Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 September 1

= September 1 =

PROD
Today I nominated an article for deletion in terms of notability. Sophie Morgan. The article had been previously up for AfD several years ago (and is essentially a re-write) and had a debate which ensued in it being deleted. I realise that PROD should not be used for articles that have previously been debated or deleted. I deleted the PROD tag and an editor added a couple of links, but there are still concerns about notability of the subject: Is she notable as an artist? Is she notable as a presenter? I tried to add the article to the pages to be debated on a second listing on today's log of AfD but the editor who deleted who contributed the links also deleted my entry on the log. Have no idea how to get this debated for a second time. Any ideas how to proceed?? Dont know the procedure for listing AfD for previously deleted articles. Cheers. ¬¬¬¬ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Partitas (talk • contribs) 17:38, 3 September 2012 (UTC) Partitas (talk) 19:12, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to suggest WP:VPP.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 21:35, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks!

Loading wikipedia pages result in "busy javascript"
Since a few days or weeks back some javacript has been added that cause (Linux) Firefox to display "this page may be busy". Could this script be fixed or removed? obviously it worked previously.. Electron9 (talk) 01:29, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Same here. Whenever I try to do certain things I get the same popup that says "script on this page may be busy" etc... and it tells me it is being caused by "http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki&only=scripts&skin=monobook&version=20120903T133612Z:70". It sure bugs me. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:22, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

WP:ALT
Hi. I would like to write an alt for this image, but don't know what to write. Can someone help me? Thanks, TBrandley 02:10, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The alternate text should basically be a short description of what the image would look like if you were describing it over the telephone to someone. Thus the picture at right would have "alt=A caucasian male with greying hair wearing a black suit, a red and black striped tie, sitting in front of a bookshelf and the American Flag." or something like that.  -- Jayron  32  04:50, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Reassessing quality rating of articles
Hi there. I've been trying to find some guidance on the reassessment of articles and their quality rating within a particular WikiProject − in this case, WP The Beatles. Specifically, about how one goes about getting the article reassessed, pre GA level (where the process is quite clear, obviously). There are a number of George Harrison song articles I've been working on, all currently Cs on the project's quality scale, that I believe could well be Bs now. Looking in the edit history and talk pages for similar articles, I've noticed examples of editors contributing quite heavily to an article and then simply promoting it on the quality scale themselves − is that an acceptable approach, does anyone know? Is it okay to carry out the reassessment oneself? I have the books and reference material to give all the Harrison articles the improvements they need content-wise, so I'm happy to put the work in − in other words, the genuine quality of an article is more important to me than the "score"/rating itself. On the other hand, when the work's all done on one article, I'd like to see it acknowledged in the quality rating, and then move on to the next article. Would appreciate some guidance on this. Many thanks, JG66 (talk) 03:07, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not wrong to do it yourself, but I don't do it because I tend to falsely inflate ratings (in general, but particularly if I've worked on the article). You can ask at the relevant Wikiproject. - Purplewowies (talk) 03:15, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, Purplewowies. If anything, I tend to set standards that are a little on the too-high side (think so, anyway), but I'll probably do a bit of both: ie, carry out my own quality reassessments, and leave messages on the article talk pages and/or the WP page. Thanks again. Cheers, JG66 (talk) 04:40, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Nevado del Tolima
I recently submitted some additions to your "Nevado del Tolima" entry. These were cancelled by a reader because no reference was provided. I then submitted a reference only to find that this has been ignored and no progress has been made. Now I'm seeking help on how to proceed. This is only a minor correction. Cheers, Steve Ingham Inghams3 (talk) 03:37, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You need a reliable source. - Purplewowies (talk) 03:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You also asked this same question back on August 26th. The same answers then also apply today.  See Help desk/Archives/2012 August 26.  I notice you responded last week that you had found a reliable source.  Do you still have access to that source?  Do you need help with citing the source?  No edits have been made to the article you note since you last asked the question.  See This.  -- Jayron  32  04:48, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

You are right. I did ask much the same question last week. And you are right in that no further edits have been made since. The reason is that, since my previous edit was discarded, I don't wish to repeat my edit only to have it discarded again! I made a few typos in my edit and wish to correct them. I also want to insert the reference  as the source but do not know how to do this to your satisfaction. This is why I an requesting help. I don't wish to waste your time embarking on a trial and error effort so could you please give me a hand. I've tried reading all the instructions but, without any experience, they have not made things any easier. Thanks for your interest. Cheers, Steve InghamInghams3 (talk) 00:15, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

