Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 August 18

= August 18 =

David Friede
Why were the David Friede and Fr/action articles removed? I can't find anything about them when I was able to previously.
 * From what I can tell, there never was an article for David Friede. There is an article on David Freidel however.  Dismas |(talk) 04:21, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * and one on David L. Fried. Maproom (talk) 08:46, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Based on Google searches "Fr/action" is a project by a musician called David Friede. He is mentioned in Ganymede (band) but apart from this I haven't found signs that Fr/action or David Friede have been mentioned in Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:25, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

how to find out size of a page after citations etc took out
hiya all,

i want to know how i can find out the size ofa article when all things like cite web cite news, wikitable code, wiki code etc is took out of a page, just now i am working on a page and it exceeding the wp:size i think that the right one for being over 100kb, but i know about 1/3 of that is data that used for reference and other things so i like to know what the size of the apge is when it is barebones data that is displayed on the screen when not editing-- Andrewcrawford ( talk  -  contrib ) 12:55, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Try going to the page you are here about and once there paste into your browser's address bar (must be Firefox or Safari):

javascript:importScript('User:Dr pda/prosesize.js'); getDocumentSize;
 * This should provide a size report. If this doesn't work, you can install the user script, User:Dr pda/prosesize.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 14:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * unfortnaly nither worked probally more to do with i have comptuer issue and my system need rebuilt, but the artic.e is Rangers F.C. if someone can post the details for it here for me i be gratefully-- Andrewcrawford ( talk  -  contrib ) 17:08, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Current page size stats for Rangers F.C.:
 * File size: 462 kB
 * Prose size (including all HTML code): 65 kB
 * References (including all HTML code): 16 kB
 * Wiki text: 97 kB
 * Prose size (text only): 34 kB (5806 words) "readable prose size"
 * References (text only): 726 B
 * -- John of Reading (talk) 20:49, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * thanks john i appericate it, at leas ti knwo where the article stand on wp size-- Andrewcrawford ( talk  -  contrib ) 21:04, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Wikibin
Can I copy an article from the wikibin?? Is it free to use?? -- Zayeem talk 13:24, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikibin is a wiki completely unaffiliated with Wikipedia, and its parent organization the Wikimedia Foundation. Its content appears to be mostly made up of copyright violations of content taken from here without providing proper attribution under our licenses. Its front page says all its content is licensed under one of our licenses, the [GFDL]] but not the other. If content was originally from here and was posted under our license it's possible it may be properly re-used if that reuse complies with our licenses (both of which require attribution). For that, see Reusing Wikipedia content. The problem is that much of Wikibin's content is apparently items that were deleted from here, including things that were deleted because they were themselves copyright violations of third party material. So the short answer is that there's no easy answer, but generally, no; certainly not in the simple way your question implies of just copying it.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 14:24, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Wikibin contains copies of deleted Wikipedia articles but Wikibin does not attribute the contributors in a page history or in other ways so they break the license and it would violate the rights of the original contributors to copy their work. See also Copying within Wikipedia which says: "Deleted articles may not be recovered and reused from Wikipedia mirrors". There is also another problem: The article was deleted from Wikipedia for a reason, sometimes a legal reason, and shouldn't just be recreated without discussion or checking by an administrator. See Requests for undeletion if you want the original article undeleted from Wikipedia. This will also restore the page history so the contributors are properly attributed. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:37, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, actually I was looking for the article Fuad al Muqtadir, and found that it was deleted for the lack of reliable sources claiming the artiste's notability. I asked the admin to userfy that deleted page and he did it. I then put some reliable sources in that article and re-created it. But then it got deleted again for being copied from a deleted page. Now as I said, the reason for being deleted in the first time was the lack of reliable sources and not the copyright violations, so can it be re-used?? If not then what should I do?? -- Zayeem talk 15:56, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * You made the mistake of copy-pasting from User:Kmzayeem/Fuad al Muqtadir to a page you created at Fuad al Muqtadir. That breaks the license as described in Copying within Wikipedia. You should have moved User:Kmzayeem/Fuad al Muqtadir so the page history was kept with attribution to the old contributors. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:34, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

probable link towards a virus on the 'Quoridor' page
Hi, I found in this article about a game :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoridor#External_links

this link towards a software version of the game :
 * C++ using SDL implementation, open source solution

i'm quite sure this software conveys a virus (a prompt that would not disappear, asking you to pay a 100 euros fine for supposely having visited some porn web sites) the prompt appeared couple of minutes after the installation

i deleted the reference in the article anything else to do on your side ?

