Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 May 19

= May 19 =

Design recognition
Hello,

Is it possible to add a new header like "Programmer" or "Planner" to the Infobox on the following page?

The_Bank_of_Kentucky_Center

Full disclosure: I work as a consultant for Brailsford & Dunlavey, a company based in Washington, DC. Recently I've noticed a lot of firms we work with and compete against are listed throughout Wikipedia for facility projects they have designed, managed, etc. They are listed in Infoboxes on facility pages like the one above.

There are a lot of companies that are not architects, engineers, or contractors. But they are the ones that plan facilities like ballparks, arenas, and stadiums. They hand off architectural programs to designers. They determine whether a project is feasible to begin with.

Does a "programmer" or "planner" tag for facility-based Infoboxes already exist? And if it doesn't, would the Wikipedia community find it useful enough to merit adding?

Sincerely,

B.J. Rudell — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bjrudell (talk • contribs) 02:01, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, sorry. Arcandam (talk) 02:32, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * That infobox is at Template:Infobox stadium; do the personnel parameters there cover what you're recommending? If not, you could post to its talk page. Dru of Id (talk) 02:34, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

"This is a tool icon"
Hi. A few times I have seen a message "This is a tool icon" on Wikipedia pages, which sits at the extreme right edge of the window, and doesn't scroll with the rest of the content, like this:

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3347/thisisatoolicon2.png

The article depicted here is List of jōyō kanji. The "tool icon" thing does not always reproducibly display on this page; sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. I saw it one one other page, but I can't remember which one. I do not see it on any sites other than Wikipedia. Using WIn 7 and IE9. Anyone got any idea what this is about? 86.167.19.246 (talk) 02:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Scroll up a bit. The header is called "Strange tool icon on "World's largest universities" page". Arcandam (talk) 02:30, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, OK, thanks. Actually I searched Google, yesterday I think it was, and found nothing, but just now I tried again and found this. 86.167.19.246 (talk) 02:33, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Where has the biliteracy page gone ?
When I search for biliteracy I am directed to literacy which is NOT THE SAME. Wiki tells me that there is a page on biliteracy but every link goes back to literacy ?

Any ideas

John John  McCaffery. Senior Lecturer, Te Kura Marautanga me te Ako: Curriculum & Pedagogy( English/Languages/ Literacy/TESOL/ Bilingual/ Immersion Education ) Faculty of Education, Epsom Campus. Office N Block, N601 University of Auckland, Private Bag 92601, Symonds Street, Auckland 1, Aotearoa/New Zealand  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.216.108.12 (talk) 04:02, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The page was redirected to literacy with this edit in 2009. No edit summary was given, but I'm not exactly sure what to do with the article.  It was in unbelievably poor shape when it was redirected and was full of original research and instructions/guides.  I'd like to see another editor's thought but I think at a minimum the first paragraph "Biliteracy is the state of being literate in two or more languages. To be biliterate has a stronger and more specified connotation than the claim of being simply bilingual. This is because the term 'literate' indicates the subject is not only able to communicate verbally in a second language, but is also able read and write successfully in this second language." should be restored if links can be found to back up the difference between biliteracy and bilingual.  Ryan Vesey  Review me!  04:09, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If you would like to edit the page yourself, the link to edit it is here. Just make sure you follow Wikipedia's verifiability policy, which states that verifiability, and not truth, is required.  I understand that you are a lecturer at a University so you may know if something is true, but we cannot accept your word for it unless it is backed up by reliable sources.  Ryan Vesey  Review me!  04:12, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Help from experts would be great -The edit looks like a deliberate attempt to eliminate biliteracy as a category
Help from the academic world is needed  -The edit  looks like a deliberate attempt to eliminate biliteracy as a category as there is no mention of bilingualism or reading and writing in two or more languages at all which is what most of the worlds population is now seeking to do. Simply because a page has problems does not mean it should have the entire category eliminated? Certainly biliteracy requires its own Wikipedia page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.216.108.12 (talk) 04:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, have you considered creating the content yourself? Ryan Vesey  Review me!  04:27, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Please assume good faith. From Ryan's comments above, the article was very poor, and the editor may have thought that it was unsalvageable. --ColinFine (talk) 10:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

