Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 July 9

= July 9 =

Italics in title
Hi, regarding the article Nintendo Network, the article's title is in italics. Other aricles such as Xbox Live that use the same infobox template don't have italicised titles, and Nintendo Network doesn't seem to have written in it. I was wondering how this situation could be solved, because the article shouldn't be in italics per WP:ITALIC, see the talk page. I also tried previewing using the Template:DISPLAYTITLE, but that didn't seem to work. I'm probably missing something obvious here, but your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, DarkToonLink (talk) 00:17, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't blame you a bit for not finding the issue. It was a template much farther down in the article, and it took me a while to find it. Wilhelm Meis (&#9742; Diskuss &#124; &#x270D; Beiträge) 03:17, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much! DarkToonLink (talk) 03:29, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Are you guys familiar with your browsers' find function? I ask because it would find something like this in about one second (by hitting + or Cmd+f on a mac, and searching for ), and I recently learned that apparently about 90% of people are unfamiliar with it.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:28, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a good place to start! But when the italic setting is hidden, then put near page end. -Wikid77 17:47, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I did try searching the page, but didn't find the italics template there, as I noted in my original request. I also tried the DISPLAYTITLE template, but was unable to use it properly. Thanks, DarkToonLink (talk) 05:42, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * In general put near end: The prior comment gives good advice to search for "italic" just in case there is a parameter to set italics to none. However, when the cause of the italic-mode is unknown, then the sure-fire fix is to put  near the bottom of the page, such as after "==See also==" when other templates try to force the italic title in the upper text of a page. Using DISPLAYTITLE requires the exact pagename to be specified; otherwise it will leave the former italic title in place. -Wikid77 17:47, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, I started by using the find feature (using Firefox on my Mac if anyone cares), looking for italic, but I ended up resorting to a manual scan of the page for infoboxes and other templates, since there are quite a few of these that can cause the title to display in italics. It turns out in this case Infobox television was the culprit, and it was quite a ways down in this very large article.  I'd say searching for italic or display using the find feature is normally good advice (title would hit on every citation in the article), but it doesn't always find you what you're looking for. If not, try finding infobox. Wilhelm Meis (&#9742; Diskuss &#124; &#x270D; Beiträge) 01:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There's a disconnect between my post and what happened, because of my error. When I glanced at the diff of your fix, obviously too quickly, I saw "italic" (in "italic_title = no") and so thought "they should have (and must not have) used find", but of course I reversed it; your change was to add that, not modify something with italic in it that preexisted and was the culprit. My post was based on this misunderstanding. Sorry bout that.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:33, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, that's ok. But yeah, it was the absence of that italic field that led to me not really knowing what to do. Thanks,  Dark Toon Link Heyaah! 23:31, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

BRICK WALL
I understand that Wikipedia has strict protocols to verify articles. However, not accepting conclusions from original research and investigation as references exclude reference to ALL knowledge. We accept that Capt. Cook discovered Australia by reference to a Log Book. We accept that the USSR sent a dog into space from their report and a few grainy film strips of a dog in a container. We accept that man first walked the Earth in Africa from research into bones. Yet Wikipedia will not accept conclusions from a Commonwealth of Australia, (Australian Army History Unit), professional 22-page investigation into verifiable, (alive today witnesses statements), from numbers of military officers signed off by the Australian Army's most senior officer, The Chief of the Army. Wikipedia calls for increased patronage of its publication yet discourages this by requiring participation only by those who have advanced computer skills, have knowledge of an editing language which require a pre-course of learning, (example HTML's), and then denies acceptability of a verifiable, provable, conclusive weight of evidence from unimpeachable sources, (commonly called fact). One can only conclude therefore that Wikipedia is more intent on insisting on its inflexible, bureaucratic standards than recording historical truth. So be it! Laurie nicholson (talk) 01:59, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Where was this investigation published? How can we verify what has not been published? -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  02:09, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ...have knowledge of an editing language which require a pre-course of learning...
 * I should point out that WP:Visual Editor just launched, so you could try using that. DarkToonLink (talk) 03:26, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Laurie - I've had a look at your contribution here and can only guess that your concerns relate to the article Australian Army Training Team Vietnam. Am I right? I can't see where you have experienced rejection of an Army report as a suitable source. Can you elaborate a little please? HiLo48 (talk) 04:01, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello again, Laurie. As per my responses to you here, here and here, if you can tell me how to find the report (for instance show me what web page it is on) I will help you include it in the article. There is no need for you to learn HTML etc. as I am offering to write the code for you, but I need you to provide me with the information to enable me to add it for you. If possible, please provide the following information relating to the report: author's name, date/year of publication, title of publication, publisher, location of publication, ISBN (if it has one), and the web page where it is uploaded (if it is available online). Please respond on my talk page, which you can find by clicking here. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:29, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: The log books of HMS_Endeavour, Sputnik_2 are themselves considered excellent primary sources, but neither are cited as reliable sources for the articles in question. The Soviet logs are unpublished and currently unverifiable, if they even still exist. The events described are included in Wikipedia because the general contents of both these sets of logs have been reported by external secondary sources, some of which are considered reliable.  If the reports you are trying to cite haven't been published and aren't available to the outside world, its difficult to include them here. If they have been published (even obscurely) please provide us with ISBN or some equivalent identifier.   If access is available through some other means, please describe how someone might gain access to the documents for verification.--R.S. Peale (talk) 17:48, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Edward Joseph Snowden article
I don't begin to understand the intricacies of how you do things, nor do I wish to waste my time learning them.

