Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 January 21

= January 21 =

wiki and censorship
It took me 20 minutes to figure out how to contact Wikipedia. That is my first issue. My second is that Wiki doesn't have any control or support over their own content. So who the heck are you, anyway? Get off your high horse - the internet NEEDS TO BE REGULATED, and since you refuse to take part in it, then someone else has to do it. I will never look up anything on wikipedia again. Copyright infringement is a huge issue, and perhaps if you had anything worth stealing you would agree. As far as being censored, YOU censor people's material, so why the hipocracy????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.161.160.10 (talk) 00:12, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you had bothered to actually read what we were protesting, you'd have seen that wasn't our issue with it. The problem is that it would give far too much power to the government to shut down websites on a whim.  We don't censor people here, and telling us to get off our high horse during a rant like that seems a bit like hypocrisy (note the correct spelling) to me. The Blade of the Northern Lights  ( 話して下さい ) 00:16, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've done a fair amount of internet chat group moderating in the past and got quite used to quickly responding to this kind of interaction with a "Group hug!" suggestion. In this case, I think not. SOPA is a right little trouble maker, isn't it? (rhetorical)  fredgandt  01:13, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Internet Legislation
I'm sure you folks must have a detailed analysis of the pending internet legislation to which you take exception. I'm interested in it relative to Congressional elections this fall. As I'm sure you recognize most political discussion these days is done in the form of generalities, assertions and the like. Even the NYTimes, NPR, CPB are really not that helpful.

I was thinking you must have an annotated copy of the bills with the problems indicated concerning each section or provision. If you can send me a copy or refer me to a site with that information it would be much appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.168.147 (talk) 01:25, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * We don't, and given that it is presently shelved you're unlikely to find such. — Jeremy  v^_^v  Bori! 07:16, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

This is an awkward question...
Okay, so I have to give a demonstration to a class on how to remove vandalism from a Wikipedia page. Since I rarely manage to happen upon vandalism that I could legitimately fix as a demonstration, I was wondering if it would be legitimate to create an alternate account and create an "article" in a user subpage to vandalize and un-vandalize for the demonstration (I have reasons for not wanting to use my main account in this demonstration). It would likely be the only edits the account that gets used would make. Thanks for any help. - Purplewowies (talk) 06:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Sock puppetry does not list demonstration as a legitimate use, so I'm not exactly sure. It might be legitimate since sock puppetry is meant to disrupt other editors, which I know you're not trying to do, but you might want to carry your question over to an administrator or get live help via IRC. Bulldog73 talk da contribs  go rando 07:10, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Perhaps one of the test environments would work better than Wikipedia itself? -- John of Reading (talk) 09:17, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * You can set up a Sandbox in your own user space where you can do pretty much whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the userspace rules or damage the project. Roger (talk) 11:41, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Verification of edit, ramifications
Please forgive we. This whole experience is new for me. I am able to edit info in the encyclopedia ? Theoritically, I can edit for instance a celebrity bio. Would this be anonymous? For instance, if someone was a licensed professional who treated some obscure celebrity years ago, and public records could confirm the subject received the treatment would there be issues regarding ethics and confidentiality for the professional who provided the treatment? Would the authors anonymity through his wiki membership relieve him or her, or relinquished them from any liabilities? Would potential legalities be obsolved by ones anonymous membership? I hate to sound so legalistic. Please advise. I hope my question makes sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asaspurgion (talk • contribs) 06:51, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't understand it in its entirety, but here's the major points to what I can understand:
 * On Wikipedia, all users (registered or not) leave a calling card in the form of their IP address; registered and logged-in users have it hidden by default (and the Foundation's privacy policy forbids giving it out except in circumstances where the Foundation is legally obligated to do so).
 * The whole question about ethics for professionals providing medical treatment for a celebrity is outside Wikipedia's remit, especially because no professional worth his salt would willingly reveal such a thing, and certainly not to Wikipedia. Those that did would be apt to have their medical licenses jeopardized should a lawsuit arise and Wikipedia be subpoenaed for the information (see point 1 above).
 * Using a registered account to edit doesn't abrogate the ethics code of one's profession, largely because, at least in the case you provide, the revelation of such information would breach doctor-patient confidentiality.
 * Lastly, edits adding unsourced information about any living person anywhere on Wikipedia are subject to our biographical policy and are liable to be removed on sight. In particularly egregious or persistent circumstances, the editor may find his username and/or his IP address blocked. — Jeremy  v^_^v  Bori! 07:02, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Here is another reply partly overlapping Jeremy's: Your edits are openly identified with your login name (or your IP address if you were not logged in). Wikipedia would not voluntarily reveal the correspondence between your login name and your IP address, but a court order could force Wikipedia to reveal that correspondence and could force your ISP to reveal the correspondence between the IP address and your computer. The subjects of all articles must be notable by our standards (so a subject could not be too obscure, or the article would be deleted). All content of articles must be verifyable by references to published reliable sources (or the content should be deleted). —teb728 t c 07:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