"This is a tool icon" popup
Was reading Leonard Hankerson when this thing came up on the side that said "This is a tool icon". There was a black X, but I couldn't click out. Nothing strange in the page's source. 68.98.31.172 (talk) 04:28, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * See Help_desk. RudolfRed (talk) 04:45, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Stuart Ashen
What do those codes mean for this article. EG A7, G3, G8 etc?drt2012 (talk) 08:09, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * See WP:CSD. Mjroots (talk) 08:36, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Dysfunctional navbox - Template:Foam scales and properties
Template:Foam scales and properties's show/hide function does not work. I am insufficiently skilled with templates to solve the problem. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:23, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Template:Navbox was not designed to include a normal table like that. It is supposed to look like this, and you fill in the parameters. -- King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 09:19, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have looked for style guidance as to whether this is a problem, but have had no success, probably looking in the wrong part of the maze. Is it neccessary or desirable to change the non-standard navbox so that it takes up less space of the bottom of the article, or is it OK to leave it as it is? (it tens to look a bit over the other navboxes, but for all I know it may be perfectly acceptable. I have found that there is at least one other navbox to the same pattern. I don't know what the creator was trying to achieve with this format, so I am hesitant to rush in and change it in unless it is deprecatedPeter (Southwood) (talk): 20:27, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * PrimeHunter has sorted it out with a simple and elegant solution. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 07:27, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

India Indians versus Native American Indians
I don't know why so many authors have a hard time distinguishing between India Indians and Native American Indians. I am a highly educated NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN (CHEROKEE). I am NOT an India Indian. I know this is so confusing for many people, especially for those who are geographically challenged. Please respect both groups of peoples. When you talk about (generic) Indians, NO ONE knows just who you are talking about and you only confuse readers. Remember...India Indians and Native American Indians. Totally different people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jelitch (talk • contribs) 09:20, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * There is very little anybody can do with a generalised moan like this. I experience no confusion between these two huge collections of different peoples. Is there some particular article you want to see changed? --ColinFine (talk) 10:07, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe Jelitch is referring to today's featured article, which refers to the early inhabitants of what is now Florida as "Paleo-Indians". Regarding those two articles, I sympathise with his views. Maproom (talk) 10:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Paleo-Indian is a common term in the academic literature. Many Americans refer to themeselves as Indians and many tribes use the word, as does the OP. We can't do much about this except take an NPOV stance and use the terms commonly used without choosing between them, although perhaps I've misunderstood you. Note that his only mainspace edit is this which I shall now revert. Dougweller (talk) 12:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've now posted to his talk page saying his post here isn't clear and explaining why I've reverted him at the article. Dougweller (talk) 12:53, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't necessarily agree that "we can't do much about this". I don't think the article title is carved in stone. The very first line uses the alternative term "Paleoamerican". But I think this issue is better handled at Talk:Paleo-Indians, Talk:Indigenous peoples of the Americas, or related article talk pages. Cresix (talk) 15:20, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, the title. That's another issue, I meant we can't avoid the word. Dougweller (talk) 19:36, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

There was an unexpected error logging in.
Trying to login I get the message: "There was an unexpected error logging in." Cookies are removed and enabled. I've had this problem over a longer period of time, being a user since 2008. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.215.135.27 (talk) 09:42, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Try WP:VPT.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:57, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Article "1961 Indian annexation of Goa"
I had made two main contributions to this article (with several slight changes now and then), in particular to Chapter 6 ("Internment and repatriation of POWs"). Such contributions were duly supported by references. However, I have noticed that they were deleted from the article and the following notice was sent to me:

