Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 June 17

= June 17 =

Create a new cite
How do I add/make a subject? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omidnight (talk • contribs) 00:14, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * If you are asking how to create a new encyclopedia article on Wikipedia, reading Your first article would be a good start. —teb728 t c 00:27, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Article submission
I received an email from you saying my submission on Pentacost wasn't verifiable. I have never made a submission so your email should have gone to another person. I think their email is included in the email you sent me. Best of luck - I love your site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.124.158 (talk) 00:52, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It was likely meant for someone else who uses your IP address. It was also from May 2012. Feel free to ignore it. C T F 8 3 !  01:07, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Difference?
what is diffrence b/w accessdate and date in cite_web template e.g  — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThinkingYouth (talk • contribs)
 * The "date" parameter is the date the article was published, in this case 2 May 2013. The "accessdate" parameter is the date the article was viewed and added to the article (since websites often change or move, knowing when a page was accessed allows reader to view the page exactly as it was when it was used as a reference - in theory anyway). In the example you've given, the access date is likely to be wrong; I can't see how someone could view a 2013 article in 2004... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:30, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * One could easier verify that if OP gives an article name, where the template was found. --CiaPan (talk) 08:41, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It's in the Aam Aadmi Party article. Given that the party has only existed since 2012, and the article is only a few months old, the accessdate is clearly wrong - since I've just verified that the information in the source verifies the article text, I've updated the accessdate to today. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:21, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you .TY  of  Walk 09:02, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Per the template documentation:
 * accessdate Full date when original URL was accessed; use the same format as other access and archive dates in the citations; do not wikilink. Not required for web pages or linked documents that do not change; mainly of use for web pages that change frequently or have no publication date. Can be hidden or styled by registered editors.
 * --  Gadget850talk 16:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Page not working
Duckworth–Lewis method This page is not working — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.80.48.6 (talk) 08:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Seems fine to me - what isn't working? What do you see when you try to view the page? Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:22, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

2013 chrysler 300
In a 2013 chrysler 300 will the engine shut off if the key I s not in or near the car? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.200.25.133 (talk) 09:46, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 4 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. CaptRik (talk) 11:50, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

reliable source for a biography of a living person
@been trying to update new article -Lior Varona. the last message from Wikipedia is: June 2013[edit] Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to LIOR VARONA may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page: Since 2006, he is the Director General of the Cellular Companies Forum in Israel] . Hebrew University Student Union and between the years [[1999-2000, as the Chairman of the [[National Union of Israeli Students] . Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 08:56, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Although I did everything I was asked to do' this artical has not yet been confirmed.

I'd love your help Mokedcellular (talk) 10:14, 17 June 2013 (UTC)mokedcellularMokedcellular (talk) 10:14, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have done a few minor edits, mostly removing scare quotes and fixing wikilinks. I do not know what you mean by "this artical has not yet been confirmed". Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:27, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Is the issue about being "confirmed" due to warning "Article is an orphan"? -Wikid77b (talk) 12:14, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Restoring article on Lieutenants of the Tower
There has been a brief discussion here about whether the original article on the Lieutenants of the Tower should be restored (if there was one). During the Tudor period there were two separate offices, Constable of the Tower and Lieutenant of the Tower, and the current redirect from Lieutenant of the Tower to the article on the Constables of the Tower is thus misleading. Was there an original article on the Lieutenants of the Tower which could be restored, or would one have to create an entirely new article, and if so, how could that be done in view of the current redirect? NinaGreen (talk) 15:27, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * This indicates that there has never been an article entitled "Lieutenant of the Tower of London"; it's always been a redirect, so there's no article to restore. To change the redirect into an article, simply start click this special link  and start editing. Alternatively, type "Lieutenant of the Tower of London" into the search bar or click Lieutenant of the Tower of London, then at the top of Constable of the Tower, click on the link in  . BencherliteTalk 15:36, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'm still a bit uncertain how to proceed. When I click on the special link you mention above, it takes me to, and if I then click on Edit, it takes me to this , which shows a redirect notice, i.e. #REDIRECT Constable of the Tower. Should I just delete that redirect notice, and then start editing? NinaGreen (talk) 16:16, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, deleting the redirect notice will turn it into an ordinary page. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:24, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've created the article. NinaGreen (talk) 18:24, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

