Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 March 9

= March 9 =

Combining notes like combining refs
Can someone take a look at U.S. state reptiles the Notes 1 and 3 are the same thing. Various editors have desired to combine them in a way you can give a reference a name and re-use it, however it seems we can't work out how to do the same thing with a note. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:37, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * . Gold Hat (talk) 02:12, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Regards, SunCreator (talk) 02:28, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

mobile wiki NOT working
It is not just the iPhone that is bot redirecting to the mobile site. My Droid Incredible just started doing thiie same thing. I dint change or disable the mobile. I made sure I checked that out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.252.160.63 (talk) 04:15, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * http://en.m.wikipedia.org/ took a little while to load, but on my PC it loaded WhisperToMe (talk) 00:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

How to upload an image to a draft user article
Hello Wiki team,

I've created an article for review at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Itkidontheblock/THBS and would like to include the image File:TorryHarris_full_logo.jpg into the same. The image has been marked as an orphan and for speedy deletion. Can you please let me know how I can associate the image with the user article. Once the user article has been approved by the wiki members, I would like the image File:TorryHarris_full_logo.jpg to be associated with it. Thanks for all the help!

Kind regards, Itkidontheblock (talk) 05:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I have edited the Article parameter to get rid of some error messages at File:TorryHarris full logo.jpg. The image can be displayed if and only if your userspace page is moved to article space. See User pages. If the image has been deleted by that time then just reupload it. A reviewer of User:Itkidontheblock/THBS doesn't have to see the image, but the infobox has a link to it. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Article not viewed on search in google or wiki.
I Have written an article on Wiki, V. N. Reddy (Director of Photography / Cinematographer), but it does not show on google search. I completed the article and it is there in the move logs. How can I make it viewable to everyone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandhya.palanki (talk • contribs) 05:36, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It takes some time (maybe a day) for both Wikipedia's search function and Google to index new articles. It happens automatically so just wait. V. N. Reddy (Director of Photography / Cinematographer) is not well named and will probably be moved again if it's kept in the encyclopedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:41, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, the links to other articles are misformatted. See Help:Link. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:48, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Redirect to mobile page not working
On iPhone running iOS 4.2 redirect to the mobile version of pages is not working. The link from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Enable_mobile_version does not help and even that goes to the regular home page not the mobile version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.30.38 (talk) 07:10, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * This has been reported several times and has now been raised at the Technical Village Pump. – ukexpat (talk) 17:37, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

ask question
ask question —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.124.48.35 (talk) 08:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ...get answer -- John of Reading (talk) 08:52, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Implications of 'Citation needed'
Hello,

Having a browse thought the page for Moran_family, and in the section for Judy Moran we have the line, "Lewis is the father of her son Jason Moran". My first reaction is that adding the fact tag to what is a relatively expected fact gives strong implications about the woman herself - are there any wikipedia guidelines on this issue? one could give a lot of quite reasonable statements a very odd slant by adding the tag. For example "Tony_blair sleeps in a perfectly normal bed". Failedwizard (talk) 09:56, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I dont think you can read any more into it than a user has questioned if the fact is true. The tag is an element of doubt if they thought it was clearly wrong it would have been deleted straight away but the user adding the tag was just looking for some reliable evidence that it is true. This gives other editors time to find the references if they exist. In this case the tag has been on since July 2009 and any editor could probably remove the sentence as unreferenced for so long. I am sure if somebody added a fact tag to a obvious statement the tag would have been removed before now. MilborneOne (talk) 10:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I removed the sentence. As for when not to use the fact template, see when not to use this template. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 12:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for you help :) Failedwizard (talk) 13:21, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Unsigned? (possible bot bug / hiccup)

