Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 July 13

= July 13 =

Referencing errors on Phil Kessel
Reference help requested.

I don't know what you're talking about in the message you left.

Thanks, Phil Kessel (talk) 03:07, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It looks like someone else fixed the problem for you. Piguy101 (talk) 03:15, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That message is from a bot, based on an error within two particular uses of the cite web template. Since the template uses vertical bars | to separate elements in the template, a vertical bar as part of the title can't be used. It was objecting to the fact that WC-17 and WC were after vertical bars and it didn't know what to do with them. I've fixed it by changing those vertical bars to the {!} . Sort of tricky, I agree. Also, please read both the Conflict of Interest and WP:REALNAME policies, since I believe they apply to your situation.Naraht (talk) 03:17, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

I still don't understand what I did wrong. I also don't get the conflict of interest part. I don't have one. I was just updating the page to contain more (sourced) information. I wasn't putting in my own opinions. I don't mind not doing what I was doing again it's just I still don't understand what any of this means. sorry! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phil Kessel (talk • contribs) 03:46, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Because your username is the same name as the article, you may have a conflict of interest. It shouldn't be a problem unless you add promotional, or otherwise problematic content to the Phil Kessel page. In addition, if you try to pretend that you really are Phil Kessel, problems may arise. I am not sure what to do if you really are Phil Kessel. Piguy101 (talk) 03:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

ha ha...okay now i get. No, don't worry I'd never troll on any Leafs-related pages or put promotional stuff or anything. I only made a bunch of changes to the Kessel article because it was badly written and was missing a bunch of stuff. But the stuff I put in was neutral enough...it was just adding more information that was consistent with what you would find on any other hockey player's page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phil Kessel (talk • contribs) 03:55, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The "bot" was complaining about some technical stuff, titles for the cites can't contain vertical bars unless you do some special stuff. I definitely agree "neutral enough". I've done some tweeks on the addition to Amanda Kessel, but they are mistakes (things put on the wrong side on the vertical bar in links, using an external link to refer back to wikipedia etc.Naraht (talk) 04:53, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Speedy Deleter Statistics
Is there a way to see, for a particular user, how many articles they have flagged for speedy deletion and what these articles are/were?

I can see how many deletes a particular administrator has effected (WP:Adminstats), but I'm looking for statistics on people (or a particular person) who first flags an article for speedy deletion.

(I've just had a new article speedy deleted, and am trying to better understand the speedy delete process. I have read the "Deletion policy".)

Thanks. NingBing (talk) 03:10, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if I can help you with part of your request, but I can tell you that RHaworth deleted Three word budget for the reason "Article about an organized event (tour, function, meeting, party, etc.), which does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject." You can talk to him directly on his talkpage if you wish. Piguy101 (talk) 03:13, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, here is the list of pages that RHaworth has deleted: I hope that this is what you want. Piguy101 (talk) 03:18, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Piguy101. It's not RHaworth's activity I'm interested in. He's the administrator who effected the delete (and I've been in communication with him). It's "The Drover's Wife" I'd like to see stats on, this is the person who flagged the article for speedy deletion. NingBing (talk) 04:28, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * User:The Drover's Wife posted on your talk page the notice that Three word budget had been nominated for speedy deletion and is probably the one who nominated it. —teb728 t c 05:47, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks teb728, I saw that (and mentioned that here). Two individuals were involved in the deletion. The Drover's Wife tagged it for speedy deletion and RHowarth was the administrator who did the deletion. For the administrator (RHowarth) I can see how many articles he has deleted and which articles he has deleted. I'd like to see similar information for the person (The Drover's Wife) who tagged the article for speedy deletion. Is this possible (tagger not administrator)? If so how, please? NingBing (talk) 06:00, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I'm the one who flagged the article for speedy deletion. I did so because it was an obvious candidate - it was a flash-in-the-pan Twitter tag which attracted bugger all mainstream media attention and was completely forgotten about by the next week. It roundly failed even the most basic notability criteria for articles that Wikipedia has. I generally err on the side of including material on Wikipedia, I'm Australian, and I'm a fervent opponent of this budget (and thus agree with you politically) - this was just something that couldn't meet even the lowest possible bar Wikipedia has. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 05:54, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no easy way of finding this information since the edit adding the CSD tag gets deleted along with the article. If the user uses Twinkle to add the CSD tags they can optionally have Twinkle keep a log of articles they have nominated, but The Drover's Wife does not seem to have enabled this option.  In principle, you could find the CSD nominations that have been declined by an administrator by going through the user's contribution history, but this would be quite a tedious process.  In any case, I don't think that is a very useful way of trying to understand why your article was deleted.  Try looking at WP:42 instead. SpinningSpark 13:47, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


