Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2015 September 7

= September 7 =

Family of Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge
Please help 1) I completely mucked up the ref number 75 2) I cannot put the accent over 'nee' in this same section - ie, Lady Body, (nee Marion Graham). Please help Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.36.6 (talk) 00:44, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You are all set on both problems. You missed the "url=" tag in the ref citation so the template got confused and errored.  As to the accent mark, right underneath the edit window is the character insert section.  Select Latin from the drop down menu and all the accented characters should show up.  --Stabila711 (talk) 01:01, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Or use nee --> .--ukexpat (talk) 13:21, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Sit Down, Shut Up (TV series)
Line number 6 - the show's name should be in italics (?) and there should be a capitals on all letters of the show. Please help — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.36.6 (talk)
 * I am not quite sure what you mean. The show title is already in italics and the first letter of each word is already capitalized.  Are you asking if it should be?  Yes, it should.  --Stabila711 (talk) 01:22, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I have made the change.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sit_Down,_Shut_Up_(TV_series)&diff=679830107&oldid=679539670] Click the "Edit" tab to edit the whole page including the lead. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:50, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Lupton family
What is wrong with ref. number 2 on this page? Thanks - I feel so stupid! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.36.6 (talk) 01:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * There was an extra 0 in the accessdate section. It read, accessdate=7 September 20015 which was causing the problem.  You're all set. --Stabila711 (talk) 01:31, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Referencing errors on Lonely Boy (The Black Keys song)
Reference help requested.

Here's the source for my addition to "Lonely Boy": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2691222/soundtrack

Any suggestions? I put it between the and the.

Thanks, — Preceding unsigned comment added by BellJohnT (talk • contribs) 01:28, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * There were extra tags on the end of the references that were causing the problem. I fixed the two that were having issues and fixed the section headers so they display correctly (they have to be on their own line).  You just have to move the refs to where you want them now. --Stabila711 (talk) 01:45, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The syntax-fix was correct, but IMDB is an anyone-can-edit website, so it isn't suitable for use between ref-tags (even ones with correct formatting). There are three basic problems with IMDB:
 * although owned by amazon.com, and there is some vague assertion of 'we try hard to have only correct info' , there is no list of editorial staff, and no legal repercussions for errors whatsoever
 * because anybody can edit, people connected to the film (castmembers or producers or similar) often edit the pages, and with the freemium IMDB 'pro' option, even pay amazon for imagefile-uploading-privs on IMDB
 * however, although *often* the only people editing the IMDB page are closely connected to the film itself, the website is anybody-can-edit, so the cast/director/producers/studio/etc are not the *only* ones editing.
 * In a nutshell, IMDB fails to have a reputation for editorial oversight and fact-checking accuracy, and also fails to be independent of the article-subject, thus fails WP:RS. For much the same reasons, since IMDB is not *solely* under the article-subject's control, it also fails WP:ABOUTSELF -- even the subject's facebook page qualifies for WP:ABOUTSELF in some cases, but IMDB is too much of a wiki-style website-anyone-can-edit, even for that low bar.  Ping User:BellJohnT, does this kinda make sense?
 * If you want to add information to the page, it needs to be backed up by magazine reviews, newspaper pieces, television newscasts, that sort of thing. IMDB sometimes has vastly more details than can be found in magazines/newspapers/television/etc type of WP:SOURCES, but that is because the members of the band, their talent agent, and their fans can all edit IMDB, which has relatively low selection-criteria, even compared to facebook.  For wikipedia, to pass WP:NOTEWORTHY, you need coverage in WP:SOURCES that are fully independent of the article-subject (not IMDB), and have a reputation for editorially-controlled fact-checked accuracy (again not IMDB).  That is what people on wikipedia mean when they talk about wiki-reliable sources being required.  75.108.94.227 (talk) 06:55, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * In short, see WP:RS/IMDB. Dismas |(talk) 07:57, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I knew there must be a shortcut somewheres, but couldn't find it for the life of me. Thanks.  :-)      That wikiproject-essay you mentioned, also points to a standalone-essay WP:CITEIMDB, which suggests that MPAA ratings and WGA-trademark-annotated writing credits listed in IMDB are proper things to cite from IMDB.  Of course, that exception doesn't apply to soundtracks (those are mentioned in the 'disputed uses' section aka the I-wish-these-could-be-used section of the standalone-essay).  Anyways, in this specific case, I left a hidden HTML comment that the sountrack-factoid was alleged at that URL, so as to keep the factoid around, in case somebody can find a better WP:SOURCE later on, but simultaneously keeps www.imdb.com from appearing in the references-section, where it doesn't belong.  75.108.94.227 (talk) 09:19, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, there are some things you can use it for. I'm fairly certain things like the cast list can only be added by those affiliated with the production of a film. I have a short IMDB entry and my credits were put in by the director of those films. (They were small independent projects) Dismas |(talk) 10:12, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Most cast lists ARE properly submitted. However, with one TV movie when it wasn't done, I was told to do it myself. I did it wrong and it was a complete mess, but I'm sure my sources were "reliable".— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  22:18, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Wikipage Help
Hello,

