Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 March 30

= March 30 =

'Listen' link
The embedded 'Listen' links used to work fine, but recently, using it opens a page with a media player. To get back to the original page requires pressing the 'Back' button. -- Very annoying.

Example:   From Genghis Khan -- Is it just me? Or does this happen to everybody? -- Is it a problem with browser (Firefox), or WP? ~Eric F184.76.225.106 (talk)
 * Works fine for me in MSIE 9 under Vista. VLC Player comes up and plays the word without fuss. Click to close the little player window afterwards, or just click on the Web page to continue with whatever I want. Jim.henderson (talk) 00:35, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * For me it opens page: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/GenghisKhan01.ogg which is blank except for player. When done, I have to use 'Back'. It used to (and should) play in background as an OLE embedded object. ~E Falk 184.76.225.106 (talk) 00:40, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Looking for ancesters
''Italic text' I read your article on Ed Asner. I am currently researching my ancestors. My grandmother's maiden name was spelt Asjner and came from Poland by was at the time Russia. She made a trip to New York in 1907 and always wondered whether she went to visit relatives. As she died very young not even my father knew anything.

As most people who came out of Poland and Russia changed their names. I wonder if Ed Asner's family dropped the "J" ? I am looking for anyway that you may contact him to answer my question. Our family came from Warta or Blaski as it has changed names according to the country in power.

Thanking you kindly, Mathilde Cobb {nee Scheps) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.146.65.235 (talk) 03:12, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * His IMDb page suggests their premium service may have contact info for his agent. —teb728 t c 03:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * These findagrave.com entries here are, respectively, his brother, mother, and father. No indication of the name origin or changes. Good luck. Dru of Id (talk) 03:42, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Template help!
I am coding User:Calliopejen1/Expand language sandbox to replace Expand language and all of its progeny like Expand Spanish with one standard template with a language parameter. The last step of merging them that I'm having trouble with is setting up a certain set of standard topic categories applicable to large languages, that may be added to as needed (say, Dr. Blofeld tags 1000 municipalities in Argentina with the template and the potential translator doesn't want to wade through all of them to find the other geography articles). Here is what I had that didn't seem to work so I removed it:. Any better solutions? Feel free to edit in my sandbox. Thanks!!! Calliopejen1 (talk) 03:12, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've made an edit. I haven't tested it, but I hope the general idea is clear enough. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:53, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks! That worked perfectly! Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Under Miss Minnesota USA
How do you add that Anne Marie Moore Miss Minnesota USA 2001, later became Mrs. Minnesota United States 2011 as Anne Marie Moore her married name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.180.139.155 (talk) 03:57, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't follow. Her surname was the same when she was "Miss" and as "Mrs.", and both were 'Moore'?  She married somebody also named Moore?  ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 04:09, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It's possible. It's also possible that she never changed her name.  It's not mandatory.  Dismas |(talk) 04:20, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * When she was Miss Minnesota it was under her maiden name: Anne Marie Clausen. If I understand what you want to add -- you could add that she was later Mrs. Minnesota United States 2011 as Anne Marie Moore her married name, in the table under 'Notes' column. -- on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Minnesota_USA ~Eric F184.76.225.106 (talk) 04:24, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The only problem is -- the only reference I could find for "Mrs. Minnesota United States 2011" is a flikr photo (which implies that she was there, but not necessarily the winner); and "Mrs.United States" for 2011 was MRS. FLORIDA - Shannon Ford. I'm not up on pageant terminology or whatnot; but I assume you are referring to her as being the Minnesota contestant in the Mrs. U.S. pageant. ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 09:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

