Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 April 21

= April 21 =

1999/2000 marin quake 5
my question is. what year is the bike, its a quake 5 dual supension     the frame has a girl like frame red body  black touque tube  had org black forks upgrater to manitue sx fronts   bike it better in great shape   just wondering what it worth    lots a new parts n what yrs it it    thanx markyd  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.11.227.211 (talk) 01:38, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * This is the help desk for how to use Wikipedia. Try the reference desk at WP:RDM, where general knowledge questions are handled.  Your question is hard to read and parse, so please consider cleaning it up for clarity and readability before reposting it.  RudolfRed (talk) 02:12, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Adding additional information to punk rock
I'm trying to help with one of the topics on punk rock about how "Pretty Fly" from The Offspring's single reached platinum and by adding a referance. Suddenly the page then come up with something like this when I try to add/fix the reference (I'm glad i reviewed the page before even saving) "Cite error: A set of tags are missing the closing < /ref >; see the help page", Please help me to fix this situation, I'd appreciate it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.147.135.87 (talk) 08:09, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Did you format your citation like the following:


 * . --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  08:35, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

galapagos duck new website
In the article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galapagos_Duck - the galapagos duck website link has changed and sould point to http://galapagosduck.net/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.164.37.67 (talk) 08:22, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Next time you want something changed, you should ask on the article's Talk Page.  Rojomoke (talk) 08:38, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

i have download did someting on tocco lite it says update to pc and download in red box on sceen
i have download did someting on tocco lite it says update to pc and download in red box on sceen — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.217.239 (talk) 09:00, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry I have no idea what you are asking. You are at the help desk for Wikipedia, which is for questions about editing Wikipedia. I see by googling that Tocco Lite is a kind of phone. Perhaps somebody at Wikipedia's computing reference desk can help you; but you will need to be clearer about what your problem is. --ColinFine (talk) 11:53, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Help needed with transclusion
I am working on the List of Freemasons article... My fellow editors have agreed that the list is overly long, and we want to break it into two articles... List of Freemasons (A - D) and List of Freemasons (E - Z) (with the expectation that the second will be split into further articles as we add more people to the list). I would like to have the same lede paragraphs for each article. And I figured that transclusion would be a good way to do this... so I created List of Freemasons/Lede paragraphs to hold the text to be transcluded. Unfortunately, this has now been tagged for speedy deletion (as a "test" edit, which it was not) ... I must be doing something wrong. I could use some help figuring out how to do it properly. Blueboar (talk) 12:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Subpages for the article namespace is not enabled in en wiki, so even if you try to transclude it, it won't work. WP:SPLIT might be of some help in your issue. --Ushau97 (talk) 13:17, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * If I understand what you want to do, use the lede text from the A-D article in the E-Z article without simply copying it (make sense, why have two or more copies of the same thing to maintain?). You might consider section.


 * I used section in Help:CS1_errors to define help text chunks that are displayed on the tracking category pages.  Works like a charm.  One place is the source but it's visible in multiple locations.  Try it.


 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:33, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I presume you meant "chunks", not chucks. And we should consider creating a template for this. -- Gadget850 (Ed) talk 13:38, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, chunks. That thought has crossed my mind.  It's really at least two templates, possibly three, right?  We should discuss this elsewhere?


 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, I am now totally lost... besides the transclusion issue, I just read WP:SPLIT, I feel overwhelmed by all "rules" and "procedures" involved with simply splitting a list article into two smaller chunks. While I have been editing WP for years... this is the first time I have attempted something like this.  So treat me as a clueless newbie.  I could definitely use a mentor to hold my hand and guide me through this.  Any takers? (contact me on my talk page if you are willing to help). Blueboar (talk) 13:49, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Subpages are disabled in mainspace so List of Freemasons/Lede paragraphs would have been treated as a mainspace article by itself, for example appearing in mainspace searches and in lists of all Wikipedia articles. It wasn't an article so I have moved it to Template:List of Freemasons lead. It's possible to transclude mainspace pages by placing a colon in front as in, but it should rarely be done. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * This is all far to confusing... please... rather than try to tell me what I did wrong... would someone come to my talk page and walk me through what I should do. Blueboar (talk) 14:02, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * You can just use Template:List of Freemasons lead in the same way you were planning to use List of Freemasons/Lede paragraphs. You don't have to understand the reason for the move. section is a more advanced method to achieve something similar. You can ignore the section suggestion if you just use Template:List of Freemasons lead. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:08, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

THANKS... I think I have it now. Blueboar (talk) 14:35, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Unreadable due to many references
This sentence is from the article Christadelphians.

