Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 May 19

= May 19 =

Editing an "edit comment"
I have sometimes mis-spelled or made other errors in the "EDIT COMMENT" section of an edit, and have noticed it only after I have saved the edit. Can the comment be edited or is my error stuck there for all to see? Juve2000 (talk) 00:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It is going to be stuck there for all to see. The only thing I know of is that edit summaries can be hidden from view if there is something such as an extreme BLP violation.  GB fan (talk) 00:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If it makes you feel any better, I've often made mistakes in edit summaries. I just don't proof the summary as well as I proof the change (although, even there, I've made mistakes). I saw one editor "correct" his edit summary by making a null edit and explaining in the second edit summary. I don't advise doing that, though, because it would create a ton of relatively useless revision entries. Also, it's largely self-indulgent because it relates more to our vanity than to the good of the encyclopedia. Just chalk it up to "I wish I hadn't clicked on Save page so quickly."--Bbb23 (talk) 00:28, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Strictly that should be a "dummy edit" not a "null edit". -- John of Reading (talk) 06:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

i could not cite the quran in Metric expansion of space. Why?
(approximately 520 use the template Bibleverse and 210 use its shortened version bibleref) use external sources in Wikipedia so why cant we equally take references from other Holy books.I personally have been a victim by not letting  me add any relevant scientific information from the Quran. Why? that such extensive use of a Bible that is not compliant with the GFDL is also contrary to the Wikipedia's goals. Please try to bring equality and lets help the world to be more informed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tauhidaerospace (talk • contribs) 04:13, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * As far as the technical question: we also have a template, Quranref, which serves that purpose. It does not appear to be used extensively, however.


 * If you're referring to using the Quran as a source in an article about space, that's another matter entirely. As a general rule, a religious work is not an acceptable source outside of articles related to the book, its religion, or persons/deities/subjects covered in the book. Without having looked at the article, I would not expect the Bible to be used as a source in an article about space. —C.Fred (talk) 04:36, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The articles that reference the bible, as far as I found from a quick look, are all on either religious, sociological or philosophical topics - all topics where a biblical perspective is a useful one to include, and in some cases ones where I wouldn't be immediately opposed to referencing the Quran for a comparative viewpoint.
 * Your desired addition to Metric expansion of space, however, seems to be to promote a fringe theory from an Islamic website that relies on interpreting a single passage of the Quran that mentions "thy sky" and "expanders" as potential proof that Mohammed received divine knowledge about the expansion of space, which unless you can find some much stronger references for (both in the Quran and from the Islamic community showing that it's an interpretation that's widely held) I would give no more weight than the prediction that the Rapture is meant to come this year based on it being 7000 (or possibly 7001) years since the supposed date of Noah's flood, or any prediction based on Nostradamus' writings, or indeed anyone taking a similar passage out of a secular work and trying to interpret it as making an impressive prediction of a modern event or discovery (that Ancient Indian and Greek philosopher/scientists proposed a fundamental particle of matter doesn't mean that they knew anything about nuclear physics).
 * However, if you were to find such references, then I would still recommend that rather than trying to include this theory by editing it straight into the article, and discussing it only in the edit summaries of multiple reverts, that you take it to the Talk page to get some consensus on the principle of be bold, revert, discuss given its controversial nature. Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 04:57, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

related contribution
how to contribute pictures on Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hsk30 (talk • contribs) 06:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * See Help:Files. Be sure you own the copyright on the picture before you upload it.  This generally means that you pushed the button on the camera yourself.  -- Jayron  32  06:17, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

How do I create a SHA-512 user committed identity?
Hi, how do I hash my secret string and get it published so that I can use Template:User_committed_identity? AshLin (talk) 08:41, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia Signpost/2007-05-14/Committed identity may be of use to you. Rehevkor ✉ 08:53, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that was helpful! AshLin (talk) 08:59, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Cláudio César Dias Baptista recent article
Dear sirs: Good day! I am a reader of Cláudio's books and I utilize his siglum "CCDB". In the top of that page "Cláudio César Dias Baptista", which was accepted and published very recently, there is an allert telling the page is an "Orphan". Reading that allert, I went to several pages in En Wiki where the name "Cláudio César Dias Baptista" is mentioned and transformed that name in a link to the above mentioned recent page. Please, if the links are enough now, remove the allert. 187.13.70.63 (talk) 12:49, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I see you've successfully removed the orphan tag yourself. CaptRik (talk) 14:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Category formatting
How would I go about making categories display alphabetically? I can't see why some don't, like Category:New Zealand musical groups by genre. doom gaze  (talk)  13:00, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * See Help:Category. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:05, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you! doom gaze   (talk)  15:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Arman Cagle Helping Newbies
Hey, I was just wondering where I could find the newest account created users. I was wondering if there was a special page or something about that. I would love to help new people that are new to wikipedia.

