Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 October 8

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= October 8 =

music &etc
How to find song lyric? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.26.233 (talk) 04:27, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Google or your favorite search engine. Or the Reference Desk.  RudolfRed (talk) 04:30, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Use a search engine such as Google. When I look for lyrics, I normally start my search with the word "lyrics" followed by whatever I know which might be just a few words of the lyrics or possibly the artist name and song title.  But you won't find too many lyrics on Wikipedia since they're almost always copyrighted.  Dismas |(talk) 06:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * And not all of the sites you will find actually have permission to put the song lyrics online. As Wikipedia editors, we take pride in the fact that our encyclopedia is free content that anyone can copy and improve. If we discover someone has added copyrighted material (including copyrighted song lyrics) to our site without permission, we quickly remove it unless we are sure our use is legal. We don't even allow linking to the infringing sites. PleaseStand (talk) 06:53, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * See also Lyrics and poetry. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:44, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

CSD log going awol
User:Valenciano/CSD log the last auto addition caused a load of entries to disappear. How to fix? Valenciano (talk) 07:28, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've restored most of the missing content by undoing the bad edit and re-adding the newest entry. The line describing Visa iskcon didn't get saved, so if you want to remember that you will have to edit it in manually. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Looking for talk page template when F5ing non-free image
Is there a specific talk page template to notify the uploader when F5ing an image? -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 08:30, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Template:Orphaned seems fit for this purpose. Klilidiplomus+Talk 08:40, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 08:41, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Morgan horse: rendering error
I don't know the right place to report this.

In the article Morgan horse, everything from the last sentence of the third paragraph onwards is rendered in boldface. The tabs at the top ("Edit", "View History", etc.) are also affected. I have checked this in three different browsers. The misrendering starts within the template "". There was no problem before the most recent edit, made by ZéroBot. Its edit did not affect that template, or the paragraph containing it; it merely added a category.

I had hoped to fix the problem myself, but I am mystified. Maproom (talk) 08:58, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I made a null edit to the page and that seems to have fixed it. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 09:15, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Such a simple tool, such a powerful result. I look forward to finding another opportunity to use it. :-) Maproom (talk) 11:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit an article heading
I have recently created a new article, how do I edit the article heading? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dward348 (talk • contribs) 09:05, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

The page is called "Jcb insurance services", I would like to change it to "JCB Insurance Services Ltd". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dward348 (talk • contribs) 09:06, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I have moved it for you. I would point out that as it stands, the article is likely to be deleted, as (among other things) it does not give evidence of the company's notability. Maproom (talk) 09:12, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * ... and the previous version of the article had been deleted in August for the same reason, as you were notified on your talk page. - David Biddulph (talk) 10:26, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Proceudre for opening a new wiki page for my company.
I want to open a new wiki page for my company. What is the procedure for the same? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.181.149.113 (talk) 10:19, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You can do that through Articles for creation, but please read this document completely before proceeding. -- Anbu121 ( talk me ) 10:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * See also FAQ/Organizations. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:37, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

una america
We are just una america lies — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.164.69.81 (talk) 11:32, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello, just una america lies, and welcome to Wikipedia. Do you have a question for us about how to use the site or find your way around? -  Ka renjc

