Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 July 22

= July 22 =

What should I do to do edits like a bot &mdash; any restrictions?
Hello again! V ani s che numTalk 01:54, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there is any restriction to do minor bot-like edits manually. For example, I want to place interlanguage links, repeatedly (by myself and not using programs).
 * Is it legitimate to start a new account (a maintenance account) just to keep such repeated edits out of the contributions of the main account. (No editing except placing templates, language links etc.)


 * Maintenance tasks are specifically permitted under Sock puppetry (despite the imposing page title); the other limitations and restrictions on the page still apply, so read them thoroughly. Dru of Id (talk) 02:03, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * There is certainly no restriction on performing maintenance tasks that are normally carried out by bots. So long as you're helping and not hindering (e.g. by confusing a bot with non-orthodox formatting), you are more than welcome to do such tasks manually. WP:Multiple Accounts lists the circumstances under which editing using more than one account is permitted. One such circumstance reads "Maintenance: An editor might use an alternative account to carry out maintenance tasks, or to segregate functions such as work with specific kinds of media files, so as to maintain a user talk page dedicated to the purpose. The second account should be clearly linked to the main account." You are definitely in the clear here. The best way to link your accounts is using the template. Happy editing! BigNate37(T) 02:04, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! I still have confusions; will maintenance include placing banners and interlanguagelinks? This is not for a dedicated talkpage, so is it legitimate? Will doing the inter-language link with the main account create consequences? BTW, the italicized word "maintenance" in the question is in fact copied directly from WP:Sock puppetry. To me, that part is too much technical! V ani s che numTalk 02:35, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No, there aren't consequences to doing those tasks on a main account. I've added tags and lang links to an article on more than one occasion with this account, which is really my only account. - Purplewowies (talk) 18:02, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much. Now I am going to place them. (I waited enough time for bots to do it) :) V ani s che numTalk 02:17, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Investigation of a Potential Copyright issue on our CEO's page
Dear Wiki Administrator,

This is to bring to your notice that the ‘copy right’ violation on the page below http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP_Gurnani is an unwarranted one.

The content on the page is the standard Corporate profile (http://www.mahindrasatyam.com/about-mahindra-satyam/Gurnani.asp)  of our CEO. Mr. C P Gurnani and as such his profile on the wikipage is not a copyright violation. (Ted.com would have also taken it from our corporate profile on the website.)

Would request you to remove the ‘investigation of potential copyright’ ASAP from the page.

Do mail us if you need any other clarifications. We need the page restored at the earliest, so do help!

