Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 October 30

= October 30 =

Deleting articles
So I create a new page Amy Lake for an author of five books, and use Noq marks it for deletion. I follow the rules for removing that mark, (anyone who has five published books should be in Wikipedia, imho), but I decide to look at Noq. He or she seems to spend his life deleting other people's articles often in the fast delete mode. What's with that? Do I have to stand in front of my articles with my fencing equipment out to protect them from Mr. Eraser? Karen Anne (talk) 16:16, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

So, Noq reinserts the deletion notice, which if I read the rules correctly, is not allowable. I then removed it. Is there some mega-editor reading who can settle this? Thanks. Karen Anne (talk) 17:00, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The only deletion notice you are allowed to remove from a page you created is a a WP:PROD, as you did. You cannot remove an WP:AFD tag, instead you need to wait for Articles for deletion/Amy Lake to run its course. And instead of casting aspersions about noq, if you demonstrate real Notability by adding reliable references then you will be more likely to prevent it being deleted-- Jac 16888 Talk 17:04, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

It has references. Commenting on a user who contributes nothing but damages a considerable amount of the valid work of others is reasonable, in my view. Considering, based on his talk page, how much damage he has done and the aggravation and discouragement he causes other workers, perhaps he should be banned. Wikipedia is concerned about losing writers, is it not? Karen Anne (talk) 17:26, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Here we judge content not users, accusing noq does nothing to help your article. The current "references" are virtually worthless, if you're unable to provide any better ones then the article will be deleted, as are many other articles whether or not nominated by noq. Not everything and everyone belongs on Wikipedia. I will say it again, stop ranting about Noq, it won't achieve anything, and try to actually improve the article-- Jac 16888 Talk 17:35, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Please help
I am new to Wikipedia.

I drafted an article. When I hit the preview button, only a small part of the article appears. Does this mean that only part of the article will be submitted??

I've tried the chat, but I am having trouble with it.

Can you please help me or give me some direction.

20:58, 26 October 2011 (diff | hist) N Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/LightDims ‎

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Crystal Hampton Crysanne (talk) 20:15, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, the problem was that a tag to close it and make it a reference. Without it, most of the text was considered the reference. Jarkeld (talk) 20:21, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Lists: Commas or en dashes?
I reverted an edit made by 96.232.126.111 on List of people from Brooklyn, New York because every list I had seen before (for instance, Deaths in 2011 and List of people from New York) used commas in that context, not en dashes. After my reversion was subsequently, erm, reverted, I checked the MoS to make sure that commas were the correct punctuation to use there, but I couldn't find anything about it at all. So, should an item in a list be written as (for example) "Cal Abrams, Major League Baseball player," or as "Cal Abrams – Major League Baseball player"? &mdash; Malcolm (talk) 01:58, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:ENDASH (point 4) says that spaced en dashes can be used as separators in "certain lists", without specifying exactly what kinds of lists. Frankly, this isn't the kind of matter on which I'd expect Wikipedia-wide consistency; as long as the punctuation in the list is internally consistent, I'd leave it alone. Deor (talk) 09:47, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Blood Atonement
There is an article under the title Blood Atonement, describing beliefs of the Mormon faith. The only trouble is that as a member of that faith myself and a number of colleagues have seen this link and we have found that there is not just a minor, but rather an 100% bias against the Mormon faith. There is no information on this post that has any truth toward those members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

This post should be removed promptly as it holds no accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daddychainmail (talk • contribs) 05:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not censored. It's unlikely that this article, which is extensively sourced, will be removed, any more than the images of Mohammed are removed from the Mohammed article.  You can discuss your objections to sources on the article's Talk page, but sticking your personal opinion at the top of the article is not collegial.  Try opening a discussion on the article's Talk page.  I see you have put your opinion there, but you have yet to say which sources are not true.  The Mark of the Beast (talk) 20:02, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * An article as substantial as Blood atonement is likely to have several editors watching it, so your posting of your complaint on Talk:Blood atonement was a very good first step. However, as The Mark of the Beast indicated, if you would like to fix the article, the best way to do so is to either show that sources relied on are either not reliable or are misquoted or (preferred) to provide reliable sources of your own for how the article should be changed.  --Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:30, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Tjteetrt dalton
Does anyone know who th job dalton wrestled for supposedly he wash one wcw but I cant find him can anyone help thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.246.144.104 (talk) 05:52, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Symbol move vote.svg Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. —teb728 t c 06:21, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Font for mathematical formulas stored as images
Was wondering whether the font for mathematical formulas could be improved.

Most formulas are provided as images, anyway, so it makes sense to use a nice antialiased font for them.

The formulas become unreadable when viewing wikipedia with a light-text-dark-background theme, with firefox and the stylish plugin.