I am in dire need for your help to create a page for one of our actors here at William Morris Endeavorer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard.lee.jones (talk • contribs) 01:52, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * No. You are in dire need of understanding the purpose of Wikipedia. We aren't here to assist you in your efforts to promote actors. This is an encyclopaedia, not a free webhosting service. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:56, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, Richard. I recommend creating a draft for the actor in question and submitting it to articles for creation.  The articles for creation page also has a button that will take you to the creation wizard that you can use.  This will alleviate any possible issues with a conflict of interest.  Please be aware that all articles must be verifiable, with reliable sources, and be neutral.  In your specific case, I recommend also taking a look at the notability standards for actors that Wikipedia has set.  If the actor in question does not meet these standards then unfortunately it is unlikely that your draft will be accepted.  In addition, Wikipedia is not for promotional purposes.  If the actor is notable and the article meets Wikipedia standards they can have an article here.  If they are not and this is just for promotional purposes then I'm afraid it is unlikely you are going to attain your goal. --Stabila711 (talk) 02:01, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

AndyTheGrump (talk) :Ok I do not understand your purpose for writing me with your negativity. If this is an issue I will have our team call wikipedia themselves and inform their corporate office of what we need like we have done so in the past for all of our talents including the Kardashian Sisters and all of our other celebrities. You have no write to tell anyone what can and can not be posted on wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard.lee.jones (talk • contribs) 02:06, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

--Stabila711 (talk) Thank you I will check out this page and also contact wikipedia from our legal department to aid them in the creation of this page. I appreciate you for sending me over this link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard.lee.jones (talk • contribs) 02:10, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Please do not use legal threats to try to get your way. That is strictly forbidden by Wikipedia policies and any legal threats will result in a block from editing for the duration of the proceedings.  Wikipedia has guidelines, set by the community, regarding what content is appropriate for inclusion and what content is not.  Legal threats will not only result in your editing privileges being revoked but they will result in you not attaining your goal at all as the community decides what is appropriate not lawyers. --Stabila711 (talk) 02:14, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Frankly, given that Richard.lee.jones can't even get their name right, I very much doubt that he has any connection with William Morris Endeavor. An earlier article on Bari Suzuki, the individual being promoted, was deleted as a hoax, and I can find no substantive evidence to suggest that this is not still the case. It looks to me to be simple self-promotion. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:19, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * At this point their is no point in arguing with you people on this site. If it gets deleted then I will inform my senior and that will be the end of my efforts and for two Stabila711 (talk) I did not threaten anyone if you can read I responded with AID THEM IN THE CREATION OF THIS PAGE In no way did I say sue or slander the company. Most importantly their are a ton of celebrities on wikipedia outside of the content people need for research yet for some odd reason the original page was deleted due to the talents Japan based agency creating him an account without proper instructions on what they needed to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard.lee.jones (talk • contribs) 02:39, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not being aggressive to you here, but you should understand that you have a conflict of interest. Furthermore, Wikipedia is not for promoting celebrities. Wikipedia should not be used to create notability, but to house content that already has notability. The Average Wikipedian (talk) 08:46, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * If you contact the Foundation, your e-mail will end up with the volunteer response team from whom the response will be the same. --ukexpat (talk) 13:24, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Medical article referencing
I enjoy creating medical articles and using MEDR sources when these sources are available. Unfortunately, there are many conditions, diseases or other topics that I want to write about that are not covered in review articles published within the last five years. In some cases my contributions are deleted or reverted because the references don't meet the guidelines of MEDRs. There are medical topics and conditions which should have articles that can only be written with other, reliable secondary sources, but don't fall within the five-year limit. These would be conditions or diseases that have not been widely researched, widely published and illustrate consensus between the sources - but if the source is from 2009 or earlier, it is considered an unreliable source. I've read every essay that I can find on the topic and every WP guideline. I have over 15,000 edits and this issue is still limiting my article creations. One factor about referencing of medical articles is that if you examine most of the ones that already exist, the references of these older articles don't even come close to meeting the current referencing guidelines. The majority of medical articles are out-of-date or use primary references quite freely. I'm not asking 'permission' to use primary sources, but if there is not an article on a topic and if there has not been a lot of research on the topic, primary sources are sometimes the only sources available. Comments? Best Regards,
 *  Bfpage &#124;leave a message 03:31, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I think you might do better to ask the question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine, rather than here. AndyTheGrump (talk)
 * Thank you, but I also don't get much of a response there. I appreciate the time you put in here at the help desk. Best Regards,
 *  Bfpage &#124;leave a message 20:57, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Help on new article
I would like to know where I can attract help for a new article I have no idea how to get it past the drafting process any help or edits would be most aporeciated : Draft:The United Videogame Raffle Federation — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.91.187 (talk) 07:01, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I see User:Jenks24 has submitted it for review, but it will undoubtedly be refused, as you have cited no references whatsoever, let alone shown that it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.  Please see the very basic inclusion criteria, which all articles must have, and Referencing for beginners for how to include those references in the article - Arjayay (talk) 08:42, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Arjayay, if the review tag should be removed please go for it. I'm not overly familiar with the draft/AfC process, my main intention was just to remove the requested move tag as it clearly wasn't ready for article space yet. Jenks24 (talk) 08:47, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I have returned it to Draft:The United Videogame Raffle Federation so the references can be added, and to avoid wasting reviewers time - Arjayay (talk) 08:57, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I've put the AfC template back up, since it contains some helpful hints on 'improving your draft', but left it in unsubmitted form. Once some WP:SOURCES are added, 66.87 can click the submit-button on the template to get a reviewer's attention.  75.108.94.227 (talk) 06:36, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Help:Cite errors/Cite error ref no input
hello,

i wanted to clarify that the spirit name in the film jadu tona was not hiralal as mentioned. it was pannalal. However i am unfamiliar with the procedure to convey it on the site. thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.112.3.78 (talk) 07:20, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Ideally, someone would check this in one of the references in the Jadu Tona article, then make the correction. But the article has no references. Maproom (talk) 08:25, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * And while looking for references, I found that almost the entire article was a copy of this IMDB page, in violation of copyright law and of Wikipedia policy. I was therefore obliged to delete it. Incidentally, the IMDB source gives the spirit's name as "hiralal". Maproom (talk) 08:38, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

olly olly oxen free
i wanted to add to the article that in french: allez allez aux hommes (free) is go go men (free). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgmcs (talk • contribs) 14:48, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The requirement for an article is that reliably published sources have specifically covered the subject in detail and that we don't already have an article that covers the same topic. I think that the second aspect would be in effect. but, feel free to improve the article that we already have Olly olly oxen free, it is not in very good shape and can use some TLC. --  TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  15:47, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I think I misunderstood your question.
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a translation service - so simply adding "In French, the phrase is XXXX" is not appropriate. If you have a reliably published source that discusses how the French phrase has been influenced by or influenced the English phrase, then that type of content can be added. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  16:13, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

