Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 January 5

= January 5 =

Whether to put a proposal in the 'Proposals' section or the 'Idea lab' section
I'm not asking about a specific proposal because I have made way more than one and will continue doing so. I'm asking about a general strategy for which of them to put it in. I know the 'Proposals' section is for well formed ideas. Does well formed mean it went into the Idea lab first and after alot of discussion of supporting the proposal, the same proposal gets copied into the 'Proposals' section or does well formed mean that the person themself making the proposal thought really carefully in their own head about what they're going to write and they thought about it so well that they're very sure the change the proposal is suggesting would be a useful change to Wikipedia instead of a harmful one and because they thought about it so well before they wrote it, there's no need to write it in the Idea lab first? Is there a Help page that discusses when a proposal should go in the Idea lab and when it should go in the 'Proposals' section? There's an additional problem that when a proposal goes into the Idea lab, it tends to get less attention and even if that idea was strongly enough supported to go into the 'Proposals' section, it would never make it there because it would gain enough attention for people to support it whereas if it went into the 'Proposals' section in the first place when it was supposed to go into the Idea lab, it would gain lots of attention and so many people supporting it that Wikipedia would finally make a change based on that proposal. Blackbombchu (talk) 01:32, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no requirement to use the Idea Lab ever, you can do so if you think it would be helpful. There is no stanadrd for what should or should not go thru the lap, which is realativly new. Proposals should be "well formed" in the snese that they are ready for people to say "yes" or "no" to. If during the discussion people say 'yes but" and sugest a modified version of a proposal, it can create a problem because then if the proposal is changed it sometiems is unclear if early supporters would support the modified version, especially if multiple versions are suggested. it is often a good idea to post informally to a relavant talk page, and say "I'd like to propose this" (perhaps with a link to a sandbox with draft text) ""do you think it eould fly or should it be improved". The people you most need to listen to in such cases ar not thsoe strongly oppose (unless ther are so many the proposal is pointless) but those who support conditionally or have what they think is a bettre idea. Fragmented support often dooms a proposal. Finding common ground that all or most of the suppoorts can get behanid bfore makign a formal proposal is a good idea. The lab is one way to do that, butnot the only one. If you are sure that a given proposal is in what should be its final state, and the question is simply an up or down, yes or no question, then the proposal is "well formed". DES (talk) 02:39, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Connect an article in English with the same article in other language
Dear Sir/Madam

Before, I knew I could connect an article written in English with the same article in another language by adding It:Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx, between [[, (for italian, for example) , in the end of the article.

But now, it seams things have changed and I do not know how I should do it.

Can someone help me please?

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aviz2000 (talk • contribs) 02:00, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Which English article do you wish to connect to which other article? There is general help at Help:Interlanguage links but we can say more or do it for you if you name the articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:19, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Aviz2000. Go to the article. On the left side of your screen if you scroll down a bit you should see a "languages" section with an "Edit links" section. Click that and you'll be taken to a page where you can add a link. -- Neil N  talk to me  02:20, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * All those links have been moved to a new project called Wikidata, which houses all interwikis so all editions of an article in multiple languages have the same links and don't need to be updated individually. To add a link to say, the subject's article in Italian, on the left sidebar of the page on the English entry click "Data item" in the tools section. At the bottom of the table called "Wikipedia pages linked to this item", click [add] and type the language code (like ), and then type/paste the corresponding Italian article's title there, and then click [save].&#32;~HueSatLum 02:23, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * The presence of "Edit links" and "Data item" depends on the page. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:32, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Creating Wiki Pages and avoid Deletion
I'm creating Group Company pages similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rane_(Madras)_Ltd (Rane Madras). But my pages are marked for Speedy Deletion and gets deleted. Please advise what needs to be done to avoid the same. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thinkinside (talk • contribs) 03:13, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Replied on talk page. - Purplewowies (talk) 03:30, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Titanic again
I've now created Edith Rosenbaum, can anybody willing to read the article help me correct spelling mistakes and other grammar as well as to see if the picture is well-licensed? Thank you! --Japanesehelper (talk) 03:14, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I have done some copyediting, but inline souces would be highly desireable. DES (talk) 03:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Problem With: Lake Bled
RE: Lake Bled. I was just trying to upload a photo of mine onto the gallery section of this page and inadvertently affected a change, that now has only the file names listed, and the photos themselves are gone. Sincerest apologies, Hope to remedy! Edwardwexler (talk) 04:28, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The formatting has been fixed by User:Doremo. What happened was you accidentally deleted the  tag that marked the start of the gallery.  Howicus (Did I mess up?) 04:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for reporting it. See Help:Diff for how to see your edits, in this case [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lake_Bled&diff=prev&oldid=589238794]. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:43, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

There are some problems with the Shima Province Wiki Page
The word derrick is inserted in the first sentence. It states that "the provincial capital is in simi valley california where the closest descent of the shima island is not yet a man" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.41.81.167 (talk • contribs) 07:03, 5 January 2014‎