I have other pictures
I have other pictures of Registerd Historic Sites that I would like to upload, however, the upload link to the site(s) is no longer available. How can I upload these figures to the proper historic site? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blastoids (talk • contribs) 14:04, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your uploads seen at commons:Special:Contributions/Blastoids. Submissions for the Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2012 competition ended September 30 but you are more than welcome to upload additional images outside the competition. Pages at http://commons.wikimedia.org always have an "Upload file" link under "Participate" in the left pane. I didn't participate in the competition but I think you get an upload interface more resembling the competition by instead selecting your country at commons:Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments upload. You can find general information about Commons at commons:Help:Contents, and ask questions at commons:Commons:Help desk. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I completly agree with this issue. editors have begun to trying to impress each other. Look at some of their take pages. "oh, xxxxx, I can't believe your writing me. You have been an editor for so long and I for such a short time".... It's become silly. Yet the "founder" plays a hands off rule (enron) until he needs our money. I'm about to think i've been a vic to a giant fraud. Casperjo22 (talk) 07:03, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Deletions by the Uniformed
After being a part of the Wiki community for many years I am finding it more difficult to understand how "Administrators" can use absolute power to delete pages they "feel" are not worthy of Wiki presence. I have been the author of a Wiki presence for a small technically forward software company. I have found that those that deleted the presence have no technical background to make a determination of relevance. The company listing - Stone Bond Technologies - had also gone through editorial review, which I find n=more disturbing in that after the review it was again deleted by people not even associated with the review. This has got to stop as there seem to be a few very power hungry people without perspective and knowledge determining the speech rights of the masses or contributors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.104.60.30 (talk) 14:19, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * See Articles for deletion/Stone Bond Technologies where the correct procedure was followed and the consensus reached determined that the article failed to show that the subject met the notability standards for companies. Process on Wikipedia is impersonal, your remarks about individual participants in the process are unacceptable. As far as I can see they followed the correct procedure and applied the policies correctly. Roger (talk) 14:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * ... also see the declined AFC at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Stone Bond Technologies. It won't have helped that the article was being written by someone with a conflict of intersst, so was written in a promotional manner. - David Biddulph (talk) 14:48, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * There is no "speech right" on Wikipedia, and Wikipedia doesn't host "presences" or publish "listings". It's an encyclopaedia, and it contains articles about subjects that are notable.  Expert knowledge is not a requirement for editing, because Wikipedia is a tertiary source that uses only material that has been previously published in a reliable source.  Stone Bond Technologies was first deleted on 25 August, having been proposed for deletion because of its promotional tone and failure to assert notability.  It was restored on 13 September when the proposal was contested, and it was then discussed at WP:Articles for deletion.  Here is the deletion discussion, which was closed as delete and salt. Any administrator could then delete it as part of their housekeeping duties, and one duly did.  Other articles under the title Stone bond technologies  have also been deleted as promotional and failing to demonstrate notability in 2007 and 2009.  Someone clearly wants there to be a Wikipedia article about this company, but appears incapable of producing any sourced evidence that the company satisfies the general notability guideline or the notability criteria for companies.  If such evidence is produced, then there can be an article about this company on Wikipedia, although it cannot now be recreated without going through the review process.  Without it, the article just does not belong on Wikipedia. -  Ka renjc 14:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Unknown account
So, I decided to come back to Wikipedia. I had left due to an extremely negative experience with a moderator. When I requested my login details, I was given not one, but two account names! This account, and one named Speedhash1780. Considering that it's against the rules to have more than one account(sockpuppetry), how do I deactivate/delete/remove the other account? NealCruco (talk) 14:56, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Accounts can be blocked from editing, and be renamed, but not deleted. Special:Contributions/Speedhash1780 shows no edits and Special:Contributions/NealCruco only shows your post here. Sock puppetry doesn't disallow having multiple accounts if they are unused for editing (there are other circumstances where it's also permitted). Which account had the negative experience? And does "Unknown account" mean you didn't create one of the linked accounts? PrimeHunter (talk) 15:08, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't remember creating Speedhash1780. And I may have had it when I was unregistered, but I was sure it was on this account. NealCruco (talk) 16:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Speedhash1780 was created 14 months ago, see Special:CentralAuth/Speedhash1780. - David Biddulph (talk) 16:20, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

creating columns
i am sorry for the silly question, but i am trying to create columns on my talk page, and they work ok, it's just that i get the following "| align="left" valign="top" |" after each one. how can i fix this? thank you! oh, i'm using the col-begin, col-break, and col-end. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Simply a missing hyphen.  is not the same as  . I've corrected it for you. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * ... and it wasn't on your talk page, but on your user page. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:13, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you! FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:53, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Don't be sorry for asking the question - that is the purpose of this page. Roger (talk) 16:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

seeking information/data on early history of page protection
Hello -- as part of a large-scale study of emergent phenomena in human social systems, I am trying to determine the role of protection/semi-protection in the creation of consensus and the resolution of disputes. I posted this question at the talk page for "Protection Policy" last week, but thought to ask here in case someone might be able to point me to a good resource or contact.

I have been trying to determine the protection status of pages before around 12/2005, when the Protection Logs start providing edit=autoconfirmed/edit=sysop information in the edit summary. Prior to 12/2005 it is hard to determine when a page is edit or move protected, and it is also hard to determine, if it is edit protected, what the level of that protection amounts to (e.g., sysop only, autoconfirmed, etc.) For example, the GWB log shows a number of cases where an editor is listed protecting a page, but examination of the edit history around that time shows that anonymous IPs still are able to edit.