I only wish to question the use (or mis-use) of a word. What you do with my question is your business.

In the Edward Joseph Snowden article, he is described as being a "former technical contractor".

How can that be? How can he be described as a "contractOR"? Whom did he hire?

Is he not a "contractEE"? Is he not a person others hired to do a job?

Since you don't want to know who I am, --- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.181.253.226 (talk • contribs)


 * It means he is an Independent contractor. RudolfRed (talk) 03:03, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * What's with the denigration of our volunteer work, ---? Geez. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:30, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Quick Answer - Guild of Copy Editors
Hello all,

I had a quick question for any of you who are a member of the Guild of Copy Editors. I find that the responses at the Guild of Copy Editors portal seem to be relatively delayed, so I was wondering if any of you could answer my question here --JustBerry (talk) 03:30, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Replied there. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 04:35, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Embarrassing Wikipedia edits
Is it possible to remove the embarrassing revision/edits? Especially if on an Ip address. I found some embarrassments from 2008-2009, and I would like to get them deleted. If possible, how? Note that I moved the house during that period, so the Ip might change.

Ps. I'm NOT very serious about it.--49.231.103.152 (talk) 07:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * What's stopping you removing them yourself? Also, if you register as a Wikipedia user, all connection with your IP address disappears. HiLo48 (talk) 07:29, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * (e/c) Edits can be hidden from the page history, but they won't be hidden just because they are "embarrassing". The valid reasons are given here and here. But I wouldn't worry about it - anyone reviewing old edits will know that IP addresses can change, and there is no reason to suppose that edits made in 2008/2009 are made by the same person using the IP address today. In any case, there are no other edits recorded for the IP address you have used when posting here. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:31, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * no. I mean that can an admin delete a revision in case I am embarrassed of my edits? I know this is a lame question and I'm not serious about it. I know that I already deleted them by myself or otherwise it has been reverted already, but is it possible to delete an OLD revision?--110.49.225.35 (talk) 08:02, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * John of Reading answered your question: Any admin could hide your edits, but no admin would do so just because you are embarrassed. —teb728 t c 08:12, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Why is my IP changed again?--110.49.225.35 (talk) 08:04, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Your ISP, Super Broadband Network, is responsible for that. If you don't want to have a changing IP shown, register and login when you edit. —teb728 t c 08:21, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * If you had not asked this question there would have been no reason for anyone to look. See Streisand effect. Britmax (talk) 10:44, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

How to know whether an article has been created without knowing the exact title?
I'm thinking of trying an article about that monkey, Darwin, who wore a coat outside an IKEA in Toronto. I think his story might have actual notability, not just a lot of attention.

Anyway, I've searched a few possible titles (Darwin the Monkey, IKEA monkey, 2012 IKEA monkey incident, others) to see if I could see "A page with this name has previously been deleted", but no dice. How else might I find out?

