Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 May 21

= May 21 =

Popups/nags
I realise that popups/nags are tremendously popular and effective, but just for argument's sake, if I wanted to remove the one that constantly whines about my lack of an account, how might I go about it?
 * See Village_pump_(technical) Dudel250 Chat PROD Log CSD Logs 04:24, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Why don't you register an account and avoid the nags? Registering an account has various advantages, such as concealing information about your location and ISP, and the ability to edit semi-protected pages.  Robert McClenon (talk) 15:39, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Why allow non-account editing and then constantly nag one about the very same?

Khartoum
Does Khartoum have a official website? If not, where dose the seal file:Krt logo.png come from？-- 淺藍雪 ❉ 05:53, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The corresponding file at the Arabic Wikipedia, ar:file:Khartoum logo.png, mentions a sudan.gov.sd URL. Unfortunately that's a dead link for me, so I can't verify it. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:04, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Try http://www.krt.gov.sd/. Not saying that's where the image came from, but it appears to be the official website and has the seal.  Spinning Spark  10:03, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I cannot access to this web, if anyone can make sure, please put it on the summary section of file:Krt logo.png as the source.-- 淺藍雪 ❉ 14:28, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No, can't do that. The website verifies that this is the shield of the city, but it is not the source of the image on Wikipedia which is what is needed on the file page.  Although it is heraldically the same, it differes in slight detail like the exact colour, detail dimensions etc.  Spinning  Spark  16:42, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The link listed in the Arabic site page you gave does seem to be in archive.org, but I don't see the logo there. It's not a perfect test, but I'd guess that was never actually the source.--Otus scops (talk) 19:38, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Bad grammar in Wikipedia
Why is the English so bad? In virtually every article there are mistakes in English. Especially in those that are written by non-native English speakers. I always tell my students not to trust the grammar in Wikipedia. In today's picture of the day for example you say that the Cathedral started construction. Is that the first example of self-build? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.227.170.111 (talk) 07:39, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The English is bad because it is written by real human beings, acting as unpaid volunteers! I have posted at Main Page/Errors about today's picture, so an admin may fix that. Any time you see a spelling or grammar error in an article, feel free to improve it. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:04, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, a new editor who knows about and cares about correct grammar will be very welcome here. Stick around, register too, and fix every bit of poor writing you see. (I hope you have plenty of time!) HiLo48 (talk) 08:51, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * See also Community portal. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:04, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * And WP:GUILD are always after new members. - X201 (talk) 09:05, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Please consider registering an account. If you register an account and complete the required number of edits to be auto-confirmed, you will be able to correct the grammar in semi-protected articles.  Registration has other advantages also.   Robert McClenon (talk) 15:00, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Which are explained here: WP:BENEFITS.--ukexpat (talk) 18:29, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

adding a graph
I want to put a graph into a Wikipedia article - it currently exists in an Excel spreadsheet. How do I do this? ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 13:06, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Copy the graph by right clicking on white space inside the graph canvas/box. Then open Paint. Press + to paste the image. Resize the paint canvas by pulling the little square at the lower right corner of the white space. to fit the graph. Save it. Upload it. -- Fauzan  ✆ talk  ✉ mail  13:25, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * You may find some useful advice at Convert tables and charts to wiki code or image files. --David Biddulph (talk) 13:27, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * David Biddulph, that link did not work for me.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  13:36, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It's c:Commons:Convert tables and charts to wiki code or image files. /~huesatlum/ 13:55, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  15:54, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Link rot
I have been trying to repair a broken link in a footnote in Bad Romance, #70 at the beginning of section 5.1. Reflinks has repaired it, but it has somehow knocked out the next footnote, and from looking at the wikicode in the text for both footnotes, I cannot see what has gone wrong, because it looks OK. The next footnote, at the end of the blocked quote, should be called #70 as well, as it cites the same source, but it is now numbered #71 and throws up an red error message. I did not even touch this footnote. What has gone wrong? I looked at the help page the red message directed me to, but still could not sort it out. .--P123cat1 (talk) 15:02, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It looks like AnomieBOT has repaired it automatically - or was that another problem? - Arjayay (talk) 15:06, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

