Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 October 24

= October 24 =

Stuck Over an Article
hi, i have been trying to create an article for offgamers.com.

We tried creatign a few times and the informataion was rejected and blocked. Although the last article which i tried to compose was nto at all closed to promotion or advertising but even then they blocked my account and refused to publish the content.

Let me know what can i do? below is the brief content which i have been trying to populate.


 * company_name    = OffGamers Group of Companies


 * foundation      = 30th June 2004
 * founder         = Ken Chee, Stanley Chee & Leonard Chee


 * location_Headquarters   = Singapore


 * location_Other Cities = Malaysia, China, Hong Kong, Great Britain and the United States


 * industry        = eCommerce


 * num_employees   =  98


 * company_slogan  = Your Gaming Alliance


 * url             = http://offgamers.com


 * website_type    = eCommerce


 * registration    = Free
 * current_status  = Active

“”OffGamers”” is an online MMORPG distribution platform which was formed in 2004 to provide a multitude of products, services and solutions to the gamers from all walks of life. The platform sells cd keys, game subscriptions top –up, game points, gift cards and console points to a diversified portfolio of customers spanning across Europe, U.S, Middle East and South East Asia. These customers can purchase their desired products and services via using different payment methods. The portal currently offers more than 200 payment options to select from, both locally and internationally.


 * History

The company started off from selling virtual goods via eBay in 2001, and since then has become an online gaming service provider, supporting more than 2,000 game titles and facilitating over 1 million users globally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mktogm (talk • contribs) 07:59, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello, . Not being an administrator, I cannot look at the deleted article, but I know that many Wikipedia editors regard even slightly promotional language as unacceptable. Your use of "we" suggests to me that you may be connected with offgamers.com: if you are, please read our guidelines on conflict of interest - it can be hard for somebody connected with a topic to evaluate whether language about it is promotional or not. But an example I see above is "to a diversified portfolio of customers spanning across Europe, U.S, Middle East and South East Asia". This is marketing speak for "to customers in Europe, US, the Middle East and Asia", or perhaps for "Customers across the world". "Diversified portfolio" is meaningless promotional blather.
 * Looking at the draft in your sandbox User:Mktogm/sandbox, I see some problems with referencing, and urge you to read referencing for beginners
 * First, the references are not properly formatted, which makes them difficult to evaluate.
 * Secondly, Wikipedia references are used to support specific statements in an article, not just "floating" at the end. (If they are formatted using  at the point where they are needed, the software will collect them and display them at the end of the article).
 * Thirdly, most of your references are of poor quality: the first few are all press releases from the company (and so are not independent); some of the later ones are blogs. Large numbers of poor quality references are bad for an article, not good. What we need (to establish notability in the first place, and then to make it a high quality article) is references to reliable published sources, independent of the subject, such as major newspapers, books from reputable publishers, or websites with a reputation for fact-checking. Press releases, blogs, wikis and forums are not acceptable. Ideally, every piece of information in an article should be referenced to a reliable source which supports that particular statement..
 * I hope this makes it clearer what you need to do. --ColinFine (talk) 11:20, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I have looked for the previous versions that were deleted. Offgamers (lowercase g) was deleted 3 times, with the most recent in 2007.  OffGamers (capital G) was deleted twice, with the most recent in 2010.  None of the creators,,  and , of any of those articles are currently or have ever been blocked.  It does not look like any version of offgamers.com (capital or lc g and c) has ever been created.  The two deleted using OffGamers are the only ones that had any content.  One was deleted after a discussion, Articles for deletion/OffGamers.  The other was deleted as advertising, WP:G11.  In my review of the last version, it was advertising.  Here is a sample paragraph from the article.
 * Not only that, but all of the customer service agents speak excellent English. It should be noted that it is near impossible to find a negative review anywhere online about their customer service. In fact, there are almost no negative reviews about OffGamers online in general. The few seemingly negative reviews we found, they had already responded to and resolved the situation. These are signs of a well organized company with a strong emphasis on customer service.
 * That is straight promotion of the business. GB fan 12:20, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

How to edit Title for Saved & unpublished article page
Hello Team

One of my article submission was declined and I got the issue...