It seems unlikely that nobody tried, seeing how Googling "darwin monkey" gets me nothing about Charles Darwin in the first ten, everything about this fellow. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:28, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It's a very good idea and i wish you much luck in it. I tried a quick Wikipedia search but even the IKEA article doesn't mention him. What about IKEA monkey? Seems the most obvious to me. Thanks and good luck ツ Jenova   20  (email) 09:41, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Ikea Monkey and IKEA Monkey were deleted. See Articles for deletion/Ikea Monkey. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:07, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'd tried "IKEA monkey" (lowercase). That AfD is exactly what I was looking for. There's been much more about him since then, including a high-profile custody battle. Worth a second shot. Is there a way to have an article undeleted, given the lasting significance that wasn't there yet? It'd be easier than starting from scratch. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:32, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, I found Requests for undeletion. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:40, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Another option is to have an admin userfy the old version so that you can add to it in your user sandbox. Then move it out when it's ready.  Dismas |(talk) 04:26, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I did. Worked perfectly. I've always wanted a sandbox with a monkey in it. I renamed him "Darwin (monkey)" and groomed him a bit. Wasn't in the best shape when he was deleted, but he'll be fattened up and ready to return to the Wikiwild in a day or two. Thanks, people! InedibleHulk (talk) 06:04, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

form F125-01 - Declaration for racial category
We have been asked by the Department of trade and industry to completed the above mentioned form. Please can you advise us of where can we download the form from

Kind regards Tinky


 * Sorry, this doesn't seem to be related to Wikipedia. As that's our area of expertise, we can't help you. Try asking the DoT. drewmunn talk 11:04, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Or at the Reference Desk.--ukexpat (talk) 12:50, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Adding a reference which is a hyperlink
I want to reference legislation which can be located via hyperlink, how do I do this without errors onscreen?

The page I am trying to edit is Commissioner for Older People for Northern Ireland. (COPNI)
 * Use the cite web template, and the information will appear correctly formatted. I hope this helps. drewmunn talk 11:02, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Notable People
I would like to add a very notable person from Lafayette,LA
 * They'd need to pass certain criteria, and we can't tell if they do without you telling us who they are! drewmunn talk 11:02, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Take a look at WP:BIO for the guidelines.--ukexpat (talk) 12:55, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm very confused about copyright
I can't work out if what I have done is right or wrong! I have put quotation marks and put all the references. I am very new to this! This page Highspiritswow (talk) 11:07, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it's wrong. We don't accept articles made up from quotes, no matter how you present them. See WP:QUOTES for information on this; the odd quote may be necessary in a review section, for instance, but all of the content you've quote can be expressed in a less bias manner that does not infringe the copyright of the references' authors. drewmunn talk 11:11, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks like an experienced editor has done some cleanup of the article. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 20:37, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Correcting template markup
I created a template in my userspace at User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Template:NFCC below TOO, which I modeled after File page NFCC concerns tag. It doesn't display correctly, probably because I missed some curly brackets somewhere or have too many of them. Can somebody take a look and tell me where the problem is or correct it? That would be appreciated. For where this template is coming from, please see Wikipedia talk:Non-free content review. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  13:45, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I've fixed it. Notepad++ is good for templates, as if you select an open/close bracket it highlights the matching close/open bracket for you. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Regarding Notepad++, I really didn't think of this possibility. It's a good tipp. --  Toshio   Yamaguchi  14:22, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Update on submited info
Good morning

Months ago we submited information on our Dr Ariel David Soffer and we have not gotten an answerr on it yet,

Please let me know our phone number is (REDACTED)

Thanks

Tainet Gonzalez — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.162.86.65 (talk • contribs)