No, there is a red error message in the text now and red error messages in the "References" list for two footnotes now, #71 and #72.. .--P123cat1 (talk) 15:23, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I see that it twice has  where it should have . But my attempts to correct this have not helped. Maproom (talk) 15:34, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Take it one edit at a time. In  you deleted the definition of the reference "MTV_News", but you are still trying to use it without it having been defined. Not surprising that you get an error message. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:13, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Looking at it further, I see that AnomieBOT rescued the orphaned ref in, but you promptly deleted the definition again in . You might be safest leaving references alone until you understand what you are doing. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:20, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * In fact was even worse, because not only did it delete the definition of the reference "MTV_News", but it left the ref tag unterminated so that the following text, including the definition of ref "vh1" was all ignored until you got to a ref termination tag.  I've put it back to the last working version. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:28, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * As there were definitely not any redlinks after AnomieBOT had repaired the reference, as can be seen in this version, I wonder what you were seeing. You may need to purge your cache more frequently, to be sure you are looking at the current version, not one stored by your browser. - Arjayay (talk) 16:36, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * @David Biddulph: Thank you for restoring the footnote.  Unfortunately it contained the broken link I was originally trying to repair, but I have straightened this out now, and all footnotes with the same citation are properly grouped. - P123cat1 (talk) 17:59, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * @Arjayay: Thanks for the tip about purging the cache.  I didn't see the version corrected by AnomieBot at all, so was obviously not working with the "current" version. - P123cat1 (talk) 18:09, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

new page
I created a draft in article wizard and now I can't find it. I have logged out and in since I started the draft. The page is called Ron King (Beauty)15:13, 21 May 2014 (UTC)DDlb5 (talk) 15:13, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Draft:Ron King (Beauty) (You should be able to find this by looking at the 'contributions' tab in the upper righthand corner.  It shows all your edits that haven't been deleted.) RJFJR (talk) 15:15, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

copyright issue re graph
I have prepared a graph for inclusion in an article. The graph is entirely my own work. The data for the graph comes from a book published in 1981 (the reprint date of the copy I have). The data is from the appendix of the book and copies a journal written in 1866 showing, amongst other things, the daily distance run by a tea clipper.

So I have extracted some figures from an 1866 journal that is printed in a 1981 book.

How do I sort out the copyright issues to upload this to the article. It seems to me that it has to be OK as it is no different than taking data from any other source and putting in the text of the article, but answering the copyright questions for the upload is a problem. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 16:12, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Data isn't copyrightable, but the form in which that data is presented can be. So as long as your graph isn't a direct copy of the graph in the book, it should be OK. You can use self to show yourself as the image's creator and whichever of the Creative Commons license options that you wish.--ukexpat (talk) 16:44, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

The use of acronyms is not helpng the reader if the person does not know what the acronym represents.
I am a true believer that acronyms are being abused to the point of not getting to the POINT. I just tried to look up what the letters represented for MSCI World Index and got nowhere even with using WIKIPEDIA. What do the letters MSCI represent? Also what do the letters OTRS rerepresent involving the Contact Team. As my life evolves up to the age of 60 years old texting seems to have started the use of acronyms to an extreme and now we should require a texting acronym dictionary to keep up. Acronyms has created a noway, nowin, nowhere, nogood, and nowise society. I wish writers would help us nonacronym nonfunctional savy readers with this ongoing problem. I hope I have humored the reader of this discussion. Lets get a Wikipedia acronym dictionary and a little better on the acronym usage. As you can tell I am somewhat anti-acronym. I beleive they create lazy writers. Signed, StevieD

P.S. what is "GFDL". I guess I'll have to click on the link to find out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.228.16.226 (talk) 17:26, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I think all the regulars here would agree that we tend to overuse acronyms. The Tea House was designed as a more user-friendly venue for new users and we try not to "over-acronym" there. To answer your questions, "OTRS" is the "Open-source Ticket Request System", which the volunteer response team uses to receive, manage and respond to e-mails. "GFDL" is the GNU Free Documentation License.--ukexpat (talk) 17:36, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Does the first paragraph under 'History' in MSCI answer your first question? AlexTiefling (talk) 17:41, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I see you already got an answer PDQ, but I will add mine ASAP. :-) Acronyms can be very useful, such as using SCUBA instead of writing out "self-contained underwater breathing apparatus" ever time it's mentioned in a diving article.  Either the abbreviation tool can be used to expand the term when you hover over it, or it can be made into a link which you can click on to get the full article.  However, that link option can cause a problem, if understanding each article requires you to follow links to several others, which in turn require several others, etc.