 * At the bottom of every user's contributions history is a link to "edit count". This report includes a count of deleted edits without a breakdown by namespace. Thus the report for the Driver's Wife reports 28 deleted edits. I cannot think why you need to know what these were but I will tell you for free that they are about 8 deletion nominations and multiple edits to User:The Drover's Wife/Tony Bourke (Australian politician) and User:The Drover's Wife/Rod Mackenzie both deleted at the Wife's own request.
 * In general if a user is active, then an high count of deleted edits probably indicates that they are doing deletion nominations. You will also get some good clues from the number of deletion warnings that they have placed on other users' talk pages and the number of deletion warnings placed by other users on their talk page. &mdash; RHaworth (talk · contribs) 18:50, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks a lot SpinningSpark and RHowarth. I shall take WP42 as my guide. NingBing (talk) 23:14, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

The day and month on whichVaralakshmi vratam is celebrate d
With reference to the above article I wish to point out that Varalakshmi vratam is always celebrated ,at least  in the states of Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka, on a Friday that precedes the Full moon day in the month of Shrava and not on a  Thursday  in the month ofMargashirsha,as stated. During this year( 2014 ) this falla on 8 August which is a Friday. During this year the month of Shravan falls between 27 July to 25 August (rainy season), whereas the month of Margashirsha falls from 23 November to 22 December( Winter season). VaraLakshmi Vratam is celebrated on a Friday before the Fullmoon day is perhaps due to the fact that during the year in which Lakshmi was born was a full moon day which also happened to be a Friday. Interesting to note that Lord Krishna was born Just eight days after this full moon day according to Sri MahaBhagavat. Ref: Sri MahaBhagavat and Telugu Calender                                          B.K.Satyanarayana  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.195.236.126 (talk) 09:01, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The article Varalakshmi Vratam already states that the occasion is celebrated ...on the Second Friday or the Friday before full moon day - Poornima in the month of Śravaṇā, also called Śawan in Hindi, which corresponds to the English months of July–August. However, the article Mahalakshmi vrata states that Mahalakshmi Vrata or Varalaksmi Vratha is a sacred day in Hinduism. The ceremony is performed by men or women (typically married Hindu ladies) on the Thursday before the full moon in the month of Margashirsha in the Hindu calendar (corresponding to November/December in the western calendar). If these two festivals are indeed one and the same, the two articles may need to be merged by someone familiar with this process.  A suitable place to continue the discussion would be at the talk page of one of the articles Noyster   (talk),  09:26, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Problems with WelcomeMenu
The implementation of WelcomeMenu on User talk:Xenomorphs went wrong somehow. The table is unclosed and absorbing posts below it. Please fix. I can't see what went wrong, or how to fix it. I fixed it, but still can't see why it was substd that way.-- Auric    talk  12:53, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * As you seem to have discovered yourself, the closing table code "|}" needs to be on a new line. Since it was not, all the subsequent text was treated as part of the table.  The template history shows that this error was never part of the template itself.  The error could only have been caused by the original poster of the welcome message, user:Harrybrowne1986, but I'm not sure how it happened either. SpinningSpark 14:12, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello .Spinning & Auric.
 * I checked. It was not me actually. Since I had just added the template. I believe it was the bot, which was applying the signature, that might have created the trouble. I just checked the history, and found the same. if you see this and this,the difference is not due to me. Also, I used a Twinkle to complete the welcoming for the user, but I believe that the trouble was either with the sign bot or the Twinkle itself. I have read somewhere the troubles users are facing with certain twinkles. I am not sure of this though, and I have not done any manual edits as well at the same place. Hope, I canassist if any requirements are there. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works 08:17, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I have indented your post per our talk page conventions. The diff clearly shows that sinebot did not cause the problem, although sinebot's edit got caught in it.  The error was already there right from your original edit.  There is also nothing wrong with Twinkle, I have tested it in sandbox, and I am not seeing any relevant bug fix around that time. Let's put this one down to a random glitch, but if it happens again please report it to the Twinkle people. SpinningSpark 08:58, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * . Thanks for the stated comment. I also noted this that although it looks like I have done the glitch while adding the comment of Welcoming, I am still not sure, if I used the Twinkle, how can it have this glitch, as I am sure I never wrote anything,just did the Twinkle, and as such there is no way I could have done any edit there. Still. Anyways, if I have any further troubles, I will surely get Twinkle team know of the same. Jai Jinendra.Vishal Bakhai - Works 09:15, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Micropolitan Statistical Area
My name is G. Scott Thomas. It has been brought to my attention that the listing on Micropolitan Statistical Areas includes a tag that says my creation of the term is "dubious." Documentation can easily be provided. I would like this cleared up, since I feel the "dubious" tag is an unfair aspersion.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.30.119 (talk) 14:37, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You can provide sources here, or on the article talk page. However, my inclination at the moment is that the passage should be removed from the article entirely.  Do you have a  response to the reason given in the dubious tag; "A book titled Micropolitan development: Theory and practice of greater-rural economic development Luther G. Tweeten was published in 1976. If the definition there is the same, Thomas didn't coin it first."? SpinningSpark 15:49, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * We need an independent source that looks your article and says that you created it; your article can be used to talk about the phenomenon, but for the usage of the term itself, it's a primary source, so we need a secondary source that examines the creation of the term long after the fact. Nyttend (talk) 17:57, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