Sébastien BRON — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.169.42.234 (talk) 15:46, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

1.0 assessment chart seems to be forbidden for me, any help?
Recently, I was trying to accesses parts of the WikiProject Physics 1.0 assessment listings, this, for example. I get the following message: "Forbidden (403) You are not allowed to view this page. If you think you are receiving this page in error, or you have a question, please contact the owner of this document: enwp10 [at] toolserver [dot] org.". I've been able to visit the pages in the past. Any help? Buggie111 (talk) 15:48, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * What specifically did you do to reach that link? If you clicked something then what did you click where? PrimeHunter (talk) 16:50, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * went to the Wiki Project Physics page, scrolled to the assessment table, and clicked on "Top-importance start quality artciles". Buggie111 (talk) 16:59, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Quotation marks usually indicate a direct quote but that doesn't appear to be the case here. I guess you mean the intersection of the "Top" column and "Start" row at WikiProject Physics. All the links fail. The tool is currently down. See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Index. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:19, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

how to find hcard information
when editing a article how can you find where teh hcard informaiton is that getting used on the page?-- Andrewcrawford ( talk  -  contrib ) 17:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Does WikiProject Microformats/hcard answer your question? If not then please give an example. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:21, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * yip i found it, it coming from another template so im happy now it fine-- Andrewcrawford ( talk  -  contrib ) 18:26, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

BOT
I am a bot account now how do I use it ? GyttonBot (talk) 17:32, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If you have a bot you wish to use, you need to get it approved first. See Bot Approvals Group for more details.  -- Jayron  32  18:35, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * This request should not be treated seriously. Apart from the above, GyttonBot's only contributions have been to leave some   abuse (now deleted) on another user's talk page, and to create an article (now tagged for speedy delete) whose entire content reads "What is a Paint bomb ? Please tell me as I need it's article for School Project." Now he has been warned "your username, "GyttonBot", may not meet Wikipedia's username policy because it contains the suffix "-bot""; so he has apparently decided to be a bot. Maproom (talk) 18:54, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I blocked the account for personal attacks and because of the user name. It doesn't appear they are here to be productive. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 19:18, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Requests for file renaming
Per WP:IFN, image titles that have no meaning should be changed. That said, I stumbled upon File:DSC 9467 crop.JPG, and the title to be renamed to "Canoe_Cauius.jpg", based on the image summary. I did not notice that I misspelled "Caius". A few minutes later, the image uploader my rename request, labeling me edit as vandalism. That brings up my first question; is it appropriate to remove someone else's rename request in general? Anyways, I his edit, saying it was not vandalism, but he  it back, saying "suggesting cauius-canoe is vandalism. please stop." He then posted on my talk page, saying "please take the silly undergrad games somewhere else. And learn how to spell." I replied, telling him to calm down and assume good faith (which were my intentions), and informed him that I have a BA in psychiatry. He replied by saying "If you can't tell an eight from a canoe and if you can't spell "Caius", find a different picture to comment on" -- That constitutes WP:OWN, and he was getting very rude with me. I wrote back, explaining my reasoning behind the request. The basic point, is that I made a good-faith rename request, with a silly typo, that William could have easily fixed/changed. Instead, he decided to be extremely rude to me, and continued to remove my rename request. Is this something worth taking to AN/I? TRLIJC19 ( talk  •  contribs ) 19:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It's not a canoe but a rowing boat called an eight (rowing). The uploader apparently suspected you of making fun. There is probably rivalry and teasing involved in these races. I believe you were acting in good faith and he should have been more polite but it's a minor dispute not worth AN/I. Suggest a proper name like "Caius and Downing at Lent Bumps 2012" and leave it at that. I would only consider it a WP:OWN problem if a proper name suggestion is reverted. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * You mis-spelled the name of the college and called an eight a canoe. Ok, that can be attributed to extreme incompetence. But when corrected, you did it again. I don't blame him for attributing that to malice. Maproom (talk) 20:20, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * As I've said, instead of reverting, he could have just fixed the typo and misidentification. Then, when I explained I did not mean to perform the typo, and my edits were in good faith, he continued to criticize me. His block history reads like a phone book, much of the blocks for personal attacks and civility issues. TRLIJC19  ( talk  •  contribs ) 20:29, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, it is not "incompetent" to make an extremely minor spelling typo. He could have just fixed it. TRLIJC19  ( talk  •  contribs ) 20:30, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately it's far too common for editors to mislabel edits as vandalism when it is not clear that they are. Your edits, while incorporating two errors in the span of two words, were not obvious vandalism. Labeling them as such in an edit summary, which is effectively permanent, after the other party has disagreed with the label given to their edit, well, suffice to say you're well within your rights to have been frustrated by it. The initial judgment WMC made is understandable (especially since we have the benefit of hindsight where he did not), but he should have handled it differently as things unfolded. PrimeHunter is right though, this isn't something for AN/I. It seems like it's over with, and any administrator intervention should only be made with the goals of deescalating to prevent further disruption. In cases like this where the issue persists, my advice would be rather than consdering AN/I, check out the steps that WP:EW suggests. BigNate37(T) 20:36, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you BigNate37; everything you said makes sense. TRLIJC19  ( talk  •  contribs ) 21:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Making a new Rugby Union Flag Template.
I am trying to create a flag template for a rugby union team that includes its flag/logo and its name similat to the template.