 * You never submitted Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Ariel Soffer. The template for submission, is shown at Articles for creation, and should be added to the top of the draft. Dru of Id (talk) 14:29, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * And who are the "we" that you speak of?--ukexpat (talk) 14:39, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Why is Soffer notable? Because he's been a TV consultant since 2012?  Because he runs a health institute that bears his name?  What's a "healthcare application"?  Does that mean an application for a medical-related patent, or a piece of software?  Or is it jargon that is only understood by people in his related field?  We don't need his entire educational history here. Wikipedia is not a resume.  Titles of books should be italicized (Wikipedia DOES have a Manual of Style). The text wall under Books and Publications should be clarified somehow, assuming any of it is relevant.  The languages he speaks is not relevant unless it somehow ties into his notability, ex: if he's giving medical advice on TV in three different languages, making him the first person to do so, that's great.  Where are the independent articles that have been written ABOUT Soffer?  That's what's going to really establish whether or not Soffer deserves an article on Wikipedia.  Also, please read WP:COI.  You probably shouldn't be writing about "your" Dr. Ariel David Soffer.  Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:32, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Category:Texas A&M articles with to-do lists
Hi, I tried to create the page for Category:Texas A&M articles with to-do lists after noticing it was missing. But it wouldn't let me. 138.162.8.57 (talk) 14:47, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * IPs can not create pages. You would need to sign up for an account to create it. C T F 8 3 !  15:27, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for the response. I won't be contributing then. I thought anybody could edit. Sorry for the inconvenience. 138.162.8.58 (talk) 16:23, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The Article wizard has an option for editors who wish to create a category without registering an account. Follow the "Create something else" link on the first page of the wizard. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:29, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to worry about it. I tried and I can't so I'm not going to spend a bunch of time figuring out wizards or workarounds. Thanks for the help you can mark this as closed or whatever you do. 138.162.8.59 (talk) 17:41, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Its always a shame when the policies we have in place drive off potential new users because we don't have trust anymore. I don't think VisualEditor is going to fix that. I created the category mentioned above as well as several other related ones. Kumioko (talk) 19:50, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

A little mess on "Defiance episodes"
Hello... Џонаја brought this up on the talk page of Defiance's episodes list and I think they are right. The word "episodes" should not be written with a capital "E". I searched it a little to see if I could move the page to a new one with not a capital "e" but I found a little mess regarding the episodes :/ If anyone can help..?

First, there is already a page named List of Defiance episodes with no capital "e" that redirects to the main article of the series Defiance on the episodes' section. And second, there is also a page named Defiance episodes that redirects to the List of Defiance Episodes with capital "e".

I don't know if the second "issue" is wrong, but about the first one...how can the page get "deleted" so the list with the capital "e" can be moved under a new title? What about the second part though? Is that needed to be changed too? In case the page will be renamed? If anyone can help with this little mess we would really appreciate it! Thanks! TeamGale (talk) 14:50, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The correct title would be "List of Defiance episodes", but since there is already a redirect in place you will have to g via WP:Requested moves and have an admin perform the move. However, I think the best option here would be to redirect the page to Defiance (TV series), Defiance (TV series) already contains all the information needed (even the lead is just copy-pasted from the Defiance article), and until there's a second season there's not really any need to have a separate episode article.  Я ehevkor ✉  15:12, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll read the page and see what I can do there :)
 * The story of why the "list" was created is kind of long. The episodes' section on the main article had long summaries for each episode and there was a suggestion to make a new page about it or shortened the summaries. Since there was no other place for a detailed summary, to not lose the info about the episodes, the list was created. When I personally added it on the main article as "see also: Episodes of Defiance" in the episodes' section and removed the table, it was reverted because as they said, the show was only one season and that it's not necessary. So, people just started shortening the summaries to make the section "not that long" and few other people complained that there were so many things cut from the summaries that they were not informative. Anyway, at the beginning, the "list" page was including the detailed summaries but since then, each episode has its own page with a full summary. That's why the long summaries on the "list" page were also replaced with short ones. What I want to say is that there was already a lot back and forth about the subject and a new redirect, when we know there will be a second season in the future and the redirect will have to be removed again, won't be "helpful"...I don't know. But if the redirect is necessary then it should be done.
 * I'll read the page with the request moves to see how I can ask for the move and see what will happen. Like I said, if the redirect is necessary then no problem at all. Thank you again for the help and for providing me with the link :) TeamGale (talk) 17:50, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Queen's Remembrancer
Fact: Ian Scott Warren succeeded Bickford Smith as Queen's Remembrancer and preceeded Topley Sent in by Warren's step daughter, Priscilla Newman 81.107.129.92 (talk) 15:59, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * ~ Charmlet -talk- 16:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If so, you should post at Talk:Queen's Remembrancer and ask to have the list amended. Unfortunately we cannot accept your unverified word for this alone.  Rojomoke (talk) 16:12, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

editing of articles
Hi My name is Alpay..I am working as an artist manager and wanted to update the page of my artist Waldemar Bastos. since may I am trying and trying again and again and my chan ges don´t appear! What am I doing wrong?