Warm regards

The Mahindra Satyam Digital Team — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.98.55.127 (talk) 02:00, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You need to release that text under a licence suitable for use in Wikipedia: the CC-BY-SA 3.0 and GFDL. RudolfRed (talk) 02:03, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The page you linked to clearly asserts copyright: "Copyright © 2012 Satyam Computer Services Limited." Even if it didn't, copyright is assumed except where clearly waived or released as above. Dru of Id (talk) 02:07, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Copyrighted material is fine, and does not preclude the usage of a Wikipedia-compatible license. However, restrictively licensed copyrighted material is a problem, as is the case here. The terms of use for the site state "4a. No material from this site may be copied, modified, reproduced, republished, uploaded, transmitted, posted or distributed in any form without prior written permission from Mahindra Satyam. All rights not expressly granted herein are reserved." (Emphasis mine.) There are two ways to fix this: change the terms of use on the website or at least that page to a license compatible with CC-By-SA 3.0 and the GFDL; alternatively, contact WP:OTRS and inquire with them about providing permission for the text to be used on Wikipedia. Either measure must be done by the copyright holder or an agent thereof, and neither measure guarantees that we will use the content anyways. BigNate37(T) 02:15, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Are we even sure he's notable? Dismas |(talk) 02:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised no one mentioned promotional language. Usually when copyright of an "official" biography or company web site is a problem, you have to change the wording too to keep if from violating WP:NOTADVERTISING, although the page has that tag too.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:16, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Oops. After checking the history, it has that tag NOW.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:18, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Other than Peer Review, how can I request feedback on an article.
I'm working on overhauling an article and would like feedback on it, however I can't use WP:Peer Review because I'm not trying to make a Good Article a Featured Article, but rather make a C-class article into (hopefully) a good one. I've tried related wikiprojects, but none of them are active. What other channels could I go through? DavidSSabb (talk) 02:57, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Is this Appalachian State University? Dru of Id (talk) 03:15, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You can use Peer review - it's not only for GA and FA reviews. It would really help if you tell us what article this is about. Roger (talk) 06:45, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Really? If I had known that, I would have asked for a review of an article I'd been working on a long time ago. To DavidSSabb, I've seen people there ask for input on how to make an article Good all the time, so unless the article is horribly woefully bad at present (since PR says it's intended for high quality articles that have gone through extensive work), I say feel free to ask for suggestions through peer review. If not, I guess you could theoretically ask here, since the old process for asking for feedback and suggestions on edits to an article that wasn't quite up to snuff for peer review (I think the old process/page had "feedback" in the name) now redirects here. - Purplewowies (talk) 07:12, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Dru of Id guessed correctly about what article this is about. There are others I'm planning to start work on as well. I will admit that this article and others I have and plan to expand are related to me personally. But I've never violated WP:COI or WP:OWN (the second one is actually the reason I want outside assessment). I'm simply adding information to noncontroversial, lacking articles because I have a good idea of where to find sources. DavidSSabb (talk) 17:03, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Athletic logos in rivalry pages.
Recently, Image:WCU Athletic Logo.jpg was removed from the Battle for the Old Mountain Jug page for not having a good enough fair-use explanation. The article covers a rivalry involving the team with that logo. I thought that non-free athletic logos could be used under fair-use in pages discussing major rivalries to illustrate the teams involved, so I searched for an example of this I could use. However the majority of athletic logos seem to be trademarked rather than copyrighted, and the ones that are nonfree have already been removed (usually by bots). So I couldn't find an example. Could a non-free logo be used in this manner, and if so what would I put in the rationale? DavidSSabb (talk) 03:06, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think in the Battle of Alberta the mayors of each city have to wear the jersey of the winning team. You could find images like that and include them as De minimis? Battle of Ontario you may wish to look at as well. No logos in either.--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:13, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

For the record, trademarks exist separately of copyrights which are separate again from licenses. Incompatible licenses are the reason we can't use non-free images, their trademark and copyright status is generally irrelevant. BigNate37(T) 03:27, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, trademark and copyright are different forms of intellectual property protection but I don't understand the rest of of your comment. The license in this context is a copyright license so saying copyright is irrelevant, that it's incompatible licensing that's at issue, doesn't grok. Copyright is 100% the issue. If we want to use something (outside of fair use) that is copyrighted, it has to bear a free copyright license compatible with ours. If it doesn't bear such a free copyright license, then a claim of fair use may be made if the intended use meets all parts of non-free content criteria. Anyway, here the logo is copyrighted so it could only be used under a claim of fair use. I agree with the removal on the basis of not meeting WP:NFCC, which is contextual significance – whether the "presence of the logo in this article would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding". This is not an article about the team itself, where the logo the team uses is integral to an understanding of the topic. It's an article about the rivalry of two teams. Imagine, if you will, if every article about rivalry between any teams, or any other article about some activity of teams, warranted each teams' logo being displayed. This would water down the restriction of fair use too much.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 07:43, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I apologize for the misunderstanding about the difference between licence and copyright. I will say that such pages are saturated with usage of the logo, but again most of these logos appear to be public domain (ex. Michigan-Ohio State football rivalry), and I was wondering if logos licensed as non-free logos could be used in the same way. It appears from this discussion that the answer is no. DavidSSabb (talk) 17:08, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Is this actually a vandalism...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Watching_pages&oldid=450705128 Yup! I want to make sure it is as this has been sustained by the WP for almost a year.] V ani s che numTalk 09:48, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * That is clear vandalism - I reverted it. Roger (talk) 09:53, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you!

template syntax
I've been trying to get to grips with the intricacies of template syntax. Specifically, User:U+003F/TRFC squad is defined as

}}

and User:U+003F/TRFC start as

{{football squad | name = MyTeam F.C. squad | teamname = MyTeam F.C. | list =

This works when the second template is substituted, but not when transcluded. Is the issue to do with the    element, or the unmatched braces? Thanks! U+003F{{sup|?}} 11:02, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * ... or is there somewhere more specific I should take the question? U+003F{{sup|?}} 06:24, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You'd better try Village pump (technical). -- John of Reading (talk) 06:32, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * {{Moved discussion to|Village pump (technical)|2= Thanks! U+003F{{sup|<tt style="color:red">?</tt>}} 07:01, 23 July 2012 (UTC)}}