I am trying to use the same effect but with the British and Irish Lions logo/flag with their name next to it. Some thing like .

Could someone explaine how to do this, or create the template for me.

British and Irish Lions flag/logo is on this address. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Logo_Lions_Rugby.svg

If you do create it for me, could you also do it for the Barbarians flag/logo.

Barbarians flag/logo is on this addresss. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barbarians.png


 * Just to note, File:Logo Lions Rugby.svg is a non-free file, each usage of it requires a non-free use rationale. Using it in a template would probably be inappropriate. Could that image be replaced by another one that would serve the same purpose, say a combination of the UK and Irish flags? Quasihuman (talk • contribs) 21:25, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps this image will be ok. File:British and Irish Lions flag.svg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew.Leon111 (talk • contribs) 21:58, 18 August 2012 (UTC) or may be this one File:Free Use British and Irish Lions flag (bordered).png — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew.Leon111 (talk • contribs) 22:00, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not entirely convinced that File:British and Irish Lions flag.svg is licensed appropriately, since it's essentially a derivative work of the non-free File:Logo Lions Rugby.svg. I'm not an expert at the application of WP:LOGO clause #3, but it seems to me if that applied then the actual logo wouldn't bear a copyright notice (in other words, at least one of them seems to be incorrectly licensed). In any event, note that the relevant guideline for all logos is Logos. (Use of non-free logos must, of course, also conform to our Non-free content criteria policy; that and other pertinent concerns are all discussed at the logo guideline.) BigNate37(T) 22:06, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Spamlist on preview
Hi. I looked around for this answer but couldn't find an answer, so here I am. Is there any reason that a URL that is on the blocked list doesn't trigger a notice on preview? I tend to preview my articles on creation and would love it if the notice that a particular URL is disallowed popped up on the first preview after insertion rather than only when you save the changes. It seems to me it would be easier for article creators to find a new source at that point, rather than after article is ready to be submitted. Thanks! StarM 22:46, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It sound like it would be a good feature. I can only find MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist/archives/January 2011 where a user said: "Just guessing, but checking the blacklist would be a fairly intense operation for the server". PrimeHunter (talk) 00:00, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Not sure how I missed that. I guessed it was a technical issue since it seems like something that would make sense. Is there a good place to suggest/ask officially about this or to confirm that it would be a technical load issue? I know of VP/T but usually the conversation there is above my level of understanding StarM 00:07, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * This is just off the cuff so I might be way off here, but assuming the blacklist is public it would be feasible to perform the searching client-side, perhaps through a custom JavaScript module. For as often as the average editor would accidentally insert a blacklisted URL, I could only such a tool being of interest to folks who specialize in adding links. BigNate37(T) 00:12, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * If you don't want to ask in VPT, maybe one of the other Village Pumps, such as the Idea Lab. RudolfRed (talk) 00:14, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, BigNate. I've been hit by the "ready to save, oops that link is bad" twice in last week. That's why I thought to mention it here. Probably the only two times in my article creating/editing that it happened so not sure how big an issue it is. Rudolf, will look into that. I'm not as familiar with those sections. StarM 00:56, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * What exactly happens when you save changes and there is a blocked URL, anyways? Is the entire edit discarded, or does it show you the contents of your rejected edit as well? It seems to me you should be able to browse back to the last previewed version of your edits, but even if that's correct it's not exactly a reason to keep things the way they are. BigNate37(T) 01:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It shows the contents of the rejected edit. It's not in an edit box but you can either copy-paste it or use the browser back button (unless you have a crappy browser which doesn't remember your content when you go back). You can for examle try what happens with http://suite101.com . PrimeHunter (talk) 01:16, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Seems to be a crapshoot if you get the behavior PrimeHunter mentioned above - I use FF 13 on Mac running SnowLeopard and I don't always get my text back. I'm used to that issue, however, and make a habit of Command A, Command C before pressing save in case I get a loss of session data or any other hinky issue. On a related note, time to go find why the site that hit me yesterday is blacklisted. It's not an obvious one IMO StarM 03:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)