (talk) 04:00, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you trying to upload on Wikimedia Commons? Only free-use images can be uploaded on Wikimedia Commons.  If it is a non-free/fair use image, you must upload on Wikipedia. Ryan Vesey (talk) 04:03, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

That helps - thanks Ellis408 (talk) 04:05, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Even on Wikipedia a Creative Commons non-commercial license is not one of the choices on the upload page. Wikipedia does not accept any non-free license. When you upload a non-free file, you select a non-free category rather than a license. And non-free files can be uploaded and used only under the highly restrictive non-free content policy. —teb728 t c 04:39, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Wikilinks to disambiguation pages
I have noticed some inappropriate links to disambiguation pages in place of a specific article. I.e. Clerk of the House links to a disambiguation page but in an article it should usually be more specific and link to a specific house. Is there a way for me to use a bot, or do a search to find Wikilinks that link to disambiguation pages so I can correct them? Ryan Vesey (talk) 04:23, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I know that there is a tool you can use, although I'm not quite sure where it is or what it's called .  Sumsum2010 · T · C  04:40, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Found it! It's called Dab solver and is located here:http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/view/Dab_solver  Sumsum2010 · T · C  04:41, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Perfect, thanks! Ryan Vesey (talk) 19:06, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Anonymus IP constantly undoing my edits
User 85.27.35.54 is constantly reverting my edits on article about Gregorij Rožman and he doesn't offer any explanation. Can someone block him? Tadej5553 (talk) 09:52, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think you should be deleting an established fact like with this edit. So anon appears to be correct in reverting although should have given reasons. Nasnema   Chat  10:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

It's a bit more complicated here then it seem at firs sight... During the war in Yugolsavia (1941-1945) there were occupation authorities (first Italians, then Germans) in province of Ljubljana and they were censoring and even heavily modifying every letter, speech, announcement etc. intended for public release. And that pastoral letter counts as one of them. Tamara Griesse Pečar, who has done the most detailed study to date about mid-war activities of Gregorij Rožman, explains and confirms this with many examples (one of them is the his greeting to Grazzioli, which was, as she says, altered by the Italians so much that it wans't recognizable anymore). And this pattern appeared in all the newspapers, radio broadcasts etc.: they were all writing pro-nazi propaganda, and that was in sharp contrast to their beliefs and their pre-war writings. This is why you can't use Rožman's mid-war letters intended for public release for judging his beliefs (anon could use his private letters, but he doesn't ;) ). And this is why IP won't debate. He knows that he is merely repeating the smear campaign and propaganda used by the communist... Tadej5553 (talk) 10:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Just wondering, how do you know why IP won't debate? Have they told you why?  Or is it your opinion that is why they won't debate?  Same question as far as the IP knows he is merely repeating the smear campaign, how do you know they know this?  GB fan (talk) 10:39, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * It takes two for a debate. Neither of you has touched Talk:Gregorij Rožman. Neither of you has touched the other's user talk page. You're both just edit warring on the article. —teb728 t c 10:58, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I left WP:3RR warnings on both your talk pages. —teb728 t c 11:07, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Fine, I'll start a debate, no need for the warning BTW... Oh, and for the communist smear camping: I live in Slovenia, i know what it's like. It's pretty much like this articel: they say he held masses for Italians (no explanation why), met with occupation authorities (agani, no explanation), they quote altered version of his letters to authorities and accuse him of beliefs that he never had (like anti-semitism, for example...) Tadej5553 (talk) 11:09, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Tadej5553, please do not start an edit war. Those are feared by Wikipedians more than other users think they are. I totally understand the situation, however, starting an edit war with the IP address will get you blocked. Just keep your cool with the person, and calmly explain to him/her to stop reverting your edits. If you find there is no possible way to do so, you are always free and invited to take a Wikibreak. Anyway, one of the worst things to do is to start an edit war. It is unconstructive and potentially destructive to Wikipedia and is equivalent to public disturbance or nuisance to fellow Wikipedians. Also, I will give the IP address a warning. Thank you very much for reporting this situation to us. A comment by a person who has been editing Wikipedia since October 28, 2010. (talk) 04:59, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry, i'm not going to start an edit war, I see no sense in it. The situation was resolved rather quickly: the anonymus bias-troll gave up, he (in my opinion) showed no knowledge on the subject and constantly relied on a book he hasn't seen in his life. Thanks for your support anyway Tadej5553 (talk) 15:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * You're absolutely welcome. In any case, my above comment is also a reminder to other users that they must not start edit wars, or they will consequently get blocked or banned. Thank you for reporting this. A comment by a person who has been editing Wikipedia since October 28, 2010. (talk) 21:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

