Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 February 23

= February 23 =

Adding picture of sports team uniforms?
There is a wiki page for Boston Victory Soccer Club and the picture of its uniform has a question mark to say that the uniform colors are unknown. They are now selling jerseys on their website and it obviously shows the jersey and its colors. How would someone change the picture of a uniform from unknown to a picture of the jersey that they unveiled? So instead of all white with a question mark it would show as red and black stripes.

Thanks for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.8.211 (talk) 00:21, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Look at the instructions for Infobox football club. You could ask on that talk page if you need further help. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 01:12, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/SpiderGraph chart - Notability & 3rd party Sources
Dear Help Desk,

I've been trying to make my article more encyclopedic since 10/2/2011 with the help of 7 Review Editors. The article seems pretty much finalized as of Feb. 15 and I wanted to let the Editors know and to Thank them for all your help.

The article's main remaining objections have been about Notability and citing published Sources that are reliable and independent. Now that I have files to attach (maybe to an email) that would prove that fact, I find myself wondering just how I go about doing that so I can clear up any problem holding my article from going public?? It doesn't look as if I can find any place to attachment my files (let alone 8 files), so I guess I need your help! Can you tell me what I should do?

Thanking you in advance, Gregory L. Chester 01:37, 23 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GregLChest (talk • contribs)


 * E-mails cannot be used as sources. What you need are published sources;  if the information has not been published you can't use it as a source. I notice, however, that since you sumbitted your question your draft has now become an article, so other editors can improve it if necessary. - David Biddulph (talk) 08:03, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

problem of zh_tw version of wikipedia
I seriously doubt the auditing(or verifying) qulaity of zh_tw version of wikipedia cause I find many many articles of this version are mixed with many simplified Chinese in them. I have to edit these articles from time to time. Is there any possible way to prevent this kind of phenomenon? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.250.133.153 (talk) 05:52, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * There may be, but each language's Wikipedia has its own policies, and each relies on the efforts of volunteer editors to implement them. This help desk is for people using or editing the English-language Wikipedia. I suggest you look for an appropriate noticeboard on that Wikipedia to make suggestions or offer your help. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:26, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * This may be useful: Chinese Wikipedia. As it suggests, Chinese wikipedia attempts to automatically convert between simplified and traditional, but I'd be surprised if this works all the time.  You can probably get more information on the Chinese wikipedia. --Colapeninsula (talk) 12:21, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Question about article submission

 * Articles for creation/Jedediah Bila

When you create a new article (in this case I created one about a cited biography of a current news commentator), is it supposed to be a "project" or "talk" page. I created it as a project page, but was truly unsure if this was the correct way to go. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated!

Jluca1976 (talk) 06:21, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Draft article are usually created as user subpages or as subpages of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation. I don't think there is a problem putting it in project space, but it is lacking the header template that facilitates submission for review. —teb728 t c 08:25, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by "project page"? Each page is in a specific namespace (see Namespace for more information). The namespace of articles is usually referred to as article space or main namespace (see Main namespace). Pages in the talk namespace (talk pages) are for discussion about the article while the article content (anything that is supposed to be part of the article) is in article / main namespace. I see you created a page at Articles for creation/Jedediah Bila. This page is in Wikipedia namespace and not considered part of the encyclopedia yet, since it is not in the main namespace. It can be moved into article space once it has been reviewed. You can also move the page into your userspace and work on it as a userspace draft. Once it is ready, it can be moved into main namespace. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 08:36, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The term "project page" is sometimes used as a synonym for "page in the Wikipedia namespace". -- John of Reading (talk) 08:48, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * So, to clarify, if you had been through the normal "Article for Creation" process, your draft would have been at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Jedediah Bila, not Articles for creation/Jedediah Bila, and it would have been given appropriate headers so that it would be listed in WikiProject Articles for creation/Submissions and Category:Pending AfC submissions (and other relevant categories). - David Biddulph (talk) 10:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I have moved the draft to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Jedediah Bila and applied the AFC submission template. – ukexpat (talk) 14:16, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Reliability & NPOV. Clarification of policy.
Hi, folks. I hope you can help me with a hypothetical.