User Rights under Clean Start
Say you create an alternate account under WP:CLEANSTART. You are an experienced user and you had multiple user rights on your old account. Would it be permitted, with verification by the old account, to receive these user rights with the new account? Additionally, could you receive confirmed status on that account? 72.83.246.25 (talk) 16:30, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You probably cannot get granted any permissions from a previous account that you had before, such as confirmed, rollback, or reviewer. That's the whole point of a clean start. Piguy101 (talk) 17:12, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Micropolitan Statistical Area
G. Scott Thomas again.

I was unaware of Luther Tweeten until I was told about this mini-controversy over micropolitan areas. I have since tracked down a copy of his 1976 book. He specifies on the very first page that “micropolitan” refers to the 31 percent of the nation’s residents who did not live in counties officially included in metropolitan areas.

Micropolitan, in Tweeten’s definition, is everything that is not metropolitan.

My 1989 article in American Demographics and my 1990 book, The Rating Guide to Life in America’s Small Cities, took a considerably different tack. I established a series of six ground rules for micropolitan area, required them, among other things to have a central city of at least 15,000 residents and a surrounding county of at least 40,000 residents.

My definition of micropolitan, therefore, is much different from Tweeten’s. My micropolitan areas were minature versions of metropolitan areas. It was this definition that was adopted (and tweaked) by the Office of Management and Budget when it formally created micropolitan areas a decade later. (And I, indeed, was contacted by a member of the task force that created the new micropolitan areas.)

Several news articles in 1989 followed up on my article about micropolitan areas. Here’s an example from the Deseret News in Salt Lake City: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/75290/LOGAN-A-MIGHTY-MICROPOLIS.html?pg=all

And another from the Chicago Tribune in that year: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-04-22/news/8904060973_1_micropolitan-areas-suburbs

And Kiplinger’s: http://books.google.com/books?id=qAMEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA30&d.... 

