Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 July 2

= July 2 =

Rollback explanation summary
I have Twinkle and Rollback privileges, but I'm having trouble finding the link on how to add an explanatory summary for reverting exits. Here are three examples:


 * (Reverted edits by USER A (talk) to last version by USER B)
 * (Reverted edits by USER A (talk) to last version by USER B) explanation of revert
 * (Reverted 1 edit by USER A (talk) to last version by USER B) (optional explanation of revert)(TW)

I use the first and third options, but I am having trouble finding the link to the tools for the middle option.

Thank you. DPH1110 (talk) 01:08, 2 July 2013 (UTC)DPH1110


 * Rollback is (per the page that you linked to) only to be used where it is clear - without any explanation - why the edit was reverted. So the answer to your question is that there are no tools for the middle option, because that is not what rollback was designed for. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 02:18, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * There are some scripts listed at Cleaning up vandalism/Tools that allow editors with the rollback user right to add an edit summary. One of those may be responsible for your second example; you could ask the editor concerned. According to Rollback, "standard" rollback may only be used in appropriate cases; but my understanding is that rollback with an explanatory edit summary doesn't count as "standard rollback". -- John of Reading (talk) 07:04, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * There is a rather simple user script to change the summary, though Twinkle's rollback (" #| [ rollback ] " as opposed to MediaWiki's "#|[]") is only slightly slower (compared to typing time, that is). In many cases, I prefer to use "undo" and manual reverting instead to avoid unintentionally reverting earlier/later good revisions made by the same editor. PleaseStand (talk) 07:43, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Link to Spanish Wikipedia
In an article in this (English) Wikipedia, I found a link that was to the Spanish-language biography of an Argentine scientist. Please verify that my understanding is correct that links in the main part of an article in article mainspace should be only within the English Wikipedia. Is that correct? As it was, when I searched for the name, I got a hit on his English-language biography, and so just changed the link. If I find a link to an article in a foreign-language Wikipedia that is not available in this English Wikipedia, what should I do? Should I delete the prefix that specifies the foreign Wikipedia, thus creating a red link, and then request that the article be translated? What is the mechanism for requesting translation? (I am assuming that leaving a red link is acceptable in this case because the article probably will eventually be translated.) Robert McClenon (talk) 01:27, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * See Translation for the second part of your question. Dismas |(talk) 01:31, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * See Help:Interlanguage links for the first part, but it's rarely used in practice. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:35, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Image copyright
Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this but here it is: File:Tsys headquarters.jpg was uploaded as being "licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 License" and claiming the uploader was the copyright holder, but that image is a mere copy of the image located here which was uploaded months earlier by one of my colleagues. I believe the image should be removed from here because the user who uploaded it didn't actually take it. Thanks. 76.73.188.252 (talk) 02:23, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reporting this. The image has been deleted (Log). -- John of Reading (talk) 06:32, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Fuck you Wikipedia do you know how much struggle i went through editing an article and your deleting my hard and legal work.
Shit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilmount (talk • contribs) 02:23, 2 July 2013‎
 * If there is something you are having trouble with, perhaps you could ask us a question, and we can tell you how to do it the correct way so you don't have the troubles you are having now. -- Jayron  32  02:33, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * This editor has uploaded numerous images that have been deleted as copyright violations. Looie496 (talk) 02:51, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've posted at his talk and will monitor his contribs and those of his other account. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:53, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Way to make friends and influence people, that kind of attitude is really going to help...--ukexpat (talk) 12:54, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Might a quote help?  Mae West is best, of course. Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:07, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

updating an author's page as his assistant
I am an assistant to David Madden and want to update his article (needs major overhaul), but am unsure of how to get started, specifically with how to handle the conflict of interest aspect. Rbrianhart (talk) 02:47, 2 July 2013 (UTC)rbrianhart
 * Well, you've come to the right place. The best thing to do is, at Talk:David Madden (novelist), indicate the following:
 * Any information which is incorrect and needs to be removed, especially information which is not connected to any reliable sources.
 * Any missing information which needs to be added, and please provide a reliable independent source to support any added information. This should be published sources like newspapers, journals, magazines, books, and the like, or websites which have editorial control similar to newspapers, journals, magazines, etc.
 * If you explain as you have here, and also indicate the changes that need to be made, along with reliable sources to support the changes, someone can evaluate and make the changes for you. -- Jayron  32  03:17, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

