Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 January 27

= January 27 =

Reliable Source
68.111.191.198 (talk) 00:29, 27 January 2013 (UTC)We have been requested " must have at least one reference to a reliable source." What constitutes a Reliable Source? 00:29, 27 January 2013 (UTC)68.111.191.198 (talk)


 * See WP:RS for what is and is not a reliable source RudolfRed (talk) 00:38, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

My account could not be automatically confirmed on a particular site, and i can't confirm it with my password.

 * Don't delete it. Old sections are automatically moved to Help desk/Archives. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:10, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

So i created the account with the en-wikipedia being the home site. Then the account was automatically attached to 25 wiki sites. One site is waiting for my approval (my mother tongue wikipedia: mk.wikipedia.org). So i tried to confirm it with my password but it says: "No accounts could be confirmed using this password." Why? Could it be that another account with the same name like mine existed on that wikipedia but hasn't been linked to the wiki sites, my account is linked to, thus allowing me to create the account with the same name on another wiki site? The thing is that i have some contributions and i want to keep them (nothing special, but why not keep them), otherwise i would have created another account. And also i haven't found an option to change my username, so is it possible, cause i wanted to try and solve the problem that way?

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stefan Stojkovski (talk • contribs) 00:50, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The issue is there is already an account over mkwiki named Stefan Stojkovski. Is that your account or someone elses? If that account is not yours, then see WP:SUL/C. If it is your account, see H:UL. Tiggerjay (talk) 01:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * http://toolserver.org/~quentinv57/sulinfo/Stefan_Stojkovski shows that mk:User:Stefan Stojkovski was created in 2007, four years before any of the other accounts. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:25, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! --Stefan Stojkovski (talk) 14:40, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

How to delete a user page?
I have a userpage User:Mark viking/Hypertopology that I was using to develop an article. I submitted it to AfC and it was accepted and created at Hypertopology--sweet. But now I would like to get rid of the User:Mark viking/Hypertopology page. I tried blanking User:Mark viking/Hypertopology and replacing th content with a template, but this managed to kill the Hypertopology instead of the User:Mark viking/Hypertopology page! I undid the damage to Hypertopology and came here. How do I get rid of my user page without endangering the Hypertopology page?

Thanks in advance for advice to a new editor, Mark viking (talk) 01:10, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've done it for you. In the future, here's how you do it:
 * The page titled User:Mark viking/Hypertopology was a redirect to the Hypertopology. So, when you click on User:Mark viking/Hypertopology, you would get sent to Hypertopology.  At the top of Hypertopology, there's small blue text under the title that says redirected from User:Mark viking/Hypertopology .  Click THAT link to bypass the redirect and go back to the original page.  Then, edit the redirect page and put the db-u1 tag on it.  Redirect has some more information on how redirects work.  Does that make sense?  -- Jayron  32  01:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, it was the redirect I was missing. Yes, that makes sense. I guess the redirect was put into the article by the AfC editor performing the move from user space. I see you have already deleted the page--thanks for your help! Mark viking (talk) 01:22, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, but automatically: whenever a page is moved it leaves the original page behind as a redirect. --ColinFine (talk) 09:59, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

New Orleans Handicap
The information in the chart, showing horses, owners, and trainers for the New Orleans Handicap races are very informative. However, in 1978 Laz Barrera sent Life's Hope, a gelding horse, to New Orleans to my dad, Angel Barrera, Laz's oldest brother, to prepare him for the New Orleans handicap. Chris Mccarron rode, Laz was named trainer, and my dad prepared the horse for the race, as my dad was a trainer at the Fair Grounds since 1935. Angel also trained the 3 year old "filly of the year" eclipse award winner" Tiffany Lass, at the Fair Grounds, where she was undefeated.   She  won the Fair Grounds Oaks, The Fantasy in Arkansas and the Kentucky  Oaks in Kentucky.  Other than that your charts are great to review, brings back many memories, as I have seen many of the Owners, Trainers, and horses in person.  thank you  for so many fine charts.

Joe Barrera — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.11.57.117 (talk) 05:34, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I added a title and a link to the page I assume you're referring to. I'm glad you find the article interesting.  However, we can't use personal recollections as the source for entries.  Everything has to come from published independent documents. Rojomoke (talk) 05:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Irrelevant managed / abused article
For your information. Sry for a not fully correct english, Im swede. I thought of contacting about donations but start here. Im an old man, retired teacher suffered from sickness and a long time was interested of tooth-problems and sickness in that area (spread to the rest of the body which is usual) I earlier very much appreciated the information on this (swedish) page: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotfyllning Overall I in my life had much use for and loved many articles but later on I found that several articles and the discussions are abused by some "admins" or similar for the subjects and the linked article above is a good example. Relevant stuff is deleted and more irrelevant stuff is kept, also when I tried to ask abot that problem in the discussion (I very seldom edit anything but wrote some articles but not at all in this subject-area) I found that the discussion was closed / terminated. Its very clear for me that that "admin" is implementing a subjective ingrediens in that subject and also other subjects that he plays with. I realised that the pages are getting worse managed, the overall-control is worse nowadays so I changed my plans to testament 50% of what I own as a donation. My advice is to remove that type of people from the pages, as soon as possible. But Im not optimistic cause I have seen many "trolls" on the internet, infecting many bad controlled sites as this one! I will in fact also stop to use Wikipedia. I will not read any replies.

Goran, Uppsala, Sweden  82 y. o.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.182.164.233 (talk) 06:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm, sorry, this is the help page for English Wikipedia: the different language Wikipedias are entirely separate, and have no power or influence over each other. Känske är sv:Wikipedia:Wikipediafrågor det bästa sidan för deg. --ColinFine (talk) 10:05, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

not notable
so my recent page submission was declined due to nobility, my page was about a soldier in this us army.. how is a hero not noble? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.200.161.88 (talk) 06:20, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * While I can understand your understanding of what makes a person important or noteworthy, at wikipedia we have a standard measurement documented over at WP:N which reads:
 * On Wikipedia, notability is a test used by editors to decide whether a topic can have its own article. Information on Wikipedia must be verifiable; if no reliable third-party sources can be found on a topic, then it should not have a separate article. Wikipedia's concept of notability applies this basic standard to avoid indiscriminate inclusion of topics. Article and list topics must be notable, or "worthy of notice". Determining notability does not necessarily depend on things such as fame, importance, or popularity—although those may enhance the acceptability of a subject that meets the guidelines explained below. Tiggerjay (talk) 07:11, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The criteria is that they be notable, not noble. Maybe this is where some of the confusion is coming in?  Dismas |(talk) 09:48, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * WikiProject Military History has an essay on what sorts of military personnel are likely to be notable. See WP:SOLDIER. Deor (talk) 12:04, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The decline box at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Erin Ellison says notability and has links to pages explaining the term. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:00, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

damn captcha
i'm trying to post examples of what i'm talking about in the entertainment reference desk, but that damn captcha is being more of a problom than those spammers. as i cannot see, i can't verify i'm human because i can't see the image. i would ask my girlfriend to help me but the only way i could do that right now would be to book a plane ticket from YWG to LAX, and i can't do that right now. so can someone please help me? thanks. 199.101.61.190 (talk) 06:23, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * One option would be to create an account for yourself, which avoids the needs for the captcha. Of course there is a captcha used when creating an account, so if you have a problem there, you can request a user account to be manually processed (without a captcha image) over at WP:ACC. There are volunteers online now who can help you. Tiggerjay (talk) 07:25, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we need to create a guide page about this issue for our editors who have visual impairments. Roger (talk) 10:38, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * When unregistered or new users try to add external links they see a message with a "more info" link going to Special:Captcha/help which displays MediaWiki:Captchahelp-text. It says "If you are trying to create an account, you may request that an account be created for you.", but it doesn't say that autoconfirmed users don't have to add captcha's when they add external links. Maybe this should be mentioned. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:42, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