''This is your last warning. The next time you violate Wikipedia's no original research policy by inserting unpublished information or your personal analysis into an article, as you did at 1961 Indian annexation of Goa, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. NOTE: I noticed that a lot of your inputs on the aforementioned page are violations of our above policy, as well as WP:Neutral point of view and WP:Verifiability. Last warning, if you continue to do this, I guarantee you that you will be BLOCKED very soon. Take heed~! Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 00:57, 19 May 2012 (UTC)''

I do not understand why I am being warned this way. As I said, both my contributions were duly documented. They were as follows:

Contribution 1: '''The Portuguese actor José Manuel Mendes was one of the Portuguese soldiers held captive by the Indian army following the annexation of Goa. Almost fifty years later, he spoke in an interview of the incredibly harsh conditions of detention. In poverty-ridden India, no priority would be given to feeding war prisoners, so food in the camp was extremely scarce and poor, virtually limited to one bowl of rice per day. Then, all of a sudden, the numerous errant dogs and cats in the area practically disappeared and, by coincidence or not, the detainees' meals began to include meat. '''

Contribution 2: After the already existing text: ''In one incident, recounted by Lt. Francisco Cabral Couto (now retired general), an attempt was made on 17 January, by some of the prisoners to escape the camp. The attempt was foiled, and the Portuguese officers in charge of the escapees were threatened with court martial and execution by the Indians. This situation was defused by the timely intervention of a Jesuit military chaplain. '', I added the following text:

'''However, the Indians did not waste the opportunity to exert a cowardly reprisal. According to the Portuguese journalist Luís Pedro Cabral, an Indian lieutenant attacked the Portuguese Captain Carlos Azeredo with a stick, yelling "Run! Run!", to which the latter replied "Vá bardamerda!" (Go to hell). Three Indian officers began to beat him so brutally with the butts of their rifles that Azeredo would certainly die, lest another Portuguese military had not advised him in Portuguese (which the Indians did not understand) not to resist.'''

Although in fact I cannot produce evidence of Mr José Manuel Mendes' interview to Rádio e Televisão de Portugal (for Contribution #1), I can at any moment send a scan of journalist Luís Pedro Cabral's article in "Visão História" magazine to support my text in Contribution #2.

I do not see why the statements of an Indian officer in his alleged memoirs should be more credible than the statements of Portuguese officers in a magazine. Namaacha (talk) 10:02, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I do not know anything abou5t the topic, or about this dispute. But I notice the word "cowardly" in the material you say you added. Evaluative and emotive words like cowardly are NEVER acceptable in Wikipedia unless they are directly attributable to (and probably quoting) independent reliable sources. I suspect that this part of what the editor meant by "your personal analysis". --ColinFine (talk) 10:11, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Second opinions requested
I started this page mostly out of personal curiosity, and because it's the sort of thing that I would like to read about. However, now that I've got a few entries, I'm concerned that the list may be trivial, in the sense that the entries are only linked by being terms that have fallen into disfavour or obscurity. It's also unlikely to ever be complete. I wouldn't move it to the mainspace until it was significantly longer, but I'd like a second opinion before investing that time/energy. Matt Deres (talk) 12:27, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting concept. I think it could qualify under Lists's Glossary criteria. I'd feel relatively safe moving it into article space. If it ends up getting deleted it's no big deal though, just retain a copy in your userspace just in case.  Equazcion  ( talk )  12:31, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks interesting and useful enough to me. I wouldn't worry too much about completion, lots of articles are not complete and may never be completed, but are still worth having. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 16:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * There is a similar list relating to disability here, there may be some "operlapping" content you could use. Roger (talk) 14:20, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it looks fine. I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be in article space.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 14:47, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I moved it. It was a crime to leave it in userspace. Hope the OP doesn't mind.  Equazcion  ( talk )  14:54, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Need help adding header text to edit instructions
At WP:RSN, we want to take the header instructions listed here: Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Header and repeat them on edit the page when an editor creates a new section. By header instructions, I'm referring to the text beginning with "When posting, please be sure to include any of the following information that..." and ending with "This is not the place for content disputes which should be directed to the article talk page or associated WikiProject" IOW, the content inside (and including) the yellow/orange sections. So, when an editor clicks on this link, they'll see the header instructions. How do I do this? Can anyone do this or do I need an admin? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 13:07, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * See WP:EDITNOTICE. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:16, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It looks like you need an admin to do this.  Are there admins reading this who can help us out?  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 13:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have created the Edit Notice for you. GB fan 13:54, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 16:35, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

BTW, if we decide to change the header instructions, is that something we can do ourselves or do we still need an admin? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 16:58, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not sure if you need an admin or not, try editing Template:Editnotices/Page/Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard, that is where the notice is at. GB fan 18:55, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * No, I can't. And looks and acts weird.  The bottom order section is missing when I look at it.  There is an Edit tab.  When I click on Edit, it goes into edit mode but the textbox is readonly.  It looks like we'll need an admin if we want to change the text.  OK, thanks, again.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 14:54, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Help with uploading a movie poster under fair use
I've been doing some work with the article "We Shall Overcome (film)". I would like to have the movie poster http://elholms.dk/formmail/filmaftalen/img/4458_poster_droemmen.jpg uploaded under fair use and displayed in the infobox in the article. The copyright holder of the image are "Zentropa Entertainments11" and "Nordisk Film Biografdistribution". Of course it is impossible to find a free movie poster to the article because all movie posters for this film is copyrighted. I am not yet able to upload the picture because I am not a comfirmed user. I hope that somebody please will help me. (The movie poster that is uploaded could be called "Drommen - We Shall Overcome" because the original title of the film is "Drommen" and the English title of the film is "We Shall Overcome"). --Moviedk (talk) 13:48, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The word 'free'
Hi, I have a question to do with the name Wikipedia The Free Encyclopedia. Does the word 'free' refer to the freedom of speech or the fact that it can be used free of charge?

Thank you in advance.

MG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.8.139.79 (talk) 13:56, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It has to do with the fact that all of the content in the encyclopedia is released into the public domain under a WP:CC-BY-SA license. If you want to use content from Wikipedia, even for commercial purposes, you are free to do so (as long as you provide attribution).  Ryan Vesey  Review me!  14:29, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * While your intent was correct, your statement is very wrong. If something is released into the public domain, that means that anyone can use it for any purpose without any restrictions. Something released under the CC-BY-SA license, on the other hand, does have restrictions: most importantly, you must attribute the original source (that's the "BY") and you must allow others to reuse your version under the same terms (that's the "SA"). BTW, the "CC" refers to the set of 6 different but related licenses and the organization that created them. Anomie⚔ 20:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you.

MG — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.8.139.79 (talk) 14:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * See also The Free Encyclopedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:29, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The correct short answer is "Both", it is used in the freedom of speech and free of charge senses. Roger (talk) 14:16, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Search bar when using a mobile phone
hi,

i'm trying to use m.wikipedia.org on my mobile phone - when the main page opens i get today's featured article, but there is no search bar. even if i use www.wikipedia.org on my phone - there is no search bar. I am using a Samsung-SGH-820 mobile phone. i've tried to scroll and search for the search bar, but it is not there.

your assistance will be highly appreciated.

thanks 15:09, 19 May 2012 (UTC)Susan k ug (talk)
 * There is Wikipedia (mobile) that may help. Also in  the bottom left hand corner you will see "Desktop view" - click this and you will see the normal page with search.Moxy (talk) 15:20, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

"Template:" in External Links?
Hello,

I was editing the external links on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupo_Vidanta#External_links and it shows each link now as "Template:". I'm not sure why or how it did that. Please assist.