 * You can add the following tag:


 * for any article which overuses acronyms, as shown:


 * StuRat (talk) 17:42, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * The best practice in US Government documentation is that the first time that an acronym is used, the phrase should be spelled out with the acronym in parentheses, as in "GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL)", with an acronym list either at the beginning or the end of the document. The first practice is appropriate in Wikipedia.  I will check the Manual of Style (MOS) to see whether it specifies that practice.  Robert McClenon (talk) 21:28, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Using the phrase in full the first time and then using the abbreviation is exactly what the MOS specifies. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:12, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You asked for a Wikipedia acronym dictionary. Here it is Wikipedia abbreviations-- S Philbrick (Talk)  14:38, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You may also find WP:OMGWTFBBQ a satisfying read. It's about Wikipedia acronyms specifically but is good info nonetheless. - Purplewowies (talk) 19:54, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

What template to use with this sort of article
Hey community. I recently reverted another user's good-faith edits, and while poking through the user's edit history, I found this article in their userspace. It appears to be an ongoing project, and I would consider it a vio of WP:NOTWEBHOST. My plan was to talk to the user and then nominate the article for deletion via Miscellany for Deletion (CSD under U5 seemed inappropriate since they've edited other pages), but before doing that, I wanted to template the article with some obvious indication that it is not an article. I settled for Template:User page, but it doesn't have the visual impact that screams "This is not an article" Any suggestions for an alternative? Template:Userspace draft doesn't seem appropriate either, as the article should never be submitted to AfC. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:13, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You don't have to template anything. The procedure you described would work perfectly: Start a discussion with the user, ask them for an explanation, suggest they request deletion themselves using db-u1, if they do not, use MFD.  There's no need to tag it, per se.  You could also use db-u5 yourself, but that may be considered a rude gesture towards a productive editor, and taking a more deliberative approach may be better for all.  -- Jayron  32  18:18, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

How long to spam IP editors with account creation messages?
This message appears now for IP editors with each edit, a new feature appearing last few days.

"Join Wikipedia Create an account to edit and you can: Track your contributions Follow updates to your favorite pages Connect with other Wikipedia editors Get early access to new features"

A suggestion, is to kill your broken, bloated bureaucracy and bullying culture, maybe a better way to keep editors and to encourage account creation. Many editors deliberately use dynamic IP and should not continually be pestered to make accounts with each edit. 92.40.92.145 (talk) 18:49, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * You're indeed not the only one reporting this - in fact the WMF has already confirmed this is a bug that should hopefully be fixed soon. This thread suggests cleaning your cookies in the meantime, as this should prevent further messages until the bug itself is actually fixed.  Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs ) 18:53, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree that the frequency with which the nag appears is a bug. However, registering an account has several advantages, including the ability to edit semi-protected pages, the ability to participate meaningfully in AFD and RFC discussions (because closers often discount IP addresses because in those discussions they are sometimes sockpuppets), and the ability not to identify your geographic location and ISP.  Robert McClenon (talk) 21:24, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

"Purging"
Under my "Preferences", I have ticked and saved a request for a purge tab to be added "to the top of the page", but I cannot see it, even after freshly entering an article. Where do I look? It is not in the edit ribbon on the edit page either. I have read the Wiki help on purging and understand how it works and what it does, but it does not show how to actually execute a purge. What are the steps, please? - P123cat1 (talk) 21:45, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * One way to do it is to click "edit" for the page, then, in the url bar of your browser change "action=edit" into "action=purge" and then return. Saving a page with no changes made is another way of executing a purge.  Don't know about the purge tab gadget, I'll take a look.  Spinning  Spark  22:10, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

This is what I get in the URL bar when I am in edit mode for Nicki Minaj: "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nicki_Minaj&action=edit&section=14&editintro=Template:BLP_editintro". So you mean change the first "edit" to "purge" and then return, don't you? - P123cat1 (talk) 23:15, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You just need https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nicki_Minaj&action=purge. You can remove all the guff that comes after that.  Spinning Spark  23:28, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I enabled the gadget and it worked fine for me (in monobook). It adds a tab to the top of the page with an asterix in it.  If that is what is throwing you, you can instead add some javascript to User:P123cat1/common.js to create a tab.  Just tried this and it works;

addOnloadHook(function {  addPortletLink('p-cactions', 'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title='+wgPageName+'&action=purge', 'purge', 'ca-purge', 'Purge the page', , ); });
 * Hope that helps.  Spinning Spark  23:08, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. It won't show up using IE11, so I'll try it in Firefox, but can you just confirm that when adding that code to my .js page, I add it directly underneath the Reflinks code I have there already, or do I leave an empty line between the two codes? I presume you meant that once the code is added to the .js page, the tab will automatically show up at the top of the page. - P123cat1 (talk) 00:36, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't show up using Firefox either, so will stick to the other methods! Thanks for your help. - P123cat1 (talk) 08:15, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I have the option "Add a "Purge" tab to the top of the page..." ticked and am using Firefox 29. That gives me a "purge" link in the little menu accessed through the downwards-pointing triangle, underneath the standard "Move" command. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:22, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Clicking the UTC clock works in IE, and shows up on the status bar, to confirm that it is working. - To turn on:- Preferences > Gadgets> Appearance > Add a clock in the personal toolbar that displays the current time in UTC (which also provides a link to purge the current page). - Arjayay (talk) 09:29, 22 May 2014 (UTC)