amateur radio teachers
I need help with figuring out how to make up a new word, explaining how the word came into being (spelling), the definition (meaning) of the word, placing it with the proper subject (context), adding references to the word for validity. Your online chat turned me away. I tried to post this on a help forum. Is there a real human there that can assist me with this ?TaylorPaul (talk) 04:22, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There are real people here, but I have trouble understanding your question. Are you saying that you want to create a Wikipedia article?  If not, could you be a little more clear about what you mean by making up a new word? Looie496 (talk) 04:50, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The word you're talking about is "Elmer" - this page on the ARRL website has some useful information. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:15, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Jacob Pitts is not recurring on Justifed- he is a cast regular.
Again, Jacob Pitts is NOT a recurring character on Justified (TV show - FX). He is one of the stars of the show. Can you correct this please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.127.249.82 (talk) 04:52, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * He's shown as a regular in the article (Justified_(TV_series)).  RudolfRed (talk) 05:05, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Visual Edit
Is Visual Edit optional while logged in?

I have trouble editing by the new way, and I would like to cancel my Visual Edit function temporarily.--辛庚己戊 (talk) 08:20, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The original interface is still available. At the top of the page, click "Edit source" to use it; or hover your mouse over an "[edit]" link to see an "[edit source]" link. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:38, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I see. Thanks much!--辛庚己戊 (talk) 08:55, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't see. I am still puzzled. On this page, Edit still works as before. But since around 12 hours ago, on most other pages, Edit takes me to an editor which appears completely unusable, so I have to use Edit source instead. Maproom (talk) 09:56, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I think i'm complaining about the same issue below. Visual Editor is the new default edit layout then? I need to turn it off. Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 10:01, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Feedback for an answer, the topic has been covered there several times. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:43, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * As a logged in user, you may shut it off in your preferences tab. Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:00, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * But note (unless this has changed since last night), that only hides the VE GUI from view, the code for it still loads.--ukexpat (talk) 14:38, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

The reason it appears on some pages and not others is that VisualEditor is only enabled for userspace (like your sandbox) and mainspace (articles, but not redirects). If you see an "Edit source" button on any page, then that will always take you to the old editor. On other pages, like all talk pages, VisualEditor simply doesn't exist, and "Edit" takes you to the old editor. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:11, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Table formatting
At the tennis project we use a performance key template to explain the meaning of the abbreviations and colors in a player's performance timeline (example: Andrés Gimeno). The border of that key template is rather thick and pronounced and not in line with the formatting of other tables. Is it possible to give the key template a thinner border edge in line with the performance timeline table? Thx.--Wolbo (talk) 08:35, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've made an edit, copying some of the styling of the "wikitable" class from here. Any good? -- John of Reading (talk) 09:15, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's much better and more in line with the other tables. Thx!.--Wolbo (talk) 21:39, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

New article edit window
How do i turn this off? It's slow and laggy for me, and if i try and edit my firefox CPU usage shoots up to 80%, which is unreasonable for this old (work) computer. Is it possible to disable it? Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 09:54, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Add importScript('User:Matma Rex/VE killer.js'); to User:Jenova20/common.js. Mdann52 (talk) 10:11, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you! It works! Maproom (talk) 10:17, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I've since found "Visual Editor" in my gadgets - disabled it, and excluded myself from future experiments. Thanks for the help ツ Jenova   20  (email) 10:26, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

On a related note does anyone know what the font "opendyslexic" does exactly? I can select it from the Languages section on the left but fear turning it on without knowing a bit more. Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 10:40, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It's actually quite useful! It's a free font that someone developed that adds weight to letters, which helps combat the muddling effect caused by Dyslexia. You can read more about it here. It's meant to improve readability, especially in small font sizes and large blocks of text; if you're not dyslexic, the effect is minimal, but it's always there as an option if you want to give it a go, or are bored of straight lines and want something funky... drewmunn talk 10:44, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Very groovy! My dyslexia doesn't affect my reading as far as i can tell, but it's nice to know that we have options to help them. Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 11:13, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Jerry Yanyanutawa
Please note that Jerry has just signed for Glasgow Warriors.