Is there any reliable source of information on what the exact status of a particular page was before 12/2005? Perhaps (e.g.) records might have been kept on a separate server, or may be accessible in ugly but machine-readable form?

Also, is there any reliable source of information as to what a protection meant for users in this period?

Finally, can anyone point me to a good contact for questions of this sort? (Largely technical questions about details of Wikipedia policies, and requests for access to archival data on site functioning.)

Many thanks for any help; you may contact me on my talk page, or here, as you please! Dedeo sfi (talk) 15:14, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * MediaWiki did not have a "semi-protection" feature (which was added in version 1.6) before December 22, 2005. Move protection did exist in MediaWiki 1.4, but that version of the software did not add distinguishing information to the log. Also, pre-1.6 move protection worked differently, applying to the newest 1% of accounts instead of just those created within the last four days. I think the additional ten-edit threshold was added even later. See 675, 1735, and mw:Special:Code/MediaWiki/12207.


 * However, I'm not in a position to explain any discrepancy between the protection log (which in fact was originally maintained manually) and the actual article status; you may want to ask further questions at Village pump (technical), and for open access research, you may request technical support from the Wikimedia Foundation; see m:Research:Committee and m:Research:FAQ. PleaseStand (talk) 20:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for this detailed response, PleaseStand; this is very helpful, both directly for the work I'm doing, and as a pointer to additional sources of information. Cheers! Dedeo sfi (talk) 20:32, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Help with colour tables, with headings
Hi team,

Im trying to create four boxes that are in a block formation. I have tried two and get them fairly even but when i duplicate the code it put them in column order.

they need to be even, top lef, top right, bottom left and bottom right. I am trying to put colour in and its proving difficult.

the blue one on the right looks good, nice and clear, formatted etc, but i cant get the rest

ive looked on the FAQ's but i cant find anything like this. Help!

-- unsigned entry by 80.79.208.19 (talk) 8 October 2012‎


 * I'm afraid interleaving wiki code for tables with HTML &lt;div&gt;—&lt;/div&gt; tags is not a good idea. Not sure if that is a source of your problems, anyway would suggest to try enclosing every &lt;div&gt; entirely in its own table's cell... Here's my approach:


 * Hope that would be helpful somehow... --CiaPan (talk) 19:09, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Covers/Images on Music Pages
When editing music pages there is a box that is on the left with artist information. I am creating an album page for an artist and I cannot figure out how to put the cover/image in it. It always shows up as a website. Is there any directions or tutorials on it because I can't find anything. Thank you, ukiss2ne14lyfe


 * Images cannot be displayed directly from a url. The image needs to be uploaded to Wikipedia. You can use the File Upload Wizard. But please read Image use policy before proceeding. -- Anbu121 ( talk me ) 18:08, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Inclusion Standards / Reliable Sources
My article was declined by editor Spartaz who is no longer an admin and is therefore unable to help me with my article.

It was declined because I needed to provide two detailed independent reliable sources that discuss the subject in detail.

I included six Wikipedia references where my content is quoted and eight Religious Tolerance references where my content is quoted, which I believe fulfills the requirements as per your link to "inclusion standards" and "reliable sources".

Obviously I am missing something. I would appreciate any help in getting this article "Christian Gays" accepted. Thank you.

http&#58;//ChristianGays.com (talk) 17:46, 8 October 2012 (UTC)ma3ry
 * Ask Spartaz directly. He can help you with this, because it isn't an administrator action.  -- Jayron  32  18:01, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * One doesn't have to be a Wikipedia administrator to review article submissions. By "admin actions", Spartaz is referring to blocking users, deleting or protecting articles, etc., none of which apply in your case. PleaseStand (talk) 18:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * At present the article Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Christian Gays does not contain one single inline reference, and in particular does not reference the multiple independent reliable sources which need to have covered it in depth in order for it to pass the criterion of notability. Without this, the article is not acceptable. --ColinFine (talk) 22:31, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

changes
I added some material to the Long John Nebel bio, but I can't find out how to "summarize" it... Where and how do I do this? And how do I send this present text? By clicking on "Save Page"? That doesn't make any sense...

I regularly edit my own Wikipedia data, with no such problems!