 * It shouldn't matter whether you add it before or after reflinks, but you can try it the other way round if you like. If there is something javascript cannot interpret anywhere on the page, the whole page will not load.  You can test if this has happened by testing whether reflinks is still working.  What skin are you using? If you don't know then it is probably Vector.  You can find out by looking under preferences>appearance.  Spinning  Spark  10:26, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

@Arjayay: Thanks. Is the purge link the line that shows up under the UTC clock when you hover over it? If I then click on the clock, the screen blinks and whirrs as if the page was refreshing, so perhaps this is the purge. Is it? No words pop up to indicate that the line is the purge link. - P123cat1 (talk) 14:56, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Purge forces the server to rerender the page fetching again all the transclusions (templates, images, javascript, magic words etc). At the client end all you will see is the page reload.  Spinning  Spark  18:40, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No words pop up at the top, but if you look at the status line, at the very bottom of the screen, you get the proposed URL ending in "action=purge" as, when you click on it, does the address bar at the very top of the screen. So, if I click on my watchlist that line reads http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWatchlist&action=purge. However, testing this out, the purge function does not seem to work immediately after loading a page - I don't know if there is a built in delay, or whether it can recognize that there have been no changes to the target page. - Arjayay (talk) 07:17, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry, you did say clearly to begin with to look at the status bar; I usually have that bar turned off and was confusing it anyway with the URL address bar. It all comes clear now, except that the URL address bar does not change during the purging process whether it is clicked on or not, but I don't suppose that matters. Thanks for your help. - P123cat1 (talk) 13:08, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

@SpinningSpark: I understand what a purge is, but I don't know whether I executed one properly by clicking on the UTC. (Have left a note with Arjayay to get back to me on this.) If I can't make that method work, I will try the JavaScript thing again with IE, but not with Firefox, as I prefer to edit with IE where I can. BTW, I feel most of my queries are too basic for this Help Desk; is there another Help Desk for simple technical queries, re footnotes, reflinks, cleaning up dead links, bare URLs, etc, or this one, for example? I do try to read the Wiki help first, but while it is good at explaining things, it often does not say how to actually perform the functions described. - P123cat1 (talk) 20:20, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe the Technical Village Pump is what you are looking for.


 * By the way, the history of this page indicates that somehow while editing this section, you copied the entire Help Desk. Any idea how that happened? A couple of us have fixed that. I hope.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:24, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

The Technical Village Pump looks perfect, thanks. I'm very sorry about copying the entire Help Desk and causing a problem! It must have happened when revising my last message, but I wasn't aware of doing anything differently. - P123cat1 (talk) 22:01, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Revised Article for the London Welbeck Hospital
Dear Sirs

I'd like to amend the contents of what is written for The London Welbeck Hospital.

I do the Edit and after 2 or 3 minutes it changes to the previous article.

Can you please let me know how I can save the article, I'd like to go on and stay.

Kind regards

Nazi Ghanadian Director The London Wlebeck hospital — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nazighan44 (talk • contribs) 22:08, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Your contribution was reverted by another editor in this edit with the edit summary "not adhering to a neutral point of view". You should first read the policy that the editor linked in their edit summary and then discuss the matter on the article talk page.  Spinning  Spark  22:15, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I have just seen that this was your second attempt at inserting the material. The first one was reverted by an automatic process called Cluebot.  This was probably a mistake; I'll report it. It still remains the case that you should discuss changes on the article talk page, especially since you have a conflict of interest.  Our recommendation in such cases is that COI editors should always make requests on the talk page rather than edit the article directly.  Spinning  Spark  22:22, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Several observations:
 * It is not clear to me whether the article is meant to be about the premises in Welbeck Street, or about the businesses which have recently operated from those premises. The premises may be notable; the sequence of businesses is almost certainly not.
 * The edits made by Nazighan44 restricted the article to being about the business currently operating there. They provided no evidence of notability.
 * The edits made by Nazighan44 were blatantly promotional, and written in the first person. They were rightly reverted. (I don't know what Cluebot's reasoning was, but it made a good call.)
 * Nazighan44 appears to be the current manager of the business which she promoted in her edits.
 * Maproom (talk) 06:51, 22 May 2014 (UTC)