Now I am editing the content of the article and wants to submit it. With content, I also wanted to edit the title of the article as due to editing the meaning of the title is no longer relevant..

Please guide me how to do this since there is no editing option for title on edit page

Help is appreciated in advance.

Priyanka Berry 10:05, 24 October 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by PriyankaBerry18 (talk • contribs)


 * Hello, . The answer to your question is that you MOVE the page to a different title, so in this case you would move it from Draft:HR Cube Version History to, I guess Draft:HR Cube. But though you have addressed the worst of the article, it is still nowhere near suitable. A good Wikipedia article consists entirely of a summary of what reliable sources, independent of the subject have written about the subject. If a reliable source, unconnected with the company, has written at length about the features of the software, or future enhancements, then it would be permissible to have some extended text summarising what this source says (though in most cases, it would still be unbalanced to include that in the article, in my opinion). But in the absence of such sources, your entire sections "Features" and "Future enhancements" do not belong in the article. (There might reasonably be one sentence about the features, if a source has written about them).
 * One more thing: I'm afraid I'm nominating all your images for deletion, as copyright violations. I quite believe that the screenshots are your own work, but they are of software that I'm sure will be copyrighted, so they are in themselves violations of that copyright. Sorry. --ColinFine (talk) 11:49, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks ColinFine
Hi Colin

Thank you for that descriptive explanation on my article.

I appreciate your concern and everything is acceptable from my side.

You were right about the originality of the work though.

Thanks again and will continue to contribute better articles in future

Priyanka Berry 11:58, 24 October 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by PriyankaBerry18 (talk • contribs)

Why was my article deleted?
I had posted a rather objective piece on a portal launched in India; called The Future Of Design.

www.tfod.in is a virtual platform for the art, architecture and design community to create Profiles and upload Images of their work. There are Articles and Discussions too, on issues related to the core focus of TFOD. There are Jobs for the fraternity - on jobs.tfod.in - where job seekers can post their resumes and employers can post their requirements. Companies, related to the fields of architecture and design, can upload their profiles and upload images of their Products.

I had provided information on the portal, its concept, creation and benefits it offers to the fraternity. I had not made any kind of sales pitch either, that should make it look like an advertisement. It was just a statement of facts; showcasing highlights of a newly launched portal. I have studied the wiki pages of Facebook and Linkedin and do not see any apparent difference in my submission and the info provided on these extremely popular social/professional networking sites.

I need your help in understanding why the post was not accepted/deleted. I need your guidance in how i should go about retrieving it and making it fit into the norms of Wikipedia!