A comment by a person who has been editing Wikipedia since October 28, 2010. (talk) 22:24, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Back in Black's cover
Could you transfer File:BackinBlackSingle.jpg on Commons? It should be in the public domain.--80.183.66.87 (talk) 13:37, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The file cannot be uploaded to Commons because it is currently used here under a claim of fair use. I don't see how it can be public domain, but you could perhaps ask the experts at Media copyright questions. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:38, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the argument would be that it is too simple a design to qualify for copyright protection and that it should be PD-text. – ukexpat (talk) 12:54, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Request
User: Foodie 377 has been doing irrational editing/reverting in Template:Caste Groups of India (Kamma). Even after providing citations that were required, the revert game is going on. I tried to convince the person on talk page but in vain. He was warned and blocked for 24 hours. He is now back to his game. Please block the person indefinitely.Kumarrao (talk) 14:08, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Please take this to WP:ANI. Dismas |(talk) 14:25, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This appears to have been resolved on Toddst1's talk page, where you posted this request previously. — Tommyjb  ( talk )  15:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

8 resources not enough to save Pete Davis from Deletion?
I have done everything I can and am starting to feel like someone is messing with me. I have resourced and re-resourced my article and someone keeps coming by (this time after weeks of inactivity) to say that my post on the man I work for, and have been charged with creating, is invalid in some way. I just need to know what EXACTLY I need to do to make [Pete Davis]'s page safe from deletion — Preceding unsigned comment added by DustyDionne (talk • contribs)
 * Is this the article that you are referring to: Peter Davis (theater historian)? - If not, please include a link to the article that you are talking about. Thanks, Darigan (talk) 15:21, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * My bad on above comment, it seems that the article Pete Davis has already been deleted. Wikipedians have placed some useful advice on your talk page. I would suggest reading some of the linked information in the top-most post on your talk page, and, if you believe that Pete Davis meets notability guidelines etc., then try creating an article as a userspace draft and request feedback on the draft version.