I have requested an account already, i did so in december and was going to call myself "alien arceus" but it hasn't been processed as i got no notice about it at all. 199.101.61.190 (talk) 18:27, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * There is currently no backlog for a username request going back that far. Please request it again. Tiggerjay (talk) 20:05, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Your account was recently created and you should have received an e-mail from wikipedia explaining how to access it. Tiggerjay (talk) 20:11, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

got my account here, i'll give this resolved status for now. thanks. Alien Arceus  22:31, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Was I wrong removing these external links?
Hi! editor User:Factmaven has questioned my deletion of external links to for instance this radio program in this edit and this radio program in this edit. I cannot really find a good ELNO number to account for the removal. I don't have the time and patience to listen for 1½ hour, but my impression is that these are interviews and knowledgeable people discussing, expressing their own opinions, possibly intelligent and/or highly informed opinions. Yet they are still opinions, not peer-reviewed science or accepted knowledge. Was I wrong to exclude them? Lova Falk    talk   09:43, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You should discuss this with the user in question and to reach some consensus. Ruslik_ Zero 11:53, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * But I don't know if I was right or wrong! This is not about problems reaching consensus, it is about not knowing if these links belong to ELYES or to ELNO. The last week, quite a lot of these "Living Hero podcast" links have been added and I just don't know if it is spam or a valuable contribution.  Lova Falk     talk   13:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't take the time to investigate at the moment, but advice about external links is generally available at the noticeboard (WP:ELN). Please include a link to the article (Child development) as well as the diff. A very quick look makes me think the link fails WP:EL, but you must not use rollback for any edit which is not clearly vandalism. Johnuniq (talk) 22:01, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I'll tell the editor I won't revert if s/he puts the links back in.  Lova Falk     talk   18:08, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

KJNO Is Streaming Online, In Spite Of Not Having A Website
KJNO is Streaming Online, in spite of not having a website. Here's the Listen Live link for KJNO for anybody to test out. It should work. Well, there is a KJNO Website link listed within the website of a co-owned station; although, that link only leads to a blank webpage with nothing on it. 98.229.132.126 (talk) 10:00, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * What is your question about editing Wikipedia? --ColinFine (talk) 10:07, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I mentioned this because it was my intention to add the link into the article, which I've already done at this point. I was getting conscientious about this because the last time I added that Listen Live link to that article, the update was auto-reverted and the link disappeared. My question, I suppose, is why David Biddulph (talk) 11:32, 27 January 2013 (UTC)STiki would identify my edit as "test/vandalism," thereby auto-reverting it back, if the Listen Live link was working correctly. Maybe, the .pls link wasn't working at the point in time when it was checked. Right around the same time, the KJNO Website was determined to be nothing more than a blank webpage with nothing on it. Maybe, at the same time, it was sort of blindly-assumed that the Listen Live link is no good anymore either. It's no big deal, really, about the Listen Live link. It still works though but I do understand any confusion that might occur, as it's very odd that the station doesn't have a website, yet the Listen Live link works fine. Usually, when a radio station takes its website down, their Listen Live link will, as well, get deactivated; or so most people would think (myself included). That's not common for a local AM/FM radio station to be streaming online but not have a website. 98.229.132.126 (talk) 10:39, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The appropriate place for similar comments in future would be the talk page of the article. Regarding your comment about STiki, my understanding is that it is not a bot that could auto-revert your edit.  Any reversion using STiki is the responsibility of the editor using the tool. - David Biddulph (talk) 11:32, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

How to edit this page?
I have a general question and a specific question about viewing (and perhaps eventually editing) pages like this:

Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchives

When I hit the edit button for the above page I see this:

So obviously this is a transcluded page. I thought that I knew how to figure out even complex transclusions; just click on "View templates on this page" at the bottom and repeat as needed. But this page doesn't have a "View templates on this page" link.

My next thought was to look in the page history -- perhaps a bot is making regular edits and I can look at the bot. Nope. Last edit was in 2008.

So my general question is: what is the first step in figuring out what template/script/bot/genie/whatever is creating the page I see?