Most text is readable. It is just the formulas displayed as images that become unreadable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.231.106 (talk) 06:32, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The shortcomings of TeX markup rendering have been discussed many times, see here for instance, but I don't think anything is going to change any time soon. It is not possible to render all formulae as HTML text, they are often way too complex for the capabilities of HTML.  The Wikipedia solution is to render them in LaTeX and then generate a PNG image at the server end before serving the page.  If you create an account, you will be able to set in your preferences to display formulae in HTML if possible which will help your problem.  However, as I say, this is not always possible and editors often deliberately include in the math markup a hidden symbol that cannot be rendered in HTML in order to force PNG rendering and give a consistent look to the article.  There is also an experimental option to render as MathML, but currently this does not seem to be rendering with correct italics and can also be forced to PNG as with HTML.  Spinning  Spark  08:36, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I think I have my problem better thought out now.

I think the problem is that the images of math formulas on wikipedia are stored as transparent png files.

With firefox, stylish, and a dark-theme, I can read the formulas as images at ...

http://plus.maths.org/content/os/issue11/features/cfractions/index

... but not at ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continued_fraction

I would like to request the feature that math formulas on wikipedia be stored as png files with an opaque background. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.231.106 (talk) 20:10, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Licensing template for a non-free image of a building
I uploaded a non-free image of a building with the generic tag. Is there a more appropriate tag for non-free images of buildings used for depiction of a specific event in the buildings history (such as its destruction for example or an important event that caused severe damage)? I couldn't find one that seems to be appropriate at WP:ICT/FU. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 09:54, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think so, unless you are looking for Template:Non-free architectural work, but you could try looking through Category:Non-free Wikipedia file copyright tags. Generally, it is difficult to promote a non-free rationale for images of buildings since free images frequently are available, or can be created.  I assume we are discussing File:Iraq National Library Destroyed.jpg, if the building is no longer in that state creating a new non-free image has become impossible of course.  Spinning  Spark  10:26, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Since travel warnings such as Irak: Reisewarnung seem to be still active I would guess that a free alternative could perhaps not be made without an unproportionally high risk, although WP:NFCC does not seem to address such a case. And according to the library is supposed to move to a new building, but I have to admit don't know whether the old building still stands or has since been demolished, which seems to be one of the determining factors in whether a free equivalent could be created. Furthermore I haven't found any equivalent images released under a free license, so my guess is a free alternative does not currently exist. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 11:26, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Also the "quick test" WP:NFCC Policy 1 refers to is considerably vague anyway. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 11:37, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * If the quick test seems vague to you, it may be that you don’t have a clear idea of how use of the photo significantly increases reader understanding. As far as I can tell, the use doesn’t. —teb728 t c 12:26, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Can you define for me then what "significantly increases reader understanding" is supposed to mean in that context? Maybe I don't have a clear idea of it because the policy does not clearly define what it is supposed to mean. I agree however, that perhaps an image of the interior might be better, although that is quite subjective in my opinion. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 15:01, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

problem in editing Wikipedia site
Hi:I wanted to delete one sentence from the Wikipedia article on Ditlev Gothard Monrad, and placed the desired sentence in square brackets. i also gave my reason for that deletion.

Instead, the entire article has been deleted and replaced by my Delete and sentence.

Sorry, I'm too rushed to have an hour or so to study the new complicated instructions. Can you restore the previous entry and simply delete the desired sentence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.155.71.12 (talk) 09:54, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I have reverted your edit. I don't know what you mean by "new complicated instructions". - David Biddulph (talk) 10:00, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I think they mean instructions for editing properly (remember it is a lot harder for an IP).  Rcsprinter  (shout)  12:00, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Your edit deleted all the existing content. Perhaps you clicked edit and incorrectly thought you should remove all the content from the edit box before making your own edit. Wikipedia is a wiki and you can edit the existing content directly. If you remove content from the edit box then it's removed from the page. If you have suggestions for an edit you don't want to make yourself then click the "Discussion" tab and post the suggestion there. See Help:Using talk pages. If you want to learn a little about editing then see Tutorial. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:31, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