"The typical Old Testament belief in unconsciousness till resurrection,[128][129][130][131][132] instead of the immortality of the soul, has been held marginally throughout the history of both Judaism and Christianity;[133][134][135][136] such sources include certain Jewish pseudepigraphal works,[137][138] rabbinical works,[139][140] Clement of Rome,[141] Arnobius in the 3rd to 4th century,[142][143][144] a succession of Arabic and Syrian Christians from the 3rd to the 8th century[145][146][147][148][149][149][150][151][152] including Aphrahat,[153][154] Ephrem,[155][156][157] Narsai,[158][159] Isaac of Nineveh (d.700),[160] and Jacob of Sarug,[161][162] Jewish commentators such as Abraham Ibn Ezra (1092–1167),[163] Maimonides (1135–1204),[164] and Joseph Albo (1380–1444),[165] and later Christians such as John Wycliffe,[166] Michael Sattler,[167][168] and many Anabaptists,[169] long before Martin Luther challenged Roman Catholic views on heaven and hell with his teaching of "soul sleep"[170] (end quote)

Between the long list structure of the sentence and the many reference numbers, it is hard to read if not unreadable. Is there a way to present the reference numbers to be less obtrusive to the reader while still allowing a reader to find the references if they really want to?

Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 14:27, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have gone through the article and bundled the citations wherever possible. It looks much better now I think, but this article needs a great deal of discretionary cutting. (I am not the person to do that with this subject matter.) Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:23, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * WP:CITECLUTTER has a few good ideas how to handle the problem. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:44, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you. That helps.  This is a complicated article on a complicated topic, which I, like Fuhghettaboutit, don't feel qualified to edit.  Wanderer57 (talk) 00:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Moen surname
I would like to add my name to the list: "Bill Moen. Inaugural member of the San Francisco Radio Hall of Fame. Morning host on Radio Station KABL for 33 years." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Billmoen (talk • contribs) 15:35, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean the list at Moen (surname)? We normally don't add people's names to lists like that unless they have an article of their own first. If you meet our notabilty criteria, maybe someone will feel inclined to write one.  You could also ask at Requests for Articles.  Rojomoke (talk) 16:00, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Redirect pages
Will someone please create two redirect pages? I would greatly appreciate it! 1) Walter D. Wilcox House ===> #REDIRECT Whittemore House (Washington, D.C.) 2) John C. Weeks House ===> #REDIRECT Whittemore House (Washington, D.C.) Best, 75.93.145.185 (talk) 15:41, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Rojomoke (talk) 15:56, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your prompt assistance. Regards, 75.93.145.185 (talk) 16:27, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Another time you can make a request at Article wizard/Redirect – or just make an account and create redirects yourself. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:56, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Does this count as fair use?
I would like to upload a map from the Episcopal Church of the Sudans website, showing their diocesan boundaries.

http://sudan.anglican.org/images/sudanmaplarge.jpg

They also have a separate map for the dioceses in South Sudan, though its in PDF format

http://sudan.anglican.org/files/sudanmap.pdf

Can either of these be added to the Episcopal Church of the Sudan wiki pages under fair use?--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 17:46, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Try asking at WP:MCQ. That's where all the copyright gurus hang out.  RudolfRed (talk) 18:01, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Their page has a "contact us" link – you could try asking them whether they are willing to release copyright in their maps. Maproom (talk) 19:12, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * It's difficult to give a definitive answer without knowing the exact purpose of the use in the article, but if it is to depict some specific geographic area, then it is very likely such a use would violate WP:NFCC#1. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  19:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I was going to use it here to illustrate the list of Dioceses. Would it be safer legally if it illustrated an article entitled List of dioceses of the Episcopal Church of Sudan?--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 20:48, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * No, nearly all maps are invalid as fair-use claims, because novel maps can be recreated and released under a free license. Either create one yourself, of ask for help at Graphics Lab/Map workshop.  -- Jayron  32  04:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I just got an e-mail from the church giving me permission to add the map to the page. I should certainly be able to now, right?--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 23:15, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Follow the directions at WP:IOWN. That may be enough, but I would say ask again at WP:MCQ.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