My more specific question is this: I don't like the way the page is sorted. I can think of two obvious ways to fix that -- either find out if whatever is doing the sorting can do it so that 11 doesn't come after 109, or use numbers with leading zeros. But right now I just want to see how it is done and perhaps request a change rather than wanting to jump in and edit something that I don't fully understand. --Guy Macon (talk) 12:35, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The transcluded page is Special:Prefixindex/Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive. You can see this because that is the name of the page inside the curly brackets. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  12:42, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The transclusion function of the MediaWiki software simply inserts the content of the source page whose name it finds between the curly brackets into the target page. See Transclusion. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  12:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Rerarding the sorting, I think only the developers could change that. I don't think any of the usergroups on EN Wikipedia can do that. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  12:52, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) Note that this is a special page and cannot be edited directly. The alphabetical sort order is built into the MediaWiki software. Template:Administrators' noticeboard navbox all is a normal template and has links in numerical order. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:52, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * (e/c) Hi Guy. There's no way I know of to edit this page because it's not a transclusion of content sitting elsewhere, as you might expect. Instead it's trancluding the result of a type of search. Special:Prefixindex allows you to compile all pages at some prefix. For example, if you wanted to look at all of your subpages in your user space, you'd perform this search. I used the URL here because that's the one that is generated when you specify a namespace in the search but this can also be expressed as Special:Prefixindex/User:Guy Macon (which takes a different URL). If you wanted to make a page that permanently displayed not just those results, but the results on the fly, as your subpages exist at any given time, then you could transclude that search by making a page, say "User:Guy Macon/My subpages", and transclude That's what they're doing with these 3RR archives. So, there's no way to edit this directly or, AFAIK, influence the sorting display without changing the software.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:57, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I think you'd have to discuss this somewhere on MediaWiki. I don't know if they have something like the Village pump over there. You could ask at Project:Support desk whether they have something like that and then propose this there. I don't know where proposals are normally being made over there. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  13:16, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks! That was the key concept that I was missing -- that you can transclude the result of a search. Now I understand why going to the name of the page inside the curly brackets brings me to a special page that I cannot edit or view the source of. Again, thanks. --Guy Macon (talk) 13:54, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Two articles on the same subject
Bank of South Sudan and Central Bank of South Sudan are about the same bank. The bank's name is simply "Bank of South Sudan" - per their banknotes - it's role is that of a central bank. There is a stale merge template on one of the articles but if I understand the rules about content forking the merger of these articles is in fact compulsory, not subject to debate/consensus. I'm not confident of my (nonexistent) article merging skills so I would appreciate it if someone else can do the necessary. Roger (talk) 14:19, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I redirected the first article to the second one. What is written on banknotes is not dispositive in respect of the title of the article. Ruslik_ Zero 15:43, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * On what planet are fictional/imaginary/incorrect bank names printed on official currency? You redirected it in the wrong direction. Roger (talk) 16:06, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The title is determined by how the bank is called in reliable sources. Ruslik_ Zero 17:49, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Closing an award box
In my User Talk Page apparently the "Award box" is not properly closed and additional messages I receive continue down from the original "award message". Can someone more technical close this box properly so that the additional messages are correctly presented as seperate messages. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:23, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

✅  Lova Falk     talk   14:36, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! That was fast...--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:42, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

notability calibration
I see a lot of articles in wikipedia that I cannot comprehend the encyclopedic value of - having read around the notability policies quite a bit and participated in afd discussions I am wondering whether there is an official policy that would compare the level of inclusion expected in wikipedia as against any other encyclopedia such as Britannica. I feel that if you wouldn't expect to see it there, then we shouldn't entertain it here - but maybe that makes me deletionist? Comments welcome. nonsense ferret  14:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Generally whether a particular article should be included is (in the cases where none of the speedy deletion criteria apply) determined by whether its notability can be established through finding enough reliable sources. However, since we are a volunteer project with a limited number of editor resources, many articles not meeting those guidelines might be kept for some time before anything happens. Also, one problem is that nominations for deletion through WP:PROD or WP:AFD are sometimes seen as disruptive, though that is often subjective. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  15:10, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * yes I understand the notability criteria, but that still leaves quite a large discretion, and as you say the AFD discussions are frequently polarised (understandably people have invested their time in creating an article or are particularly interested in a subject, and quite often have conflicts of interest) - my question is really how does the level of inclusion expected on wikipedia compares to other encyclopedias - is it wrong to expect the same level of inclusion and exclusion?  nonsense  ferret  15:20, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't know how other encyclopedias, such as Encyclopædia Britannica determine whether a particular subject should have an own entry. From what I can read from Encyclopædia Britannica I guess Britannica would generally consider less topics worth of having an own entry, so I think Wikipedias level of inclusion compared to other encyclopedias is higher (probably the highest). Compared to other projects however, we exclusively rely on volunteers for writing content, so we are in a sense forced to have a higher level of inclusion, because most editors don't join Wikipedia for doing gnomish edits (I guess). I guess that this only comes after having been part of it and having gained some experience, so limiting Wikipedias scope to that of say Britannica would create an additional barrier for those wanting to join Wikipedia in my opinion. We want to be a project that can be edited as openly as possible. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  15:37, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Delete my page
delte user markmils — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.113.124.196 (talk) 15:41, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Users can't be deleted. See WP:VANISH for an alternative.  RudolfRed (talk) 18:40, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Hatnotes on user pages (sort of)
Is there a way I can move my barnstars up underneath my WikiPlatypus? I'd like them below that horizontal line, but small and up in the corner - like how admins and rollbackers have a little icon up there, except below the line. Is this even possible? -- T K K  bark !  17:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You can use the template top icon, inserting the file names of the barnstars for  and making use of the   parameter, or you can use ribbons.  Intelligent  sium  00:28, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Rogue Administrator
RTI would like to know the procedure for reporting a rogue administrator of Wikipedia - if you feel unable to answer here please feel to email with the subject field "RTI Investigates WikiPedia" Thanks in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.112.79.171 (talk) 18:34, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The procedure is outlined at Rouge admin.