What is the standard heading of a "used in further works" section ?
The English http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilliput_and_Blefuscu article describes the corresponding parts of Gulliver's Travels. Stirred into that description are descriptions of a 1958 novel about a "modernized Lilliput". The passages describing the novel should be consolidated in a separate section at the end of the article. That is the presentation style I have seen in other Wikipedia articles.

There is a particular standard heading for that "used in further works" section that I can't remember. Could someone please point me to a example page ?

Stuart Clayton 07:03, 21 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stuart.clayton.22 (talk • contribs)


 * I'm not sure if I get exactly what you mean, but some suggestions from other articles I've encountered: "Adaptations", "In popular culture", "Adaptations and influences", "Related works", "Books", and "Later uses".--  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   11:11, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

how to make a new ad?
i want to make an ad but i just dont know how to. you would guess that i am new well, i am, so please can you give me the instruction on my talk page. Oscar45596524 (talk) 07:32, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * This is Wikipedia, an online encyclopaedia - it isn't a free advertising site. If you want to advertise, do it elsewhere. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:43, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Though, based on his contributions, this user may be looking to advertise a WikiProject he created. - Purplewowies (talk) 07:49, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

When will wiki articles be available in audio, click and listen rather than read.. like an audiobook?
When will wiki articles be available in audio, click and listen rather than read.. like an audiobook? I'd listen! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.124.88.18 (talk) 07:47, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * See WP:SPAR for a list of articles with spoken versions. If an article you want to read has an audio version, there will be a little speaker in the upper right corner of the article. - Purplewowies (talk) 07:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Add aspect from, Special:FeedbackDashboard onto my userpage
Hi, I would like to add the Top Responders section of Special:FeedbackDashboard onto User:Garemoko

Is that possible? How can I do it?

Garemoko (talk) 08:20, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know whether there is a satisfactory solution for this. I tried to transclude the page onto another page (see this revision in my sandbox), but it doesn't look very nice. From this MediaWiki page I guess the FeedbackDashboard is not a normal Wiki page, so I don't know whether something like transcluding the page and while keeping its original appearance is possible at all. I think it is a special feature of the MediaWiki software. You could ask at WP:VPT if there is another solution to achieve what you desire. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 18:58, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for trying. I think your answer is correct and this is unsolvable. Garemoko (talk) 08:27, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Life Raft Debate wikipedia page copyright issues
I posted the wikipedia page called "Life Raft Debate" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Raft_Debate) using material from a web page I own and am the sole author of: http://www.citizensformontevallo.com/liferaft. I think this means the material is not copyrighted. However, there is a "investigation of potential copyright violation" notice on the page. How do address this issue?

Mfpatton (talk) 08:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Since you are the author, control the webpage, and do not intend to claim copyright, the simplest thing to do would be to post a notice on the webpage that it is released into the public domain. The article, however, might not pass Wikipedia's notability requirement. —teb728 t c 09:34, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Capitals
Should the word "Sobriquet" be in caps? When you say "XxX is known by the "sobriquet" YyY", it sort of becomes confusing when you use it.  X.One   SOS  09:23, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Although article names are case sensitive, and all article names must begin with a capital, you do not need to capitalize the first letter of a reference to an article title: sobriquet is the same as Sobriquet, if that is what you mean. —teb728 t c 09:38, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Paul Norton Musician Australia
I am new i dont have enough sources on this musician i have a site reference bio page www.paulnorton.com.au/bio.htm He is notable for number 2 hit "'Stuck on you" in 1988 ...record company Mushroom records≈≈≈≈ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Csnu5 (talk • contribs) 09:51, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid the website of the musician is not considered a reliable source as it is a primary source. Though it can be used to verify non-controversial information, you need to find more third-party reliable sources that have significant coverage of the artist. Offline sources like paper magazines, newspapers, and books are also acceptable. It's understandably harder to find sources for 80's artists though, but the more sources you have, the better the chances of the article being retained.