(Just after sending this, I received a note telling me NOT to give my email address...!)

James Randi  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.228.118 (talk) 18:13, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Do you mean an "edit summary"? It gets written in a box that appears below the edit window.  You just write a description of what your edit changes.  (It appears in the history to help people determine which edit did what without looking at each diff.)  The is an option that lets you request to be notified if you forget to enter an edit summary (if you get the warning I believe you can just click save again and it won't warn you a second time.) RJFJR (talk) 18:21, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * See more at Help:Edit summary. The option RJFJR refers to is only for logged in users. Wikipedia uses the same software for articles and discussions so yes, you press "Save page". We give help for most matters in public so others can see the discussion and contribute to it. I think we give ample warning about the email issue. The top of this help desk says: "Do not provide your email address or any other contact information. Answers will be provided on this page only." The top of the edit window also says in red: "do not provide your email address or any other contact details". The first time you press "Save page" with an email address you see this message which includes: "If you still wish to continue with your edit, you may hit "Save page" again below, and it will be submitted as is." Your email address was saved so you must have hit Save page again without removing the address. Another editor removed it. This is a very public page and an email address here can cause problems such as spammers sending you junk mail. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Deleting Empty Pages
Hello Wikipedian,

I would like to know why the charts in the NATO phonetic alphabet article Nato phonetic alphabet have so many empty pages print in the printed version. Is there any way you or the user can delete them and still have the pages numbered correctly?

GT — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gtingreenbelt (talk • contribs) 19:16, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * If you have Internet Explorer then see Help:Printable. There may still be issues with some pages. Can you try another browser? The print preview may reveal in advance whether you will get blank pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:08, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Are Op-Eds OR?
I'm having a discussion with two more experienced editors in which I'm told that an Op-Ed piece, labeled by the newspaper as "opinion," written by a founder of the group being written about and an advisory board member of the same group, is not OR. If I'm correct in believing that primary sources, as authors, constitute incorporation of OR, how does one go about getting the matter settled properly? The discussion is at the NORNB under Second Vermont Republic. Thanks. Vttor (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Facts, opinions, and ideas that have previously been published in reliable sources (including primary sources) are not original research in themselves. Original research arises when Wikipedia editors combine or synthesize the information to form new facts, opinions, or ideas, which Wikipedia policy forbids. In the case you mentioned, a Wikipedia editor had observed that another source quoted the op-ed yet did not specifically cite it. The editor did not cite a published source to back up his observation, which is original research. You should find (and cite) a reliable source that actually makes the comparison or help build a consensus for separately mentioning (or even not mentioning) Sanford's arguments, which is what Carolmooredc proposed. You may wish to refer to WP:PRIMARY. PleaseStand (talk) 21:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

My book seems to be frozen
My Book The Sacredness of Being seems to be frozen. Please advise Fred wage--Fredwage (talk) 20:58, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I see you are editing both User:Fredwage/Books/The Sacredness of Being and Book:The Sacredness of Being. What do you mean by "frozen"? Does it stop at some point when you click one of the download links? PrimeHunter (talk) 21:13, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

About the donation I made.
Hi. I recently tried to donate 5 dollar to wikipedia. During the process, it said that wikipedia cannot accept my credit card as donation. So I was like 'maybe next time'. But when I checked my transaction record, it said that I donated to Wikipedia when 5 dollar was deducted. I was wondering if you guys got the donation. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.202.203 (talk) 22:02, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * This Help Desk is monitored by editors who are volunteers. You need to contact the Wikimedia Foundation to check whether the donation was received. Thank you for your donations. -- Anbu121 ( talk me ) 22:23, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Winster.com
The deletion log for Talk:Winster.com says it is for regrettably inappropriate use of the talk page. How can I retrieve the deleted page, and how can I find out what was inappropriate about it? Ddrhl (talk) 22:08, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You need to contact the administrator who deleted it, DragonflySixtyseven in this case. -- Anbu121 ( talk me ) 22:14, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Annotated picture
Hi, what is the technique used to create the annotations at

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Volcanoes_Panorama_at_Lanzarote.jpg

?

86.160.83.247 (talk) 22:56, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Please see Help:Gadget-ImageAnnotator. -- Anbu121 ( talk me ) 23:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Check this page out. –– Anonymouse321 (talk • contribs) 23:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks. 86.160.83.247 (talk) 00:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC)