Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 March 15

= March 15 =

Referencing errors on Khmer Rouge
Reference help requested.

Hi, I don't know how to do what is being asked. I deleted an inaccurate and incorrectly sourced paragraph. Sorry if I did so incorrectly in terms of the tech side. Thanks.

Thanks, Clarity108 (talk) 00:37, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Short answer: Don't worry about it.
 * Mediumish -high level answer: it looks like the following series of events happened:
 * You saw potentially controversial content in the article that could not be verified by the source provided: BAD
 * You decided to fix it by removing it. GOOD
 * You didnt leave an edit summary to explain what/why you were doing. BAD
 * You went to the talk page and explained. GOOD
 * Your edit in the article had caused a technical error. BAD
 * The robot saw the error and fixed it. GOOD
 * The robot left you a message that confused you. BAD
 * Long technical answer. In paper writing, if you use a source for more than one footnote you can use the ibid notation and not write out all of the details each time you use that source.
 * In the Wikipedia markup, you can do a similar thing by using a "named reference" ( CITATION DETAILS/>), and then when you want to use the reference again, you can just use the name and it will link to the one with the same name and the full citation details. When you removed the content, you removed the CITATION DETAILS and so when the coding tried to find the ibid of what?, it couldn't, and that caused the technical error  which the robot fixed. For more information you can see Help:Referencing for beginners.
 * In the future to avoid getting the message from the robot, if you remove a "named reference" that contains the CITATION DETAILS, check within the article to see if the citation name is used again and replace the CITATION DETAILS behind the next place where the comes in the article.--  TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  02:38, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Shakespeare Template not displaying as a template in certain pages
Shakespeare's plays is not displaying as a template at William Shakespeare or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shakespeare when I add it as follows:. However, it is displaying as I want at Shakespearean comedy, Shakespearean history, Shakespearean tragedy and Shakespeare's plays.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:54, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Templates stop expanding when a limit is broken for pages in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. See Template limits. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:08, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Oddly the I think the issue is the template rather than the number of links in the page. I am able to put all the links on the William Shakespeare page without this template as groups of templates.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:04, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * When Shakespeare's plays is placed on William Shakespeare, the article breaks the limit and templates at the end stop expanding at the point where the limit for the article was broken. If you preview Shakespeare's plays at the start of the page then the template expands, but the limit for the whole article is still broken so templates near the end stop expanding. The limit is not about the total size of the rendered page but about the size of content being passed around between pages. If template A transcludes template B and C then it can be more expensive for an article to transclude A than to transclude B and C directly. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:25, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
 * And the problem is that Shakespeare's plays expands to 1.3MB all by itself. There is a very large amount of navigation available from with that hierarchy of navboxes, and navbox generates somewhat bulky code anyway.  With the current 2MB limit, a template of 1.3MB is unreasonably large.  Rwessel (talk) 04:40, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