These here Internet tubes got me confused
I added an ext. link to Blanche Noyes, but it's not behaving properly. If I stick a "http://" in front, it seems to work, but I just want to doublecheck that this doesn't break them tubes for some arcane reason. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:50, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I fixed it. See Help:Links. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 09:02, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd still like some sort of explanation why this fix is okay and also why some sites don't have that part. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:21, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It is needed for the Wikipedia software to recognize links and tell them apart from strings such as "wikipedia.org". All websites use "http://" or "https://", but some modern browsers (such as newer versions of Chrome and Firefox) hides it. jonkerz ♠talk 10:13, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The URL must start with a supported URI scheme.  and   are always supported. ,  ,  ,  ,   and   will create a link and an icon but require an agent registered in the browser. As Jonkerz noted, a lot of browsers now hide the URI in the address bar, but if you copy and paste from the address bar, the URI will be included in the paste. ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 10:40, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. P.S. I did copy/paste it from the Firefox address bar. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:30, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Sheenagh Pugh
This page,, which is a biographical article about me, keeps getting vandalised by someone who leaves fake employment details. I have to keep visiting and deleting them. I don't know what ISP means but I gather it's something like a traceable address that gets left whenever someone visits and edits. Can't it be made impossible for whoever uses that address to post on this article?

I can't log in under my own name because I've forgotten not just my password but my username so I can't get the password back because it says give your username to retrieve password, and I've lost both. 81.153.87.237 (talk) 08:58, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Vandalism will always be a problem on Wikipedia as long as it is an open project. We do generally not protect articles unless it receives a lot of vandalism, but I will try to keep a look at the article and remove dubious claims. It looks like your username is Sheenaghpugh; you can restore your passoword at Special:PasswordReset or create a new account if you want to. jonkerz ♠talk 09:31, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * (ISP = Internet service provider). jonkerz ♠talk 09:45, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Signature customization
Hi all my username denotes a street junction. I have experimented some but would much appreciate 2 technical tips. 1st the appearance of a wooden post between "Market St." and "Diamond St." and 2nd if there is some code that tapers the to 2 or 3 degrees to give the "sign" depth and 3d perception. This is my code as it stands now:
 * Market St. I Diamond St.

Also better font for a old 18th/19th century street sign? Thanks! Market St. || Diamond St. 12:16, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Please keep discussion in one place. I see there is already a reply at Village pump (technical)/Archive 131. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:52, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Page title
Hi,

I am trying to edit Colm O' Donoghue,s page. Can anyone help me with two questions:-

1) How do I edit the title page? I want it to read Colm O'Donoghue Jockey instead of Colm O'Donoghue.

2) How do I upload photographs without violating copyright?

Thank you in advance

Eileenog — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eileenog (talk • contribs) 12:30, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * 1. You'd have to move the page to retitle it (which autoconfirmed users can do), but why would you want the title to be "Colm O'Donoghue (jockey)" when there are no other Colm O'Donoghues?


 * 2. If you upload photographs you have taken yourself, you have the copyright so you won't violate anyone else's.


 * Hope this helped! A boat   that can float!   (watch me float!)  12:56, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * A boat that can float is right, however if reliable sources refer to the subject matter by his name (sans the "jockey") then Article_titles would advise to leave the article as is. To make a new page as described above when media sources do not refer to "jockey" in the name would fit appear as "Colm O'Donoghue (jockey)" with a lowercase "j", if they are pics out of media there may be ways to "fair use" a few in low resolution without a problem.  Market St. I Diamond St.  13:00, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello Marketdiamond and thank you for adding to my response, but I think you would have to have a very good reason to claim fair use; e.g. if the jockey's dead and there wouldn't be a chance anyone could take a picture themselves. As the jockey seems to be alive, there probably wouldn't need to be any fair use pictures. A boat   that can float!   (watch me float!)  13:46, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, exactly. There's an article I contribute to where fans kept trying to add fair-use images, and they were removed because it was possible to find a free alternative. However, if a person finds an image that doesn't have a license attached (which one should always assume is fair use), they may be able to contact the owner and ask them to release it under a free license congruent with Wikipedia's use. - Purplewowies (talk) 14:20, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * He is apparently still alive, so the fair use option is a no-go. You can add pictures you take yourself, or ones taken by others, if they license it with one of the acceptable File copyright tags/Free licenses SPhilbrick  (Talk)  15:02, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Still alive? That makes it somewhat possible to get your own image of him ;-) Sorry I had assumed otherwise.  Hope my link helped you with the title stuff! Marketdiamond (talk) 20:52, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Could someone please fix this botched RfB?
Here a new user didn't do a good job of setting up his RfB. I had to transclude it to WP:RfB, but there are still a few problems (e.g. the time it's supposed to finish doesn't show up). Apparently after 7 months I still don't know some things about wikicode. Help would be appreciated. A boat  that can float!   (watch me float!)  13:39, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Never mind; Rcsprinter closed it. A boat  that can float!   (watch me float!)  14:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Lassad Nouioui
The page is getting filled with incorrect information from Rival fans of Celtic and Rangers. I have tried to correct 3 times but they keep changing the information. Could the editing option be removed and it be restore back to any comment before Celtic Rangers — Preceding unsigned comment added by JadMock (talk • contribs) 17:15, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * See WP:DR and WP:RFPP RudolfRed (talk) 23:41, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Astrology & Horoscope articles
Is there a Wikipedia administrator who knows about psuedoscience or any project about psuodoscience I can talk to, because I am trying to keep collaboration and factual information with the Western astrology and Chinese zodiac signs. What I am trying to think is making two new articles to redirect where all the signs and information are in one article. An article for the list and facts of Western astrology and one for the Chinese zodiac, and other horoscopes. There are repeats of sabatage deletions from among IP and confirmed users who believe it is useless, when from earlier users it was stated as reliable as facts. In truth I am just stating the facts, the article doesn't mean it is true, it's only stating mythological details, such as a person born in the year of Rat, it is only stating folkore. I would really like to make two articles where I can redirect each sign and paste in to the articles for Western astrology and Chinese zodiac. Check also on WP:RSN.--GoShow (...............) 18:16, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * If you persist in accusing contributors of making 'sabotage deletions' to articles, you are liable to find yourself blocked from editing. What you appear to be proposing is a WP:POVFORK, which would be contrary to policy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:01, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