My watchlist
Why does edit 23:54 26 OCT Intifada not appear on my watchlist when I have ticked the watch this page box? Padres Hana (talk) 09:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Because you were not logged in when you made the edit. See the edit history of the article. —teb728 t c 10:37, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The question was about the watchlist and not the contributions list. See your watchlist settings at Special:Preferences. There are several settings that would make the edit not show. For example, it's not the most recent edit so if "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" is not checked then it shouldn't show. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:17, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The history, however, explains why Intifada was not added to the watchlist: Since Padres Hana was not logged in, ticking the watch this page box did not add the page to the account watchlist. —teb728 t c 19:55, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Logged out users do not have a watch this page box. Padres Hana edited the article 19 September 2011‎. I guess from the post that the most recent edit does appear on the watchlist but we don't have enough information to determine whether this is the case or whether the page is actually watched or not. Users can se this for their own account at Special:EditWatchlist. Others cannot see it for privacy reasons. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:43, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I had ticked the "watch this space" box when I made the original edit and I was signed in. (12 September). I discovered that the edit had been deleted when my watchlist recorded an update on 30 October. The deletion occured on 26 October and I have double checked my watchlist it records other edits on 26th but not the intifada one. I have been aware of changes that I have missed in the past and put it down to not noticing - this is the first time I have checked. I will check special:EditWatchlist.Its a puzzle. Padres Hana (talk) 17:19, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * If you see at least one edit of a page on your watchlist then the page is watched and there is no need to check Special:EditWatchlist. But as I said, there are several settings at Special:Preferences that would make the 26 October edit not show. Have you examined the settings? I can see the October 26 edit on my watchlist with the proper settings. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:34, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Word
HOW TO PRONOUNCE THE WORD "ICOSIUM"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.104.98.101 (talk) 10:02, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Symbol move vote.svg Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps.  Spinning Spark  10:31, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, I would pronounce it /aɪˈkoːsɪəm/. —teb728 t c 10:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Broken tool?
Is the view stat tool broken? E.g. this page and many other pages seem to have stopped 10 days ago. Should probably let Wikimedia people know. History2007 (talk) 10:13, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * See the statement at the bottom of the page you cite: “This is very much a beta service and may disappear or change at any time. Questions or comments should go to User:Henrik”. —teb728 t c 10:44, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * (ec) The stats tool is not maintained by Wikimedia. Faults should be reported to User talk:Henrik and there is already a long list of comments on his page.  There was also a discussion at VPT, apparently Hendrik is currently away and cannot action this at the moment.  Spinning  Spark  10:47, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Henrik has not been around Wikipedia since March 2011 see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Henrik . What's more his user page is being edited by others, not by him - something that is new to me. Ottawahitech (talk) 12:55, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * If you read the link I provided to the discussion on VP you will see that Henrik has been contacted by e-mail and replied, so is aware of the problem. The edits on his page are very old vandalism and reversions or "housekeeping" type edits.  The most recent edit in August was to award a barnstar.  I see no edits from anyone else editing the page as if they were Hendrik.  Spinning  Spark  14:22, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Not a big deal for me, but if someone feels like it, should suggest to WMF to take over it, because it is useful. History2007 (talk) 16:18, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * What is the "discussion on VP"? Ottawahitech (talk) 12:37, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Discussion on Village pump —teb728 t c 12:46, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

search engine broken after update 1.12 to 1.17
Hi there,

after the update the search for pages or text returns nothing. Also using the sphinx extension doesen' t gives no change in the result.

Additionaly I have a setup with multiple namespaces. But the Prefix Search shows only page titles of the main namespace. After I have deselected all namespaces und select a single custom namespace the prefix search shows pages in that namespace.

Running: MediaWiki 	1.17.0 (Version 100337) PHP 	5.3.8 (apache2handler) MySQL 	5.5.16 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.16.163.244 (talk) 15:10, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I am unsure whether this help desk is the right place for this. MediaWiki doesn't seem to have an own help desk, but there are several venues for requesting help listed at MediaWiki Communication. I suggest you try one of those. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 15:17, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * This help desk is only for Wikipedia. MediaWiki has a help desk at mw:Project:Support desk. I suggest you post a link to your wiki if it's publicly available. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:28, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Note to self: Read pages through to the bottom. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 15:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect reference on Alexandrian Wicca
Hi

I am very honoured that a page from my website has been quoted as a reference on the article for Alexandrian Wicca - however, I have had a site reorganisation, and the quoted link no longer works. Please can the URL be changed to the new location: http://www.thewellhead.org.uk/tradition/an-introduction-to-alexandr.html

thank you! David & Geoff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.197.36.105 (talk) 15:10, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I have updated the url. There is also a dead link to http://www.thewellhead.org.uk/GP/malcuth.htm at LGBT topics and Wicca. Which url do you think this should be now? PrimeHunter (talk) 15:36, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I have updated it too. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:07, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

talkpage ITN template
Hi - on Talk:Death of Muammar Gaddafi there is a ITN template for 20 October 2011 - but there is no link in it to see what it was or where it appeared. Is it possible to add the actual diff to the template, as without it it seems like a meaningless factoid. Also, are these templates, ITN and OnThisDay, added by bots or by interested users? Off2riorob (talk) 23:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * ITN talk does not have such a feature. You have to examine the page history of Template:In the news to find the entry there. The  parameter can make a link to Portal:Current events/2011 October 20 if the date is written in the right format. ITN entries are often tweaked when more information becomes available or there has been more time to discuss it so it may be problematic to show the diff from when it was originally added. On this day, ITN talk and DYK talk are all added by editors. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:13, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, thanks for the details. The ITN talkpage template does seem to be quite worthless then, to me at least. The diff when you find it just says, Gaddafi was killed on 20 October 2011 which is anyway, common knowledge now and in the lede of the article .. thanks for your reply. - Off2riorob (talk) 00:26, 31 October 2011 (UTC)