Cheers


 * The place to note this is the talk page of the relevant article. If you have a reliable source for the inforamation, you are welcome to edit the article itself, citing the source. --ColinFine (talk) 11:20, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Outrage at under-utilization of a superb image
There's a lot of talk about VE currently but I feel the real issue is being grossly neglected: Does anyone have any suggestions about more pages where we can use this excellent image? Before anyone suggests middle finger and finger (gesture), I already tried this but both got reverted, even though I believe the image was of direct relevance to both articles. Lesion ( talk ) 13:04, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely sure how to take this... However, note that the image is in no way relevant to either of the articles you tried placing it on; it's not a deliberate gesture by the monkey, and it's a monkey! That aside, it's already used on a fair amount of pages for an otherwise niche image. drewmunn talk 13:40, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Niche image? How can you call it niche? There are potentially thousands of articles we could use this on. The alpha Macaque is making both a middle finger gesture and a V sign (by the way, this species is known for its peaceful nature-- coincidence? I think not). Even if they are incidental, then this by itself is relevant, showing that such gestures hold no significance for this species-- or at least less significance than grass. I assume that this image was taken in a zoo-- do we have an article about that zoo? What type of grass is the monkey eating? do we have an article about that? Have Macaques been used for any animal experimentation? The third macaque in from the left (whom I call "Ephialtes") has constricted pupils. Look at the tendons in their necks-- what are these tendons called? Do we have an article on that? And I'm not even going to start on all the sociological issues raised. Come on think, many minds are better than one. Lesion  ( talk ) 13:58, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't have to completely deconstruct an image simply because it contains elements that could be relevant somewhere else. The gestures (especially the one formed with his left hand) seem to be more incidental than by design, and it'd be floating quite a way into OR to suggest otherwise. This is especially notable as we have plenty of better illustrations of the topic that don't float around, and don't include the topic in such a minor detail. The grass is not identified, and it is therefore unlikely to be in the future, so use of the image in that respect is limited (there are plenty of images of animals eating unidentified grass in the Commons). The other suggested topics you list are also only depicted in a minor capacity within the image; constriction of the pupils can be demonstrated with a super-macro image that is far more illustrative of the topic than this image. Similarly, any article on animal experimentation must severely limit images that are simply there to say "and this species is used too!", else there would be nothing but miles of images. Unless there is a particularly notable incident involving the specific species being used, then they would constitute bloating. Any article on the zoo (also not named by the creator, although easier to solicit from them, I'd imagine, than the type of grass) would similarly have to apply prejudice to such images to avoid Wikipedia becoming a catalog of specimens. As a project, we can't look at images and try to apply them to articles; it's much more productive to look at articles and find images to fill in the gaps. As this is Commons, and it is likely that images in the areas you've suggested this be used will be also, there is no need to re-use it on the merit of licensing. drewmunn talk 14:11, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The arguments you make about not using an image simply for the sake of it have strong intrinsic logic, and ordinarily I might agree, however the sheer quality of the image in this case is most compelling in itself. I freely admit that I have never seen a better image on Wikipedia, and I believe that the number of articles it is used in should reflect this. Lesion  ( talk ) 14:31, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It is, I agree, a nice image, and if Ayacop is still around, then well done. However, I fear that including it in any partially-related article would provoke more hostility, and ultimately not make the image more well known, than if it remains in the articles within which is currently resides. More articles may crop up where it is useful, but the best course of action would be to wait until a need arises rather than trying to find an opportunity to orchestrate the need. drewmunn talk 14:42, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Email notifications
Dear editors: I have turned on email notification in my preferences to that I will be notified when I have a talk page message, but now I am getting e-mails about every change on my watchlist. Is there a way to turn off watchlist notification and still leave talk page notification on? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 13:27, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Anne, in Preferences --> User profile, e-mail options, make sure that "Email me when a page or file on my watchlist is changed" is unchecked. Then go to Preferences --> Notifications, and select the options that you want in the "Notify me about these events" section.--ukexpat (talk) 13:35, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, ukexpat, that worked. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 04:09, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Maritime Telecommunications Network Page
I am part of the communications team at MTN and would like to edit the page to describe the company history more accurately. I have been unable to edit the page before and would like to see what is the best way to go about this. Any tips are appreciated. Maritime Telecommunications Network