please check for me c.k no of karan beef security
karan beef security c.k no — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.73.189.176 (talk) 17:03, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Please explain better, do not abreviate. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:09, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * This is the help desk for asking questions about editing and finding your way around Wikipedia. Knowledge questions should be directed to the reference desk.  However, a quick Google search suggests that a ck number is an "enterprise number" connected with the official registration of businesses in South Africa.  Here is a link to the results when you search the website of the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission for "Karan Beef".  "Karan Beef Security" returns no results.  Hope this helps. -  Ka renjc 19:08, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * http://www.karanbeef.co.za/ Seems it is a type of beef and the OP may be wondering about security relating to it. Can anyone translate "c.k no"? --Canoe1967 (talk) 19:55, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * See my reply directly above. A CK number is a company registration number in South Africa.  It's named after the CK7 and CK 1 forms you have to complete in order to register (mentioned here.) My earlier link goes to the page displaying Karan Beef's CK number. (edited to include reference to CK1 form as well as CK7) -  Ka renjc 22:03, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Eleni Foureira Article
Dear Editors of Wikipedia, I recently came across the English version of the Wikipedia article about a Greek singer called "Eleni Foureira" and I would like to report that some of the information provided is unfortunately invalid. To be more spesific, it is clearly mentioned that the singer is of Albanian origin, which does not correspond to the truth. These claims were based on a humouristic article of an Albanian editor, written in Greek language and it simply comments on some gossips around the Greek media. Foureira herself has mentioned that she comes from Greece and that she was bron in Kallithea, Athens. Her name is just of Latin origin beacause her grandfather was of Mexican origin. So I would like the article to be modified and I would also like to ask your editors to do more specific research before writing articles in such a popular online encyclopedia. Thank you beforehand. Yours faithfully, Eustathe Efstathiou — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eustathe Efstathiou (talk • contribs) 17:51, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * If you have reliable sources please fix it yourself.--ukexpat (talk) 17:58, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Tool to complete cite templates?
Does anyone have some type of tool that can fix and complete all the cites at Black Forest fire that are only partially filled-in? Some do not have the name(s) of the writer or date of the story, etc.; only the retrieved date. And many have the wrong date format - for example, 2013-06-16 instead of June 16, 2013. (The article is about a U.S. event.) Thanks! --76.189.109.155 (talk) 18:11, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * There probably is a tool, but there are only 21 references in that short article and they cover just a small range of dates. Probably easier to do by hand.  Astronaut (talk) 19:08, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * In fact, just done it. Astronaut (talk) 19:08, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, changed your mind, huh? I see you fixed the existing dates to properly format them. Thanks! But I was also hoping that someone could complete all the incomplete cites - the ones that do not credit the writer(s) of the story and/or do not include the date the story was published, etc. Thanks, again. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 19:19, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * With regard to dates, there are solutions (not needed now, of course): Date formattings.


 * With regards to cites, there are tools that take naked urls and do their best - see User:Citation bot/use, for example. But I don't know of any tool that can handle partial cites, particularly since those are unlikely to use cite web or similar templates, and thus it's not going to be obvious (to a bot) what is a title, what is an author, etc. So you end up doing manual work, either way. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 19:46, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