 * I checked WP:BAND and he seems to meet the second criterion for notability ("Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart."), thus he can have an article. But again you need another source to confirm that one (or more?) of his songs entered the Australian charts.


 * I found the following sources that might help: Australian-charts.com and this concert flyer--  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   10:29, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Random Article
Hi,

I love the random article function as i have it bring up an article every time i open my browser. However I am startimg to get annoyed with it now as it more often than not brings up some rubbish article or something I really don't care about. Is there any way you can create a random article button where you can choose a category. For instance - a random place in the world.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.25.185 (talk) 10:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * There is a tool at User talk:GregU/randomlink.js. I haven't tested it myself, but the documentation says it adds a random article link related to an article you are currently viewing, so this might be more like what you want. However you will have to register an account in order to use it. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 12:19, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * There is also http://toolserver.org/~erwin85/randomarticle.php which does not require an account. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:15, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * See WP:RANDOM. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:29, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Mass flow estimation
Can anyone tell me how to find the mass flow through the turbojet engine under static condition? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.137.17.78 (talk) 10:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * [[Image:P physics.svg|20px]] This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Science reference desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link and ask away. You could always try  for an article related to the topic you want to know more about.  I hope this helps.--   Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   11:23, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Search Results
Why have you changed the way results are posted when we search for topics.Use to be when we did search we found direct links to the sires and were able to find what we were looking for.Now we are taken to the Askme site and the results we need are not there for us.Example would be looking up a show like Married With Children we use to find the link to where all the information was posted and we were able to click on it and then what we were looking for within that site.The new system you have now is impossible to work with and I see it as a very hard research site for students of all ages trying to do find items for their homework. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.151.143.144 (talk) 12:59, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * This is a help desk for the encyclopedia Wikipedia. We have a search box at the top of every page but it only searches within Wikipedia. It sounds like you are referring to a search function in your browser or at another site unrelated to Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:08, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * It sounds to me as though you may have accidentally installed an add-on to your browser. Try uninstalling it, or try asking this question at the Computering help desk, giving full details of your browser and operating system.--Shantavira|feed me 14:48, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Category conflict
Trying to find appropriate categories for my nascent articles, I find we have a Category:Birmingham Canal Navigations and a Category:History of Birmingham, West Midlands. Some articles are in both categories, some in only one. Is there an argument for everything in the former category to also be included in the latter category, and keeping the categories completely separate? Or would it be better if the former category were made a subcategory of the latter? Or something else?--Shantavira|feed me 14:43, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Supplementary question: what makes an article "historical"?--Shantavira|feed me 15:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

old help request, done, thanks
I'd very much like help with if possible. Penyulap  talk 16:55, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * See WP:IOWN for the proper procedure for dealling with this. -- Jayron  32  17:04, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * See also There is no deadline. —teb728 t c 18:04, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * thank you. Penyulap   talk 19:51, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Looking for policy on redirects
I've looked at MOS:Redirect, the archives and the FAQs (not exhaustively), and I'm still puzzled. Is it okay to set up redirect when the original search term never appears in the target article? When I encounter this situation, it feels like an error. Months ago, I looked up a particular term, got redirected, page-searched the target article, and had no idea why the redirect was established. On that one I did some research, left talk messages for editors, and wound up adding a sentence for anyone who followed the same path. I've seen this many times since, with varying severity. Can/should the redirect be removed, if there's nothing to tell the user why the redirect exists? I'd love to have an MOS or FAQ entry for guidance. Thanks -- Jo3sampl (talk) 18:47, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt there'd be any policy or guideline supporting this situation. Things like this are usually dealt with on an individual basis. Is there are a more plausible target for the redirect? Might be best to be bold and just change the redirect yourself. Knowing what redirect it is would help also.  Я ehevkor ✉  18:55, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If the subject is discussed, the redirect is generally acceptable, even if those specific words don't appear in the article. But if the subject is not discussed, that can be grounds to retarget or delete.  For broader input, you can take it to redirects for discussion, but note that any decision made there will be generally be binding, and they could make a decision that you don't agree with.  -- N  Y  Kevin  @939, i.e. 21:32, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks!! -- Jo3sampl (talk) 21:51, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