Gil Gilmds (talk) 13:50, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, it's generally not accepted for members of companies to edit the page of the company the represent. The best way to go forward would probably be to outline what you think needs changing on the article's talk page, and providing reliable sources to back up your alterations. Other editors may question your suggestions, and hopefully the content will be updated as necessary to ensure accuracy. Remember, though, that we are impartial and encyclopaedic, so any suggestions you make will be checked against the sources you offer, and anything not sources is highly unlikely to make it in (unless another editor can find a source). As you represent the company, you'd need to be careful as well that your suggestions fit the tone needed here; anything that sounds too promotional or bias is likely to get your suggestions discounted even if they contain useful alterations. Thanks, and I hope you find the community helpful! drewmunn talk 13:59, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

updated since my last visit--green!
In the article history, the 'updated since my last visit' tag has started appearing in a nauseating shade of green. I'm 90% sure this didn't happen before (the green, not the tag). Changing skin didn't help--is there any way to turn it off? HenryFlower 14:11, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Not that I'm aware of, but it's been that way for some time (at least a couple of weeks). Try creating some custom CSS for your skin if you know how, that may be able to resolve it. drewmunn talk 14:22, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I was afraid that would be the answer--thanks anyway! HenryFlower 05:16, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Odd lag
Since yesterday, I've been experiencing strange lag on Wikipedia pages. Not the kind when pages load slowly, but the kind that makes my browser use lots of CPU time. It's as if some heavy JavaScript functionality is hogging my resources or something. I thought it was related to this Visual Editor thing, but it happens on every page, even the special pages. It's noticeable enough to disrupt my use of Wikipedia. What could be the cause? — Ginsuloft (talk) 16:17, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Just a bit of troubleshooting, but does changing skin help? If not, it's conceivable that a browser update has mucked you up, or even a virus has found its way onto your system. That last one wouldn't surprise me, and it's worth checking (especially if you run Windows or Android) just in case. If changing the skin helps, then your browser's render engine may be the source of the issue. Try updating the browser or rolling back if an update has occurred recently. drewmunn talk 16:22, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Changing skins: No it didn't help, no. Browser update is not the issue. Virus? Possible, especially if DLL injector or rootkit, although I can't see how; will do a reformat later. Speaking of viruses, why can anyone edit my JavaScript preferences? Isn't that a major security risk? Or are these just logged into the userspace, i.e. Wikipedia doesn't actually load them from there? — Ginsuloft (talk) 16:48, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I only mention a virus because I got almost exactly the same symptoms a few years back when I was using Windows, except mine wasn't limited to Wikipedia. Regarding your JavaScript preferences, I don't believe they're loaded from there, although scripts in general are the weakest part of Wikipedia (hence the bright red warnings everywhere when you edit one). drewmunn talk 16:56, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know. However, I have seen other people blame similar complaints on the new Universal Language Selector (the gear-shaped thing in the "Languages" sidebar).  Depending on exactly when "yesterday" was for you, that might explain it, since it was turned on approximately about then.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:14, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, that might be it, because it's the worst at pages with many language links. Right now I'm using Chrome to browse Wikipedia since it's a bit faster and temporarily mitigates the issue but I'd like to switch back to Firefox soon as I'm not used to Chrome. Re: Sonicdrewdriver, wasn't virus, reformatted and still the same problem. A shame, since I like to analyze them. Virut is my favorite, since it's such a tiny compact piece of ingenuity (the virus, not the spam botnet). &mdash; Ginsuloft (talk) 00:08, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Changing the name of an article
How do I change the name of the article Constant purchasing power accounting to Capital Maintenance in Units of Constant Purchasing Power? SpikeLimmigan (talk) 16:38, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * This should probably be discussed on the article's talk page. See the process set out at WP:RM/CM.--ukexpat (talk) 16:49, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Colin Carter
Hi: A visiting scholar from China created a wikipedia page for me about 7 years ago. Colin Carter

He inadvertently used a username that was some combination of my name. At the time he probably did not understand this would raise an issue. As a result of him using a login that was similar to my name, the page has carried the following disclaimer for several years now. "A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point of view."