math
suppose it is known that in a certain population 10 percent of population is colour blind. if a random sample of 25 people is drawn from this population find the probability that thee or fewer will be colour blind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.23.105.113 (talk) 18:19, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Pictogram voting delete.svg|20px]] Please do your own homework. Welcome to the Wikipedia Help desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misevaluation, but it is our policy here not to do others' homework, but merely to aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn how to solve such problems. Please attempt to solve the problem yourself first. You can or . If you need help with a specific part of your homework, the Reference desk can help you grasp the concept.  Do not ask knowledge questions here, just those about using Wikipedia. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:23, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha. That's a good template, John. But for some reason, I feel bad for the kid. :p --76.189.109.155 (talk) 19:02, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Probability may help.--Canoe1967 (talk) 20:00, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The scary thing is that I was able to find the answer out on the web in less than 90 seconds of work.Naraht (talk) 20:09, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Funny. Hey, are kids in India in school during the summer? Maybe s/he's just interested in math. ;) --76.189.109.155 (talk) 20:18, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Most of India doesn't have "summer" - see Monsoon. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:05, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Black Forest fire
I asked a question above about completing the cites at Black Forest fire, but I have a concern about the overall format of the article. Is it appropriate to have an article about an event in which a new section is created literally every day to detail the information for that day only? As you'll see, each section heading is "(month/day/year/day of the week)". It seems like a clear violation of WP:NOTDIARY, but perhaps there's precedent for doing it this way. But shouldn't it just be written in typical article style instead of having a daily "play-by-play" format? --76.189.109.155 (talk) 19:11, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * When the fire is over there may be editors who want to restructure the article but date headings aren't uncommon for this type of event. It looks OK to me but I have shortened "June 11, 2013 (Tuesday)" to "June 11" and so on. We don't have to repeat the year every day, and we usually don't give both date and day of the week. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:28, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * PH, thanks for the attention to my concern. I see that you just made this edit, in which, as you explained, you removed the year and day of the week from the section headings, but left the month and day. I appreciate the improvement you made, which is certainly better than what it replaced. However, I still must ask if having daily section headings is proper (even in the early days of an article's development)? It seems very odd. And some sections only have a couple sentences. You said, "date headings aren't uncommon for this type of event". Is there precedent for it? And can you please provide wikilinks to a few other event articles that do this? I'd also appreciate feedback from other editors on this matter, as well. Thank you very much. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 19:36, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The lead links to Waldo Canyon fire. Another example: 2010 Russian wildfires. For a similar type of multi-day event: April 2010 tornado outbreak, Late-May 2010 tornado outbreak, April 25–28, 2011 tornado outbreak, March 18–24, 2012 tornado outbreak sequence, April 13–16, 2012 tornado outbreak, and so on. It's also common for some sport events, for example tennis Grand Slams: 2012 Wimbledon Championships, 2012 US Open (tennis), 2013 Australian Open, 2013 French Open. WP:NOTDIARY is mainly about people, but we do have articles like Timeline of the presidency of Barack Obama (2012). PrimeHunter (talk) 20:14, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * PH, thanks for providing the links. The Russian wildfires one is a very good, comparable example. A number of the other ones are different in terms of format and purpose. The sports ones aren't really applicable comparisons because they obviously need to give daily results. The tornado ones use daily tables to show the movement of the storms. And the timeline articles obviously have to use a, er, timeline format. Haha. Do you know of any other wildfire articles, besides the 2010 Russian one, that use a new date section heading every day of the event? Thanks for your effort on this! --76.189.109.155 (talk) 20:32, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Lockheed Fire is an extreme example I don't recommend. Most wildfire articles are so brief that a subdivision by date wouldn't make much sense. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:41, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Wow, "extreme" is an understatment. Haha. Nice find. The entire layout of that article is just... wrong. :p The headings, times, bullet points, etc... not good. For now, I removed the year from the headings. I have to admit, seeing that article made me laugh. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 20:43, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd have to agree. Yes, I said I agree with you, 76.189.109.155.  The main reason why the Black Forest fire article is formatted that way is because it is an ongoing wildfire, so it's easier for editors to contribute that way.  That was the case with the Waldo Canyon fire article too, and no one has gone back and integrated it.  I'd say it is time to reformat the Waldo Canyon fire article into a more integrated layout.  The Lockheed Fire article scares me a bit.  It's not really even prose, just a timeline.  It could be rewritten as prose, but it would be a lot of work! Wilhelm Meis (&#9742; Diskuss &#124; &#x270D; Beiträge) 23:53, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