i was looking for information about Barack Hussein Obama, Sr.
[Under (known for)] on Barack page he is only know for being the father of his son our president I don't think that is good information or nice. Would like to see if some can make his links for [know for] so people can see his. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.205.246.242 (talk) 19:28, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. has lots of information about him. The infobox at the top right says "Known for Father of U.S. President Barack Obama". Infoboxes are intended to only mention a few key facts. He is by far best known for this so I think it makes sense to only mention this in that particular infobox field. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:23, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * 72.205.256.242 may or may not have a relevent point, however this is not the correct venue to raise the issue. Please post the above critque at Talk:Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., which is the correct place to discuss content in that article.  -- Jayron  32  20:51, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Shangri-La Correlation
I was reading the wiki about Shangri-La and I realized that a portion was missing. I want to edit the page but I dont want to mess up. How can I edit the page to correct the mistake without making an error? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.32.134.209 (talk) 19:53, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * First place to start would be Help:Editing then get some practice at a Sandbox. Come back here to ask for further help.  fredgandt  19:55, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Although actually, you'd edit the article in much the same way as you edited this page.  fredgandt 
 * This page is actually unusual by having a link saying "If you can't find an answer, click here to ask a new question." Normally you edit a page by clicking the "Edit" tab or one of the "edit" links at section headings (this page can also be edited in that way). PrimeHunter (talk) 20:12, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Re-editing request of Lurs article at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurs)
Dear Sir,

Several times I tried to correct the article under title 'Lurs' in the Wiki English page. But each time I correct the false information at article; they've been deleted by a Wiki's author called Winter Gaze.

Sir,

I am against racism but it seems your author called Winter Gaze smells like a racist. Today we may call Lurs just as Lurs. No need to force them feel as Kurds nor Persian. Lurs are just Lurs. But we can not deny their historical ties with Kurds. As given information below there are many ties and connections between Lurs and Kurds. Nonetheless, Paul Ludwig writes that linguistics does not provide a definition for when a language becomes a dialect, and thus, non-linguistic factors contribute to the ethnic unity of some of namely the Lur, Kurmanj, Kalhur, and Guran.

Today there are two main dialects spoken by Lurs in Loristan. First is Luri and Second is Laki. Laki dialect is very lose to Kurdish and is spoken nearly by half of Lurs. They no not deny their ties with Kurds. Genetical researches done on Lurs show that they are closer to Kurds.

Sir,

If you make a researh on the internet you will find a lot of information regarding Lurs and their connection and ties with the Kurds. Here I will give you some samples for this. I would like to start from Wiki resources:

In Wiki Turkish page it says that they are a Kurdish branch:

'Lurlar (Farsça: لر Lor), Batı İran'da Luristan, Huzistan, Hamedan, Çaharmahal ve Bahtiyari, İsfahan ve İlam eyaletlerinde yaşayan Kürt halkının kollarından biridir.'

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lur

In Wiki Kurdish page it says that the Lurs divided apart from Kurds and lately become known as Lurs and their Language mixed a lot with Persian Language.

'Lor anku Lur, îro navê gelekî li navbera Fars û Kurdistanê ye. Şerefxan Bedlîsî gelê Lor li ser Kurdan dijmerê, Kurdolog Izady wî yekî qenat tînê, li gorî wî Lor di sedsala 16 de ji kurdan qetîyanê û bûnê gelekî serbixwe. Lêbelê zimanê Lurî wê demê weke zaravêyekî Farsî tê dîtîn. Lûr jî bi piranî xwe gelekî serbixwe dibînin, lêbelê Lure ku xwe li Kurda an jî Farsa dijmerin jî hene. Gelek çavkaniyan dibêje aslê Lor diçe Kurdan.'

http://ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lur

A 16th century of Kurdish historan in his histroical Book Sharafnama gives information on Lurs and stresses they are Kurdish origin. He states that there are one of four division of Kurds: Kurmanj, Lur,Kalhur and Guran, each of which speak a different dialect or language variation.