New pages patrol/Noticeboard unarchivable
I was poking around and noticed that page. I also noticed it's not archived. As far as I can tell it's because it's all level three headers. How best should this be resolved? Jerod Lycett (talk) 15:02, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether level three sections can be archived but the archive bot hasn't run since the archive code was added today so I would wait and see. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:34, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Seems not. Is it something that should just be ignored or something that should be fixed? Jerod Lycett (talk) 00:08, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The page has very low activity so it can just be archived manually at long intervals. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:16, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Need to post some GFortran code, perhaps a 100 lines and a few png files in Computer Desk
Would it be a problem? If not, then how can I post png files.

Thanks, --AboutFace 22 (talk) 16:04, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Code is generally covered by copyright and so there are many potential issues with that depending upon exactly what you are talking about. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  16:14, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

That's my own code. I've written every line of it. I am going to take care of the copyright. You answer my question: how to post png files. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 20:00, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by "post". You can upload png files (and text files) to Wikimedia Commons by going to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page, clicking "upload", and filling in the form as appropriate. If you have created them yourself that won't be a problem for Commons. But you will need to specify a license which allows anyone to use them. Once they're uploaded to Commons, you can use them at the Computer Desk. Maproom (talk) 20:14, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

I created those png files myself also. The files are not something I should worry about. Nobody will be interested in using them. It is something I've run into doing Fourier Transform. The result of the inverse of the Fourier Transform is not what I expected. I want someone to take a look and perhaps to run this code on their machine. I know there is one fellow at the Computer Desk who does GFortran. Perhaps I miss something very elementary that causes the distortion. I need help. To specify a license to use those picture will be ridiculous. Again, I need to post it in the Computer Desk. There will be two formulas posted also but they have been known for centuries. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 21:27, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * User:AboutFace 22, if you don't want to mess with licensing, and are just trying to ask a question about your code, then the easiest way is this:
 * upload the PNG files to your own world-visible website
 * upload the GFortran code to the same
 * ask your question at the Computer Desk, and leave the external URL of your (just-uploaded) code-and-images
 * note that, if you do not already have your own world-visible website, you can pick one of these no-cost online services: List of free web hosting services
 * Does that make sense? Uploading imagefiles to talkpages like the Computer Desk, is not very easy.  You basically have to go through the pain of doing the proper licensing, and fiddling with unrelated stuff.  Since you are the copyright-holder, it is POSSIBLE for you to go through the hoops at wikipedia-and-wikipediaCommons, but the EASY way is to just upload externally, since it sounds like you are asking a question about the code (on wikipedia), rather than making a direct contribution of the code (to wikipedia).  If this doesn't answer your question, or is not what you are trying to accomplish, please give us some more details about your goals.  75.108.94.227 (talk) 00:52, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

To the last contributor: Thanks, I am not contributing to Wikipedia, I am asking a question. Your post answers my question entirely. Yes, I want to ask a question about my code and the question is why it behaves this way or why it gives the unexpected result. The code is very simple and transparent. The code execution results in a gnuplot graph and I want to ask questions why the result is not want could be expected. There is no need to license anything. Thanks, --AboutFace 22 (talk) 16:20, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

User page issue
On my user page User:Penbat I use Template:Userbox as blank fillers in some places but even when no text is wanted it now spews out although a while back this didnt happen. How can i just get blank space ?--Penbat (talk) 18:14, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * If you add a  to each info line it will display empty space.  So the line should read | info     =  --Stabila711 (talk) 18:20, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thx that works a treat.--Penbat (talk) 18:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