Academic organizations have long acknowledged my role in creating the term, such as the Southern Regional Science Association: http://journal.srsa.org/ojs/index.php/RRS/article/download/41.23.7/pdf‎

If you need more information, please let me know.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.30.119 (talk) 18:05, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I have copied the above to the talk page of the article, which is the best place for this discussion. Maproom (talk) 19:25, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

adding a reference
hi. it was requested that I add a reference to the page i created related to Duane Boutte. I have done so. Will the page be preserved and not deleted? thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Billystroud (talk • contribs) 18:27, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * 1. An IMDb listing is not a reliable source as we define it; most of the content is generated either by the subject or by users of the IMDb.
 * 2. An IMDb listing is not evidence of notability; lots of obscure people, including myself and my then-5-year-old daughter, have IMDb listings without being notable thereby (sorry, Kelly-chan). -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  18:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Lead Azide Story with Reagan's ass- attempt
The subject of lead azide lateraled to a quip, about Ronald Reagan (then president), being shot by bullets with lead azide and coated-aluminum - which is false. The testing for a-n-y adulterants (poisons) or devastating compounds was negative. The applied description by wiki is a lie - unsubstantiated - and should be removed/revised. Lead azide used as this trauma-enhancing tool would have made a softball-sized cavity within, shattering the two-lobed lung, pericardium & muscled chambers at-entry. Virginia jackrabbits were all-over-this, so do not distort, or allow distortion of this terrible event into a humpty-dumpty tale. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.130.184 (talk) 19:21, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * What? Nyttend (talk) 20:34, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Seems to be a problem at Lead(II) azide. Perhaps the IP should consider that Hinckley didn't hit Reagan directly, just a ricochet. No softball-sized cavity would be expected. Also, just because something is designed to explode, doesn't mean it does. Things fail all the time. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:36, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Or about Attempted_assassination_of_Ronald_Reagan. Maproom (talk) 22:17, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * In any case, it is sourced in both articles and the rant here has offered no sources to counter the article or support their own claims. Nothing to do here. <b style="background:#FAFAD2;color:#C08000">Spinning</b><b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 00:21, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Except (maybe) move the article about lead azide from its current and inexplicably hideous place. If there's a scientific reason for it, I won't eventually do it myself. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:34, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not inexplicable. The "II" shows the oxidation state of the lead atoms – compare Iron(II) oxide and Iron(III) oxide. But while Wikipedia has no article on Lead(IV) azide (I don't know if that substance has even been made), it could reasonably be renamed to Lead azide. Maproom (talk) 07:34, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The naming here is governed by WP:MOSCHEM. <b style="background:#FAFAD2;color:#C08000">Spinning</b><b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 09:05, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Lead(IV) Azide spontaneously decomposes, but shows up in a number of Chemical Hazards Handbooks apparently. May or may not be enough information for an article, but having lead azide redirect to Lead(II) azide seems about right.Naraht (talk) 21:33, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, not inexplicable. Just hideous. Fair enough. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:05, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Filter Page List
Hello,

I really enjoy using Wikipedia, but I've come across a problem that no page or user has really ever covered. It's about finding a list of pages in a certain wiki. To be more specific, I believe the MS Paint Adventures Wiki has ~823 pages on it. I can look at recent pages and edits in some places and search for certain pages in the search bar, but I can't get a list of all the pages in that wiki.

I saw there was a page that can't be edited, where all of the pages of Wikipedia were listed alphabetically, and I imagine the list grows everyday. I was wondering if I could filter that list to only show the ~823 pages of the MS Paint Adventures Wiki so I can print it or bookmark it if I'm expecting an update with more pages.

50.133.167.86 (talk) 19:55, 13 July 2014 (UTC)Chandzies


 * I'm not sure if I can help much, but MS Paint Adventures Wiki is not affiliated with Wikipedia. Piguy101 (talk) 20:03, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Special:Allpages is a core part of the MediaWiki software; if the MS Paint Adventures Wiki is running software similar to Wikipedia, go to its Special:Allpages page (type that into the URL, as that should be easiest) and you should get a list of all pages. Nyttend (talk) 20:36, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


 * A wiki is a type of website. There are thousands of independent wikis. Wikipedia just happens to be the best known. MS Paint Adventures Wiki is hosted by Wikia which is not affiliated with Wikipedia. http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Statistics shows "Content pages 823" as you say. "Content pages" is a link to http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Special:AllPages. There is no need for a filter. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2014 (UTC)