Wiki: 'The Sharafnama divides its history into four parts. The first one deals with the five Kurdish dynasties that have enjoyed status as royalty (Saltant): the Marwanids of Amed, the Hasanwayhids ofDinavar and Sharizur, the Fadluyids of the Great Lur, the princes of little Lur, and finally, Saladin the Great and the Ayyubids.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharaf_Khan_Bidlisi

Wiki English page in article under Lak people (Iran) says:

The Laks are an Iranian group in southwestern Iran. They speak Laki (or Leki), a Northwestern Iranian language, that is usually grouped with Southern Kurdish dialects.[1][2][3][4] It is important to note that many Laki-speaking communities identify as Kurds and many scholars continue to classify Laks as ethnic Kurds.

Many scholars as well as Laks themselves consider Laks as ethnically Lur.[7] There has been much debate over ethnic identity of the Laks throughout the twentieth century. Zayn al-‘Ābidīn Shīrvānī, the writer of the Persian geographic work Bustān al-siyāha (“The Garden of the travel”) in 19th century introduces the Laks as a Lur tribe. In our own times, the Persian writer Īzadpanāh about laks, the writer of the Lurii-Persian dictionary, emphasizes the Luri identity of the Laks and calls it a misunderstanding to consider the Laks as Kurds. Vladimir Minorsky, who wrote the entry "Lak" in the first edition of the Encyclopaedia of Islam, referred to the Lak as "the most southern group of Kurd tribes in Persia" and stated that their language has the characteristics of Kurdish.[8] Some of the Lak tribes live in Lorestān Province, among Lur tribes, although Minorsky quotes some evidence that they were brought there from further north. He mentions that they are often confused with the Lur, but are different.[8] The Bajilan are one of the more prominent Lak tribes. There is a tribe of the same name east of Mosul, but whereas Minorsky believes the Bajilan of Zohab had come from Mosul,[8] the later scholar D.N. MacKenzie believed the Bajalan or Bajwan of Mosul to be an offshoot of the much larger Zohab Bajilan.[9]

In Academic Kids it says:

Ethnologists classify the Lurs as aboriginal Iranians, closely related to the Kurds. As stated above, their language, called Luri, is closely related to Persian, and there are two distinct dialects of this language. Lur-e-Bozourg (Greater Lur), which is spoken by the Bakhtiaris, and Lur-e-Kuchik (Lesser Lur), spoken by the Lurs themselves

http://academickids.com/encyclopedia/index.php/Lurestan

In Encyclopedia Britannica it says:

Lur, any member of a mountain Shīʿite Muslim people of western Iran numbering more than two million. The Lurs live mainly in the provinces of Lorestān, Bakhtīārī, and Kohgīlūyeh va Būyer Aḥmad. Their main languages are Luri and Laki. Luri, which has northern and southern variants, is closely related to Persian, while Laki is more nearly related to Kurdish. Still other Lurs speak Bakhtyārī, which is mutually intelligible with Luri. The Lurs are thought to be of aboriginal stock, with strong Iranian, Arabic, and other admixtures.

In Cultural Survival it says:

Most Lurs speak an Iranian dialect known as Luri; however, nearly half the Lurs of Luristan province speak Laki, another Iranian dialect. The Luri dialect is closer to Persian while Laki is closer to Kurdish.

In http://fasa-eeg.blogfa.com it also in http://www.uandmyfuture.blogfa.com/post-2754.aspx says:

LUR TRIBES They are probably the most intact tribes of Iran, retaining their robustness, virility, and tall stature. They are mostly cultivators and shepherds and occupy the high grounds of Lurestan, south of Kurdestan, and Kermanshah provinces. The Lursare thought to be a division of the ancient Kurds, both tribes being considered true descendants of the Medes. The Mamasani Lurs dwelling in western mountains of Fars form one of the most important clans.

In Faili Kurds web page it says:

The following ideas will be discussed: - There are those who see the Faili as part of the large Kurdish population - Those who believe that the Faili is Lur / Lorr with no ethnic ties to the Kurds - Faili Kurds is the origin of Kurds, ethnic and linguistic - Lurs are not Kurds - Kurds are Lur / Lorr

The theories are many. I as Faili Kurd sees us as Lor, and consider the Lor/lur a non-divisible part of the Kurdish people. Historical evidence of how close ties Lurs have to Kurdistan and Kurds are many. Mr. Erik Jhon Anonby in his article called 'Kurdish or Luri?' says:

Conclusion This article has attempted to address issues of ethnicity and linguistic affiliation of the peoples commonly called »Laki.« Both topics remain uncertain as concerns Posht-e Kuh Laki, but the status of Pish-e Kuh Laki has been clarified in the present study. While members of the latter group have at times been considered ethnically Kurdish or Laki, they in fact define themselves as Lurs. The genetic affiliation of their language, which has also been the object of contradictory accounts, has been located within the Northwestern family of Iranian languages. Pish-e Kuh Laki is thus more closely related to Kurdish than to the Luri languages.