help with links please
I'm trying to learn like everyone else new & using a subject I know about to learn, I have no personal attachment to the subjects. I'm just trying to make good of my edits that are being taken down. I have used the Talk pages & every user is negative or says the links are to spammy, or my edits are to promotional. The press coverage my subjects have is covered world wide in what they do & on very credible news sites around the world, but when I add these links my edits are taken down & Im told there to spammy? example HERE & HERE just to show a few. I feel the pages I'm editing are very key to page subject. I'm trying to walk before I run using a subject with great links but not covered on Wikipedia. The 2 subjects I'm learning on are: Graffiti Kings & artist Darren Cullen please help me somebody.Sarah1971 (talk) 02:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Also with regards to the text I'm adding to the pages & users saying its to promotional, well I'm only going by whats written in the links I'm using. Sarah1971 (talk) 02:49, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) we only use reliably published sources and most blogs dont meet our criteria for being used as a source. Instead look for newspapers or reliably published books or established national or international magazines a la Slate (magazine)
 * 2) of all the potential "A good example to look at" why exactly would we use "Graffiti Kings"? (note the spammy promotional good, but in addition, such tone is not encyclopedic, we do not address the reader.)
 * 3) your edits to Cullen include two completely unsourced paragraphs replete with the spammy promotional " the UKs first professional graffiti artists with a endorsement by the British Government. He is known as a veteran graffiti writer and consummate businessman" -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  03:11, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Blockedtext
MediaWiki:Blockedtext has spots for $1, $2, $6, and $7. Why no variables 3, 4, or 5? I don't feel like blocking myself to find out :-) Nyttend (talk) 03:19, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Because no one could make change... -- Jayron  32  03:25, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Without your edit summary, I would be completely clueless. Nyttend (talk) 03:31, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * They are all listed in the box "Block Message Variables" at the top of MediaWiki talk:Blockedtext. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:49, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Hm, thanks for telling me; I never even thought of looking there. Nyttend (talk) 09:12, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It hasn't been customized for British English (maybe it should) so the default MediaWiki message can be seen at MediaWiki:Blockedtext/en-gb. It doesn't use $4. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:52, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * British English is not the top language variant— it is Spanish. Followed by French, Brazilian Portuguese, Russian, German, Indonesian and Arabic. See Database reports/User preferences. --  Gadget850talk 21:17, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * en-gb is third in that list when I sort by users. But when we customize en-gb messages we usually just copy the already customized en message so there is very little work. Many users expect to see the same texts apart from details like spelling when they choose en-gb or en-ca instead of en. In reality, there are very few dialect-based differences and the main effect is that they lose a lot of customizations made for this wiki but only implemented for en. If the software allowed it, I think users with en-gb or en-ca should automatically see customized en messages when there is no customized en-gb or en-ca message. I'm tempted to add a note to MediaWiki:Preferences-summary/en-gb and MediaWiki:Preferences-summary/en-ca (displayed at top of Help:Preferences for those users) that their language choice is not recommended. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:16, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Ogden theatre Denver Colorado
My name is Douglas Kauffman and I own The Ogden Theatre outright since 1993. It was never sold to AEG. Thank you for correcting this misinformation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.147.88.30 (talk) 04:33, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * What is the name of the article you wish corrected, and please provide a reference in a reliable source giving the corrected information. We don't know who you are. Thanks. David Spector (talk) 21:19, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * See Ogden Theatre, which is located in Denver; its history section says that Kauffmann bought it in 1992 and that AEG bought it in 2005. However, http://www.ogdentheatre.com/about mentions AEG extensively, e.g. "Ogden Theatre is operated by AEG Live", so I can't imagine how "It was never sold to AEG" can be correct.  Nyttend (talk) 04:00, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Very easily, . I found a reference that NIPP leased the theatre to AEG, who now operate it, and edited the article accordingly. Thanks for pointing this out Douglas. --ColinFine (talk) 11:51, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Can we use a non-free image in this case?
I'd like to add a photo to our article on the poet Albert Saijo. Since he died in 2011, I understand we can make a claim of fair use to use a non-free image like this one, for example. However, on Commons there are a few pictures of him in 1943, aged 17 or so. Per WP:NFCI, "Non-free images that reasonably could be replaced by free content images are not suitable for Wikipedia." I'm not clear on how that applies in this case – is it reasonable to think a photo taken during the prime of his career, when he was best-known, and at a time to which the article devotes significant space, is replaceable by an image predating by some decades the part of his life on which our article focuses? – Arms &amp; Hearts (talk) 07:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Great question. I don't know the exact answer to that, but I would image yes, that sounds appropriate. The most relevant bit of policy I can think of at the moment is at WP:NFC:
 * "For some retired or disbanded groups, or retired individuals whose notability rests in large part on their earlier visual appearance, a new picture may not serve the same purpose as an image taken during their career, in which case the use would be acceptable."
 * While Saijo's career didn't rely on his visual appearance, the image used in any biography should ideally still display the subject at the peak of their career. The free images you linked to aren't a great representation of the subject and don't serve the same purpose a more recent picture would. That's just my two cents.
 * Hopefully someone else could provide any input, or knows where discussions about this have taken place before. ~Super Hamster  Talk Contribs 22:41, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I disagree-- if his appearance isn't notable, and there is an extant free image of him, then it seems like there lacks sufficient fair-use justification to use the non-free image. But this isn't the appropriate forum for policy question like that, take it to WP:VP. 00:18, 16 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:100:4759:4D52:6C43:4D9F:9EAB:5373 (talk)

Joseph Chamberlain
Hi there could you please check that my refs. are OK for the "Joseph Chamberlain" page cheers and thanks so much mike — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.181.69.75 (talk) 09:05, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The last ones you added looked okay to me, but i don't know for sure.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:30, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

How to make Template:Image requested show links to Wikipedian categories when more than one category is requested
As you can see in Talk:Colegio Alemán Alexander von Humboldt, Template:Image requested only links to the Wikipedian categories if one category of Wikipedians is specified. If more than one is specified, such as: Then none of the potential categories are linked. How do I make the template link both of them? WhisperToMe (talk) 10:28, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The template is only coded to link a Wikipedians category in the box if a single  parameter is given. I'm not sure it should even do that. Are editors actually contacting arbitrary Wikipedians in an area to ask for photos? The main purpose of the template is to place the talk page in categories like Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Mexico City and Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Mexico. That is done for all   parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:53, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I personally contact Wikipedians in arbitrary areas to take photos, since these places only exist in those areas (for instance, if I wanted someone to take photos of the German school in Mexico City, I would ask someone in Mexico City or its suburbs, and those categories help me locate Wikipedians who are in those areas). I don't know how many other people do that contacting, but it would be good to encourage such things. WhisperToMe (talk) 13:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Changes can be suggested at Template talk:Image requested. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:38, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

New Article Layout Issues
I am having trouble creating an article, my first one. I would like to follow the general layout to add headlines that are underlined and to have a table on the right with an image and text and a contents box similar to this page: Richard Blanco. I added text but am stuck with the actual design and adding the table and images.