Many Thanks!Roopasabnispinge (talk) 10:36, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Your user talk page explains that the reason why Draft:The Future of Design was deleted was that the draft had not been edited for more than 6 months. Your user talk page and the deletion log refer you to Requests for undeletion/G13. --David Biddulph (talk) 10:47, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello, . I did not see the deleted draft, so I cannot comment on its quality. But what I notice is that nothing in the information you have given above will do anything to establish that the platform is notable, in Wikipedia's special sense. A wikipedia article is required to consist almost entirely of summaries of information which has been published in reliable sources, independent of the subject. Such sources may exist (though if the portal is new, they may well not do, and so Wikipedia cannot - yet - have an article on it); but nothing in what you have said above indicates that they do. Facebook and LinkedIn are completely irrelevant (they are not even allowed as references, because there is no way of checking their veracity). This is an encyclopaedia, not a social networking site. --ColinFine (talk) 12:07, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * User talk:Roopasabnispinge has instructions on how to request undeletion, but I have undeleted it for you.
 * Yes check.svg Done - as an Articles for creation submission deleted under CSD G13, the page has been restored on request. Please edit the page to address the issues raised when it was declined, and re-submit it; "Articles for creation" is not for the indefinite hosting of material found to be unsuitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia.
 * PrimeHunter (talk) 12:44, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Paid editing
In Fred Mouawad, I believe I've stayed on the right side of the conflict of interest guidelines, replacing bad "references" with good ones and removing unsourced info. I've added a few uncontroversial details (well sourced) and the article seems pretty neutral to me. Now my client is asking if the COI notice can be removed. Obviously I can't do it. What's the procedure for that? Clarityfiend (talk) 10:37, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * You might want to follow the instructions at Suggestions for COI compliance. (In particular, the relevant template is request edit, although it looks a little backlogged at the moment so it might be a while before someone gets to it.) --ais523 10:47, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I went and took out the COI tag; the article looks neutral in its presentation, though it has some "like resume" problems and could likely be tagged with that instead. The article would need some expansion with scholarship about the subject which isn't merely a list of his jobs.  Personal life, assessments of his business practices, both positive and negative, etc.  would help a lot, if sources can be found (if sources on that information CANNOT be found anywhere, that would raise notability issues as well, since if all one can say about a person is their employment history, they probably aren't notable enough for a Wikipedia article...)  The article needs some real expansion, but it doesn't appear to me to be evident of having a COI, so I removed the tag.  -- Jayron  32  10:51, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That's about all I could find in the way of reliable sources, but I think it's enough to satisfy notability concerns. Forbes thinks well enough of him to interview him. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:11, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Weird question about extracting IPs from edit summary search
Hey there, I've been experiencing some recurring vandalism from Vietnam-based IPs and I was hoping to extract from my Vietnam edit summary search the various IPs at the request of an admin. I was wondering if anybody had any ideas for how to quickly extract this information since I don't particularly want to copy/paste by hand. Seems like something a RegEx could do, but I don't know how to implement something like that. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:37, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no idea about how to do what you want but I do have a labor saving suggestion if you were forced to do this by hand. Copy the entire content into a Word document then do 26 finds and replace, one for each letter of the alphabet, replacing each with nothing (i.e., leave the replace field empty). Then do a find and replace of double spaces with single spaces. This will get rid of everything but the punctuation and numbers and compact it. Then select all → format → bullets → none. You would end up with lines like: "03:55, 23 2014 ( | ) . . (-301) . .  ( 5 113.178.50.99 (113.178.50.99): . . . (|:))" and from there you could selectively highlight with alt/command (pc/mac) and delete the remaining unwanted text surrounding each IP address. Hopefully this will be mooted by some much quicker tech wizardry but I thought I'd throw it out there.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:23, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting approach, Fughettaboutit! Good suggestion!  I like a good low-tech solution.  I was able to solve my own problem.  I found a utility called Grep Online, which allowed me to enter a RegEx string for IP address scraping (\b\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\b) that I found here. And now I have my string of IPs! Much obliged for the suggestion. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:32, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Cool. I might actually use that site you found.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:43, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Though I've only written one regular expression for myself in the past, I did find this video and this corresponding utility very helpful. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:24, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Cannot edit a move-locked page
I am trying to add to the page Ebola virus disease in the United States that the NIH has declared Nina Pham free of Ebola, but when I click on "Save Page", it makes me type a captcha, and when I click again, I have to type another captcha, and after clicking again another captcha, and so on. What is happening? 2602:306:CEAC:8730:A150:1DF4:357F:5666 (talk) 15:49, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Never mind, I tried again and it finally worked. 2602:306:CEAC:8730:A150:1DF4:357F:5666 (talk) 15:51, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * In my experience, when you answer a captcha correctly, it acts as if you got it wrong, and gives you another one. But it has in fact accepted that you are human, without telling you. Maproom (talk) 18:52, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Changes to my wikipedia
Hello, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_McVeigh I keep making small changes to my entry (my username is SPENTELOW) such as that I am a co founder of Canongate and withdrawing the ES article (that I object to and don't want as the focus of my work as an artist). Can you please leave my changes? Everything I've said is true. I am a part owner and founder of Canongate and there are many listings for my Venice Projects Glass Stress and Hunting Song if you'd like to put them in.