image visibility
Hello -- I've asked for a duplicate image of a chart to be deleted, but now the one I want is not becoming visible in my article: AUI_symbols,_AUI_chart.jpg in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUI_(artificial_language) though the markup is that same....?? Also I want to change the title of the article to aUI, The Language of Space (constructed language) but haven't found how to edit a title, it's not visible under the edit function. thanks, Andrea Weilgart Patten — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andiweilgart (talk • contribs) 04:52, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it appearing the way you wanted it to now? (There was a pipe ( | ) where there should have been a period). - Purplewowies (talk) 05:19, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Re: image visibility/title change
Hi -- my image of the chart is now visible, thank you! So now I just need to edit the title of the article...can't find where you do that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andiweilgart (talk • contribs) 19:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * What article are you talking about? Is it possibly aUI (artificial language)?  It helps if you don't assume we know what you're talking about since we may not have read or been part of your previous discussions.  If you want to change the name of an article, the article must be moved to the new title.  See WP:MOVE.  Dismas |(talk) 20:11, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it is aUI (artificial language), but I don't see any reason to move that article from its current title, which seems to comply with WP:TITLE.--ukexpat (talk) 20:18, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Is the title it was moved to a better title or not? - Purplewowies (talk) 20:21, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The OP seems to have figured it out. It's now at aUI, The Language of Space (constructed language) which seems quite awkward and wordy.  Dismas |(talk) 20:22, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Re: image visibility/title change
Thanks! In the meantime I had figured it out and moved/changed the title. aUI, The Language of Space is the complete title of the language; the part in parentheses was there before, but I changed it to constructed....thought it better, functions as clarification, but one could leave it off if you think it's too wordy....?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andiweilgart (talk • contribs) 20:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I've moved the 3 parts of this thread together. It was confusing to have 3 threads on the same topic. - David Biddulph (talk) 23:26, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Want feedback on new article
I would like feedback from other editors on an article I have been working on in my sandbox about Michael L Trope, a trial lawyer and previous sports agent and see if it is ready for prime time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JoeyD2010/sandbox I would appreciate any feedback on the sandbox talk page. Thanks JoeyD2010 (talk) 06:21, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. I haven't read it in depth, but it's very well referenced, and appears to be well-structured. I would say move it to article space. If there are problems the New Page Patrol may pick them up, but I don't think it's under any risk of deletion. --ColinFine (talk) 09:31, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * It's ready for prime time. Well written and sourced. I made one pretty trivial edit, Joey; see if you agree. DocTree (talk) 15:06, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Article creation problem
I failed creating an article for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Cook_%28oil_executive%29# There used to be a one-click article creation. Now it is a multi-step process with lots of advice and pages explaining what to do but I got lost at the step where I was asked to enter the article Name. I used cut & paste and that was it then. I got an error message. I then tried to file a bug report but was asked for a username and password so I couldn't file the bug report immediately. Here I am now trying to raise the issue hoping that some improvement is possible to get a one-click article creation solution again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.224.11.67 (talk) 07:41, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's not a friendly error message, is it? I suggest you try again, entering only  in the "name" box. You can jump directly to the final step of the wizard using this link. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:53, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Error in Wikipedia
Hi,

I would like to bring your notice to an error in the page for "Roberto Mancini".

In the personal information section, it is mentioned that he played for Bologna in "1581–1782" and for Sampdoria in "1483–1497". The correct entries should be "1981-1982" and "1983-1987".

Please make the changes and also guide me in creating a new pages.

Thanks,

Rahul Pandey  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rahul8171 (talk • contribs) 11:39, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Reverted to pre-vandalism version. Dru of Id (talk) 11:45, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Best way would just be to click the edit button and change it yourself, but please make absolutely sure you have the correct dates first.
 * Ion Zone (talk) 15:58, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Or you could have visited the page history and clicked on the undo link. Astronaut (talk) 14:58, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * For anyone who is new, that means click on "history" or "view history" at the top of the page and click on the most recent versions of the article (where there is a date and time) to find where it was vandalized, and then go back and click "undo" when that version is found. Also see Help:Page history.— Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 18:18, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Ref sorting
hello,

see Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources. Any help appreciated. Regards.-- GoP T C N 13:02, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * What is your question? RudolfRed (talk) 19:30, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * What is your answer? (you need to click the link with the left mouse button) GoP T C N 19:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Categorizing a template
Which of the template categories at Template messages would be considered the most appropriate for Template:Stub redirect? -- Toshio Yamaguchi  (tlk−ctb) 14:38, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the redirect category. 71.146.8.88 (talk) 04:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Noticeboard
Which noticeboard is the most appropriate one for reporting experienced users who have indulged in harassing other users and repeated unethical behavior like bad faith comments? Secret of success  (talk) 14:48, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably the best idea is to follow the guidelines at dispute resolution. You could also open a WP:RFC/U. TN X Man  14:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) The only one I can think of off the top of my head (having read but never used it) is WP:ANI (though the stuff I see getting reported there is usually pretty bad, so it's not a first step). You might also want to take a look at WP:DR. - Purplewowies (talk) 14:59, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it involves multiple articles, so I think DR would not be really effective. Secret of success  (talk) 15:06, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikiquette assistance? DMacks (talk) 16:04, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Like I said, if it is for experienced users, WQ assistance would prove nearly ineffective. Never mind, I'll try ANI itself. <font face="Batik Regular"><font color="#00703C">Secret of success  <font color="#29AB87">(talk) 04:20, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Non-factual polemic sources are clogging up Wikipedia
I really need to talk to somebody about something that has been bugging me for quite a while but I honestly don't know where to do it. For me it is one of the biggest problems on Wikipedia, it's a problem that, as much as I love Wikipedia, makes me feel very uncomfortable about trusting it as a reference tool. Here's the thing, the most controversial articles on Wikipedia are, quite often, either entirely made up of opinions lifted from popular uncited and unresearched polemics and other non-factual sources or, at least, give a lot of undue weight to them and cite them as thought they were leading experts in the field. And even when the evidence contradicts them on every level, they are still given precedence in articles, as thought they were preferred to the facts.

While I appreciate there is a place on Wiki for various opinions, I think we really need to take a good hard look at the weight and preference that seems to be given to them, particularly the ones that are not backed up by any evidence. Very often wiki articles are being spammed with polemical arguments and claims lifted from works written by people who have very, very, POV opinions on the subject and cite little or no actual evidence to back up their case. These sources are not peer reviewed, they are not by experts in the field, they are not in any way endorsed by experts (though they are often endorsed by friends of the author), they do not use much of any evidence (anecdotes don't count), and, most of the time, they are not in any way factual. And once they are in there, and no matter how discredited their opinions are are, it is almost impossible to remove them or replace them with factual sources. And when actual evidence is added it almost always gets added in as a small end-section as though the facts are not as important as popular rhetoric.

I'm not saying we should stop citing non-experts, non-experts can sometimes be as good as experts (if they really do their research) and their opinions can often be useful, even if they are only useful in so much as they state a public opinion that can then be weighed against the evidence. However, I am a bit fed up with sifting through endless Wiki articles plagued by one-sided arguments made by people who make no attempt to back up what they are saying. I appreciate Wikipedia has an established way of working, but in my mind this is something that really needs looking into, it is by far the quickest and most common way to turn an article into a POV mess and keep it that way. Ion Zone (talk) 15:55, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * In an encyclopedia of 3.8 million or so articles, this unfortunately cannot be completely prevented. Due to the way we are structured, this must be addressed one article at a time: there is no magic bullet, no global solution. It might help if you offered some examples of articles which you feel are exemplars of this problem, and outline what you've tried to do to address it. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  16:01, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The biggest one I know of would be the Criticism of Religion page. I spent a couple of hours on one section a little while ago. If you removed the stuff that is just plain opinion you wouldn't be left with enough to fill a postcard, however any article citing the main offenders on that page would qualify here.
 * Ion Zone (talk) 16:13, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * After a brief skim through that particular article, I don't see a major cause for complaint, even though there is always scope for improvement. And I wouldn't call the opinions of Christopher Hitchens, Karl Marx and Richard Dawkins, nor the counter opinions of Ayatollah Khomeini, the opinions of non-experts in this field.  Astronaut (talk) 14:56, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Need a second opinion
I started an article about the Gelehrtenschule des Johanneums, an universitory preparatory school, which educated many notable scientists and politicians in Germany. The school does not charge any fees. I included this fact into the article, because I held the opion that this would be an interesting opinion as similar schools in other country typically charge high fees. Prestiguos schools in Germany often do not charge fees and students at statefunded schools typically outperform students at private schools. Yet many people from other countries may not know this. I know in other countries it often is the other way around. Another keeps deleting it, but has added the information that the school is operated and financed by the city of Hamburg (which is true). So my question is: 1. Do you think the information is relevant? If your are from another country and only learn that the school is financed by the city of Hamburg, would you understand that it does not charge fees? If you would understand, I think the article should stay like this. hope this is the right place to ask that kind of question.--Greatgreenwhale (talk) 16:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Could add both
 * Ion Zone (talk) 16:37, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I would add both points as well. Just because it's financed by the city of Hamburg does not tell me that it is free to students.  I wouldn't assume anything of the sort.  I went to a state school here in the US and had to pay many thousands of dollars to go there.  Dismas |(talk) 16:40, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your opinions.--Greatgreenwhale (talk) 16:50, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Question on Template:cite video
Is there a way to specify minutes after the citation to avoid using the same reference multiple times? For example, when citing reports, you can use this template to show page(s) number. Like this, this and this.