Consider the article about the Sun. Ideally, (1) Editors summarize information that has been published about the Sun. (2) WP:RELIABILITY requires that editors believe the published information is true. (3) WP:NPOV requires emphasis on information that has been widely published.

Now, what if every publication in history said the Sun was a planet. Per WP:NPOV, Editor A would emphasize the planet bit because it has been widely published. But then one scientific researcher publishes one article of 100 that proves that the Sun is a star and not a planet. Can Editor B, according to WP policy, claim that the other 99 sources are unreliable, because they are not reliable statements about what is true, and thus remove them from the article as statements of fact? NTox · talk 06:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Reliability is not a matter of the opinion of editors but of the reputation of the place where the information is published. For example, NASA and The Astrophysical Journal are reliable because (rightly or wrongly) they have a reputation for being reliable, whereas my blog and the Flat Earth Society do not have such a reputation. So if the one researcher publishes that the sun is a star in The Astrophysical Journal, editor B could mention it as a new theory that challenges accepted knowledge. But if the researcher publishes it in his blog, that doesn’t qualify for inclusion. In any case under your hypothesis the editor can’t say the sun definitely is a star, for that would give WP:UNDUE weight to a WP:FRINGE theory. —teb728 t c 08:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. This is helpful. NTox · talk 23:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Did I just screw up royally? "Wikipedia Commons" (resolved)
In the WP:MOS/images, I found the sentence, "Rather than including an image gallery on an article, which could add significantly to the download size, consider creating a gallery/category on the Wikipedia Commons instead." (emphasis not in source)

This looked like a typo to me, so I changed the p to a m, but I am unsure now, if that was correct, or if I acted too WP:BOLDly.

I know of both, images on wikipedia and images on commons, and that the latter ones cannot contain any non-free images, but I don't really know if a third thing, the Wikipedia Commons, exists.

Can anyone of the image and license experts please look at that? I marked the edit as "small", which might prevent my edit from getting the due attention. My apology if I was wrong. - ¡Ouch! (hurt me / more pain) 08:20, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That edit looks good to me. There is no "Wikipedia Commons" - that's just a redirect to Wikimedia Commons. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:32, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I got really uncertain about that one... - ¡Ouch! (hurt me / more pain) 09:00, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Templates overflowing out of screen
The templates Template:UKFlags and Template:Alliance of European Conservatives and Reformists overflow to the side of the screen. I tried everything from and , and   does not solve the problem. How do I make the browser render breaks automatically? Shuipzv3 (talk) 10:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * See navbox and set hlist. I can look at this later. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 10:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I already did; it didn't work. Shuipzv3 (talk) 10:45, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Is that what you wanted? Dru of Id (talk) 11:01, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, that solved the problem with the UK flag template, but the other one is unresolved. Shuipzv3 (talk) 11:10, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I update both to use hlist. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 11:48, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * ...and made it so it runs off the right of the screen again...look at it in higher magnifications if it looks correct. Dru of Id (talk) 11:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Both templates are still running off the sides. I have been raking over WP:MOS and WP:NOWRAP, but can't seem to find any solution. Shuipzv3 (talk) 12:02, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * What browser and version are you using? What is your zoom level? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 12:03, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