(There are two directly relevant WikiProjects, WikiProject Pseudoscience and WikiProject Rational Skepticism. I'm not sure what exactly you're proposing to do, but there is already a separate page for lists of astrological signs at astrological sign if that's what you mean.) - Cal Engime (talk) 21:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * From WP:RSN all I need is a way to redirect the astrological signs I am simply investigating not making accusations, at least this user had the sense to show suggestions although yes possibly more skepticism, and thank you for your cooperation.--GoShow (...............) 00:21, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Trouble when it comes to categories
I can't yet understand some categories, for instance, since Canada is aiding the Syrian rebels in the ongoing Syrian civil war, would that make it suitable to categorize the article into Category:Wars involving Canada? Thank you. Mark. Have a nice weekend. Mark. Sorry but I have an OCD that makes me put my name as the last thing I write haha. Mark. Alabamaboy1992 (talk) 19:33, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know how Canada aids the rebels but they do not participate in any military operations as far as I know so it doesn't belong in Category:Wars involving Canada. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:48, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

I understand now, and yes, it was removed now because they say that it's against Wikipedia policies to include the non-lethal aid. Canada was sending medical supplies. Thank you. Mark. Alabamaboy1992 (talk) 19:59, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

"Blurb" about PADRES gives incorrect date of 1979 although content of article gives correct date of 1969 for founding
Dear Wiki people,

Thanks for your good work. I don't know how to correct the "blurb" or opening paragraph, which contains the erroneous date of 1979 for the founding of the "Chicano priests organization" PADRES, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PADRES.

You have 1979 there, but the correct date of 1969 is listed in the article. I have occasionally submitted corrections or additions to other Wikipedia articles on other topics before, but don't know how to change the opening blurb.

As a result of the error, you also have PADRES incorrectly listed in the category of "Religious organizations established in 1979."

Change to 1969 and you're golden.

thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.116.79.183 (talk) 19:34, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing this out. You can edit the whole page including the lead by clicking the "Edit" tab at top of the article. I have fixed it. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:43, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Government images public domain?
The picture in this news article was taken and released by the National Park Service, a government agency. Does that mean that it's in the public domain? Because I notice when trying to upload it that there are only 7 or so agencies listed in the public domain government agency option and this isn't one of them. Of course, the US Fish and Wildlife Service isn't listed on there either and I know for a fact that their stuff is public domain. Silver seren C 20:17, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting, which seven are listed? (NPS is US Interior Dept and USF&W is Agriculture Dept., I believe.) But there maybe a more fundamental problem.  The source you provided, says "NPS file", but how do you or we know who by, and under what license, if any, the work was created and released?  For example, the Park Service does photo contests, and asks the creator to release all rights to the NPS, but retain the right to be the sole private commercial exploiter; than it's not fully licensed and it's not the work of the NPS. (In short, I don't think the newspaper -- by itself -- is enough to determine that it was taken by an NPS employee, in the course of her work.) Alanscottwalker (talk) 20:45, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That's true, I didn't think of that. How exactly would I go about figuring out what the status of the image is then? Silver  seren C 20:54, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't know. Some people seem to be really good at tracking down where the 'original' file is on the internet (if it is on the internet).  I am not sure how they do so.  The other option is to contact the NPS.  Sorry. Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:06, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Or contact the CSM (they may be familiar with what 3rd parties like themselves can use it for) here: CSM also there is a NPS "laws and policies" contact site and this interesting page (when replacing "shen" with "yell" in the URL there is a 404).Marketdiamond (talk) 21:13, 1 September 2012 (UTC)