Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 February 4

= February 4 =

Problem with the sorting table
Hello. I have been doing the List of NK Maribor players, with the intention of making this list a future FL. However, I stumbled to a little problem. I have completed the table but for some reason, unkown to me, the table wont sort properly in two sections (appearances and goals). All other sections seem to be without problems so I am puzzled.. Thanks, Ratipok (talk) 03:17, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I have fixed the problem. I added data-sort-type="number" to the header of the columns: see Sortable_table. Maproom (talk) 09:20, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Rules Concerning Images In Infoboxes?
I'm wondering whether there are rules concerning the images which can be placed in Infoboxes, and if so, where the rules can be found? The reason I'm asking is that some time ago I added an image to the Infobox in the article on John de Vere, 12th Earl of Oxford. The image was of the site of the scaffold on Tower Hill where the 12th Earl was executed, and today the image and caption were deleted by another editor with the comment that images in Infoboxes should be of the subject. There are no available images of the 12th Earl of Oxford, and the image of where he was executed is relevant to the article. Is there a Wikipedia rule that the only image permitted in an Infobox in an article on a historical personage is an image of the person? Help with this would be much appreciated. NinaGreen (talk) 05:00, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I can only point to LEADIMAGE. Ruslik_ Zero 09:50, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * You can try this format if you think the image should be at the top of the page. Also, are any of these images of the John de Vere, 12th Earl of Oxford? On a different note, File:Tower Hill scaffold location - Sign 2.jpg might be a good image for the article. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 10:04, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks to both of you for your help! I'll replace the earlier image with File:Tower Hill scaffold location - Sign 2.jpg, as it mentions the 12th Earl specifically. NinaGreen (talk) 17:55, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I have uploaded a cropped version of that file at File:Tower Hill scaffold location - Sign 2_(cropped).jpg.--ukexpat (talk) 20:02, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Requesting creation of new WMF project
If I want to request the creation of a new Wikimedia project that (I hope) would be useful for EN Wikipedia (and probably other language Wikipedias), should I propose this here at the village pump or over at Meta? Or do I need to get a consensus here first and then propose this on Meta? --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  12:49, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It depends on what you mean. If you mean "project" in the sense that WMF does, you would need to propose it at m:Proposals for new projects. If it's a subproject that would benefit English Wikipedia and multiple others, you might find it better to begin by suggesting (and testing) it on one project and then suggesting the adoption to other projects after it's established. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:59, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I essentially mean a new project (like Commons, Wiktionary etc) that I hope would benefit EN Wikipedia. It would (if it got through) require separate physical resources (such as dedicated servers and software tools). --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  13:04, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * It would need thorough discussion though (I guess), since there are also legal matters that would need to be taken into consideration. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  13:23, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * All projects go through a discussion phase, since they are opened only if the community supports them. :) m:Proposals for new projects is the place to go. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:26, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, I will prepare something to describe the plan for the project and propose it on the page you pointed me to, though I don't know when it will be ready. Thanks. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  13:36, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Bircham International University
This web page is totally negative and does not include any positive information about the university. It seems more like an attack on the institution than an informational page. Where is all the information about how many degrees it offers. How many professors it has. Or Professional graduates level of sucesses like other university pages. Or that the fact that this degree can be professionally evaluated and accepted by the us government. More information should be added to represent a fair evaluation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.152.196.152 (talk) 15:04, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you have any reliable, independent sources? Our current article is well sourced. Rmhermen (talk) 15:34, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Images
Hello

I would like to change the image you have for the page for Jason Atherton the chef. I cannot work out how to do this - he does not like the image currently on there. I work with him. Please can someone get back to me about this asap?