Could you please consider removing this disclaimer? I am a distinguished Professor at the University of California, Davis, & find this disclaimer somewhat embarrassing.

Thank you so much for your consideration.

Colin Carter UC Davis


 * On the basis that that user's edits were either non-controversial or have been reverted, I have removed the tag. The tone of the article does, however, need work.--ukexpat (talk) 16:55, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Referencing multiple times from the same reference
I was wondering if anyoe could help me with a referencing issue. If one is referencing more than once from the same reference can you make it so it links to the one listed reference or must the reference be duplicated in the ref section? The One Master Of Puppets (Talk) 17:17, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, and it is generally prefered. See References and Help:Footnotes. See Sherrod Brown for an example of an article that I just did such a combine operation on (as well as changing bare refs to titles).Naraht (talk) 17:27, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you kindly The One Master Of Puppets (Talk) 17:30, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Please note that the WP:CITEVAR guideline calls for using the same style of citation in new citations as in existing citations. So before following the advice above, be sure to examine the existing style of citations in the article you are going to work on. If the article does not combine citations and you think it should, you should discuss the change on the article's talk page. Jc3s5h (talk) 17:44, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think I've ever seen an article where citations were deliberately not combined, except for Harvard-style footnotes. If I ever came across an article with regular (non-Harvard) references, where repeated citations were not combined, I'd assume that this was a mistake, and fix it. I hope you're not saying that editors should assume that such cases were deliberate, or that they should (again, for non-Harvard style references) consult with other editors before using a name= parameter in a ref tag. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 02:14, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The links provided by naraht assume one particular style of citation. One should be sure to see whether that is the style already being used in the article before using it. I'd be surprised if an article didn't combine citations in some way, but there are a lot of different ways. Jc3s5h (talk) 02:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Pioneer Chicken
Dear Sir Very Sorry,my limited English, We found an incorrect information on Pioneer Chicken articles, "AFC purchased Pioneer Chicken Franchise and",

AFC ever purchased any Pioneer Franchaise business rights, AFC only taken Pioneer Chicken Franchaise locations of all most location tenant's leases rigjts and attached businesss equipments,and not Franchise right or any Pioneer Chicken business rights including IP and others,

Please correct this wrong informations, Pioneer Chicken all property and business rights owned us.

—Please contact us if your desk have any qustions. Your Sincerely Kye S. Chung Los Angeles CA  76.94.211.60 (talk) 18:00, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Could you provide a reference for this change? If you can, someone will implement it. drewmunn talk 18:02, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Changing the name of a page with a name that already exists
How can i change the name of a page with a name that already exists ? I wrote the page CAST_Software without specifiing the name of the page (it was in my sandbox) and when it went live, it was named CAST Software. My problem is that the company name is CAST and a page named CAST already exists... What can I do ?


 * I have moved it to CAST (company).--ukexpat (talk) 18:35, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * And the reason you couldn't move it yourself yet is because you are not yet an autoconfirmed user. Howicus (talk) 18:38, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

References disappeared + how to edit a reference
I have edited the article on guitarist Jason Everman, adding information from an article published in the NYT today. I wrote up the article name, retrieval date etc. in the reference section. For some reason, the link did not show, the name of the article thus in red. I tried to edit the reference, and now I have somehow deleted the reference list. Here is the link for the reference 3 in the article ("my" reference): NY Times article

Oh, and finally, I have also struggled to find a way to cite the two lines from the article; I do not see a cite function in the tool bar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hr.theIn (talk • contribs)