 * It looks like vandalism - I've reverted it to the previous state. Thanks for pointing this out. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:10, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Deletion of a deletion discussion
Dear editors: An Mfd discussion about a user page, Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Josan Sandeep‎, has been blanked by the user. I haven't come across this before. Should I just revert it? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 07:43, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I did a bold RV, since the user blanked it because he didn't want the page deleted (he added his reasoning on his own talk page). I'd say that if unexplained, it should probably be reverted because it's about the same as redacting others' talk page comments. - Purplewowies (talk) 08:49, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The blanking of deletion discussions as a way to try to stop the deletion is not that uncommon (though not as common as removing the nomination notice from the page) and should almost always be reverted. Though it is not at all applicable here, note Deletion policy.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:22, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks; the discussion has been closed now. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 04:35, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Category:Lists of film characters
Hi, can anyone help diffuse Category:Lists of film characters to some of the subcategories that I've created. Sorry, it's late, and I do not have enough time to do them all. I would appreciate it if anyone can help. Thanks--NeoBatfreak (talk) 07:49, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure subcategories are a good idea here. There are only 62 pages currently and it can be practical to have them together and not worry about how a film is classified. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:18, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, based from what you said, I reverted all the pages back to the former, because I do not want to cause trouble. I want to comply Wikipedia's policy.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 20:31, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * It's just my judgment. If it came up at WP:CFD then I wouldn't support this subcategorization with so few articles but others might think different. If you no longer want the categories then you can tag them with db-g7. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:57, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

MarianoRivero
he has been constantly spamming and editing some articles and is already vandalizing some articles — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.83.57.125 (talk) 08:24, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Stop edit-warring. If you believe that the user has been vandalizing, place a warning on the user's talk page, and discuss the changes on the relevant articles' talk pages. --David Biddulph (talk) 09:19, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * MarianoRivero has been blocked and the settings for 2013 Metro Manila Film Festival have been changed so that only autoconfirmed users can edit it. -- Jreferee (talk) 18:46, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

talk page
how long does it take to get an answer? 174.19.169.92 (talk) 09:31, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Usually until the volunteer whose page you posted on can spare the time from the real world to read your question and formulate an answer. Britmax (talk) 10:42, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * As an alternative you may also look at the Wikiproject discussion pages and post your query there, there are a lot more editors checking the wikiproject talk pages that a certain article belongs to then an individual articles talk page.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  11:25, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * 174.19.169.92 - Regarding this question, there is a discussion at Talk:Ted_Cruz. Also, Cruz's dual nationality is not mentioned in the article intro because it does not meet WP:LEAD. -- Jreferee (talk) 18:31, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Article view counter
Is there a problem with the article view counter being off-line sine Jan 1? My unscientific clicking on a few pages says there is - showing several days of suddenly zero views of articles that should not have zero views. eg.  Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It happens sometimes, take a look at the developer's user page here for updates. Samwalton9 (talk) 12:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Image/Logo Upload in Wikipedia Spanish
Is there an equivalent way in the Spanish Wikipedia to upload logos similar to this: Upload or do I have to use Wikimedia commons? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xlancer (talk • contribs) 13:56, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * A bit off topic, but you cannot upload most logos to Commons as most logos are copyright and Commons only accepts free images. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  14:23, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Languages can set their own policies. es:Special:Upload says file uploads are disabled. Spanish Wikipedia says:


 * The Spanish Wikipedia only accepts free images, and has rejected fair use since 2004, after a public vote. In 2006, it was decided to phase out the use of local image uploads and to exclusively use Wikimedia Commons for images and other media in the future.


 * See Logos for which logos don't require fair use according to the English Wikipedia (I don't know whether the Spanish agrees). You would also have to be allowed to upload the logo at Commons. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:12, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very miuch Xlancer (talk) 19:47, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Transclusion question
If you add a transclusion like to a page, what does the forward slash in the template do?--Bbb23 (talk) 20:27, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I already got an answer offline.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:03, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

print size
wikipedia (and only wikipedia) is in huge print. How do I get back to regular print? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.179.210.148 (talk) 20:50, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Nothing else in the browser is ? You could use  - to make everything smaller in the browser window. StuRat (talk) 20:54, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

O'Donnell page move has caused talk page to be shared
I attempted to move Joseph O'Donnell Sr. to Joseph O'Donnell (younger). Either I messed up or the software messed up. Right now both pages share the same talk page! The talk page history is with Joseph O'Donnell (younger) and the article history is with Joseph O'Donnell Sr. If you go from Joseph O'Donnell Sr. to talk you get the Joseph O'Donnell (younger) talk page.

The reason I had for the move is explained in the talk page. The page was created about Joseph O'Donnell (Spanish general) who lived 1768-1836 and a user mistakenly changed it to Joseph O'Donnell Sr. (1722-1787), removing the original material and adding all new material. The user then copied the original material to another page: Henry O'Donnell, 1st Count of la Bisbal (1769-1834). I'm sure it was an honest mistake caused by the user believing (incorrectly) that Joseph and his brother Henry Joseph (Enrique Jose) were the same person. I've already removed the Joseph material from the Henry, Count of la Bisbal page and wrote a tactful note on the user's page explaining about the mix up. I think I've fixed all linking articles, too.

Since the move failed, please fix the shared talk page by doing whatever is the easiest for you. Or, tell me how it can be done. Just in case, I have saved copies of both pages. Thanks. Djmaschek (talk) 21:43, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ The move did not fail, it simply left a redirect when the talk page was also moved, as is normal. I have removed the redir and left and appropraite note on the talk page. Note thst is an experienced editor, who seems to agree with you that s/he made a mistake on this occasion. Take a look at my edits if you want to see what i did. DES (talk) 22:13, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Fixing double redirects - are they "minor" edits or major?
I recently moved a page and was snapping the redirects. Am I supposed to mark alongside the edit summary the "minor edit" box, or leave that unchecked? meteor_sandwich_yum (talk) 22:29, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You are never required to mark an edit as minor. In general, merely technical edits that do nothing but correct spelling, grammer, and markup without changing the meaning can be marked as minor. So I would propbably mark ficing a double redir as minor. But it is an er minor issue either way. See WP:Minor edit. DES (talk) 22:39, 5 January 2014 (UTC)