 * I added a minor update to one of my posts here (Help Desk, topic "Question about signatures", 03-03-11) and signed with 5~ to add a timestamp rather than my full signature. That edit was classified as "unsigned" although I did sign it. Is that a bug in Sinebot or is it expected to work that way, ie. to reject timestamp-only signatures?
 * Just found something else. A topic above, "Please restore my page.", 03-08-11, contains a (suspected) botted line "Preceding unsigned comment..." and then it goes whack. A [details removed] bracket appears where the user name/IP is expected to be. Is that another hiccup, or did an editor redact Sinebot in an attempt to remain anonymous? (Which doesn't work BTW)
 * I hope you can backtrack what I mean, and enjoy the refreshing change from all the incompatible-mobile-phone-surfers complaining all day long. ;-) - (User.0.0.0.1) 13:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * A signature must contain a link to you user page or talk page, the five tildes stamp is not a signature but, as you pointed out, a time stamp. You should sign with four tildes. The "details removed" tag was to suppress a user's IP address, not sure why exactly. Rehevkor ✉  13:19, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * (e/c) I am not sure about the first comment, but the 2nd comment was an intentional removal by another editor. It was done here with an edit summary "Removed IP address so fewer revisions need revdel if requested)".   GB  fan  13:21, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * (ec x2) This doesn't contain a user name/IP link, therefore "doesn't count as a signature" as far as the bot is concerned. C T J F 8 3  13:22, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * (e/c)The "details removed" edit was, with the edit summary "Removed IP address so fewer revisions need revdel if requested". I assume that no-one has requested revdel.
 * On your first point, Sinebot seems to have behaved sensibly. It saw that there was a date & time but not a user name, so it added the latter without having duplicated the date-time. - David Biddulph (talk) 13:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Your section is archived at Help desk/Archives/2011 March 3. SineBot wants a user link per WP:SIG. See User talk:SineBot and User:SineBot. The unsigned post in was made by an IP who mentioned their username. WP:REVDEL (revision deletion) can be requested if your IP address has been revealed, also if it was accidentally by yourself. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:34, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your replies. So a timestamp is generally seen as bad style in that place, ie to timestamp an update of a properly signed edit, rather than signing it again? I'm going to re-sign... ;-) now that I've streamlined my sig a bit.
 * PS I've seen that (e/c) tag before. Please tell me what it is, or where I can read about it. Thanks in advance.
 * PPS The (ecx2) tag is all Greek to me. Haven't seen it once yet. - (User.0.0.0.1) 13:37, 9 March 2011 (UTC) <--just in case.
 * "e/c" is "shorthand for "edit conflict" and I presume "ecx2" refers to a second edit conflict. Roger (talk) 13:41, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * (ec) or similar can be manually added by the editor and refers to Help:Edit conflict. (ecx2) means edit conflict times 2, i.e. they got an edit conflict two times in a row when they tried to save. Adding these ec indicators is optional. I only do it in some cases where I want to point out that my reply was written before seeing a post. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:45, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes...I guess it isn't really important to put the x2 C T J F 8 3  13:46, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * There is an ec template that links that indicates an edit conflict and links to the help page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 16:01, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * That explains why (ec) appears all over the place. Thanks again.
 * I'm afraid someone will have to write a FAQ for noobs to answer all my little questions.
 * Opting out of Sinebot seems too Draconian to me. I'll stay with Sinebot, for I might actually forget to sign once or thrice. I'd like to redact Sinebot (like deleting the words "previous unsigned") but that would probably puzzle another user or two.
 * One more Q: If I have some more questions, is there a tag I can use on my talk page, other than helpme? IMO a helpme implies urgency, and while I have many questions, most of these aren't exactly urgent issues. I'm looking for a "helpmeplease" template which indicates that I'd like to have a volunteer answer my question(s) but that it's not an urgent matter. - (User.0.0.0.1) 09:13, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * There are only and  as far as I know. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:49, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

