Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 March 28

= March 28 =

Problem with 'PUF' template.
There is a file which is erroneously described and attributed, and I have tracked down the original source, and am trying to add tag for Possible unfree file using the instructions for the 'Puf template'. However my attempts always end up as an invalid template (in red). Details are available on the file, etc., but (warning) this is a very long story. ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 00:42, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * While editing as the IP address 184.76.225.106, you've never edited a single file page; I'm guessing that you have a dynamic IP address. Please provide the name of the file (or the full URL of the file), because it will be a lot easier to answer your question if we can see what you've attempted.  Nyttend (talk) 00:50, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I presume the image you are talking about is File:Genghis and Borte dividing appanages.jpg? If so, that file was uploaded to Commons, not Wikipedia, so you should follow their procedure for starting a deletion discussion.  AJ Cham  01:05, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * For now my main problem is attempting to follow directions from (above) is failing to get results, and I am unsure if it is me, or a problem with the template, or a problem with the instructions. [Since there is never a problem with me, it must be the template!]

I managed to summarize the situation on the original uploader's 'talk page' -- would it be proper to link to that here? ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 01:11, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, hang on, it was uploaded to Wikipedia first then transferred to Commons, but the original is still in place here. In that case you can use the PUF template, but would still need to address the Commons version if there is a problem. I suspect the problem you are having with the template is that you are trying to add it to the Commons file instead of the local one.  AJ Cham  01:20, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * At User talk:Enerelt you link to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Genghis_and_Borte_dividing_appanages.jpg That file is on Commons, where there is no puf template. The easy way to nominate a file for deletion on Commons is to click the “Nominate for deletion” link at the bottom of the left sidebar. You should have no trouble using the puf template on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genghis_and_Borte_dividing_appanages.jpg which is a separate upload. —teb728 t c 06:05, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've started the 'nominate for deletion' process, but I only added This image is actually a modern reproduction by a current artist, the source of this image includes "All rights reserved. Copyright 2012 © Exotic India" to the 'Reason for the nomination'. To include specific details, do I add it to the file's main page, or the 'talk page'.  Also, I don't feel that I have authority to "delete" this -- I just want to sort things out properly; I have no relation to the artist, etc. -- Also, I am worried that this might be beyond my current abilities to do this without messing something up. And is the copy of the file on WP a separate deal, or will the process include both copies? ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 07:06, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I would put the details on the discussion page, Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Genghis and Borte dividing appanages.jpg. Don't worry about messing things up: the discussion page is just a forum like this one.
 * The copy on WP is a separate deal: use the puf template on File:Genghis and Borte dividing appanages.jpg. After you add it, the template will give directions on how to complete the nomination. —teb728 t c 18:41, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I manged to follow all steps for both files except the following (semi-protected:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan):
 * Add the following to the file's caption(s):

The file : has an uncertain copyright status and may be deleted. You can comment on its removal.


 * Thanks! Your assistance is appreciated. -- This article is a mess, and it is rated 'Top priority' in three catagories. ~Eric F [edit3] ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 00:23, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

LISTENING TO A SONG
WHEN A SEARCH IS COMPLETE ON AN ARTIST ALBUM / SONG IS THERE A WAY OF LISTENING TO THE MUSIC OF THIS ARTIST THROUGH YOUR SITE You are not currently logged in. If you save any edits, your IP address will be recorded publicly in this page's edit history. If you create an account, you can conceal your IP address and be provided with many other benefits. Messages sent to your IP can be viewed on your talk page.