Please help soon as the infos needed to be changed immediately!

thanks in advance

alpay — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.9.194.143 (talk • contribs)


 * Your edits have been reverted as copyright violations, see WP:COPVIO. Even if appropriate permission was obtained to use the material (see the process at WP:IOWN), the tone of the material would probably still be inappropriate. As you have an obvious conflict of interest, please read WP:COI and WP:BESTCOI. You are strongly advised not to edit the article yourself, but to use the article's talk page to request edits, supported by reliable, third party, sources.--ukexpat (talk) 17:30, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

I am not sure if my article has been submitted!
Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Guy Mankowski

Hello, I am new to Wikipedia and keen to learn how to write an article. The article that I have written has been rejected due to its sources and tone, and I have now edited and saved it. But on previous submissions it showed where the pending article was in a ranking and now I can see no evidence of this! Please be gentle, am new to this...thanks! Claire — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clairejones19883 (talk • contribs)


 * The draft is not yet in the queue for review. Please add to the top of the page and click save - this will add it to the queue. Please note that the queue is severely backlogged and it may take a week or longer for one of the volunteer reviewers to get to it.--ukexpat (talk) 19:36, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

ODS Activation Step Failed
Request REQUUEST has not or not correctly been updated — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.91.201.54 (talk)
 * Please explain what this is about. Were you trying to edit an article in Wikipedia?  If so, please explain.  If you were doing something other than in Wikipedia, then please be aware that the Help Desk is for help in editing Wikipedia.  However, if this is a non-Wikipedia technical question, you might try the WP:Reference Desk instead.    Robert McClenon (talk) 02:00, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe it might refer to this typo, which I have now fixed, . CaptRik (talk) 12:37, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Duxs
why has my addition, the duxs not permitted and how do I go about fixing this — Preceding unsigned comment added by Headquacker (talk • contribs)
 * If you can tell us what addition you mean, we may be able to help you. Maproom (talk) 22:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * What addition are you talking about? Where did you make it? I would normally look at other contributions you have made to try to work it out myself, but your post immediately above is the only one you have made from your "Headquacker" account. HiLo48 (talk) 22:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I now realise that a question by "Headquacker", that mentions "duxs", is probably Technoquat trolling again. Maproom (talk) 22:14, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/The Duxs was deleted as a copyright infringement of http://theduxs.com/. The copyright issue could be dealt with but there would still be other reasons for deletion. There is no evidence of satisfying Notability (organizations and companies). PrimeHunter (talk) 22:52, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

IDP
In IDP, it says there are 210000 IDPs in Cyprus , the all population is 865000 in the island , 265000 in the south , north part is in EU, then where are the IDPs? Its a political problem, island was divided into two after a violation , now every people has their house , please delete this part... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.179.116.187 (talk • contribs) 21:59, 9 July 2013‎ (UTC)


 * What is IDP? HiLo48 (talk) 22:04, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * GIYF: . (I realize the question was a little cryptic, but he is probably not native English speaking).  This should be a Help Desk, so a little more effort to help before deflecting questions or sending people to other desks would be useful.TCO (talk) 22:09, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * WTF? I DID Google it, and the question became no clearer to me. I don't care what languages the OP speaks, it's pretty silly to use unexplained abbreviations in any language. I would never do it. Would you? And mine was a completely innocent question! So keep your attacks to yourself. HiLo48 (talk) 03:01, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Here it must mean internally displaced person. That article says "Cyprus has about 210,000 IDPs". Maproom (talk) 22:12, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * But if you read the question carefully, this is not a request for information or clarification, this is a political complaint about the content of an article. Original poster: in general you should put this sort of question at the article's talk page (here, Talk:internally displaced person) but in this case I have edited the article to add a reference, and to mention that there is a dispute about whether there continue to be displaced persons in Cyprus. --ColinFine (talk) 12:33, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

name references tab works intermittently
Why does the named refs tool work sometimes and then very often not? TCO (talk) 22:05, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you be more specific about what is happeniong? If there is a real problem ask at WP:VPT.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 21:21, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Questions on how to edit (questions not answered on "Help" pages)
When inserting a reference, one puts (with added slash) where the reference ends. But does "ref" instruct the editor/writer/reviser to insert a sequential footnote number (e.g., <3>, )? Or does the Wiki software automatically number the notes (starting with 1), in which case "ref" and not "3" goes between the <> marks?