M.W. Robinson Department Store of New York City, NY
I cannot find any information on the above mentioned department store, who bought them out? who might have the sales records relating to weapon purchases back in 1868? 108.71.32.177 (talk) 19:59, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You might be more likely to get an answer at the Miscellaneous Reference Desk. This page is for questions about how to edit Wikipedia, not for general knowledge questions.  However, if you are really asking about weapons purchases in 1868 (and not 1968), it is likely that there might not be any records.  Robert McClenon (talk) 20:38, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Depends on the purchaser -- if they were a wholesaler to the military (or even to the NYPD maybe), for instance, records almost certainly exist of those bulk purchases, in some governmental paperwork somewhere. Maybe ask a question at WP:MILHIST ('discussion' page or directly ask one of the wiki-project-members), if this is the kind of info you are seeking.  But yes, individual retail sales of firearms, one by one over the counter to retail customers, would almost certainly not be published anywheres ... and I would be surprised if such records even existed privately, in the warehouses of the former corporate entity.  But for large purchases by governmental or police bodies, records might exist.  There is mention of the "M.W. Robinson Mfg. Co., Inc" in this NYC govt site, http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/reports/tsouthext.pdf, circa 1950s.  Generic search for "M.W. Robinson" and gun and New York turns up a lot of civil-war-related hits, though maybe spurious.  75.108.94.227 (talk) 01:05, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Randy Thornhorn
I submitted a draft, which was rejected. I have re-written it (see below) with the citations needed. How do I re-submit it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lyn Dunsavage Young (talk • contribs)

Randy Thornhorn

Biography (August 27, 1957 - present)

Body of Work

Randy Thornhorn (a.k.a Randy Thornton) is an author of short stories and novels, which includes The Kestrel Waters and its prequel Wicked Temper. Wicked Temper is also a segment of a larger anthology or "novel in stories" entitled Wicked Temper Creation.

Wicked Temper Creation and many of Thornhorn's other tales depict the characters and events in a mythical lost mountain region in the South, known as "Riddle Top." It is a place where "time is a funny thing" [1] and is infused with Old World Celtic, Germanic, and ancient pagan influences amidst the primitive fundamentalist Christian practices, all of which are heavily depicted.

It is a region Mr. Thornhorn has been known to say he “visits often and sometimes stays the night.” Other nights, he claims, “he might be found on a wooded hilltop somewhere east of Montgomery in the land of Alabama.” [2]

Recognition

His short story, The Hole and Dobber's Head was the longest fiction ever published in Oxford American, when the story debuted in the magazine’s special Southern Gothic Issue (October/November 1996). In the same issue, the editors proclaimed Randy Thornton (a.k.a. Thornhorn) to be “One of the South’s wildest new voices.” [3]

Oxford American initiated a Listopia list on the massive Goodreads’ literary site under the heading “Oxford American ”Best Southern Novels of All Time.” As of August 2015, both Thornhorn novels The Kestrel Waters and its prequel Wicked Temper had risen to the Top Twenty. [4] Also, on the Goodreads' lists of “Best Southern Gothic Literature,” Kestrel Waters and Wicked Temper have been voted into the Top Ten, voted into fourth place and eighth place respectively (as of September 2015). [5]

The Kestrel Waters was a November 2014 Book-Of-Month pick by the largest online Southern book club, On The Southern Literary Trail (Goodreads), where it received positive reviews from the 995-member group at that time.

Categorization of Work and Style

Thornhorn's writings, including his many stories of love and romantic loss, are generally regarded as Southern Gothic in nature. The Kirkus Review of his first novel, Wicked Temper stated: (Thornhorn’s) blend of Southern gothic and hillbilly noir (makes) this story. . . utterly readable, in large part because of Thornhorn’s masterful use of dialect, rich description, and immersive use of atmospherics. The power of this story undeniably comes from the author’s darkly lyrical voice, and his sinister reimagining of Appalachia virtually comes alive on the page: ‘One tiny shack gave way to the next, each shack with its small barren field, desolate dead cornrows littered by blackbirds and autumn leaf.’ (7)

The Kestrel Waters was reviewed as “Mellifluous, lyrical ... with a darkness that creeps like kudzu.”