IE8 (I know, I know) running on Windows 7, zoom level 100%, screen resolution 1024x576. Shuipzv3 (talk) 12:07, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Firefox looks good. IE9 is not wrapping, but IE9 in compatibility view (which should emulate IE8) does wrap. Letme get a consult. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 12:24, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I have an expert looking at this. Give us a bit. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:31, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Edokter, we have a fix. When there is an image in a list classed with hlist, IE 7+ does some odd stuff with wrapping; adding a non-breaking space before the image fixes the problem. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:52, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * My browser renders the templates correctly now. So the problem is with the browser, not the syntax. Shuipzv3 (talk) 20:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Downloading a photo of Athenic.
Still can't fathom out how to do this despite the answers to my initial question. Would someone be kind enough to talk me through it, or tell me how to send e.mail to "talk" ? Many thanks Rich — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.227.5 (talk) 11:07, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Navigate to the image page and place your cursor on it;
 * 2) Right-click (if on a mac without a magic mouse, click while holding down ctrl);
 * 3) Click "Save Picture As" from the dropdown menu that opens;
 * 4) In the Save Picture dialogue box, browse to the folder where you want to save the file, and then click Save.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:20, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Unable to enter site directly
For the last 18 plus hours when I try to enter Wikipedia by typing the address I am automatically re-directed to: inforewardsurvey.com/?sov=121346. Is there anyway to get this fixed?Foxissis (talk) 11:07, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The address you need is en.wikipedia.org . Use copy+paste from here to make sure that you are spelling it right, and then bookmark the link so that you don't have to type it in future. See the article typosquatting; some less-than-helpful sites have been set up at common misspellings of the wikipedia domain names. -- John of Reading (talk) 11:35, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * If you are correctly entereing the URL, then your computer may have been infected with malware. See Reference desk/Computing/Viruses. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 11:37, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Eva marcille pigford
'Eva's bio indicates that her father is a black puerto rican. That is untrue. Her father was born in Seattle. I think this error is because his mother moved to Puerto Rico when she retired from the phone company in northern California. So people made assumptions. I am Eva's mother, and Evan is her father, my husband. He has had a stroke, so he cannot update this error.

Michelle Pigford — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.248.15.13 (talk) 13:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * That content was unsourced so I have removed it per Wikipedia's biographies of living persons policy. – ukexpat (talk) 14:20, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I can understand the policy, BUT: Given that this is allegedly from Eva's mother, and quite possibly true, shouldn't it at least be given the dignity of being moved to the article's Talk page? GeorgeTSLC (talk) 16:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Not sure that's necessary - it's in the article's history. – ukexpat (talk) 18:58, 23 February 2012 (UTC). Addendum - and talk pages are equally subject to the BLP. – ukexpat (talk) 20:40, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Copying text out of an Abuse Filter log entry?
A bot reported this Abuse Filter log entry at WP:AIV (sorry, it's marked as private, so you'll only be able to view it if you're a filter manager), but several admins (including me) ended up discussing it at AIV and agreed that it was a false positive. Is there any way to copy the whole change to the article? I took the "New page wikitext, after the edit" section and previewed it, and because it lacks line breaks, the result was gibberish. I know that I can copy/paste from up top, where the changes are actually shown, but the edit in question is so massive that it would take quite a long time to remove all of the plus signs and other things that appear on this screen but not in the edit itself. I'm looking for some way (e.g. an option in the abuse filter that I've missed) to get just the code of the page as it would have been if the filter hadn't blocked it. Nyttend (talk) 14:06, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I haven't found a way to get the text directly. The html source of the edit filter log contains the text with line breaks, but it has changed many special charaters to html codes such as  to  . They have to be changed back to become working wikitext. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:48, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Need help making this page work
Hello, I am doing a school project and need to get this page up and running but I can seem to get it up and running. Any help editing or ideas on how to make it better would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

The Sales Factory — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.162.7.178 (talk) 15:08, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Currently it looks like the article is intended to promote something, which is not te purpose of an article here. If there are independent, third-party news articles discussing this company, then it might go towards establishing its notability. -- McDoob  AU  93  15:24, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * In addition, the 90% of the article is a copyright violation of the company's website. You have to write it in your words, not just copy someone elses's. Singularity42 (talk) 15:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note that The Sales Factory has been deleted, and a similarly named The sales factory has been nominated for speedy deletion. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:30, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * ... and there was a previous attempt Thesalesfactory which was deleted too. Continually recreating with slightly different names tends to be frowned on. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The Sales Factory was recently deleted as too promotional in tone and it looks like  is headed the same way. Please take a look at the notices at the top of the article and try to deal with the issues they raise. Another question: has your teacher/professor read WP:SUP? If not, please ask them to do so as it contains useful advice for incorporating Wikipedia into the curriculum. – ukexpat (talk) 15:30, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