Watchlist
When I use my watchlist and click on "Hide logged-in users" or "Show logged-in users", and then click the Go button to update the watchlist, the choice (show/hide) is preserved. When I click on "Show my edits", my edits are shown, but if I after that click Go, my edits are hidden. How can I get the watchlist to preserve the choice of showing my edits when I want to update the watchlist? Iceblock (talk) 11:02, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There's a setting in Preferences: . Hope that fixes it. David  1217  What I've done 15:44, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I knew about this option, and had set it to "Hide my edits", but I occasionally want to show them. It's just that they are hidden again if I click Go, even if I click "Show my edits" just before i click Go, This is not a big issue, I just would like to know if it's possible. Iceblock (talk) 19:35, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Cropping an image
Hi, I just uploaded an image, File:Pod sculpture in Portland, Oregon.jpg. I want it to focus more on the sculpture and less on the cars, but I can't seem to find a place to ask someone to crop it for me (I don't have the right software). Do any of you know a page (or a user talk) I can ask at? Thanks, David  1217  What I've done 15:44, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You could try asking at the Photography workshop. Sarahj2107 (talk) 16:06, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for getting to my requests so quickly—your suggestion was just right. Now I know what newbies feel like when they can't find something . David  1217  What I've done 16:27, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

You could try GIMP as well. It may be faster.--Canoe1967 (talk) 22:11, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, the graphics lab editors were pretty fast, plus I don't want to download anything, because I don't want to slow my computer down. David  1217  What I've done 17:33, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Automatically grouping references
Is there a script one can run on a page to group all identical references using ? For example on a page like Armageddon (convention). benzband ( talk ) 16:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * WP:Expand citations - in your Toolbox menu. Roger (talk) 17:14, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've done Armageddon (convention). Roger (talk) 17:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! benzband  ( talk ) 17:59, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

photos of steamers
have got black/white photos & postcards of ss duchess of hamilton,ts king edward,ps waverley want to sell how to go about it--92.22.41.125 (talk) 21:59, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You could try eBay or Craig's list or find an antique(?) dealer to buy them or take them on consignment. But, this desk is for asking questions about how to use Wikipedia.  For general questions there's the reference desk at WP:RD RudolfRed (talk) 22:06, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

login not working, user name not recognized
I've been away from wiki for about a year. Now when I try to login it says there is no email associated with the user name I enter. I've looked at troubleshooting and nothing there answers my question. thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.177.247 (talk) 23:04, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Cleaned up your question. What username are you trying to use?  Usernames are case sensitive, so you'll need to have the caps in the right place.  Also, was the account at the english wikipedia? RudolfRed (talk) 23:07, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes it was on the English site, and yes I used correct u/l case — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.177.247 (talk) 00:57, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * As RudolfRed asked: what username are you trying to use? Tonywalton Talk 01:00, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * What username are you trying to use? TimofKingsland (talk) 00:59, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Public use of 10.0.0.0/4 IPs
How is this user using an IP address in the 10.0.0.0/4 block on the public internet? I thought that wasn't possible? BigNate37(T) 23:12, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "These address blocks are reserved for use on private networks, and should never appear in the public Internet." From what I understand, it means they are somehow faking their IP address. I would have thought Wikipedia already blocked people whose IP address appears as a "Special-Use" address. Is there a way for admins to block an entire range of IP addresses? All special use addresses should be blocked, as an attempt to mask an IP address when editing Wikipedia will almost always be to disrupt the site (as it appears is the case with this user). TimofKingsland (talk) 23:36, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Would it be a WMF network that has server access? They may have forgotten to log in? It may be the poor admin in the section below.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:45, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt it, with edits like these. TimofKingsland (talk) 23:56, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Say, does the software properly distinguish between a user account named with an IP address, and a non-account user at the address? I'm curious how it's handled and if it's possible, how it looks different, but I know better than to try creating a test account at a potentially harmful name. BigNate37(T) 23:58, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems like a username can be named as an IP address - "Some users choose to make usernames based on their static IP addresses, but this is not recommended." One way I know to tell the difference is that the username links to a user page when signing talk pages, but to their contributions if they don't have a username. See here, where this "10.64.0.169" user has signed a talk post. TimofKingsland (talk) 00:08, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Good eye. That led me to another observation: the user links on diff pages are context-sensitive as well. The advantage to knowing that is it's not within the user's power to alter. BigNate37(T) 00:40, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Admin password lost!!
Hi there. I am not sure who to contact on this, but the Help Desk seemed feasible! I am an admin, but I can not access my e-mail or Wikipedia account. Maybe it has been changed or hacked, or maybe I have just forgotten. To whom can I contact to help me out? Many Thanks. --Betterkaark (talk) 23:28, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Could WP:OS help? Have them confirm your IP with checkuser, close the account in case it is hacked, etc.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:41, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you checked the contributions and logs of the account in question? Has it been active since you last accessed it? If so, this becomes a case of challenged identities. Generally e-mail is the proof of identity for online accounts, which complicates the matter from your perspective. If you can no longer access your e-mail account either, you're likely out of luck. Contact us/login problems states that the automatic e-mail password reset is the only way to recover lost passwords, and that we are unable to look up details of e-mail addresses or passwords. Whether the account is being used or not, you should head to WP:AN/I and explain the situation there so that the administrator community can decide what to do about the account. It sounds like the best case scenario for you is that if the account is clearly no longer being used legitimately, you may be able to create a new account and have the permissions from your old one given to you. That assumes that Canoe's oversight suggestion works to your advantage. BigNate37(T) 23:46, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Creating a BLP
Hello. I have created a handful of small articles with no problem, but now I am creating my first BLP, and I would like someone to look it over first before I post it, and critique it and/or point out errors. I am aware of the special circumstances that accompany BLP articles, and I want to be cautious. The article is on a subpage of my user space at User:Michael J/George Toma. Also I noticed that an article on this person (George Toma) was deleted four years ago, so I am not sure what that means for creating this article with more complete sourcing. Thank you. (If this is not the place to seek such assistance, please direct me.)  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 23:46, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The deleted article was made by User:Wtchtwr and only contained this:

"The Truman Sports Complex's legendary groundskeeper, George Toma, best known as the head groundskeeper for every Super Bowl, thus had the ironic job of maintaining two carpets for most of his career, the surface of Arrowhead and Kaufman Stadium.

Considered the most prolific groundskeeper."
 * It doesn't affect your article. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:59, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Is there someone who would care to review the article in my user space before I move it to mainspace?  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 00:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It's a good start. On first glance, I noticed there are quite a few unsourced statements, though. Statements like "In addition, Toma was called upon to supervise the grounds crews during the 1984 and 1996 Olympic Games, and the 1994 World Cup." need to be attributed to a reliable source. TimofKingsland (talk) 00:25, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Block form
The block form is used by admins for blocking named accounts or IP addresses. There are six check boxes just above the Block button. One of them is "Autoblock any IP addresses used". It is ticked by default. I understand what it does when one blocks a named account, but it would appear to be irrelevant when blocking an IP address.

If indeed it is irrelevant, does it matter whether it is ticked or unticked?

Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:53, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Read WP:Autoblock. Autoblock will prevent contributors from contributing on the IP address that the blocked user was using, and should typically be disabled when blocking unapproved or malfunctioning bots (so as not to block the bot's operator, or other bots using that IP), though it should be enabled when blocking malicious bots. Arcandam (talk) 09:04, 23 July 2012 (UTC) p.s. To refresh the memory: New_admin_school/Blocking
 * I'm not talking about bots, just regular old IP addresses, and this question arose because of a deficiency in the admin school instructions.--Bbb23 (talk) 09:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * When dealing with username blocks/unblocks it says: "Autoblock any IP addresses used blocks all IP addresses the editor may use in the future whilst blocked – this should be changed to ticked." When dealing with IP blocks/unblocks the autoblock option does not appear AFAIK (it doesn't on my own mediawiki install, maybe Wikipedia.org behaves differently). Arcandam (talk) 09:22, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing wrong with the username block. On the IP block there's no instruction on autoblock, but the autoblock check box is on the form. (BTW, I won't be able to comment again for a while because I have to go to sleep. Thanks for your responses.)--Bbb23 (talk) 09:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Sleep well! Interdasting, the full blockform (Special:Block) contains the autoblock option but if you load Special:Block/RANDOMIPADRESSHERE it doesn't (on my own mediawiki install). This may be interpreted to mean that the autoblock stuff doesn't apply to IP's (which seems to make sense). Arcandam (talk) 09:28, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to post the question at the Pump, which is where it was suggested I go in the first place. I feel I need confirmation as to how this works technically before changing the instructions. Thanks for helping out.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:00, 24 July 2012 (UTC)