No adversity in your article about Dr Dean Edell
I find the article about Dr Edell to be heavily one-sided. A shill for the Corporatists comes to mind and I can understand why he retired. He has often hinted at naturopathy, homeopathy, and other complimentary alternative health practitioners as being frauds but me thinks he doth protest too much and has engaged in a heavily weighted form of projection. I strongly recommend that you get a highly regarded MD such as Dr Jonathan Wright, Dr Joe Mercola, or Dr Weil to update this heavily biased Wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.78.209.151 (talk) 13:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This kind of discussion should be taking place on the talk page of the article in question. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  13:40, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * But note that the weight given to material added to Wikipedia is dependent on the authorative nature of the referenced source, not on any authority which may be accorded to the editor who adds it. --ColinFine (talk) 19:07, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Category sort order in Ilinois counties
I am working on creating categories for each county in Illinois like Geography, Buildings and structures, Education, Visitor attractions, etc. When I look at the top county category, like Category:Bureau County, Illinois, the categories are not being listed alphabetically. This is happening for all the counties I have looked at in Illinois. I can't seem to see an ordering level in the categories that would be overriding the sort order. It looks like it may be putting categories that were created before mine ahead of mine, despite the alphabetical order. Is there a way to make it work alphabetically? Thank you. Jllm06 (talk) 15:28, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * A MediaWiki update related to category sorting was applied; a a maintenance script is running to resolve sorting issues. See Village pump (technical). ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 15:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

WP:RS
Hi, could a couple of you guys help clarify if etymonline is a WP:RS source. It seems to me that it was set up by a fellow called Douglas Harper who wrote a couple of books on history and the website maintained by some web master, and supported by advertising. So how does this meet WP:RS, given that it is not verified by a well known publisher etc. and the only person maintaining is Mr Harper. Moreover, given that it is an external link that may go away in 3 days without notice, is this a reliable source? Ideas will be appreciated. History2007 (talk) 16:33, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a sensible question for WP:RSN. - David Biddulph (talk) 16:36, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It's obviously not but I thought etymonline was going offline due to some litigation of some sort. Was I thinking of a different site?  Dismas |(talk) 16:57, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. History2007 (talk) 17:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, it might qualify as an WP:SPS where the author is an established expert who's been previously published in the relevent field by a reliable, third-party publication, but I didn't really look that deeply into it. I'll wait for the RSN thread.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:39, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Article location problem
We recently uploaded a document. The original title was to be "Sleeve Valve". As it turns out this title was already chosen for a completely unrelated product. The title was changed to "Sleeve Valve (Water Type)". Unfortunately, if I type sleeve valve in the search bar and hit enter it automatically goes to the former page. It is unlikely that the new document is likely to be found by people searching for it unless they specifically add (Water Type). As there are a variety of sleeve valves available in the marketplace the article titled simply "sleeve valve" should have to amend the title to be more specific. The best solution is either that or when someone types "sleeve valve" a list of relavent articles comes up rather than a direct link to one page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryanwilliams23 (talk • contribs) 17:03, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It's at Sleeve Valve (Water Type) and I will add a hatnote to Sleeve valve to point to it. By the way, you refer to "we" - is that the "royal we"? If not and you are sharing an account between two or more people, that is not permitted. – ukexpat (talk) 17:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * And the term is not a proper noun, thus should not be capitalized. ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 17:18, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Moved to Sleeve valve (water). – ukexpat (talk) 17:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * after seeing the question on another help page:
 * I've removed an advertising link added by the only contributor to the article, an editor who perhaps hasn't seen WP:COI, but the article does need review and improvement. If it does remain or reappear, the answer would be either a hatnote or a disambigation page. - David Biddulph (talk) 17:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I have cleaned it up further and added a few maintenance templates. – ukexpat (talk) 17:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * No need for a disambig page as there are only two relevant articles. I have added a hatnote to sleeve valve. – ukexpat (talk) 17:34, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk pages in [Help] namespace are not watched by many users. Please consider visiting the Help desk
If you attempt to edit a Talk page in Help namespace, you get this warning:

Attention

Talk pages in this namespace are generally not watched by many users. Please consider visiting the Help desk for a more prompt response or reviewing the Help contents for quick tips. So here I am at the Help Desk, with no further indication of what to do.

So I went ahead and made my edit on Help_talk:Parameter_default anyway (new section Last-but technique broken) but two things ought to be done:

Mathglot (talk) 18:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Update Help Desk to provide a link or section for folks navigating over from Help talk to explain what to do now
 * 2) Update the "not watched" warning to what to do at Help Desk, i.e., provide a link to the new section above.