Thornhorn’s style was described by a reviewer “Like the lovechild of William Faulkner and H.P. Lovecraft, Thornhorn, with his unique narrative style and twisted insight into Southern life, makes this novel unforgettable.” (9)

William Peter Blatty, author of The Exorcist, was one of the first of several contemporary authors who endorsed Thornhorn’s writing, stating “I've come to believe that it is I who should be asking [Randy Thornhorn] for quotes. . . I was haunted throughout by a sense of mystery and otherness. This book is a mesmerizing, wonderfully written and extraordinary work of the imagination. . . Thornhorn, where the hell have you been?(10)

Bibliography

Novels: Wicked Temper (ISBN-13: 978-0991649679) The Kestrel Waters (A Tale of Love and Devil) (ISBN-13: 978-0991649648) The Axman’s Shift (ISBN-13: 978-0991649662) Wicked Temper Creation (ISBN-13: 978-0-9916496-9-3) Story Collections: Howls Of A Hellhound Electric: Riddle Top Magpies & Bobnot Boogies & A Ragged Love Story or Two (ISBN-13: 978-0-9916496-8-6) References [1] Oxford America, “Is the South Still Gothic?” Issue, Oct/Nov 1996. “The Hole and Dobber’s Head, A Strange Fable by one of the South’s wildest new voices.” [2] Randy Thornhorn reading and book signing for The Kestrel Waters at The Gnu’s Room Bookstore, Opelika, Alabama, April 12, 2013. [3]Oxford American, “Is the South Still Gothic?” Issue, Oct./Nov. 1996. [4] www.Goodreads.com/list/show/31448.Oxford_American_the_Best-Southern_Novels_of-all_time Listopia’s “Best Southern Novels of All Time,”  August, 2015. [5] www/goodreads.com/lists “Best Southern Gothic” September 2015. [6] https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2003046-accepting-nominations-for-november-2014-group-reads. [7] https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/randy-thornhorn/wicked-temper/, Sept. 1, 2015. [8] https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/randy-thornhorn/the-kestrel-waters, April 2014. [9] https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/randy-thornhorn/wicked-temper/[10], Sept. 1, 2015. (10) Printed on the book The Kestrel Waters, with permission from William Peter Blatty. 20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)20:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)Lyn Dunsavage Young (talk)


 * Make the changes in Draft:Randy Thornhorn. I moved the draft to that location as you were advised.  Follow the submission procedure again.  The procedure for submitting draft articles is mostly relatively self-explanatory.  The hard part is complying with Wikipedia guidelines and policy and reviewer comments, not the procedure of how to submit it again.  Robert McClenon (talk) 20:31, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * However, you may get comments to the effect that the article is overly promotional, or that it presents fiction as fact or that parts of it are written "in-universe". Robert McClenon (talk) 20:35, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Here is such a comment. The phrase "is known to have" provokes the reaction, "by whom? Where's the evidence?". If there is evidence, supply it, as a reference. If there isn't, delete the claim from the draft. Maproom (talk) 21:04, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The previous feedback and comments gave a number of useful links, including to Referencing for beginners, Citing sources, and WP:Manual of Style. I see that the draft has been resubmitted by an IP editor without any of these aspects having been addressed.  Reviewers tend to be annoyed at having their time wasted by resubmissions which don't address previous feedback and comments.  There is additional confusion that the draft submitted yesterday evening seems to include duplication, new material having been added without removing the corresponding old material or without making it clear which is intended to be the current version.  I would recommend that you tidy it up. - David Biddulph (talk) 06:49, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I have declined the article again. It appears that the OP (editing logged out) added the revised draft of the article to the article rather than replacing the declined text with the draft text.  As I said above, the procedures for submitting draft articles are not that complicated.  If you don't know how to replace the declined text with the revised draft text, play The Wikipedia Adventure or ask for a mentor.  In this case, I suggest that the original poster ask for a mentor.  Robert McClenon (talk) 14:11, 8 September 2015 (UTC)