 * Also, given that you have said that the article subject is your boss, you may want to read up on Conflict of interest. Darigan (talk) 15:31, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reporting this to us. We will investigate on this situation. Also, remember to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ) Thanks! A comment by a person who has been editing Wikipedia since October 28, 2010. (talk) 05:03, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Byron White
I don't know how to fix this. The user effectively renamed the Byron White article to Whizzer White (Whizzer was a nickname). It should be put back the way it was. I assume the redirect has to be deleted (speedy delete?). Not sure.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:49, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I have moved it back per Naming conventions (people). Moving over redirects with only one line in its history doesn't require deletion of previous pages. See WP:MOR.--  Obsidi ♠ nSoul  16:57, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I read the policy, but it's not clear to me what the procedure is for doing it.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Fuji Bank old account enquiry
Dear How can I get my money from Fuji bank kokura kita-kushu-shi, Japan where I last diposited some money when I was working in Kokura in 1994 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.245.39.238 (talk) 17:32, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 3.6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. doom gaze   (talk)  18:20, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Poorly referenced section of article - what is the correct template
Hi, in this particular case, I'm looking at West_Ham_United_F.C., which has some references, but by no means enough references to support all of the assertions made. I am confident that most of the assertions are accurate (to a greater or lesser extent) and as such do not want to delete swathes of the section due to lack of references, but I would like to place a notice saying that the particular section is poorly referenced, and needs more sources - Does anybody know what template I can put at the top of that section? Any help on this issue will add to my repertoire of templates which I can re-use elsewhere when appropriate. Cheers, Darigan (talk) 18:14, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * /edit/ I am aware of the citation needed template for individual assertions, for clarity, my query is about requesting extra references for an entire section rather than an individual assertion. All responses appreciated. Darigan (talk) 18:17, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Is this good? Refimprove - frankie (talk) 18:24, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Refimprove works but is specific to an entire article. To target just a section there's Unreferenced section and Refimprove section. See also Template messages/Sources of articles.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:29, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback Frankie & Fuhghettaboutit - I think in this instance, the advice offered by Fuhghettaboutit about the Refimprove section was the most suitable - I have applied it to the section of the article that I mentioned. Cheers, Darigan (talk) 18:44, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You're welcome.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:20, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia hangs with my Chrome
When I surf through articles, at one point of time, it loads a page seemingly endless, and the browser doesn't respond anymore. This happens very often, but only with Chrome? Is this a known issue? --Malaikaran (talk) 18:32, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I haven't heard about it. I occasionally use Chrome and have no problems. Try to clear the entire cache in Chrome. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:43, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * As expected below, it did't solve the problem.--Malaikaran (talk) 18:21, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try.--Malaikaran (talk) 18:54, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: I'm using Chrome as I type, and am not experiencing the issue you describe. Please let me/us know if clearing your cache solves the problem or not. Cheers, Darigan (talk) 18:58, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Not sure how well that will do. Usually when it happens with mine, I can't do anything until google chrome offers to kill the pages, or I restart.  I hate this, because Chrome is the only web browser I like. Ryan Vesey (talk) 18:59, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I also experience the same issue with chrome & Wikipedia, it tends to be when I have a largish number of Wikipedia tabs open. Quasi  human  &#124;  Talk  19:03, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Then I'm not the only one. I expect, that clearing the cache won't solve the problem. Could someone meanwhile forward the issue to a technician?--Malaikaran (talk) 19:08, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The worst is when I am in the middle of a long edit. I lose it some of the time, but occasionally if I open up my recent tabs it will still be there with all of the content of my edit. Ryan Vesey (talk) 20:05, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This issue happens for me on a semi-regular basis for me as well, in Chrome. It makes it impossible to navigate on any Wikipedia tabs, even after the never-loading tab is shut.  However, if I close all of my Wikipedia tabs, any other tabs that I may have open work just fine. Buddy432 (talk) 04:27, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Another issue involving Chrome seems to be the neverending scrollbar. It lets me scroll down to infinity with zero content. This depends on the scrollbar's "mood".--Malaikaran (talk) 19:19, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought at one point it may be related to the custom javascript I have attached to my Wikipedia Skin, so I changed my skin to one without any custom javascripts and it still occurs. Bizzare. I am back to using firefox when using wiki. Tiggerjay (talk) 02:49, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I noticed the scrollbar issue is a general chrome problem. Had it at google.com again.--Malaikaran (talk) 21:53, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

changing username
I wish to change my username. I am only editing a pre-existing page, not adding new ones.

How do I go about changing the username of my account?

Edit 21:38, 25 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RachelPaine (talk • contribs)
 * It isn't usual to bother when you have less than a 100 edits or so. With only six, it would be easier to simply abandon this account and create a new one.-- SPhilbrick  T  21:42, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello. Please see Username policy.  — Tommyjb  ( talk )  21:45, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Toggling images
I'm attempting to toggle an image through various states using buttons on the side? Is there any way to do this?

For example: Lv1 Lv2 Lv3 Lv4 I want one image to show at first (Lv1), and then when I click the button for Lv2, it overlays over Lv1 (Hide Lv1, show Lv2), and etc for each button, hiding the others, showing itself. Pyrofyr (talk) 21:38, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not clear as to what you're referring to. Are you looking for this within a Wikipedia article, or website design in general? Thanks Tiggerjay (talk) 02:44, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Within a wikipedia article 99.120.19.221 (talk) 02:55, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't recall seeing an effect like that in a Wikipedia article, but there is a small chance I may have seen something like that and forgotten about it. What article do you have in mind, and what are the images you want to display? Another option is to animate an image in Wikipedia so it scrolls automatically through a series of separate images. See Commons:Category:Animations. Also note that you apparently tried to display a stack of text like this:

Lv1 Lv2 Lv3 Lv4
 * but your attempt did not work because you did not use one of the formatting methods in Help:Wiki markup, or a table. You can also make fancy button-like things with the Key press template:

Lv1 Lv2 Lv3 Lv4
 * but clicking them does not do anything. Doing that would be harder. Finally, note that the Manual of Style kind of throws a wet blanket on our flights of page design fancy, at least when we edit articles. Most of the crazy design examples are in user pages. See User page design center. --Teratornis (talk) 07:20, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Scroll gallery does not work at the English Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:34, 26 June 2011 (UTC)