 * That message will be in the MediaWiki namespace, but I don't have time to track it at the moment. That help page has had only minor updates since 2006, so I don't know how relevant it is. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Blinking signatures
Maybe a really strange question, but I spend quite some time on creating a new signature, and finally it is how I like it. But then I started wondering: is this a blinking signature? I don't really know what is meant with 'blinking'. And if my signature is blinking, how do I adapt it into something more acceptable? Thanks in advance! Ρόμπ (nasıl delirdim?)   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  19:28, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not blinking for me but the light green and yellow are hard to read against the default background in monobook. – ukexpat (talk) 19:53, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines recommend a contrast ratio of at least 5:1 for text – use this Contrast ratio calculator to help determine if the colors you choose will be visible to everyone. Wikipedia's background colour (on the default vector skin) is light blue (#F8FCFF). TN X Man  19:58, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thnx for responding, ukexpat! At least now I know my signature is not blinking. :) (colours might change in the (near) future; it's of later concern) But in general, whát is meant with 'blinking' signatures? :s Ρόμπ  (nasıl delirdim?)   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  20:02, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Signatures that do this . TN X Man  20:07, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Errr... Tnxman, I've tried to use the link you gave, but I'm not really sure at what I'm looking at, and how to use it. :s I do know that the colours I use in my signature are Lime, Gold, Deeppink, and DarkTurquoise. :) Also: thnx a million for explaining what blinking is! :) Ρόμπ  (nasıl delirdim?)   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  20:16, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Robster, just a quick note that you can't transclude User:Robster1983/signature in a signature like that (I've subst'ed it here for you). You need to put the text in the appropriate box in your "My Preferences" page.  See WP:SIG for details on why. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Floquenbeam, what exactly do you mean? I created this new signature with the help of the Dutch wikipedia (see: this), but if there is something wrong, could you please give me some tips about how to change it? Thnx in advance! Ρόμπ  (nasıl delirdim?)   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  20:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't really understand that, but I do see " ". subst allows a template to be substituted instead of transcluded. You have to add "subst:" to your signature in your preferences to ensure that it gets substituted every time rather than transcluded. Reach Out to the Truth 20:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it literally says (which is exactly what I have placed in My preferences -> signature -> new signature). The Dutch wiki said that one has to create a new page (like User:Robster1983/signature), and when that was done, another page was to be created, but this time, the title of the first page was to be written between these brackets "{" & "}", creating a page like this: User:Robster1983/signature2. I tried to create another signature via "nickname" and "raw signature", but ı just couldn't find both words anywhere in "My Preferences". :s   Ρόμπ   ☞Life's short, talk fast ☜  20:51, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Substitution in signatures is "highly discouraged":Substitution of templates in signatures is permissible but highly discouraged, as any such template will typically either violate the reasonable length restriction of 255 characters or will be redundant to using the same content as a raw signature. from WP:SIG. – ukexpat (talk) 20:43, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * You're signing your posts by either typing   in the edit box, or you have that text in the "signatures" box of Special:Preferences.  This is called transclusion.  We don't allow people to transclude their signatures from a signature page, for reasons outlined in WP:SIG.  Instead, while you're playing with your signature, you need to type  { {subst:User:Robster1983/signature}} in the edit box or the signature box.  This is called substitution.  When you've settled on a signature, it's probably cleaner to copy the text of your signature page into the signature box in Special:Preferences.  There are some other suggestions at WP:SIG you might want to consider, including color (suggested), maximum length (required), and not showing your username in the text of the signature (suggested). --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:45, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