At Faylee (Fayli) Kurds page it says:

Who Are Fayli Kurds and where do they live? Fayli (Faylee, Faili, or Feli) Kurds are, as their name tells, an inseparable segment of the Kurdish population in Iraq and an integral part of the Kurdish nation, which is divided among many countries in the Middle East, mainly Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. Fayli Kurds have themselves shown, over the years, and still show this fact and reality by words and deeds. They speak a dialect that belongs to the southern Kurdish dialect called Luri which is spoken in the southern areas of Kurdistan proper, particularly on both sides of the border areas between Iraq and Iran. [1]

However, all Kurds speaking this dialect are not called Fayli [2]. One can say that Kurds speaking this dialect and living in and around Baghdad as well as some cities and towns in eastern and southern Iraq are called Fayli. There are many and diverse explanations for why these Kurds are called “Fayli”; however there is no plausible, well documented and generally convincing or accepted one.

Fayli Kurds in Iraq have lived mainly in Baghdad (largely in the Kurdish Quarter (Agdelkrad, a Ghetto) and when they became better off economically they moved to more affluent areas, such as Etefiya, Jamila and Shari’ Falastin) and in lesser numbers in towns and cities near the borders with Iran from as north as south of the historically and demographically Kurdish city of Kirkuk to as far south as north of the southern city of Basra. [3] On the Iranian side of the borders, Fayli Kurds (though not referred to by this name) live in the provinces of Kirmashan and Ilam and southward though not called Fayli Kurds. Since the mass expulsions from Iraq in the seventies and eighties there is a large number of Fayli Kurds in Tehran as well.

[1] Fayli Kurds are Muslims and the vast majority of them are of the Shiite faith.

[2] A distinction must be made between Fayli Kurds from Khanaqin, Mandali and surrounding areas that are within or in proximity of the southern end of the Kurdistan Region in Iraq and Fayli Kurds living in Baghdad and other cities and towns in central and southern Iraq inhabited by an Arab majority. The former have suffered from forcible internal displacement whereas the latter have been subjected to forcible deportation to a neighboring country, namely, Iran.

[3] They live in the cities and towns of Khanaqin, Mendeli (Manali in Kurdish), Saadiya, Shahraban, Kut, Amara, Bedra, Zurbatiya, Jassan, Kumet, Sheikh Saad, Nu’mania, Hei, Rifa’i, Ali al-Sharji and Ali al-Gharbi and other towns in the central and southern parts of Iraq.

[4] Some Fayli Kurds living in close proximity to Arabs in Iraq dress themselves like Arabs but speak Kurdish and see themselves as Kurds. Among them are the Rewari and Kurdeli. The same phenomenon is observed in Kurdistan Iraq too, especially among Yezidi and Shebak Kurds and Kurds from Sinjar. [5] According to American estimates there are at present 700.000-750.000 Fayli Kurds living in Baghdad (source: personal communication after a recent visit to Baghdad). According to Ayatollah Seyid Hadi Muderrisi there are 3 million Fayli Kurds in Iraq (written statement on the still continuing injustices against Fayli Kurds, Sept 24, 2003).

http://faylee.org/articles/doc111.htm

Based on above information we can not deny Lurs ties and connection with Kurds. For that, I insist of reediting of Lurs article in Wiki.

Please do not give the right of editing the article of Lurs only and only to the Wiki's editor/author so called Winter Gaze as it will not be fair.