Thank you!

Whitney SPentelow (talk) 18:47, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Firstly, the article is ours, not yours. Article subjects neither own a page nor have control over what goes into it - this is an encyclopaedia, not a webhosting service. Secondly, as the subject of the article, per our conflict of interest policy, you are advised not to edit articles concerning yourself at all under most circumstances. Instead, you should propose any changes - providing the necessary published sources - on the article talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:32, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

image help request
I need help updating the photo of my boss, Justin Rosenstein's, wiki page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hatebeets (talk • contribs) 19:03, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * If it's "free" (not bound by copyright as the photographer has released it under a Creative Commons license or the like), simply head over to commons:Special:UploadWizard and follow the instructions there. However, if the image is copyrighted, it cannot be used, as only free images are used to represent living people (Image use policy). If it still sounds a little complicated or you have any issues, feel free to just link to the image here and someone will be glad to help you get it onto the page. Scarce2 (talk) 19:52, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Just a note, User:Scarce2 linked to the wrong page. The page that explains why we can't use (non-freely) copyrighted images of living people is Non-free content (basically, you can't use a non-free image if there's a reasonable possibility that you can get a freely-licensed one, and with living people, there's typically a reasonable possibility of someone taking a photo of them for Wikipedia). --ais523 20:38, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * A little note; I see in your edit here you appear to want to use an image you simply found online. The vast majority of files you'll find online are copyrighted (as this one appears to be). I have found a free image on Flickr and have uploaded it. Scarce2 (talk) 20:06, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Change username?
Hello, Is there any way for me to change my username? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel the duck (talk • contribs) 21:26, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Daniel the duck, you can request a username change at Changing username/Simple. Hope that helps. Sam Walton (talk) 21:35, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Could someone please move a page?
The Beloit Janesville Symphony recently changed its name to the Rock River Philharmonic. (See reliable source in article.) Could someone please move the WP page to the appropriate name? I read through Help:How to move a page, but frankly, I lost my patience halfway through the wall of text there and never did figure out how to properly make this request. 32.218.41.50 (talk) 22:06, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, I've done that for you, and included a mention of the previous name in the lead. In future, should you need it, the page for requesting page moves is at Requested moves. Sam Walton (talk) 22:10, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * For uncontroversial moves, as this one clearly was, you can do it yourself using the "More" tab near the top of the article page. &#8209;&#8209; Mandruss  &#9742;  22:11, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Unless, as it seems in this case, you don't yet have an account. You can only move pages once your account has become autoconfirmed which occurs after 10 edits & 4 days of having an account. Sam Walton (talk) 22:12, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I see, thank you. &#8209;&#8209; Mandruss  &#9742;  22:13, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. As I said, reading Requested moves was not helpful. 32.218.41.50 (talk) 22:17, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * as an IP user, i dont think they could have made the move. isnt that one of the features limited to those who create an account? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  23:36, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Apparently so, according to Sam Walton above. &#8209;&#8209; Mandruss  &#9742;  23:41, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * That is one of several advantages to creating an account rather than editing from an IP address. Although unregistered editing is permitted, it is limited.  Since accounts can be pseudonymous, and since IP addresses sometimes change, there isn't really any valid reason not to create an account.  I suggest creating an account.  Robert McClenon (talk) 15:58, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
 * This response was not the least bit helpful. 32.218.35.12 (talk) 03:16, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe not, but you can't beat the price. &#8209;&#8209; Mandruss  &#9742;  03:54, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