İ Think I have typed the correct thing in My preferences -> signature -> new signature (this is what is in that box: . I think that's corect, right? (sorry to bother you all, btw :))  Ρόμπ   ☞Life's short, talk fast ☜  20:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Use:  Robster1983 (talk)  which renders as: Robster1983 (talk) Damned, Gold Hat (talk) 21:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That's a disruptive WP:SIG-vio; far too many characters snotting-up the edit box, cursive typeface, big-elements, inaccessible colours, not related to user name, transclusion, too; it's all attention-seeking and inappropriate.
 * Heeey, I'm trying to do the right thing here. There's no need to be semi-rude. I was just inspired by many of the signatures on wikipedia, some of which can be seen here. I'm not trying to push boundries; I'm trying to follow them!  Ρόμπ   ☞Life's short, talk fast ☜  21:17, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Where was I rude? Your sig is entirely inappropriate, as others have told you. There are many other inappropriate sigs and no one is much dealing with them, either. It's a piece of why this project is failing. Thanks a bunch. Damned, Gold Hat (talk) 22:03, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Not sure what's going wrong, perhaps you need to clear the cache after saving your preferences, but as you can see by looking at the edit window of this page (I'll leave it alone for now), it is still transcluding your signature page. Gold Hat has a point, something I was trying to gently hint at above; really colorful, long signatures that don't include your actual username might be allowed (as long as they're shorter than 255 characters), but some consider them a bit inconsiderate.  Personally, if I were Dictator I'd make everyone sign like Gold Hat is suggesting, but I'm not, so I'll just gently suggest you consider toning it down and shortening it instead. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:22, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The thing is that I am seeking help, and every piece of advice that has been given by all of you, is much appreciated, and I am more than willing to implement it. But I just don't know hów! I'm asking for clarification because I honestly am trying, yet sinking because of all the wiki-terms thrown at me. And wazzup with the 'damned'? Throwing 'damned' at me doesn't make me understand things better, in fact, it only makes me feel rubbish! What about assuming good faith? I'm not trying to piss everyone off! How do others create them creative signatures? Obviously, I am doing something wrong, eventhough I followed every single step that the Dutch wikipedia said. Ρόμπ   ☞Life's short, talk fast ☜  22:47, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The "damned" is part of his signature; he is, I believe, referring to himself as someone who is "damned" (there's a very long story behind that...). As to the rest of your question, give me a minute to type something up. p.s. what browser are you using? (seems like an odd question, but I have a reason for it). --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:51, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The gist of WP:SIG is that it's inappropriate to try and garner undue attention to your post by meretricious means. This is, of course, what all such sigs are seeking. Honestly, there's no added value to the project in any of this; it's just vanity. The only variation that *should* be allowed is making the talk-link optional. I'd be for losing those, too; ever sign a contract with a talk-link? They're signatures; they should be the user name, period. Damned, Gold Hat (talk) 22:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Meh, playing with signatures is a good way to learn about wiki formatting, transclusions, etc. (which is why I'm trying to help create a signature that annoys me a little). Plus, there are dozens of other things destroying Wikipedia faster than fancy signatures. First, copy/paste the following text in the box next to "Signature" in Special:Preferences: Note that once we get this ironed out, you'll want to just paste the contents of that page in your signature box, rather than WP:SUBSTing it) . Now make sure there's a tick mark in the box marked "Treat the above as wiki markup" right below the signature box. Next, hit the "Save" button, and then bypass your browser's cache by doing whatever WP:BYPASS tells you to do for the browser you're using. Finally, go to the WP:SANDBOX and type four tildes: ~ And save the page.  What happens? --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * OMG... I think it worked... Check this: Ρόμπ   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  23:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Good. Now that you've figured out the methodology, you need to play with your signature to shorten it considerably.  The maximum allowable signature is 255 characters, my rough approximation is you've got more than 320 characters.  Please work that down to less than 255 definitely, and much shorter than that preferably.  --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * @ Gold Hat: every thing in my signature has meaning. I can tell you (or anyone else, for that matter) all about it, but that would take days. ;) From colour to name, it all represents me. I'm not trying to seek attention; I'm just trying to give colour to things. But I know we will never see eye to eye on this subject.
 * @Floquenbeam: is everything solved now? What did I do wrong? Ρόμπ   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  23:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * And if I want to change it again, where should I do this (on which page)? Ρόμπ   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  23:39, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: Hmm, my 'thank you' got lost, so it seems. I do thank you a lot, Floquenbeam! Thank you só very much for helping me by going step-by-step! It is much more appreciated than you could possibly suspect! :) Ρόμπ   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  00:02, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I really don't care what any of it means, and I doubt anyone else does. Your sig is inappropriate in the ways described above, you're leaving transclusions about that I'm half inclined to start cleaning up. You're not listening, and we have a page on that: WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. So, all of this is *disruptive*, you're being a time-suck and are making a mess. Damned, Gold Hat (talk) 00:09, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi. I struggled at sigs too, mere days ago. I tried to shorten mine a bit (check out my user name to see why), and settled for this: - (User.0.0.0.1) 09:14, 10 March 2011 (UTC) I don't link to my user page, so the "user" part isn't linked. The 0's link to talk, the 1 to contribs. If anyone thinks that's inapp, please tell me on my talk page.
 * @ Ρόμπ aka Robster1983: OTOH, your sig seems to be borderline OK. You're pushing it a bit (in that Ρόμπ doesn't translate into your user name, and WP:SIG disallows that masquerade if it is read by the letter) but the only thing I'd really change is: de-italicize the "life's short..." part for an easier reading. Yes it is customary to make the link to talk an italic superscript but it's a strain to the eye.
 * Disruptive or not: no more than signing with "Damned" IMO, since the first part links to your user page and the second part links to your talk page, and that's about all I expect from a sig.
 * However, the things which really count are: do you link to your pages (user and talk) and yes you do, and can your sig be mistaken for anyone else's, and no it cannot, and is your sig oversize, and no it isn't. I'd rather drop the link to the user page than the talk page. What we do here on WP is more important than what we are. My opinion again.