New template
We have {who?} and {when?} but do we need a {size?} template? I came across this with "..almost as tall as the Brooklyn Bridge.." But the BB article didn't have a height. I have since sourced and added it to both artcles. I had time this time but next time or for other readers it may be handy to just drive-by tag them.Canoe1967 (talk) 22:10, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me; however, I'd suggest maybe using a more general term like {measurement/measure?}, {scale?}, {figure?}, {number?}, {quantity?} or some such as similar vagaries are likely to occur with weights/masses, pressures, densities, volumes, etc. --Kevjonesin (talk) 03:39, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Could you like the article you are talking about, as well as the templates? Thanks. Tiggerjay (talk) 03:37, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Gravina Island Bridge is the article that I added length and height from Golden gate and Brooklyn bridges. Template:Inline tags Could use a new {how long?}, {how tall?} tag but {size?} should cover. If you look at Gravina Island Bridge before I added the numbers then it was hard to tell how big the bridge was to be.Canoe1967 (talk) 03:46, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Template:Quantity/sandbox. Quantity sounds good. The others above may be needed as well. Anyone want to tweak my sandbox, move to main space, and add to Template:Inline tags?--Canoe1967 (talk) 04:01, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * hmm, a bit of snooping has revealed an existing... ...(Template:Quantify & Template:Quantify/doc). In light of that discovery {quantity} doesn't seem very distinct ("t/f"). Although {enumerate} and/or {provide number} might work to distinguish, after reading a bit I'm starting to wonder if improvement/addition to the 'destination page(s)' of existing templated terms might be a route to focus on. --Kevjonesin (talk) 05:22, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I just modified Template:Quantity/sandbox to.{number(s) needed} I think the {quantify} that exists above is fine for now. If someone wants to improve mine more then feel free to do so. I am not sure what you mean by "...improvement/addition to the 'destination page(s)' of existing templated terms...".--Canoe1967 (talk) 20:43, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Inward Expansion
As opposed to an Outward Expansion which tends to accelerate and then slow down, Inward Expansions tend to start slowly and then accelerate.

Outward Expansions start by accelerating and then slowing down, an explosion, popping-seed case, solar wind etc.

Inward Expansions start slowly and and then accelerate. Air approaching the nozzle of an operating Central-Vac will start slowly and then accelerate, losing pressure and expanding all the way into the nozzle. Note a)the slow start b) the accelerating expansion and c)the Inward Direction.

The kids just managed to push the snowball over the edge of the snowy bank, where it accelerated as it expanded, headed for Earth's Center of Mass.

Note a) the slow start b) the accelerating expansion and c) the Inward Direction.\

Each time a bird flaps its wing, it makes a (free)vortex, and the outside of any such vorex turns only slowly, but air caught up in this vortex accelerates and  loses pressure (expanding)on its way to the low pressure at the center.

Note a)the slow start,b)the accelerating expansion and c) the Inward Direction.

What is happening in all three situations is 'the expansion 'et al' is being pulled by an ongoing and seemingly increaseing attractive force eminating from an 'all relative' Central Point.

It was in 1998 they noticed the expansion of the observable Universe was accelerating. And actually, any accelerating expansion is Inward (see the beginning). I know ten (10) of these accelerating expansions, all of them Inward. The very best solution for me would be if YOU could come up with an accelerating expansion of your own (not your Universe) and see what direction it is going.

Wiki editors like to say this is not a notable subject, that it doesn't make sense, things like that - and yet the Observble Universe's expansion is accelerating. And something else, nobody has ever seen beyond the Observable Universe, tho' many pretend they can. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter Lamont (talk • contribs) 23:35, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that information. Please defer to articles for creation for assistance with this. Although that area is very backlogged. In general, while you might present a logical argument or case for inward expansion, for it to be included here, we need more than just original research, but also information from reliable sources. In your statement above, you didn't provide any clear sources for your statements. Thanks Tiggerjay (talk) 03:40, 22 April 2013 (UTC)