setting up a page
i have been trying to set up a page for a composer, Fast Forward, and have been getting no help from wikipedia...i want to being the page with basic info and then let others expand on it..BUT I CAN'T GET THE PAGE APPROVED....please help me expedite this, thank you, John King — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.12.15.191 (talk) 19:20, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I assume this is the article in question: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Fast Forward. Please see Notability (people), and in particular Notability (music). You need to provide evidence from third party published sources that Fast Forward meets our notability guidelines - the only reference you have provided is to his own website, which is unacceptable for such purposes. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:29, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Also seems to be a conflict of interest situation involving John King (submitter) and Fast Forward (subject) - see this page, for example. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 19:49, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It does seem to be a reliable sources issue. The notability may be there but trying to Google sources with such a common phrase makes it difficult. Feeding Frenzy may be more worthy of an article but has same problem with Google searches.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:58, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Interesting... not only was the article completely unsourced (other than an external link, disguised as a reference, to the subject's own website), it didn't even include the subject's real name. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 20:14, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * When he changed his name to Fast Forward it seems he doesn't want his birth name known.--Canoe1967 (talk) 20:17, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we do know what his birth name is. ;) We include the birth names of all notable people who are known publicly by a stage name. But of course the primary problem here is that there are no reliable sources to prove notability. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 20:37, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

There is probably a name change document somewhere that a secondary source would have to publish before we can use it. I can't see any valid reason to include it. Reader curiosity maybe but if it very common like John Smith then it would just fill up our John Smith dab page with another entry. A rose by any other name is still a rose. The ethno-taggers may get frustrated that he can't be added to any of the ethic categories and may scour RS to find it though. The subject himself may have supply an article with a reliable source like a major newspaper to get the article accepted. The draft is still in talk page space so I don't know how he can provide COI input as the talk page is the normal place for COI input.--Canoe1967 (talk) 20:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, I think this is a dead issue for now. John King/50.12.15.191 came here for one purpose: to get our help to "expedite" getting the article approved. Based on all of the above, that's clearly not going to happen. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 21:00, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

tango/canyengue
Luís Grondona died in Buenos Aires during the first half of September 2012. After studying canyengue with him & Marta Anton, he became a personal friend of mine. He had suffered two strokes over the previous years & never quite recovered. I used to visit him at the casa geriátrica on calle Brasil where he spent his last days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.236.14.34 (talk) 20:33, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing that the comment is with regards to Argentine tango, where Grondona is listed but is not shown as "deceased".


 * I did a quick Google news search without any results, but perhaps there is more information (a source would be great) at another language Wikipedia, if indeed he is deceased? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 22:01, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * He is pictured and mentioned here as deceased ("fallecido") in September 2012, but I'm not sure it's a reliable enough source. - Ka renjc 22:35, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe just post the above information at Talk:Argentine tango and move on? There are over 4 million articles in Wikipedia that still need improvement; we can't fix them all from here at the Help desk. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:14, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

highest grossing films list
In the list of highest grossing films of all time, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone is listed multiple times as Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.112.75.238 (talk) 21:43, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * If you read the article for the book, you'll see that "Philosopher's" is the original title. Dismas |(talk) 21:45, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Right. The title in List of highest-grossing films was changed so many times that the wiki source now says:
 * PrimeHunter (talk) 22:39, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * PrimeHunter (talk) 22:39, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