Please do not save test edits. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you need any help getting started with editing, see the New contributors' help page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.35.82.136 (talk) 03:19, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck.-- Hallows Aktiengesellschaft ( talk ) 03:31, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * No; it would be a copyright violation for Wikipedia to have an artist's songs up in full just to have them. - Purplewowies (talk) 04:00, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Span tags showing on titles
On the tiles of articles, span tags are showing. Any idea what's causing this for me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.39.32.138 (talk) 05:42, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Have a look at Help desk/Archives/2012 February 29 - is that your problem? -- John of Reading (talk) 07:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Looking for good software to help me edit wikipedia.
Hello, and thank you for reading my question. I am looking for some good software that can help me edit wikipedia. If it could track people's edits, and tell me areas of the site that are in most dire need of editing or are disputed, that would be great as well. I see the village pump is wiki's main discussion forum—which part of this is for discussing specific articles, or trends? Looking at the discussion tab in pages, it appears there are seldom any prompt responses, and a lot of the pages even end at 2011. Xenharmonic (talk) 06:08, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * See Tools that contain various tools and tutorials intended to simplify, make more efficient, or provide additional functionality to Wikipedians.Moxy (talk) 06:14, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * To find articles needing various kinds of editing, you could try some of the links at the top right of Cleanup. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:33, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Query about the replication lag
At present, the replication lag between count tallies and the feedback appears to be very high - does any one have any idea why this is is? 08:07, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * There's discussion about this at the village pump VPT RudolfRed (talk) 08:12, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Creating images with programs on my computer that use data from a Twitter post
Hi,

I created a couple of graphs showing some data about the Challenger Deep sub that went to the bottom of the ocean over the weekend. I used data from Paul Allen's Twitter page that announced depths throughout the dive then I created two graphs showing the descent and ascent of the sub as a function of time as well as the rate of ascent/descent. I created the charts in Mathematica and then took a screen shot of the graph and edited these images a little in Photoshop to put a nicer looking title than what Mathematica created.

Do I need to site the source of the numbers (Paul Allen's tweets) and also do I need to site Mathematica and Photoshop as programs I used to create and modify the resultant image? Is content created this way something that I can upload to Wikipedia without doing anything else, like getting permission from Paul Allen to use info from his tweets or from Adobe or Wolfram about the image I created and modified?

I was going to add these to the Challenger Deep article to help show the progress of the dive.

Never done this before so am just trying to find out what I can and can't do.

Thanks...

DeepYogurt (talk) 09:00, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi! I suspect other users will offer advice too, but what I'd say is definitely list your sources for the data in the description of the file when you upload it to Commons. I wouldn't bother about listing Photoshop, but since I'm unfamiliar with Mathematica I can't say whether citing it is part of the licence agreement. I doubt that it is, though. But as for citing the data sources: yes please! I tried to vectorise a phase diagram of a chemical compound a while ago, and couldn't find where the original author had found his data. Very frustrating. Sorry I can't answer the rest of your question with confidence. Regards, Brammers (talk/c) 13:37, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You may wish to save as an .svg file as well. I think wikipedia is trying to use and convert to that format for graphs and charts, etc.--Canoe1967 (talk) 20:11, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected article needs 'Cleanup' and/or 'Copy edit'
There is a semi-protected article that is in need of cleanup (or copy edit?); the talk page has many issues discussed. Could somebody with admin privileges take a look? Putting a 'cleanup' or 'copy-edit' tag wouldn't work (nobody could edit). What are the options? ~Eric F [edit] ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 09:33, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * All autoconfirmed users (at least 4 days and 10 edits) can edit semiprotected pages. You seem to be a regular contributor already and could have been autoconfirmed long ago. Why not make an account? It's easy and has many other benefits. The username Eric F is available. If the software will not allow it because it's too similar to an existing name then you can ask for it at Request an account. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:18, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Paterson Mass Water flow meter
I have Mass Water Flow Meter (Fully Mechanical like a cabinet or tower clock) which manufactured by "Paterson Engineering Co. Ltd., Windsor House, Kingsway, London. In 1956, and reference no. of that meter is R- 1750. If anybody knows about this flow meter, please write. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.107.116.228 (talk) 09:37, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. Yunshui 雲&zwj;水 09:58, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Tony Stewart Picture
Main File picture of NASCAR driver Tony Stewart must be updated. The picture displays him in the "Home Depot" jumpsuit. "Home Depot" is no longer a sponsor for Tony Stewart. I would suggest a picture with either his "Office Depot" or "Mobil 1" jumpsuit, they are his current sponsors. Thank you for your help =)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.21.231.95 (talk) 12:14, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If somebody has a more recent picture which is in the public domain, or which they are willing to release under a suitable licence, they are welcome to upload it to Commons and replace the picture in the article. But Wikipedia does not care about sponsors, and an older picture of him is perfectly acceptable in an article (it would be reasonable to edit the caption to mention that his livery was out of date). --ColinFine (talk) 12:57, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You could ask those two latest sponsors for a public domain image and upload it yourself. Do you want a free stapler or a quart of oil for your efforts?--Canoe1967 (talk) 20:35, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