Let me repeat my reply above (seems to have got lost in the noise): Substitution in signatures is "highly discouraged":Substitution of templates in signatures is permissible but highly discouraged, as any such template will typically either violate the reasonable length restriction of 255 characters or will be redundant to using the same content as a raw signature. from WP:SIG. – ukexpat (talk) 16:11, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It's all solved now! :) It took some time, but finally I get the hang of it (well, at least that's what I think). Imma toy around with my signature some other time, it took enough time as it is already. :) Special thanks, again, to Floquenbeam and Athaenara, who really helped me out! _O_
 * And @ User.Zero.Zero.Zero.One: thanks for your opinion! This morning I replied on a mssg that Gold Hat left on my talkpage, saying that the "Damned" in his signature was, for me anyhow, very offensive, and it still would be, if Floquenbeam hadn't explained to me that it's part of his signature. The discussion almost turned ugly, for I thought he directed the "damned" at me (as you can read somewhere in this section). I dunno what he does with this, perhaps he doesn't do anything about it, but that's up to him, and I shan't say what he should or should not do. I also agree with you that, indeed, what we do on wikipedia is way more important. My attention would go to people who are vandalising articles, or add stuff that is POV/peacock/unsourced. Most anonymous wiki-users won't even see any signature at all; it's the article page that matters! But that's my humble opinion. Anyhow, as far as I'm concerned the entire discussion is closed. :) Ρόμπ   ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜  18:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd hardly called this solved; your sig is still garishly inappropriate and at odds with WP:SIG; how about acknowledging that your intent here is poor? You're still using, for example, and that's specifically mentioned. You should have a read of my talk page. Damned, Gold Hat (talk) 19:01, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes there are BIGs in Robster's sig, but the only thing they do is scale up the index (pointing hand icons), and the letter "G" of "Gold Hat" (and the digits in my sig) is still taller than the 'big' index is. IMO it's an IAR case, since the 'big' doesn't result in oversize letters (the thing which is meant to be forbidden), but is used to remedy undersize of the index. Nothing is wrong with that, and 'Damned' in a sig is not a thing which could be called wrong either (WP isn't censored), even if it causes some confusion now and then.
 * @Robster1983 Thanks for adjusting the colors of 'Life's short...', I have a much easier time reading it now. I wouldn't have thought that colors make more a difference than italics do. At first I thought OMG they wiped his account, he's a red link now but then I realized it was still clickable. - (User.0.0.0.1) 07:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Unable to see an edit
The last two edits I have made were "invisible". They immediately appeared in the article history and my contribs list, and were visible in edit mode, but the visible version of the article was/is the previous version. This fixed itself after about 30 minutes in one case but not yet in the other after about 15 minutes. I am using Firefox 3.5.4 on a Mac. Any idea what is going on? Ben  Mac  Dui  19:33, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Now visible in the second article after almost exactly 15 minutes. The above edit was visible immediately. Ben   Mac  Dui  19:34, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I have seen the same thing too, I think there are server issues. I have seen this and the replication lag is now at 7 hours.   GB  fan  19:39, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * A server purge usually fixes it. – ukexpat (talk) 19:52, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I've had the same problem repeatedly in the last couple of days: I do an edit, it looks fine in "Preview", I save it, it disappears. Very disconcerting, I find myself thinking "Did I press Cancel instead of Save?" and "Surely I stub-sorted that one a few minutes ago". If I add a PROD or SPEEDY template, and save the file, I can't see the template with the message to copy to put on the editor's page. It's never happened to me until yesterday, as far as I can remember. Please, someone, fix it! (I'm using Firefox, with Windows) PamD (talk) 23:17, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This is still happening - a feature is that on editing WikiProject Scottish Islands/Monro's Hebrides the url has http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Scottish_Islands/Monro%27s_Hebrides#Slate_Islands_.281.29 with an extra ".281.29" at the end. Editing and adding "&action=purge" did clear it, but its a nuisance. Ben   Mac  Dui  11:31, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