Sincerely Yours,

Bave Sherko

21.01.2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.184.231.173 (talk) 20:16, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe you'd be best served by taking your issue to Dispute resolution noticeboard.  fredgandt  20:46, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * This is not the correct venue to raise these issues. Please try Talk:Lurs. If, after some days of discussion among the editors there, you do not reach a satisfactory resolution, please see Dispute resolution. -- Jayron  32  20:48, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I would add to the advice of Fred Gandt and Jayron that you should read WP:AGF and WP:NPA. It is not only Winter Gaze who reverts your edits; you are being reverted by several editors. They revert you correctly because you do not cite reliable sources, your sources do not support your content, or you remove sourced content. Note that Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source. —teb728 t c 21:02, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Sir, Be honest and tell me that you have read my entire article. I am 100% sure that you did not. Not even checked my given references? Yes I tried to resolve the problem in the Talk area but nothing has changed. For that reason alternatively I tried it here that it could make any sense.

Yes, -for that I am a novice at Wiki- I may lead some mistakes in my attempts to try to correct the articles but it doesn't change the necessity of changing the current article. Because it is not relaying on the facts. And I think I tried the Dispute resolution. But I think my request has been deleted. Let's say I am a novice and I am a rude person. Does that gives you the right to continue to publish wrong information regarding Lurs. As you mentioned above that several editors reverted my articles, you and all other editors believe that I was totally wrong in my articles? And, this happened after reading my entire articles and given references, none even one of my words was true? What do you mean exactly? Am I inventing history by myself? You mean my whole attempts were relied on lies? Did the editors and you read my references? If not satisfied, did you get the books that were given as references?

What do you mean by satisfactory resolution exactly? So, you want me to believe a student desertation texts which written by Limbert, John? Or want me to beleive a Turkish guy Hakan Ozglu that he is making demagogy regarding Luristan map. He and I we well know that in Ottoman era Luristan was attaching to Kurdistan. All maps are in the Turkish Libraries. You may not believe me then you better have a visit to Istanbul and visit Turkish National Library to see by your eyes. Of course now-days Luristan wont attach to Kurdistan because there is no country so called Greater Kurdistan. Even that, Today Lurs become a free nation.

You mean you do not satisfy with Vladimir Minorsky's books and articles? Or with articles from Oscar Mann? And you don't believe Sharaf Khan Bidlisi, a 16th century historian? Did you read his book Sharafnama? So you mean he is also lying? For the sake of God. All these are expert people that made rehearses regarding Kurds, Persians and Lurs. Do the editor Winter Gaze and the others know that Sharafnama was written in 16th century and is a history book? So, you are treating his book as phony lies?

Even that. I am asking you. Why info regarding Lurs in the Wiki Turkish and in the Wiki Kurdish are differing from the Wiki in English? I am asking you. Which one is true? Rather Wiki Turkish and Kurdish must be wrong or rather Wiki English? So, whenever I tried to correct the main idea of the Turkish text you wont let me to change it? You are so confusing.... In fact to me, lazy people to read.

Anyway I am not working for the Wiki and it is not necessity for me to do so. I believe what I believe and you do what you want. I just wanted to put the things on its way and I could not success it in your pages.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.96.155.137 (talk) 21:13, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * This Help desk is for questions on how to use and edit Wikipedia; it is not the place to discuss article content. Like all articles the Lurs article is controlled by a consensus of editors, including you. If you want to change article content, you need to influence the consensus at the article talk page, Talk:Lurs. —teb728 t c 07:18, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

george washington meditation/dark in 1906 Ency. Brit.
Have not found the usual request for info on this cite. So post here. Wish to add that an old 1906 Encyclopedia Britanica mentions that George Washington would rest naked in the dark in his room on the floor. He was obviously doing a introspective thing like meditation. I thought this was very interesting and illustrates his composite personality nicely. This was probably not regarded as an eastern practice but as a search for quietude and peace with source to rearrange a perspective. Perhaps a European technique. At Harvard wrestling was bare bodied up through the 50's from Roman model. The naked meditation could stem from similar tradition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.174.196 (talk) 20:37, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, are you asking how to add this information to a specific article? If so, you should just edit the article to add the info.  If you're having trouble citing this, please see WP:REFB.  If you're having a disagreement with another editor over this, please discuss it on the article's talk page, accessed by going to the article and clicking the "Talk" tab at the top of the page.  Do not simply re-add the info repeatedly; you may be blocked if you do so.  If you can't come to an agreement, please follow the dispute resolution process.  -- N  Y  Kevin  @946, i.e. 21:41, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Problem with editing
Would you please supply me with more exact information as to what the problem is with this article. I have rewritten it several times and have included at least 10 realiable third-party souces, such as websites on the Interenet and magazine articles from well-known publications. Yet you continue to say that it lacks references, this is most frustrasting and unhelpful. If it lacks these sources please tell me why and how to fix it!