bayou blast and collapse
I got up to level 34 in bayou blast on facebook and had access to all the power ups today I went to play the game and I was put back to level 14 and lost access to most of the power ups very peeved.Alsao I had the high score and I came up as second grrrrr. On collapse you have that annoying 1 2 3 go we lose 10 seconds of our minute before we can start another grrrrrr. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.178.118.84 (talk) 13:58, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  14:10, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Just in doubt.....
Hello, I'm a experienced user here. My sister, User:Dazzlingstar090 stopped editing as she is very busy and can't make out time. What will I do to the account? Should I request an indefinite block with autoblock disabled to any admin? Just in doubt.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dipankan001 (talk • contribs) 15:11, 28 March 2012‎ (UTC)
 * Why do you want to block your sister's account? I do not see any reason. Ruslik_ Zero 17:03, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If she wants to, she can put a wikibreak template on her page to notify others that she will not be around or respond quickly to anything. But that's really something she should do, not you. - Purplewowies (talk) 18:55, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I know that one should only use one's one account. She can't be editing due to workload in real life. Thanks. Solved, depends upon my sister. Dipankan says..  ( "Be bold and edit!" ) 06:42, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


 * If she isn't around to edit. It's nice to leave a notice, but other than that, neither of you need to do anything. If her account was blocked simply for inactivity, it would take way too long for the account to be re-activated upon her return (if that ever happened). -- 194.60.106.17 (talk) 07:16, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

User Inputting False Information
On the page 2012 Telus Cup, there is a user who keeps putting in false information. Is there anyway to keep him from editing that page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.161.251.159 (talk) 15:18, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Simply use the undo feature with a reasonable edit summary, drop him a warning. Or you might request a page protection if you like. Thanks. Dipankan says..  ( "Be bold and edit!" ) 15:21, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Stock Answers
I note that some respondents provide stock answers where appropriate, such as, "I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 3.8 million articles...". Where do these responses come from? What other information is helpful for someone who wishes to assist on the Help page? Best Wishes ' Ankh '. Morpork  19:38, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * See Help desk/How to answer. It's linked on "How to answer" below the box at the top. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:43, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

List of articles in List of categories without DEFAULTSORT or Sortkey
Let's say that List of Cosby Show Episodes was in the category Category:List of NBC shows Episodes. There is no reason why it should be put in there without either a DEFAULTSORT or a Sortkey. If it is, then it gets listed under L, where it should be listed under C. Is there anyway to find these either by running against a database or by use of a bot to fix them?Naraht (talk) 20:10, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know a tool for this. I have fixed many cases manually after looking at the category page under a letter likely to be wrong, such as 'L' in your example. It would be nice with a feature to place code on a category page to instruct MediaWiki to ignore certain words when sorting, for example "List" and "of". PrimeHunter (talk) 15:08, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Diverse
Does someone else wish to try 'Diverse' in search and voice their opinion on whether the redirects and dab pages are set correctly?--Canoe1967 (talk) 20:18, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

using data
Are data (such as numbers in a table; e.g. Simpson's paradox) in Wikipedia considered to be text (and therefore would not need permission for use in a textbook that I'm trying to write)? Or is it necessary to ask a source for permission? Moshepollak (talk) 20:20, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Under my understanding, regarding the Idea–expression divide, is that data is an idea and so isn't protected by copyright, but the specific presentation of that data (the expression) is. So, data itself cannot be copyrighted, but the text, tables, charts, and graphs that report it are.  I am not an expert in this field, however, so if you have questions you may want to ask at Media copyright questions, which is a noticeboard for asking exactly this kind of question.  Of a seperate concern, is that you should always cite the sources of your data.  That is, even if it isn't encumbered by copyright, ideas still need to be connected to sources, lest you be guilty of plagiarism. In other words, even if you rewrite an idea in your own words, you still need to say where that idea comes from. See also Verifiability.  -- Jayron  32  20:25, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Request for feedback
I've written my first article, and I'm looking for some feedback