Thanks

Arman Cagle ( Contact me EMail Me Contribs ) Please remember if you have any questions, please reply on my talk page. 13:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * User creation log. – ukexpat (talk) 13:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I think a good place for that would be New contributors' help page. It is a help page targeted at new editors. Apart from that, a lot of questions from new editors also come to this help desk. There is also a page somewhere showing a log of all newly created accounts (I can't remember where though :) ). I think you can simply put the pages I mentioned on your watchlist and try to jump in, when a question comes up (that's how I handle my work here at help desk, for example). Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 13:33, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I found it. The log page I mentioned above is Special:Log/newusers. However a lot of the accounts listed there will never make a single edit, so I am unsure how useful this would actually be. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 13:47, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The page Welcoming committee has lots of ideas and resources to help you welcome new users. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:02, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Can't see the forest....
I'm not used to editing articles that are heavy with references. It turns out to be difficult and error-prone.

When looking at the article, the reference text is hidden, only the reference numbers appear. But in edit mode the full text of each reference is displayed. In some paragraphs the reference text is much longer than the actual article text, to the point where it is very difficult to follow and edit the article.

Is there a way to be in edit mode, yet not show the reference texts?

For example, instead of seeing:

Once upon {ref blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah /ref} a time there were {ref blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah /ref} three {ref blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah /ref} little bears.{ref blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah /ref} {ref blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah /ref}

is there a way can one see:

Once upon {r} a time there were {r} three {r} little bears. {r} {r}

I.e., the locations of the references are shown but not their text.

Or alternatively the full reference text appears but in a distinctive font.

Once upon {ref blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah /ref} a time there were {ref blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah /ref} etc.

Thank you, Wanderer57 (talk) 13:26, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I think it is a good suggestion you make. It would be nice if one could chose a mode of presentation that made the extensive text of references less visually imposing. Bus stop (talk) 13:34, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * (e/c) Corrected /sub tag, hope you don't mind. WP:WikiEd code highlights references (in a grey background) among a large number of things that make it quite memory-intensive. There are probably others. If you're writing articles, then all the references can be specified in the references section itself, leaving only a tag in the article, but I think you mean editing pages in general. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 13:37, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Using list-defined references minimises the amount of ref text that you see (see my This Will Destroy You article for a real-world usage example). But of course this is useless if the article in question already uses a different ref style. doom gaze   (talk)  13:41, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you all. Yes, my concern is with editing in general where the style of references of course varies widely.  I will look at WikiEd.  It sounds as if it would serve the purpose.  Wanderer57 (talk) 16:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

new biogrpahy still has "New User Stendahl65/New Biography" as header
I created a new biography page for Willard D Morgan.

It seems to be viewing possibly as a provisional page. It is keeping a header on top that says "New User Stendahl65/New Biography" as the header.

We certainly want this to go away.

How do I do that.

Thank you

nils —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stendahl65 (talk • contribs) 14:03, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm unsure what you mean, but if, as I suspect, you want your article moved into the Main namespace, I suggest you read this page.  ajmint  (talk•contribs) 14:55, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * And note that it's not New User Stendahl65/New Biography but User:Stendahl65/New biography. The punctuation is significant, as is the case of the letter "b", as is the presence or absence of the word "New" at the beginning of the name. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:33, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikinews link
I hope this is the right place to ask. I've noticed that the interwiki link doesn't appear to work when used with an image. That is, if the link is attached to an image as it is here for example, clicking on the image merely takes one to the image file page rather than to Wikinews. The short version,, appears to work fine as do other interwiki links (I haven't checked them all). Interestingly,, as a text link, appears to work just fine. It's just when it is attached to images that the problem arises. LordVetinari (talk) 14:11, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It may be relevant that the "n:" prefix is a standard inter-project link, whereas the "wikinews:" prefix is one of the extra ones listed at Interwiki map. I see that you've worked round the problem this time. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:47, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

User name: login not possible and no e-mail address to send new password to
A few years ago, I created a user name on en.wikipedia.org. Unfortunately, I seem to have forgotten my password. On top of that, I apparently don't seem to have supplied an e-mail address to mail a password reset to. Since I use that same user name for my Dutch account and Wikimedia Commons, I'd like to be able to use the name for en.wikipedia.org, where I have made no contributions yet. Is there a way to regain control or delete-then-recreate the account on en.wikipedia.org? Thanks! RDF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.162.108.113 (talk) 14:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes; see Changing username/Usurpations. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:41, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * And note the last bulleted item under "Instructions" on the WP:USURP page. Deor (talk) 14:45, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much, guys, I hadn't found this! Will follow through. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.162.108.113 (talk) 15:40, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

how to handle a confirmed sock puppet of two users?
I noticed this morning that is listed as being a confirmed sock puppet of both  and. Does this imply that all Brucejenner socks are also Polylepsis, and vice versa? Should the SPI investigations be merged?