How do I remove the Wikipedia search
How do I remove the Wikipedia search? I have no idea how it got on my computer, and I would like to go back to a regular search engine so I can search the internet, not Wikipedia. Please help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.213.36.247 (talk) 16:00, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol_move_vote.svg Have you tried the section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia.  For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: [ click here] . I hope this helps.  TN X Man  16:04, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I guess you refer to a search field in your browser. If it has a little triangle then try clicking it. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:39, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Dab help
I just cannot do it now, but help on deciding how to get MACH figured as a dab will be appreciated. I added a link to the OS, but the 2007 game does not seem to be the thing to redir to, given the number and the operating system. If someone has the time, please make a decision. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 16:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've changed it, so that it redirects to the existing disambiguation page Mach. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  16:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Updated the hatnote to point to Mach. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 16:43, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Axioche's stub status, and similar cases.
I wrote the following on the Talk page for the Axioche article, and have since realized nobody who can give a policy response is ever likely to see it there. So I'm repeating it as edited here.

Stub-class forever

"This article relating to a Greek deity is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it."

Actually, I'm morally certain that we can't! I haven't actually seen the references, not even in translation, but EVERY indication is that all that was ever anciently said of Axioche was, in one source, that she was a nymph and the mother of Chrysippus, Bastard of Pisa, and in the other source that his mother was a nymph named Danais.

So the only means of expansion would be imaginative fiction.

Is there any hope of getting the "you can help" sentence deleted as inapplicable? Or must every very short article automatically have that line permanently attached? GeorgeTSLC (talk) 16:50, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Even if I'm wrong about Axioche, which I doubt, there are undoubtedly other such cases where the only data available amounts to a stub and any expansion would be imaginative fiction. Is there rational policy on such cases? GeorgeTSLC (talk) 16:50, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * If that article (and others you hint at) have such a small amount of data available, is the article even needed? Perhaps the information should be merged into a larger article instead. 69.105.80.135 (talk) 16:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, that might be a good option. Let's see if I can make it work! GeorgeTSLC (talk) 18:03, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I do not believe there is any policy or guideline for such cases, so consensus should be gained on how to deal with it on a case by case basis (be it removing the stub tag, deleting the article, or merging it elsewhere). Permastub gives some insight but it's just an essay.  Я ehevkor ✉  16:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Very well. I hereby move that Axioche not be labeled a stub. Do I hear a second? (This should properly be on her own Talk page, but given the infinitesimal likelihood of that being visited except as a consequence of this posting ...) GeorgeTSLC (talk) 17:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * If what you say above is true, I'd have no objections to removing the stub tag regardless. But would merging not be a viable option? Is there a logical place for the information in another article? (I am not familiar with the subject to know myself)  Я ehevkor ✉  18:08, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Changed my mind. As suggested above, I've moved the refs and the info into her son's article, and there is no longer any need for a separate article--unless somebody is fixated on having every nymph get her own little entry. And since I've broken the link to her article from Chrysippus, I just need to copy it into Pelops and the separate article will be totally orphaned and ripe for deletion. GeorgeTSLC (talk) 18:13, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Pelops done, with the oddity of having the nymph's sources as footnotes rather than in the "Ancient Sources" section. (Does that need to be cleaned up? If so, how?) Axioche is now totally orphaned. Who gets to delete it, if desired, or to relink from Pelops and Chrysippus if different action is decided on? GeorgeTSLC (talk) 18:19, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * You could make Axioche a redirect to the appropriate article? - David Biddulph (talk) 18:23, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I feel merging and redirecting is the best possible solution. If you were to remove the stub tag, at some point in the future you'd have to revert people who decided to put it back and explain yourself time and time again. - 194.60.106.17 (talk) 11:53, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

History of topic changes
In the past I have researched the following topics Trinity, Ecumenical Council and recently found there have been changes to the content.