User:TomLuTon/SS Kaliyuga

TomLuTon (talk) 20:26, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * For a first article it looks pretty good. I suggest you hunt around for some more external references however, because it looks like you have just written it based on one book. The more verifiable references the better. It seems to have squeezed into notability -just.  Having said that, I think it will  soon be ready for becoming and article.  --Aspro (talk) 20:38, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I made some contributions to the article's Talk page. ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 21:34, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Citing multiple non-sequential pages
If I wanted to cite, for example, pages 40 and 140 of the same book in the same reference, should I use "p." or "pp."? And if "p.", should it be repeated before each page number (e.g. "p. 40, p. 140") or is once sufficient (e.g. "p. 40, 140")? (I realise this is an issue of almost comical insignificance, but the uncertainty was getting on my nerves.) – hysteria18 (talk) 20:46, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Separate page ranges with an en dash (–); separate non-sequential pages with a comma ; precede entire set of pages with ​pp. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 20:57, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

James Dean page
Wednesday, March 28, 2012 Hi, I've got a picture of the James Dean Memorial at Cholame, California, that I personally took back in May, 1988, that I'd like to put a link to on the James Dean Wiki page so others can enjoy seeing the mirror surface that used to be there. The picture is at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JamesDeanTributePostcard1988GF38.jpg. If someone can tell me how to add it to the James Dean page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dean, I'd appreciate it. Or, if someone can just go ahead and add the link to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dean page, that would be great.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by WaltMaken (talk • contribs) 22:17, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Why is in in a frame? Surly the original image would do?--Aspro (talk) 22:31, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It is a better picture than this one File:JamesDeanMemorialCholame.jpg that is used now. I agree that you should remove the gold frame, red frame and copyright text. They may look like spam to others.--Canoe1967 (talk) 22:35, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * (e'c) Seconded. It's great that you have donated the image to commons but I don't think it is usable right now in the article with the frame, the red interior border the writing and your copyright notice. Since you have released the image, if it was just the frame any of us could just crop and re-upload, but to crop enough to remove all the other extraneous elements would leave the image greatly compromised. Would you be willing to upload the photo ‎without the add-ons? Meanwhile, please see the top of Manual of Style/Images for basics on how to add an image to an article.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:43, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Why should the copyright notice be removed? Licencing it under creative commons doesn't give up copyright. RudolfRed (talk) 23:46, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I meant the text on the image only. The image page can still contain the copyright info. If it is left on the image, others may think it is spamming the JD article with a photographer's name.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:21, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Because it and the writing and the frame and the red border are all extraneous elements that are not part of the photo proper and are distracting and intrusive. I don't think anyone above was talking about whether the copyright symbol and following text was a violation of the copyright license of the image. An image's copyright status belongs on the image description page, not in the image. From Image use policy: "Do not put credits in images themselves." "If you create an image that contains text, please also upload a version without any text." "Free images should not be watermarked, distorted, have any credits in the image itself or anything else that would hamper their free use." From Commons:Watermarks "Adding your name directly to the photograph when uploading is strongly discouraged. It detracts from the quality of photographs, and generally the thumbnails used on pages are so small the text is not visible anyway."--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:31, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the explanation. RudolfRed (talk) 01:16, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Ansel E. Talbert Information
Just fyi, my father was born on January 6, 1912 and he dies on October 7, 1987. I suppose no one cares at this point but me! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.218.81.244 (talk) 22:43, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * May he RIP.--Aspro (talk) 23:00, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * We are interested, but the problem is that we have no way of knowing who you are and whether the information you are giving is accurate: that is why we insist on information being verifiable.
 * I have added the date of death to Ansel Talbert, as it is mentioned in the obituary; but I have removed the date of birth, as it was unreferenced. But I have not inserted the birth date you provided, because that is also unreferenced. If you can find a published source which gives the birth date, you are welcome to add it to the article, with a citation to the the source. (But if you are contemplating doing anything more than that to the article, please read WP:Conflict of interest first). --ColinFine (talk) 23:35, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I am going to add the birthdate as per V with a citation needed template. It seems the IP did know the accurate date of his passing, so I will assume good faith that the other date is accurate, if not verifiable. This is a more sesitive approach than hinting that we have no idea when he was born.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:31, 29 March 2012 (UTC)