At this point I am totally confused as to what exactly the problem is and how to fix it. Could you please write me with a more detailed explanation of what needs to be changed and how.

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard fletcher (talk • contribs) 21:59, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * In order:
 * You shouldn't be editing about yourself, period.
 * MusicalAmerica's report (Ref 1) is a press release and thus not a reliable source because it comes from the subject himself. (We require practically all sources to not come from the subject because subjects tend to aggrandize themselves or exaggerate their accomplishments.)
 * Wordpress (Ref 2) is a blog and thus not a reliable source whatsoever.
 * User-generated content sites (Ref 3) are not reliable sources because they are user-generated content sites.
 * Operabase (Ref 4) only proves he exists, not that he's notable. There's a significant difference.
 * You are not citing the actual publications in References 6 and 7.
 * Lists of names (references 5, 8, 9, and 10) are not reliable sources for notability purposes either, especially if they're maintained by the subject's employer(s). — Jeremy  v^_^v  Bori! 22:16, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Need help on Interlanguage links
About the articles mandarin orange and tangerine, the Interlanguage links on them are in a mess. I cannot read most of the foreign languages listed there, but it seems: So what can I do to deal with this problem, and review all related wikipages (on any other languages, if possible)? At least the Interlanguage links should be cleaned and relinked first. Thanks for reading my long-winded complaint with so much patience... --LunarShaddowღIvy (talk) 23:25, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sometimes the links on these two articles are the same. (a.k.a. lead to the same foreign page.)
 * Many links on tangerine have the prefix of Mandari-, which suggest the potential problems there.
 * On some languages, the pages linked mark both these two as Citrus reticulata (the Binomial name used in biology), which is obviously an error.
 * If I just correct the errors on enwiki, zhwiki and frwiki (all the languages I currently handle) and eliminate every unsuitable links on my behalf, it seems the bots will soon spread out the error again and spoil the whole wiki projects like cancer.
 * Are you sure they are errors, i.e. that the other languages all have distinct words for these? Not all languages make the same distinctions Do you know there are languages that use the same word for such utterly different relationships as 'elder brother' and 'younger brother'? Isn't that weird! --ColinFine (talk) 00:29, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought when it comes to some biology things, there should be some difference, since at least in every major language we should make a new name for each species in order to identify them scientifically, yes? --LunarShaddowღIvy (talk) 09:35, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Updating image content

 * This past week I have, with her permission/request, been updating the text on artist/cartoonist Carol Lay's Wikipedia page. I have revised information (weekly newspaper strips previously shown as still being published, now show as having ended publication), added to her Biography (citation of extended interview about her early works, stylistic development)(mention of extending out-of-print works to ebook Kindle format), and adding to her Bibliography (cataloging the last two years of publications).
 * I now need to update the images on the page by replacing the present photograph with a more recent public photograph of her, and by correcting the caption on a cartoon, already on her page as a "self-portrait", with the image's correct title "Meeting Place". I have the image of the former on my computer but, this being my first time, am still confused how to get it from there to here.  The latter I uploaded to Wiki Commons, but am now uncertain how to get it to its proper place.
 * Any help would be appreciated.Tooslowglass (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:44, 21 January 2012 (UTC).


 * You can link to a commons image in exactly the same way as one links to an image stored at Wikipedia. So  will produce the same result, whether uploaded and stored to/at Wikipedia or commons. I find the best way to learn how to do any editing is to find examples of what I want to acheive, then practice at my Sandbox (using the preview button first), then finally saving to verify that I've got it right. You can create your own sandbox right here.  f<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">red</i>g<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">andt</i>  00:05, 22 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I've corrected your attempt. The only file you have uploaded to commons is now showing on the article.  f<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">red</i>g<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">andt</i>  00:19, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Please be aware that Wikipedia's rules on biography of living persons, neutrality and conflict of interest are what governs whether material in an article is suitable, not the subject's permission. Information about the subject that has appeared in an independent reliable source may occur in the article, and information which hasn't so appeared should not do so, irrespective of the subject's preference. --ColinFine (talk) 00:40, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Me?  f<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">red</i>g<i style="color:#0dd;font-size:10px;">andt</i>  00:46, 22 January 2012 (UTC)