My question is; how do I find a history of changes and who made them?

THANKS, Bill Haase — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wehaase (talk • contribs) 17:15, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Click on the "View History" tab at the top of the page. RudolfRed (talk) 17:19, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * There's more detail at Help:Page history. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:24, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Question on sources
Can playbills or brochures be used as a source for an article if they are print and not online? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.45.206.150 (talk) 17:48, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Please discuss at Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Follow the instructions on that page and give details. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 17:58, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Personalized sports jerseys, etc. sold to fans
What is the $ split/share (player & NBA, NFL, MLB, etc.)for personalized merchandise with player's name and number sold at retail?

Prushar — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prushar (talk • contribs) 18:07, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol move vote.svg Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. - David Biddulph (talk) 18:19, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Custom drop down options on special pages
Just in case anyone here would know the answer that doesn't watch VPT (and since I couldn't decide whether to post it there or here), here's a link to a question I just posted on VPT about how to customize personally special page options: WP:VPT. Thanks, Ks0stm  (T•C•G•E) 18:33, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Delete edit
In this edit the IP editor does not appear to grant the type of copyright license required by Wikimedia. How can I ask this edit be deleted, rather than just reverted? Jc3s5h (talk) 19:29, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * See Revision deletion. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 19:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Bad link
Hello,

I haven't found a specific category to report a bad link in an article. From http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Management_Professional there is a link named CAPM (Certified Associate in Project Management) but points to the article http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPM (Capital Asset Pricing Model) which deal on other subject.

Cheers, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.147.189.80 (talk) 19:35, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * This is the Help Desk for the English-language Wikipedia. I don't have the URL for our Spanish equivalent. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  21:36, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it may be here. – ukexpat (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

What to do when BRD cycle can't be made?
Okay, if you edit an article, it gets reverted causing an edit war, you post you reasoning in discussion and ask them to discuss. They refuse and continue to revert, and only respond to tell you to stop, deliver a personal attack, or - both'. They don't want to talk about and in some cases they tell you to take it to discussion, only then never create or respond to a discussion. So what are you left to do? Sarujo (talk) 19:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd follow the instructions at WP:DR. - Purplewowies (talk) 20:03, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Theres also WP:ANI. If you have acted the way you say, then you won't need to fear the WP:BOOMERANG. Editors who refuse to discuss issues when they are raised and continue to push their WP:POV are likely to be sanctioned. Mjroots (talk) 10:09, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Article on cheese
Help please! I was trying to put the article Cheese in the category called "Dairy products", but seemed to lose the categorisation. Can any one look at this article, and correct it please? Strangely enough, I just did the same thing to the article Milk and had no problems. Thank you in advance for any help, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:23, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * That category is unnecessary because Category:Cheese is a subcategory of Category:Dairy products. – ukexpat (talk) 21:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Similarly Category:Milk is also subcat of Category:Dairy products. – ukexpat (talk) 21:31, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

additional information
On your site, films shot in North Carolina http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_shot_in_North_Carolina   The Mill was left off. The Mill was shot entirely in NC. Most of it filmed in Landis, NC Ralph Singleton (Clear and Present Danger, Last Man Standing, Murder at 1600 etc) was the producer. Thanks for your time and help. ZaztheOne (talk) 21:29, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Category:Films shot in North Carolina is a category applied to existing articles. There is no existing article that I could find about a movie entitled The Mill, hence it does not appear in that category. – ukexpat (talk) 21:33, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * A Wikipedia editor adds an article to a category by adding code such as  to the bottom of the article; there is no way to add an article that does not exist yet, in contrast to our list articles. If you believe the film meets our criteria for inclusion listed at Notability (films) and have a reliable source to cite (note that we do not consider IMDB a reliable source), you can go to Article wizard and write the article, or you can request that another editor write it at Requested articles. PleaseStand (talk) 02:29, 24 February 2012 (UTC)