 * Right, I've fixed the reflist for you; if you copy over the nowiki tags, the code example won't activate. Don't worry, I've removed it. Anyway, on with the rest of it! When citing an article available on the Internet, as your's is, you'd use the  structure. Below is a copy of what your reference should look like:
 * That will correctly prepare the reference for use. You'll note I trimmed the URL down to remove the extra information that wasn't necessary. You don't have to do that, I just prefer doing my references that way. Also, note that I changed the name of the reference just so it'd be easier to catalog in the future. If you insert that in the place of your attempt (without the code and nowiki tags), you should find it works fine! As far as citing actual lines, this isn't necessary. As long as the source backs up the information somewhere, you don't need to specify where. I hope this helps! drewmunn talk 19:48, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've restored the content that was deleted by the Visual Editor. Good luck! Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:09, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Visual seems to be causing quite a few issues, I'm glad I've disabled it! drewmunn talk 21:42, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Visual seems to be causing quite a few issues, I'm glad I've disabled it! drewmunn talk 21:42, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Problems editing with beta versions?
I edited the second paragraph under Family of this article a few minutes ago, and the links and citation I formatted in the usual way while editing didn't show up as links and citation after I had saved the edit. While I was editing, there was something about a beta version on the page (sorry I can't be more specific). Any help with this would be much appreciated. NinaGreen (talk) 19:32, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The Visual Editor barfed: [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richard_Rich,_1st_Baron_Rich&diff=562587470&oldid=562435942]. Remove the &lt;nowiki> and &lt;/nowiki> and you'll be good to go.  -- N  Y  Kevin   20:26, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I did that, and it worked. NinaGreen (talk) 21:47, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

F-20 Fighter
As a Lt. Colonel, I was one of the very few active duty USAF pilots to fly the F-20. I later was the guy going around the world in an attempt to sell it. My boss, Ralph Wetterhahn, also flew it and later wrote a great article about the plane's history in Air & Space magazine. How would be incorporate that information in the F-20 article?

Rich Buickerood Colonel, USAF, retired


 * Post the information to the article talk page, giving a reference to the article in Air and Space magazine.   Robert McClenon (talk) 00:28, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Alternatively, you can add information (not large chunks of text, but information, so there is no copyright violation), from the the Air and Space magazine, directly to the article, and add a citation (see Help:Referencing for beginners wherever you add this information. That's more complicated, but gets the job done. (You might start with adding just a little information, to see what happens, then continue with some more in a day or two.)  -- John Broughton  (♫♫)


 * Also, you may not use your personal knowledge or experiences as sources for the article. Everything that goes into a Wikipedia article should be able to be checked against a published source.  So the Air & Space article is great for a reference but your personal recollections are not.  See WP:OR.  Dismas |(talk) 10:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Cited reference now gives 404, I have the text open in my browser. What can I do?
A reference I have cited for Nimbuzz, http://www.techberita.com/nimbuzz-reaches-150-million-worldwide-user-mark/730/ now gives a 404. Seeing if this was indeed the case I opened the page, and my browser has apparently filled the content for me from the cache. If I open the page again, it clearly is a 404.

So, I have the content available to me, what can I do? Am I allowed to save the whole page somewhere? Just the bit that I require for my cite? Do I have to let it go because no one else can verify that it's the unaltered text? Please advise :) I'm at work, so I don't really have time to trawl through all the policy docs sorry.

JoltColaOfEvil (talk) 23:32, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The Google search finds plenty of other sites with presumably the same story. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:02, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The headline is easy to search for; the actual text I want to cite is commenting on a different aspect. I have another citation anyway, I'm not too worried about that. What I am interested in is my above question. What is the process available to me in the situation outlined? JoltColaOfEvil (talk) 00:44, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * There is no special dispensation or authority given to those who edit Wikipedia with regard to making copies of copyrighted material. So, for example, you cannot (legally) copy the content of (the cache of) a page, and post that content on a page of your own, and then link (from the Wikipedia article) to your page. You do have some options - see WP:EIW for descriptions. You can, for example, make a copy of the page at WebCite; you can also, if the page is old enough, and archived at archive.org (the Wayback Machine), link to a page there rather than using the original link. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:59, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It looks like WebCite will only work if the page is still available generally. In this case, it's not; I only have it available due to caching. It looks like my only available option is the quote=  parameter. I don't really need it for the article, I was just interested in the options. Thanks for your help. JoltColaOfEvil (talk) 02:40, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Have you checked if the Internet Wayback Machine has an archived copy? RJFJR (talk) 13:39, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The only copy, dated 3 July 2013, only has the 404 sadly. I no longer have access to the full content. Yesterday I saved in my sandbox a quote from the ref just in case, but the article doesn't really need it. JoltColaOfEvil (talk) 21:50, 3 July 2013 (UTC)