I'm asking because I want to use a documentary film as a source. (details)  Mohamed CJ  (talk) 17:55, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * See the <tt>|time</tt> parameter described in the template documentation at Template:Cite video.--ukexpat (talk) 18:01, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I think you missed my point. If I want to use the same video multiple times, for different parts of it, normally I'd have to cite it about 10 times. However, I'm asking if there was a template for videos that works in the same way Template:Rp does for reports/paper references.  Mohamed CJ  (talk) 18:25, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Oops yes I did, apologies. I don't know the answer to that question.--ukexpat (talk) 18:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Um, the documentation for Rp says that the page-number field "can also be used for non-paginated sources, e.g., '0:35:12' for a video source", so you would just use and the like. Deor (talk) 22:36, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks Deor!  Mohamed CJ  (talk) 07:26, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Problem
A user recently created an article that I was in the process of creating and stole all the information from my userspace to do so. How can I get it deleted? --KAVEBEAR (talk) 18:03, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Should we assume that this is about Julia Alapai? Most times, it's easier to give precise answers if we have examples to work off of.  Without knowing what articles people are talking about, we' just making guesses.  Dismas |(talk) 19:50, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no such thing as "stole" from your userspace. If you put information anywhere on this site, you agreed to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agreed to release your contribution under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. You agreed that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license; so you could ask that there be some sort of credit on the talk page of the article; but that's about it. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  21:29, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That being said, if you were creating the article, it sounds a bit rude, and if he submits it for DYK credit, you may wish to start a discussion at WT:DYK.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:03, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It is Julia Alapai. I know that users don't own articles, but I am sure that wikipedia doesn't allow people to simply steal another users work off their private userspace and create the article. So does this mean I could hunt out other users' userspaces and create the articles, right? I was looking for some sort of regulation or rule that can give me the right to delete this article. If I can't delete this I will redirect the entire page back to my userspace. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:57, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Or can I request for deletion of the article as the original author even if I wasn't credited.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 01:02, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't start an edit war. Try WP:DR RudolfRed (talk) 03:06, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

A weird case with interwiki
Hi! I created the art. Nature versus nurture in the Czech WP two weeks ago. Ever since I did that, bots have not been adding interwiki to other language versions of the article. As for the English article, I added the link by hand at last. But that hasn’t changed the situation. All the other language articles still remain to be without the Czech link. Why bots do not perform their work? --Solus ipse Inc. (talk) 20:04, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It might have to do with the fact that there's a week-long replication lag on Toolserver (I heard it was causing problems with some bots). I created an article on Simple and a bot did add it to the en interlanguage links during the replag, though, so I don't know if that's the reason or not. - Purplewowies (talk) 20:18, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Linebreak prevention (in a link)
How can a linebreak be prevented between "C" and "+" when used in a link? Example: Interactive Disassembler - screenshot. --Mortense (talk) 20:44, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it fixed now? - Purplewowies (talk) 20:49, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes! This can be generalised - I thought nowrap was not working for links, but as you have demonstrated ( C++ ) it does if the link is put inside. C++ would not work. --Mortense (talk) 21:06, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