de:wp question
Does de:wp have a parallel page to WP:AFC? We've got a babel link to it, but the link is completely unrelated; it goes to de:Wikipedia:Größenvergleich, a statistics page analogous to Size comparisons. Nyttend (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Almost certainly not, but if you want a definitive answer, you might want to post at User talk:Jan eissfeldt. He's the author of Wikipedia Signpost/2011-09-26/Opinion essay, from which I infer that he's fairly knowledgeable about what goes on at de:wp. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 22:08, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Search result returned for something that doesn't exist
If I search for "And was digitally released on June" including the quotation marks, a result for Who's My Bitch (Paradiso Girls song) is returned. But this string has never existed on that page. What's going on? Is this a bug? Thanks! SomeFreakOnTheInternet (talk) 21:55, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The search page for says "3 July 2010" for the hit on Who's My Bitch (Paradiso Girls song). Today it's a redirect but on that date it did indeed contain the quoted string. The article was deleted 5 July 2010  so the real question is why results from a page deleted 3 years ago is appearing in searches. I suspect it has something to do with the only edit after the deletion being the creation of a redirect (24 May 2012). PrimeHunter (talk) 22:21, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * This is potentially serious. I have copied the above to Village pump (technical). PrimeHunter (talk) 23:08, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Red-linked category leading to fully populated category
Category:Articles with Norwegian-language external links is fully populated, but shows up as a red link. Thanks in advance. XOttawahitech (talk) 22:19, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have created the category page. If a category hasn't been created then it will show pages in the category anyway. It may sound odd but it's very practical. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Category:Articles with Norwegian language external links (no hyphen) already existed but hyphens are being added now. It's done by changing a template so the new category was automatically populated. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:31, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks User:PrimeHunter, I have since noticed a couple of other similar categories, not sure what caused this, but both have since been fixed:
 * Category:Articles containing simplified Chinese-language text
 * Category:Articles with Russian-language external links XOttawahitech (talk) 01:44, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * but not
 * Category:Articles with Estonian-language external links XOttawahitech (talk) 05:40, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Lexington, Tennessee
The article on Lexington TN says that it is the barbecue capital of the country with more barbeque restaurants per capita than any other city in the US. I have heard and believe by personal observation that these two statements are correct for Lexington NC not Lexington TN. (I have spent much time in Lexington NC but have never been to Lexington TN.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.183.20.25 (talk) 23:02, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, we cannot go by what you've heard or believe. Content must be reliably sourced for verification. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 23:09, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The article has a reference for Lexington, TN. It had gone dead but I have updated it with . PrimeHunter (talk) 23:17, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The problem is that the source is the city's own website. Many cities make many claims about being the biggest, the best, or the first, etc. at something, which causes other cities to dispute those claims. This needs a reliable (secondary) source, so I've added a primary source tag to the sentence. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 23:27, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The city website cites writer Terry Mancour who is apparently not from the city. Mancour's statement is mentioned in many places. appears to contain Mancour's original text: "adherents to the Western style gather yearly at the Lexington Barbecue Festival to celebrate the pork shoulder/tomato sauce style in Lexington, North Carolina – a town that boasts twenty barbecue restaurants to service 17,000 people (only Lexington, Tennessee, with ten restaurants for 6,000 people has more barbecue restaurants per capita)." If we believe him then Lexington, North Carolina may be better known barbecue but Lexington, Tennessee has the record for restaurants per capita. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:52, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not saying the claims aren't accurate, but that a reliable source is needed. You linked to the website of a barbeque catering business, which linked to their own blog story written by Mancour. A restaurant or catering website is not a reliable source. Nor, as I said, is a city's own website that claims to hold a certain national title or record. So it comes down to this... we have no idea who Terry Mancour is (it doesn't matter where he's from), and most importantly, a reliable source is needed for verification. For the record, the text you presented is a good indication that these claims are suspicious and perhaps bogus. As you said, it sounds like Lexington, North Carolina, is more the barbeque capital than Lexington, Tennessee. But Tennessee is using this odd, random "per capita" measurement to proclaim themselves the "barbeque capital of the country". And both cities are relatively small (7,000 and 21,000 people), so I'll bet there are a number of other cites making the same claims. This is a great example of why we need solid, reliable sources for cities claiming they are the best, the biggest or the first, etc. at something. Interestingly, Lexington, North Carolina, makes no claims about their barbeque status. Haha. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 00:03, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The restaurant quoted Mancour's text from "North Carolina Barbecue: a Primer". I don't know how reliable it is but it wasn't written for and didn't mention the restaurant. Lexington, North Carolina says: Lexington calls itself the "Barbecue Capital of North Carolina. The city source http://visitlexingtonnc.com/ actually goes further and says: Many states have towns named “Lexington”, but only one claims to be the “Barbecue Capital of the World”. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:34, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Interesting. Well, I'm all barbequed out. How about you? All we know for sure about this is that we don't know anything for sure. Haha. Btw, I just noticed that an admin (Orange Mike) made this edit about the barbeque claims in the lead, shortly after your last comment. I think his edit is great; it proves that adding a few key words can really make a positive difference. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 03:11, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Update: I relocated the barbeque content from the lead to a more appropriate section. The claims are not only disputed and questionable, but that information was not even lead-worthy to begin with (even if true). As I said in my edit summary, it perhaps should even be removed from the article altogether, but I'll leave that to other edtiors to decide. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 03:36, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm from those parts myself (next county to the west) and understand that folks are proud of their barbecue; but every little town and county in the South brags about being the Sumthinorother Capital of the World. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  12:26, 18 June 2013 (UTC)