 * Alternatively, try Requests for comment/User conduct. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:39, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

THANK YOU very much RTI — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.112.79.171 (talk) 19:02, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Demiurge's first link is to a joke page; nobody should ever direct an editor with a grievance to it.
 * You should first discuss it with the user in question, and if you cannot reach agreement, follow Demiurg'es second link. --ColinFine (talk) 20:39, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've removed your email address to prevent the account being spammed. Intelligent  sium  23:34, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

I remember reading
or think that I remember reading that the software used by wikiprdia is free and can be used to set up other wikis. So, I'd like to set up a wikicarptrash - but do not have a clue as to where to begin. I'll bet you do and I'm sure that you wish to share. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 19:53, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, the software is MediaWiki and you can download it here. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:02, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * You can get the source here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki. You'll also find links to help forums and FAQs. RudolfRed (talk) 20:04, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks folks, I am no wizard on a conputer, this should be interesting, but longest journey starts with first step. Actually, I have discovered that the longest journey usually starts with getting my *ss up out of a chair and standing up, but that's a discussion for another day.  thanks again, Carptrash (talk) 20:41, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Changes not showing up
Hi,

I've made substantial changes to this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McIntyre as a logged in user (Liberty842). However its been several days and the updates are still not showing up to anyone other than me as a logged in user

Regards

Keith Hirst — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liberty842 (talk • contribs) 22:42, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know who is "anyone", but I see your changes.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:49, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * IP users get cached pages. So if the users looking for your changes are not logged in, they may not see them.  I don't know how long it takes for the cache to get refreshed.  RudolfRed (talk) 22:52, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Is that really true? Isn't it more of a function of the browser than on whether you log in?--Bbb23 (talk) 23:01, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * WP:VPT suggests that the problem is at least primarily when not logged in. - David Biddulph (talk) 23:22, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It shows great courage on your part that you would link to that discussion. Besides the chaos and the apparent implication that there are problems with IPs and updates, do you get anything positive (or even clear) out of all that?--Bbb23 (talk) 23:30, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

How do I un-redirect a page?
I tried creating an article titled "Misawo Okawa" but it kept on being redirected and I didn't know how to fix this. I therefore had to create an article titled Misawo Okawa (supercentenarian), but I want to change its name to Misawo Okawa and prevent it from being redirected. How do I do this? Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 23:16, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Tag the original redirect (Misawo Okawa) with, replacing the parameters with the page to be moved and the reason.  ~satellizer~  ~talk~  23:20, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You could have merely created the article in place of the redirect. When you were redirected to List of living supercentenarians, at the top of the article it says "(Redirected from Misawo Okawa)". The link there allows you to edit the redirect. - David Biddulph (talk) 23:30, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. I think I fixed it now. Futurist110 (talk) 23:36, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * WP:REDTART is a useful redirect to a page explaining this.--ukexpat (talk) 02:57, 28 January 2013 (UTC)