URL: Jason Atherton

Many thanks Syamala  62.133.24.233 (talk) 15:31, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Have the photographer/copyright holder upload one to a public website and tag it a 'Creative Commons licence' is the easiest. It needs a CC licence to allow derivatives and commercial use. The photographer can insist on attribution. This can be a name, company, and/or website. CC-by-3.0 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Cc-by-3.0 is a common one. Post the link on the talk page of his article and I can upload it for you. If it is taken in a private place you will also need consent from Mr. Atherton as well. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:OTRS is a more complex method and that system is backlogged, I think. I will paste this to the talk page as well. --Canoe1967 (talk) 16:07, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that donating an image does not guarantee that we will use it. But if it is at least as good quality as the current image, I don't think you should have any problems getting it replaced. Rmhermen (talk) 16:11, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The two images we have of him appear to be taken in a private place. If he didn't give permission to publish them then he can put a delete message on them. Reason= No consent, tagged by subject.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:20, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * They both appear to have been taken at food festivals which I would argue are public places where there is no expectation of privacy.--ukexpat (talk) 16:30, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I seems that commons has ??? for the three UK requirements according to their research. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Country_specific_consent_requirements --Canoe1967 (talk) 17:22, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know why. The law in the UK is pretty clear: http://www.urban75.org/photos/photographers-rights-street-shooting.html (and many others) despite protestations to the contrary on the talk page of that Commons guideline. Be that as it may, in this case when the subject is appearing at a public event where there are likely to be photographers present, I would argue that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy and that the consent of the subject is not required. --ukexpat (talk) 17:42, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Your link above states that the law is vague in the UK and states at the bottom: "Note: This article attempts to be a brief educational guide to the sometimes-complex matter of your rights as a photographer. It is not legal advice and we recommend seeking out proper legal advice..." Commons is seeking a legal stand for photos in each country. There are three levels of consent needed. Consent to take a picture, publish it, and use it for commercial purposes. Uploading to commons is considered publishing and consent is needed for that.--Canoe1967 (talk) 22:35, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Reply to Canoe1967 above: there is no point in uploading the image to "a public website": it would still need to be uploaded to Wikipedia or Commons in order to be used in Wikipedia. --ColinFine (talk) 23:18, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. If the photographer uploads to commons, that would be the simplest but they may already have a flickr account to upload to. Many find commons uploads a pain. Many get their work kicked through deletion requests until they email backlogged OTRS with permissions, etc. Flickr licences are directly accepted by a bot after upload.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:44, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

In disbelief
I was on wikipedia yesterday looking at kirsty strains wiki and actually i happen to know her. I was told that you could edit wikipedia and post a valid fact and if the factwas not valid it would be taken off, fair enough. Now i came on to wikipedia today to do a little bit of homework and i found that my fact which states kirsty has 2,770 follewers on twitter (and counting) which is a valid fact now i found that it had been taken off the page when in fact it was true i am quite annoyed as i thought thats why there was an edit box. If someone could explain why then it would help me out Sincerely,
 * Ciara — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.153.158 (talk) 15:59, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Well it was a valid fact if you go on to twitter ansd type kirsty strain in — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.153.158 (talk) 16:00, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I still dont see why a VALID fact would be removed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.153.158 (talk) 16:01, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Hello its ciara again i received a message to say that what i edited was not constructive. I disagree it was a valid fact and i found it constructive i think its unfair that my peice was taken off and i am. Quite upset i thought i was doing a favour to the readers posting a peice of VALID info on the page and if it was a true fact then it shouldnt be taken off. I am also upset that i was told my peice wasnt constructive as it was a true fact. I feel i should be allowed to re post my peice as i was upset to hear that you thought my peice wasnt constructive could someone please get back to me with a fair reason my peice was taken off and maybe if im allowed to repost it? Sincerely Ciara  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.153.158 (talk) 16:09, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The place to discuss disputes about the article is on the talk page of the article. Not here. However, not every true fact is important enough to include in a biography. For instance, Twitter follower count is only significant for a few special individuals who are famous for their use of Twitter like Ashton Kutcher. Rmhermen (talk) 16:17, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a blog. The number of twitterers that follow a particular person as of any random date is mindbogglingly trivial and inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  16:19, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Ciara. I am sorry that you feel your fact was unfairly removed. Wikipedia has many policies and guidelines. For example, one of our core policies, the verifiability policy, requires that readers of the encyclopaedia be able to check that information comes from a reliable source. Twitter is, in Wikipedia terminology, a self-published source and can be used to source claims about itself. Twitter cannot specifically be used to source claims about third-parties such as Kirsty Strain. If you can locate a reliable source that states how many followers Kirsty Strain has, then by all means add it to the article taking care to quote your source by referring to citing sources. I hope that helps and I apologise for the fact that Wikipedia seems to be over-burdened with strange policies. Good luck -- Senra (talk) 16:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with other replies that the number of Twitter followers is rarely appropriate content for an encyclopedia biography, but I disagree with the post to User talk:86.130.153.158 which said it didn’t appear constructive. I believe you were trying to help and if you learn more about Wikipedia then maybe you will be able to contribute well-sourced content we like better. Your edit lacked capitalization and also mentioned she was on the tv show Burnistoun, but this was already mentioned several times in the article. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:00, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Translation question
looking for a translation from English to Italian?? The place of good encountersItalic text — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.240.134.227 (talk) 16:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Please clarify your question.--ukexpat (talk) 16:32, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi there Italic text. I would recommend you ask this question at our reference desk:languages. This help-desk is for questions about using Wikipedia. I hope that helps -- Senra (talk) 16:49, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Try http://translate.google.ca/?hl=en&tab=wT#en/it/ google translate?--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:27, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Creating books
I have attempted to create a book by compiling interesting Wiki pages, but when I log back into my wikepedia account the book that was created is gone. How can I create a book that will be saved and present when I log back into my wikepedia account? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlieberm (talk • contribs) 16:55, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Before you can save a book, your account must be autoconfirmed, ie 4 days old with at least 10 edits. See Help:Books.--ukexpat (talk) 17:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Editing 'hyperlink' icon
Hi When I try to edit a page as a logged in user, the icon at the top doesnt apppear.