user channel- favourite
Sallam

does Wikipedia has a user channel or favorite, something similar to youtube channel or favorite webpage on any web browser, if you dont can you please add this service we would like to keep a record for the articles we read Abradj (talk) 20:50, 30 March 2012 (UTC) thank you
 * You can add articles to your watchlist, and be notified whenever they change. Or, your can bookmark your favorite pages in your browser. RudolfRed (talk) 22:10, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I would like my pre-2012 contributions to be deleted
According the Help:User contributions page, you mentioned under the "deletion" section that "In some limited circumstances individual contributions (that is, specific edits) may be removed from public view by administrators using Revision Deletion". Since I'm not an administrator, I can't access this program, but I still would like to delete my contribution history from before 2012 (which were from 2006-2007). I feel it is outdated information that isn't necessary for other people to view or let alone "undo" (because it wouldn't be possible anyway; the information is so old). Could someone else (an administrator) please delete my 2006, 2007 contributions? I can't do it myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CastleBuff (talk • contribs) 22:11, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * An admin can speak to this with more authority, but I believe the answer is no. Revision Deletion is used only is certain limited, specific cases, which are outlined at WP:REVDEL. Your 2007–2008 edits to articles are integral parts of the articles' histories and, assuming that there is evidence of them still in the articles, cannot be removed, as they are necessary for proper attribution of the articles' content. Deor (talk) 22:29, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Deor is correct. Revision Deletion is intended to be used extremely rarely, and in very limited situations. The possibility that some edits may be "outdated" isn't one of the reasons. I glanced at a couple of your pre-2012 edits and don’t see any that would qualify for RevDel. If there is something that is particularly an issue, and you are trying not to call attention to it, that's a smart decision. Send me an email (look on the left panel for "email this user" although it may only exist if you have email enabled.) I will be happy to look at anything privately, and see if it qualifies.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  14:15, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

How can I add a Category to an article but have the article appear on the Category page under a different name?
How can I add a Category to an article but have the article appear on the Category page under a different name?. I want to add the Category "Cars assembled in Australia" to the article "1957 Ford" which includes details on the the 1957, 1958 & 1959 US Fords. However as only the 1959 model was assemled in Asutralia I would like to see the article appear on the Category page as "1959 Ford" rather than as "1957 Ford". Is this possible please? GTHO (talk) 22:53, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You can add the category to 1959 Ford then it should show up on the category page as 1959 Ford and then the link will take you to the page 1957 Ford. You should put a note why the category was added.  GB fan 23:02, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That's interesting GB Fan. I've never thought of adding a redirect to a category like that before. To answer the original question, though it may no longer be strictly relevant, you can pipe the name you want, in the form . The "|" symbol separating one side from the other is the "pipe".--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:10, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The category page will always display the real name of the page or redirect. The code  will sort the page under name on the category page, but it will not display name. See more at Help:Category. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:26, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

club pogo
I've been a member for several years and bought a used laptop from someone when the laptop was 3 mos. old, but now pogo won't let me in unless I download java plug-in and I contacted the previous owner to get his password and he won't give it out. Can you tell me some way that I can bypass his password to download this so I can go back and start playing again — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.150.126.134 (talk) 23:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. - Purplewowies (talk) 23:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You might want to ask at the Computing Ref Desk for advice on how to gain access to your PC if the previous owner won't tell you the administrator password. Astronaut (talk) 14:44, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

"Log out" link
It is only available when I navigate to another page. Thanks. ~ AH1 (discuss!) 23:57, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Please clarify. Do you mean you don't see the link here on the help desk? What is your skin and browser? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:03, 31 March 2012 (UTC)