In the course of a recent move
I lost my wikipedia computer folder which included all my notes etc regarding copyrights of pictures for the USA. Can anyone please point me to where I might find all the various copyright choices available? Thanks, Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I think I found it here File copyright tags/All Carptrash (talk) 22:41, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Paola Bacchetta
I am having great troubles with submitting an article on Professor Paola Bacchetta. I have attempted to created an article, now there times, and have been accused of copyright infringement when, in fact, all of the material posted has been supplied by the professor herself! I have sent both the professor and the photographer a statement supplied by Wikipedia for use as permission and am currently awaiting their return. JB, DRAGA design, Oakland, CA USA 23:31, 24 October 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barenose (talk • contribs)


 * Until the copyright has been released to Wikipedia, the material cannot remain on Wikipedia. Regardless of the copyright problem, material published elsewhere is often too promotional, not in the neutral point of view required for an encyclopedia.  Looking at your sandbox draft, and at your recreated draft, I see that they have no references to published reliable sources independent of the subject.  You have received plenty of advice on your user talk page, but obviously you haven't read it.  Please do so, because if you continue to create material contrary to Wikipedia's policies, you are liable to be blocked from editing. --David Biddulph (talk) 23:55, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * The article has already been deleted three times. Another risk of creating inadequately sourced biographies of living persons is that the title might be salted, that is, blocked from future creation.  I suggest creating a draft in draft space using the Article Wizard so as to get review before it is moved into article space.  Robert McClenon (talk) 16:17, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Book Creator issues
I recently sent some emails to the main Wikipedia address which now stand partially corrected by various editors, however, my primary problems have not been answered. The emails were too lengthy so allow me to summarize below, as clearly as I can: a) Under "Create a book", "Start Book Creator", "Show book" you arrive at the page "Manage your book". This page allows you to title and subtitle your book, download it, save it, or send it to a printer.  On the same page, lower right, is a box titled "Save and share your book" which includes an entry field titled "Choose a storage location for your book".  Directly below this command, on my Manage your book page are 2 little dots, one of which you must click on/choose or the "Save" button remains greyed out.  Question: What specifically do I type into the box labeled "Choose a storage location for your book"?  I tried a few different word combinations, which then activates the Save button and appends those words to User:Swamixyz on my user page.  Eventually, I discovered that each time I had saved it added another page name. You and others have helped delete the 6 unwanted page links from a total of 7. b)The book title and subtitle failed to appear anywhere on all 7 "saves". c) Is it possible to have only your book name follow User:Swamixyz without the prefix/Books? This is what I was originally trying to accomplish. OR Due to my lack of understanding of the Wiki hierarchy, am I constrained to saving books under User:Swamixyz/Books? I hope this clearly explains what I'm not understanding about saving and naming your book. Thanks much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swamixyz (talk • contribs) 23:33, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * "Title" and "Subtitle" are optional and will be displayed on the downloaded or printed book if you select them. They are not automatically added to the "subtitle" and "title" parameters of saved book in the wikisource of for example User:PrimeHunter/Books/Astronomy (I don't know whether this is a bug or limitation), but those fields only determine what you see in the box at top of the wiki page and not the downloaded or printed book. The latter is determined by the section headings in  later in the wikisource. Are you saying you filled out the fields before saving a book but the titles didn't appear when you downloaded the book afterwards, for example in PDF format? I had no problems in the test I saved at User:PrimeHunter/Books/Astronomy. title and subtitle can also be added or changed after saving but then you must save again to store the new choices. "storage location" is the Wikipedia pagename of a book saved by a Wikipedia user, for example User:Swamixyz/Books/Astronomy. It is mandatory to choose a storage location if you want to save your book so you can recover it at Wikipedia later and edit, download or print it. It is possible to download a book you have just made without saving it but you can only work on one book at a time without saving. You can save multiple books and work on each one later. The storage location is not displayed on a downloaded or printed book. Typically you enter the book title in the storage location field, e.g. "Exoplanets", but they are independent choices. Different books must have different storage locations but don't need to have different titles. The books you had deleted did have technically valid storage locations so they were saved at those pagenames, but they are not the type of pagenames you would usually choose for books. The buttons at "User:Swamixyz/Books/" and "Books:" indicate whether you consider it a personal book for your account or a book to be shared with other Wikipedia users. It can be viewed and edited by others in either case but if you choose "User:Swamixyz/Books/" then it's unlikely anyone else will edit it unless you ask them to. The "Manage your book" page can only save at these two types of locations. I don't know whether all the book features work if you manually move it to another type of location later, but you are not supposed to do it. Does that answer your questions? PrimeHunter (talk) 10:46, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