Thank you,

Edward Yang — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edyang (talk • contribs) 15:30, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * You used wrong link syntax in . An editor has fixed it. See Help:Link. I can see how you were mislead by the existing use of Official website. That is a template and not a link format (although the template produces a link). PrimeHunter (talk) 17:37, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you PrimeHunter!

Unable to remove "Advertisement" label
For the page Grupo Vidanta it still has an Advertisement label even after numerous edits by various users. What is remaining that needs to be edited or removed to have that label not applicable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edyang (talk • contribs) 15:39, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * After a bunch of fixes by myself and others I removed the advertisement tag. That's no guarantee it won't appear again, but I think it reads less like an advertisement now, so we'll see.  Equazcion  ( talk )  15:55, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * fixed bare URL,s ..but still have dead link. Article has greatly improved from an ad in the last 24 hours.Moxy (talk) 16:04, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Would anybody be opposed to removing the dead link? That sentence has 2 other sources that aren't the dead link.  Some of the sources need a language parameter added as well.  Ryan Vesey  Review me!  17:12, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Go ahead, no need to ask :)  Equazcion  ( talk )  17:26, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ - .Moxy (talk) 19:50, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks everyone! - Edyang

The information provided in the article misses a few facts which could be incorporated.
The link of the article - Krishna Desai

Mr. Late Krishna Desai was a secretary of Mr. K. G. Malkani (Advocate High Court) who was residing at 31, Khairuddin Masjid Chaal, Dr. Ambedkar Road, Opposite Kala Chaunki Post Office, Bombay - 400012. Mr. K. G. Malkani if I can recollect held a very high position with Revolutionary Communist Party of India (RCPI). Various leaders like Mr. E M S Namudripaad, Mr. S. A. Daange, Mr. Jyoti Basu, Mr. K. L. Bajaj, Mr. A. B. Nair (Editor in Cheif - FREE PRESS JOURNAL) often held meetings at Mr. Malkani's residence. Mr. K. G. Malkani devoted his entire life to the upliftment of the labor class and never took a brief from the employers. Today he is 94 years old and nostalgically remembers his past. I am his son Rajan Malkani (Advocate) who has provided you the aforesaid information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.29.152 (talk) 17:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * You should make this suggestion on the talk page for the article. Read the policy on reliable source and conflict-of-interest.  RudolfRed (talk) 20:52, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Topic bans
Is there a way to see whether a user has been topic banned by looking at their userpage or something related to it? I see these various lists of bans, including indefinite bans and other kinds of "restrictions" (including topic bans), but (a) you'd have to review the list to see if the user is listed AND (b) there doesn't seem to be any automatic updating of those lists - they appear to be quite incomplete.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's any way to do that, aside from combing through their talk page history. Topic bans aren't implemented in any technical way.  Equazcion  ( talk )  20:03, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That seems wrong to me. I guess I'll have to think about how to propose a change so one can more easily see if an editor is restricted other than a block. Should it be the policy pump or somewhere else that I raise this? (Has it been raised before?)--Bbb23 (talk) 03:17, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It should probably go to VP proposals. I don't know if it's been raised before. I think it might be seen as inviting the community to participate in enforcing user sanctions, so I have a feeling it wouldn't do that well. I've been wrong before though.  Equazcion  ( talk )  11:54, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Watchlist
WP:ANI is on my watchlist. For some reason, changes to ANI disappeared from a display of my watchlist a few minutes ago. Given all the hoopla about watchlists recently, is this a bug or something else?--Bbb23 (talk) 19:48, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I still see ANI on my watchlist. I'm running a script that does some stuff with the new feature though, not sure if that could be affecting things (I doubt it would). Try un-watching and re-watching it maybe?  Equazcion  ( talk )  19:53, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It came back on its own after I ate lunch - maybe it was hungry.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:11, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Or maybe you went blind from hunger? Both plausible explanations.  Equazcion  ( talk )  20:21, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah, I used the computer to do finds (I don't trust my eyes with that many entries). But things get odder still. At the moment, this forum doesn't appear on the displayed list. This is really weird and very annoying.--Bbb23 (talk) 03:14, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd take it to WP:VPT if it persists. Or just eat something again, worked last time.  Equazcion  ( talk )  11:51, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're very funny. We need more of that here, thanks. I'll try to, uh, watch it.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:11, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Make sure you are not hiding some entries at Special:Preferences. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:12, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