Would it be worth doublechecking the Polylepsis sock claim? According to the sockpuppet investigation, Adrianbius was confirmed as a sock even though an SPI hadn't been opened on him, which makes me wonder if that was a mistake. —Tim Pierce (talk) 15:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Adrianbius was found by the checkuser (see Sockpuppet_investigations/Polylepsis/Archive). As for Brucejenner/Polylepsis, there is a strong relationship between the two. Whether this is a sockpuppet or a meatpuppet is moot. So long as we can address recurrences reasonably easily is all that matters. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:46, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

logging in
every time I try to log in it says that there is no user by this user name. I then try and create an account and it says that this username is taken so I try to put a different username and it tells me that my e-mail address is already registered in the system.......i dont know what to do some one help me please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.36.52 (talk) 15:36, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * What is your user name supposed to be? Bielle (talk) 15:57, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * A new username may be rejected if it is too similar to an existing name. In that case, try a different name or a name-number combination. Millions of names are already registered so it may take some tries. I don't know the "e-mail address is already registered in the system" message. What is the precise wording? You can also try Request an account. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Ian Ritchie (architect)
Looking to resolve the concerns associated with this article and in the long-term removal of these concerns from the top of the article page, in light of further edits carried out; please can guidance be given as to how to address this? This has been discussed on the talk page Thank you Alex Johns (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Alex it appears that you might have a conflict of interest in this article, as such it may be best to simply back away from this article for the moment, and let the community attempt to refine this article. Feel free to continue to contribute on the talk page of that article. Tiggerjay (talk) 23:26, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

"Megan is Missing" a mockumentary
I know this is only a comment, but I found it highly offensive that you listed "Megan is Missing" as a mockumentary. The official definition may apply to this movie, but the term also suggests parody and satire, which this movie isn't in any way. "Megan is Missing" is based on actual evidence of children going missing. ANYONE who actually takes the time to watch this movie can clearly see it is no parody or satire. In fact, if you watch it it will haunt your thoughts for months later. Whoever does the research for these articles needs to contact some of the parents who have lost their children to predators and ask them if it humorous in any way. Shame on you Wiki. You used to be my favorite website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.1.119.28 (talk) 16:04, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * DO you have a question? Also read WP:SOAPBOX. C T J F 8 3  16:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * According to the Wikipedia definition of mockumentary: "A mockumentary (a portmanteau of mock documentary) is a type of film or television show in which fictitious events are presented in documentary format. These productions are often used to analyze or comment on current events and issues by using a fictitious setting, or to parody the documentary form itself." Thus, I assume Megan is Missing qualifies, not because it is satiric, but because "fictious events are presented in documentary format". I haven't seen it.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:11, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * "Mockumentary" does not necessarily mean a parody or satire, although fictional documentaries often are. This one has obviously been placed into this category because of its fictional documentary format, and the editor who placed it in this category meant no disrespect.   ajmint   (talk•edits) 19:05, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Email editnotice?
Is it possible to set editnotices for user email pages? As in could I create (or have an admin create) an edit notice for Special:EmailUser/Ks0stm and have it show up on only that page and not, for example, Special:EmailUser/Ks1stm? The primary purpose for me would be adding a notice to people who may use my email page that the email account associated with my primary Wiki account (this one) I don't check nearly as often as the one attached to my alternate (Ks1stm), meaning that people will have much faster response rates if they leave me a template on my Ks0stm talk or preferably if they email Ks1stm. I have this indicated on my userpage, but I think it would be much more efficient if I could have an editnotice on my email page, but I have no idea if it's even possible. Ks0stm (T•C•G) 17:05, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, this is possible - see WP:EMN. If you create User:Ks0stm/Emailnotice it will be displayed at Special:EmailUser/Ks0stm. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:11, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Categories again
I've been trying to sort out some of the mess that exists in the various rock music-related categories. What do I do about cats like Category:American power metal musical groups? Should bands have their own sub-categories like this, and if so how should this be formatted in relation to the whole category? doom gaze  (talk)  18:24, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

New Car Club entry
Hello, I would like to create a page for a car club (The BMW Car Club of Great Britain & Ireland - http://www.bmwcarclubgb.co.uk/ but I am unsure how I can gain an independent citation.

Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks, Darren Dteagles (talk) 21:13, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The first question would be to see if you have any affiliation with the car club? If so, you may have a conflict of interest. If that is the case, you may want to instead submit an article for creation request. Other things to review are your first article for great steps and reference material. Specifically I am thinking about the notability of the club to see if it meets wikipedia's standards Tiggerjay (talk) 07:54, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

MISL indoor
can you or so one put Major Indoor Soccer League logo on the MISL page i can not do it ???

http://www.chicagoriotsoccer.com/image_news_article/45.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.52.208.193 (talk) 22:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. —teb728 t c 23:33, 19 May 2011 (UTC)