":"PrimeHunter, a SUPER thank you for helping clear up about 95% of my questions. Several users had just said "sorry, but I'm not that familiar with Book Creator". The Teahouse was going to be my next stop. Allow me to confirm that I'm understanding some things: 1) You stated ""Title" and "Subtitle" are optional and will be displayed on the downloaded or printed book if you select them."  Later you state: "...those fields only determine what you see in the box at top of the wiki page and not the downloaded or printed book."  Did you inadvertantly contradict yourself here?  I'm a bit confused.  You continue "They are not automatically added to the "subtitle" and "title" parameters of saved book in the wikisource of for example User:PrimeHunter/Books/Astronomy"  Does this mean I will never see the title on my user page; only on downloaded or printed books?  2) You continue "The latter (i.e. printed book)is determined by the section headings in   later in the wikisource.  Does this mean that the reason I never saw the title of a saved book on my user page is because I did not include == before and after the title when I named it? Still not totally clear on this title issue. Finally, to answer your question "Are you saying you filled out the fields before saving a book but the titles didn't appear when you downloaded the book afterwards, for example in PDF format?" No, I never titled a book without saving it. User:RHaworth deleted some of my erroneous pages and stated "I have restored User:Swamixyz/Books/Astronomy." This WAS the title of one of my "mistake" saves, however, the only link reflected on my user page is User:Swamixyz/Books. Wonder where her "restored" Astronomy link appears? So to conclude, I must allow the system to prefix my book link with User:Swamixyz/Books? My apologies for the long response but again thanks a bunch for your help. PS: I followed the info on the Indentation page. Why one colon did not indent my reply as the page indicates I have no idea. Sorry. Swamixyz (talk) 16:57, 25 October 2014 (UTC)


 * The indentation colon should be the first character in a line and not be in quotation marks. I'm afraid you have misunderstood a lot of my post. Try to reread it with the new post in mind.
 * There are two different independent properties of books which might be called the title of the book. One property, called "title" in my first post, can be entered in the field called "Title" at "Manage your book". I don't know whether you ever did that. If you didn't then it's the cause of a lot of confusion. The other property, called "storage location" at "Manage your book" but usually called pagename or just name in Wikipedia, is the place at Wikipedia where the book is saved. "title" will be on the front page if you print the book or download as PDF and then view the pdf file. "storage location" is similar to a filename. It is not displayed on the front page of a downloaded or printed book. The storage location of User:PrimeHunter/Books/Astronomy is "User:PrimeHunter/Books/Astronomy". The title of the book User:PrimeHunter/Books/Astronomy is "Exoplanets". It's displayed like a section heading lower on the page but will displayed on the front page if the book is printed or downloaded. Before saving I entered "Exoplanets" in the Title field, entered "Select articles" in the subtitle field, clicked the button at "User:PrimeHunter/Books", and entered "Astronomy" in the storage location field.
 * I did not contradict myself. There are two completely different ways to edit a book. One is with the Book creator tool you have probably used so far. The other is by clicking the "Edit" or "Edit source" tab on the book page, or clicking "Wikitext" to the right of "Edit this book". It may be difficult to understand this method if you are not a wiki editor, so I suggest you forget all about that method. That means you can ignore what my first post said about the "subtitle" and "title" parameters of saved book, and about the section headings in  in the wikisource. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:12, 25 October 2014 (UTC)