What happens if I change names?
What happens if I change names?-- Deathlaser : Chat  19:53, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It depends how you do it. WP:FRESHSTART is one way, see details there. If you want to move all your current account history to a new name, there's WP:RENAME, again see the details there.  Equazcion  ( talk )  19:57, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm....I just want to delete my talk page. Not lose my Rollback and all my contribs.-- Deathlaser : Chat  20:03, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * there is only one solution...Mfd my talk age.-- Deathlaser : Chat  20:11, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe your talk page history needs to be preserved as a record, so it couldn't be deleted. I'm assuming you know you can blank it yourself though.  Equazcion  ( talk )  20:20, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Because your talkpage is a major venue where you edits get scrutinized, it does is not deleted at request (except specific revisions which might have obscene remarks by some vandal). If you want to get any other page in your user-space deleted, simply place db-user on top of it. -- lTopGunl (talk) 21:27, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

CSD A7
To prove an articles notability, you usually need to provide a refrence to a reliable site. I provide at least one, sometimes even two. Still they are deleted under A7. Can an admin please have look at my deleted articles, you will notice they have references. Please give me an example of what I could've dome for them not to be deleted under A7.-- Deathlaser : Chat  19:56, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You should read Notability in full, it states at the top of the page that subjects can be considered notable when they "have gained sufficiently significant attention by the world at large" (emphasis mine). One or two reliable sources generally does not constitute significant coverage. I cannot view the deleted articles in question so cannot comment on the sources specifically. Regards. (I realise now that WP:A7 makes it clear that is is independent of the standard notability guideline, but still..)  Я ehevkor ✉  21:00, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking at them, MENOG only links to the company website, so thats no good, 6PE had a few sources, but which show it is not what the articles said it is and Detail fabrication just links to a couple of yellow pages style directory sites, no good either-- Jac 16888 Talk 21:12, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Sources written in other languages
Is it acceptable to cite a source if it is written wholly in a language other than English? Another editor has made additions to an article citing sources written in Spanish. As I cannot read Spanish, I personally cannot check the veracity of the claims. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:29, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It is acceptable, but if there is an English alternative it's better. Google translate is usually sufficient for verifying claims in non-english sources, it will manage Spanish just fine-- Jac 16888 Talk 21:34, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've never used google translate before (I hadn't realised it's not a program you have to download), and it did manage the translation just fine (albeit a bit clunky in places...) As a consequence, I've removed the source as it didn't support the claim. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:22, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Is there a specific venue on en.WP where a user can request verification of non-English sources by other users who can read the language concerned? Roger (talk) 14:55, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Technically you can tag the source with Template:Source need translation, but speaking as basically the only person who has anything to do with that cat, I can tell that you one of two things will happen. If the source is in a language that google translation can handle well enough to be intelligible I will probably add a link to the google translation on the article page, and if it's not, well nothing really happens-- Jac 16888 Talk 14:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I was hoping there is a page somewhere on en.WP where a user can post: "In article "Foo" please verify reference number 14, a news website in Russian" then a Russian speaking wikignome does so and reports back "Verified" or "Not Verified". Where is the correct place to propose and discuss setting up such a facility? Roger (talk) 15:12, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd say then you're best of asking somebody from Translators available or Babel to give it a once-over-- Jac 16888 Talk 15:16, 20 May 2012 (UTC)