When I try to edit a page without being logged in, it is there?

Please can you explain/help. Tahnks Rgds — Preceding unsigned comment added by David Rose RPA (talk • contribs) 16:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what the issue is, you were clearly able to edit this page. If there are only certain pages you can't edit they are probably protected from editing by new users, but that should affect you the same when logged out. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:53, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't tell which edit link you mean. The edit tab next to the Read, Edit, View history should look the same whether logged in or not. The edit section links should appear mainly the same but can be changed in the User preferences, some options there require JavaScript. Rmherman (talk) 18:00, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Try to clear your entire cache. Please describe the icon better. Is it on one of the toolbars at RefToolbar 2.0? PrimeHunter (talk) 22:34, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Editing Company Description - Legally Required
Hello, I am an employee from a company that has a Wikipedia page. We recently acquired a new company and our description/product names have legally changed. I have been trying to make these edits to our Wiki page, but they keep getting reverted back to the outdated info.

How should I proceed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbot123 (talk • contribs) 17:19, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * You should request the changes on the article's talk page, in this case Talk:Mortgagebot, providing a reliable source to support your request.--ukexpat (talk) 17:23, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Some article talk pages take months (or years) to get a response. After you have done what ukexpat has suggested, you might want to come back to this help desk to request somebody take a look, or you could put help me on your own user talk page (see this documentation).   ~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 18:33, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * In this case, Mbot a/k/a Mortgagebot has been blocked [not by me] as a corporate username. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  18:38, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

United States Economic Census page no longer orphan
Dear editors: I was looking at Special:NewPagesFeed and I found a page entitled United States Economic Census which was marked as an orphan. I checked it out, and actually it has quite a few pages linked to it now, so I guess the problem has been fixed. I couldn't find a way to remove the red orphan tag on the new pages list. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 18:44, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no need to worry about it because you were likely looking at stale or cached data from before the orphan issue was resolved. I see no on-page tag so you should be okay. There are still other issues with this page that you are welcome to contribute to. Thanks Tiggerjay (talk) 03:52, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Maintaining multi language articles about the same subject?
I am one of the editors of The British Chess Magazine and maintain the English language version of the Wiki page.

I've recently noticed that there are other language versions that contain very out-of-date or incorrect content.

My language skills are not sufficient to edit the pages.

Is there a standard solution to this problem?

Many thanks!

Dr. John Upham — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeupham (talk • contribs) 19:30, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe request assistance on the talk pages of those other language versions, or on their Help Desks?--ukexpat (talk) 19:38, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * It's not an answer to your question, but if you are an editor of the magazine, then you have a conflict of interest, and should be very cautious about editing the article British Chess Magazine at all, and should certainly not regard yourself as "maintaining" it. Your suggestions for its update and improvement are welcome on the article's talk page. Please see WP:BPCOI. --ColinFine (talk)

I need a sound file clipped and converted
Does anyone know how I could take a clip from a sound file and have it converted to OGG? Ryan Vesey 20:39, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * http://audio.online-convert.com/convert-to-ogg may work, but I have never used it.--ukexpat (talk) 20:46, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The sad thing is, I used to do a lot with windows movie maker, when it came out on Windows 7, it won't take sound without video or pictures. I'm attempting to download the old version, and if that doesn't work, I'll check out that website.  Thanks. Ryan Vesey 20:48, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I've used dvdvideosoft, not real fancy but many great programs including audio file conversions and file dubbing. Mlpearc ( powwow ) 20:49, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The website provided by Ukexpat worked perfectly for my purposes, but I might consider getting that dvdvideosoft. Thank you to both of you. Ryan Vesey 21:09, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Audacity (audio editor) --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 11:09, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Veterans Association UK
would it please be possible to add the Veterans Association UK (VAUK)to the site listing veterans organisations, we help re house, train for employment and offer help with mental health issues. We have been operating for 2 years during which time have helped 100's of veterans and their families. our contact details are as follows, email — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.132.50 (talk) 21:37, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * You are referring to List of veterans' organizations? It is unclear what the inclusion criteria are for that list, if any.--ukexpat (talk) 21:50, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not a directory, but a digest of what has already been written elsewhere. Generally the criterion for inclusion is that a topic has been covered in reliable sources independent of the subject, and I see nothing about that list which suggests a different criterion. If you organisation meets that criterion (i.e. is notable in Wikipedia's special sense, then it could have an article, and may be added to that list. But contact details would not be appropriate for that list in any case. --ColinFine (talk) 23:41, 4 February 2013 (UTC)