joining wikiprojects
This is my second attempt on asking this question. I simply want to know how to join a wikiproject group; specifically geology. It says to add my name at the bottom of the list, but I can see no way to do this. Do I need to be registered, signed in or what?24.11.16.253 (talk) 19:37, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It looks like you just need to add yourname to this page, WikiProject Geology/Participants.  GB  fan  19:42, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the IP editor might mean, "how do I do it if I'm an IP editor"? The answer is: Joining a Wikiproject only really makes sense if you have registered a username (which I recommend anyway).  The only real point to such lists is being able to contact editors interested in a subject, and if you edit from an IP address that changes, putting your real name, or an IP address, or something else that doesn't lead to a permanent talk page doesn't really do anything useful. I suppose in theory, if you're editing from a static IP, and you have a philosophical objection  of some kind to registering, you could add your IP talk page to the list, but I'd hazard a guess that some unfriendly person would come along and remove the IP address, and who needs the aggrevation? --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * In case you don't know, you are free to edit all unprotected articles in a contructive way whether or not you belong to a WikiProject. It doesn't matter if the article talk page has a WikiProject tag. You can also participate in discussions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geology without registering. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:42, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Merging talk pages
I noticed that an editor moved an article but not the associated talk page, then created a new talk page at the new location, resulting in two separate talk pages. Should the talk pages be merged in the same way that articles are normally merged (i.e. copy the content from one to the other and then redirect the one I copied the content from), or should they be history merged instead? No one has edited the old talk page since the new one was created, but I just thought I would ask in case there is any special procedure for merging talk pages. Calathan (talk) 22:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Someone else took care of the problem, so this is kind of moot now. Calathan (talk) 23:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Technical problem with a page
Hi help desk, I'd like to report a problem with a page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palos_Verdes_Peninsula_Land_Conservancy Is not displaying with correct stylesheet at all (I've checked in Firefox 3 and IE6). I'm not a Wikipedia editor and so don't know how to fix. Any ideas?

Thank you, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.183.45.66 (talk) 22:30, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * , or at least, I hope so. The page needed a null edit. Avic ennasis  @ 22:56, 3 Adar II 5771 / 9 March 2011 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Parsons
Hi, I am new to WIKIPEDIA. Last year I wrote a draft article on a deceased racing driver, Chuck Parsons, had it initially rejected, then saw it has since been published, after I did a few re-writes. I am just wondering how it got published- did someone from wikipedia publish it? I am glad it was picked up. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DGNW (talk • contribs) 23:07, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * According to its history, current incarnation of the article was created last December by User:Drdisque. It seems to have been created independently from your draft. —teb728 t c 23:30, 9 March 2011 (UTC)