Thanks Richard — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Every (talk • contribs) 11:49, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Level two headings are underlined, i.e. headings with two  on each side. Level three headings with   are for subsections. A table of contents is automatically added when there are more than three headings. See more at Help:Section. If you click Edit at Richard Blanco then you see code  . That means the infobox at the top right is made with Template:Infobox writer. That page has documentation but templates can be tricky for new users. You can only use the documented parameters. Pages can only display images which have been uploaded. See Help:Introduction to uploading images. Note that Template:Infobox writer has its own syntax for adding an image (which still has to be uploaded first). PrimeHunter (talk) 12:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Kenneth McGriff
I made corrections, in regards to Mr. Kenneth McGriff! He is not incarcerated in the state of West Virginia, or anywhere else. He is not a drug dealer, he did not committ any murders, and neither did his nephew, Gerald Prince Miller! Mr. KennethcGriff, was not born in Queens New York, on September 19, 1960! He was born in Harlem New York! He does not have a son named Charles, however he does have a son named Nikalas, who is referred as Lil Supreme! He has other children and he is married, as of October, 19, 2008, to a woman by the name of R. Nicole McGriff! He is a song writer, a movie producer, a business man, besides other, wonderful things, he has done, in his life! Why was the page, Niki McGriff deleted, it is based on facts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.54.200.76 (talk) 12:56, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Is it possible that there are two different Kenneth McGriffs who have vaguely similar lives? Also, just because an article is "based on facts" does not mean that the person is notable enough for an article.  When that happens, the article is deleted.  Dismas |(talk) 14:26, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that there are two different Kenneth McGriffs who have vaguely similar lives? Also, just because an article is "based on facts" does not mean that the person is notable enough for an article.  When that happens, the article is deleted.  Dismas |(talk) 14:26, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the sources pretty well establish that *a* Kenneth McGriff was convicted of murder. Certainly there are many people with duplicate names in the world, and Wikipedia can certainly accommodate multiple people of the same name (via disambiguation – WP:DAB – consider, for example John Smith), but that would first require that any other Kenneth McGriff be notable enough to justify a Wikipedia article.  Rwessel (talk) 07:04, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Problem with article after user changed name
Hello, recently a user begun to delete valid content of Dissipation and moved the article (changed scope) without prior discussing it. After realizing that the edits were bad, since a lot of content went missing i moved the page back. However the old history is now gone. Coudld someone look into this? Thanks. Prokaryotes (talk) 14:17, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * How did you move it? Did you copy and paste or use the moving process? - Purplewowies (talk) 14:44, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I copy/pasted it, i guess that was wrong (Oops). Prokaryotes (talk) 15:52, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * That isn't the correct procedure because it doesn't preserve the history. You should undo the creation of the redirect and request the move at WP:RM because you can't move it to a page that already exists with history. - Purplewowies (talk) 19:42, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Ok, thanks Purplewowies (talk). Prokaryotes (talk) 13:52, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

how to request creation of a new article ?
How to request creation of a page ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benteniso (talk • contribs) 14:25, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * See Requested articles. Though, last I checked, there was quite a backlog.  You may find it quicker to write the article yourself with the help of Articles for creation.  I'll be putting some links on your talk page that may help you out as well. Welcome to Wikipedia,  Dismas |(talk) 14:29, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

'Wireless car'
sir i want to made a wireless car, but i dont know how to do work. so plise give me some intruction to made k car?? † — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.180.171.151 (talk) 16:25, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a "how to" guide. You might try the reference desk to see if they know of any good how to sites on the web. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  16:37, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

British born actors actresses in the usa
You don't have me listed. Ruth barrie. I am listed in on other sites but not this one. Check imdb — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.38.132.35 (talk) 19:15, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Ruth, we don't have you there because you don't have a Wikipedia article. Samwalton9 (talk) 19:23, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * In looking over your IMDb credits, it doesn't appear that you satisfy our notability requirements. See WP:NACTOR. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:28, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Interview question
I am doing an article on a comic strip. I have found good sources, but would like clarification on some points. I would like to send an email asking the cartoonist some questions about these points, could I use the interview as a source? Is an interview an inappropriate source? Benheer2 (talk) 22:00, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Signed post— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:56, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * No, this is considered original research. An interview must be published (that is, made available to the public) before being used in Wikipedia.   Anon 126   (talk - contribs) 22:19, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * But you could do the interview and see if a reputable publisher is interested. If you can get the interview published you could use it as a source, provided you disclose your conflict of interest.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:35, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Infant Mattress Tests to Assess Adequate Safe Firmness
Dear editors: I would like to notify a Wikiproject about this old Afc submission, but there isn't one for "Safety" or "Child development". Can someone suggest an appropriate project? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 23:10, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Health and fitness, perhaps?  Anon 126   (talk - contribs) 00:13, 16 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank; I've done that. &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 12:00, 16 March 2014 (UTC)