Why does the preview page (shown in response to clicking the "show preview" button, omit almost all to the revised text by sending it out of sight off the right hand margin? How do I get to actually see the results of my editing?

Why can't I backspace from preview (back arrow at upper left of screen) without losing my edits? When I hit the back arrow I get this message: "Data you have entered may [meaning will] not be saved." This seems to mean that if you want to preview the results of what you have written, you must subsequently go back, start over, and reconstruct your original edits -- because they were not saved.

Atticusattor (talk) 22:16, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The wiki software automatically generates the numbers.
 * To see the reference that you have added, edit the whole page, rather than just the section where you are adding the reference.
 * There's no need to "backspace" from preview. There's a copy of the edit panel at the bottom of the preview page. At least there is if you are using the old-style editor; I can't advise on the new "Visual editor". Maproom (talk) 22:32, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

When you talk about "sending your text over to the right", do you mean a line that looks like this? Misformatted text that will scroll across to the right to the amazement and befuddlement of anybody that hasn't dealt with Wikipedia before because it makes no rational sense and no editor would have ever wanted this to happen so there's no good explanation as to why our software does it.

If so, the answer is simple: don't use a space as the first character of a line. Ever.&mdash;Kww(talk) 23:26, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * To add to the answer for the first question, does Referencing for beginners help you? Dismas |(talk) 23:27, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Regarding "To see the reference that you have added, edit the whole page, rather than just the section where you are adding the reference", this is certainly one option. Another option is to add or (to show how long I've been editing), temporarily, do a page preview, and then - before saving the page - remove what you temporarily added. This isn't perfect - if the body of a citation is in another section, and only a  tag is in the section you're editing, the software will complain (I find this easy to ignore). And you have to remember to remove the text you added to get the references to show.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 04:08, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * About backspacing from preview: it depends on your browser. I have been told, for example, that Mozilla Firefox will let you do it.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 21:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

(Tag: VisualEditor)
Is there a way to eliminate this from revision history, watchlist, and anywhere else it appears? It's not particularly useful given how many editors are apparently using it.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:37, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There's probably some fancy Javascript way. I'm not sure how to interpret your comment, though: my watchlist shows that about 4% of edits are using Visual Editor. Are you getting a dramatically different percentage?&mdash;Kww(talk) 22:49, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * My gosh, Kevin, you counted? I'm not going to count, but I can safely tell you it's less than 25%. But what good is it? Am I supposed to suspect editors who use it more than those who don't? The tags are supposed to be useful (e.g., BLP tag) - more like a flag than a tag.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I can count to 46 pretty rapidly: not a big effort. The purpose is to have people review them so that they can fix articles that Visual Editor has chewed up. It's actually better to look at Filter 550 for that, though, as it shows all the articles that are getting corrupted by VE's mishandling of an editor inserting Wikimarkup.&mdash;Kww(talk) 23:12, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If the intended goal is to prevent corruptions, mishandling and chewing, wouldn't it be simpler to disable VE altogether? I can think of a good lot of (former) editors who've been indef'ed for less serious offenses than Visual Editor commits every single day.  Maybe a nice 6-month Wikibreak, to let VE get his/her/its act cleaned up? Failing that, PREVENTATIVE --R.S. Peale (talk) 18:42, 11 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I too have been wondering lately why I care if the edit was made with the VE. As Kww points out, I figured it had something to do with checking for the VE chewing up articles. Dismas |(talk) 01:26, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I care. The VE still has some major bugs, so I check those edits pretty carefully when they show up on my watchlist. Looie496 (talk) 02:41, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Adding the following to your CSS page:


 * Will remove all Visual Editor tag labels, but leave other tags in place. It has the side effect that the parentheses around the tag section are still shown.  If you prefer instead to exclude all Tags, parentheses included, you can use ".mw-tag-markers" rather than ".mw-tag-marker-visualeditor" to hide all Tag reports.  Dragons flight (talk) 02:53, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll try it out.--Bbb23 (talk) 03:54, 11 July 2013 (UTC)