Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2016 April 19

= April 19 =

How to
I would like to create a page for Tribunal Law Enforcement Motorcycle club. How do I do this? The "companies and Organizations" section asks me questions relevant to companies not organizations.

Marc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marc Casella (talk • contribs) 02:34, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * , I can see how a new editor might not be able to see how WP:CORP fits for a motorcycle club. So, have a look at the more general guideline and see if the club sizes up to that. Dismas |(talk) 03:17, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Hello, . I would urge you, before you plunge into one of the most difficult activities there is on Wikipedia - creating a new article - to spend some time improving existing articles, to get the feel of how Wikipedia works. Also, it may smooth things if you don't think of it as "a page for" the club, but "an article about" the club. --ColinFine (talk) 10:25, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Properly reference an entry substitution
I'm looking at 2016 World Figure Skating Championships. How do you properly reference a substitution? The only source is an entry page, which was archived multiple times.

The Chinese pair Yu/Jin were switched with Peng/Zhang on March 26. The current reference gives the current page that says Peng/Zhang competed. That ref also has an archived link, dated March 8, shows that Yu/Jin were suppose to compete. Neither links give date March 26 (which we list in the Wikipedia article).

To know the switch was announced March 26, you need two other archived links: (1), (2). Both archived on March 26, first one showing Yu/Jin were suppose to compete, the second showing the switch (but without the first link, you wouldn't know the switch happened).

So how is the proper way to reference that? Do we (even though it doesn't give date for substitution that we're listing and you have to know to follow both links within the single ref). Or do we add multiple references links to the entry page with different archived times?

I'm probably making this out more complex than it is. I just want to make sure it's sourced properly. Thank you, 15zulu (talk) 04:48, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi 15zulu, looks to me as if you would be doing a bit of "original research" if you proceeded like that. No, you need a reference to an announcement of a substitution on 26 March, and if such a reference cannot be found, I think you have to leave the "Date" entry blank and explain under "Notes" that the new names appeared on that date, adding your refs there Noyster (talk),  09:28, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Given I didn't add any of this information, I'm not putting any "original research". What I did is look at a and think the sourcing wasn't sufficient since the link didn't even mention Yu/Jin. March 26 is when ISU released the change. Plenty of entry changes in figure skating competitions are only "announced" by entry list changes. It's pretty standard all over Wikipedia figure skating competitions' articles to use date of entry list change as announced date. If you want to change that (to leaving the date field blank), you'll be facing an uphill battle against all the other editors on those pages. Regardless, your answer doesn't respond to my question on which ref(s) to use. So, I guess I'll just leave it alone. Thank you, 15zulu (talk) 10:00, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Problem with signing
When I sign with the four tildes my username does not show up. Could you please help fix this?05:41, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I think you are typing five tildes instead of four. Five tildes generate only a timestamp (three tildes create a signature without a timestamp). Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:13, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It could also be that you have broken your signature at Special:Preferences. Uncheck the box labeled Treat the above as wiki markup and click save, then try again. — crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 07:23, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Broken links to sections
Is there a method to automatically fix broken/outdated links to sections? Or to trace them, so that editors can be warned in case of section removal or header change? Or at least to list them from time to time so that they can be manually checked and fixed?

Example: in Military history of the Warsaw Uprising a section title The "W-hour" was changed to W-hour 10 years ago, on 18 April 2006, however a link to the section in Powstanie Warszawskie (album) has not been fixed until now.

CiaPan (talk) 08:21, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Redirects that point to broken section links can be found at Database reports/Broken section anchors. As to links within articles, implies that there is no way to find them (at least built in), which is the reason for redirects pointing to sections. Someone may have built a semiautomated tool to help with finding dead section links, but I don't know of one. —  crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 09:49, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Can't save edits from the default editor?
I can't save changes made in the default editor. When I click the "Save page" button it just reloads the edit page with a message to sign in (I have not tried signing in, this should be unnecessary). My IP does not appear to be blocked, and if I use the visual editor my changes save correctly. I'm using Chrome on Windows 7.

What's the deal with this? This seems like it should be a really obvious problem, but i can't find any reports or solutions from a search. I'm posting this from my phone (extremely annoying) because the visual editor is not available for this page. This is also not a new problem, it's affected me for several months at least, but I've just now gotten frustrated enough to ask about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.71.20 (talk) 11:54, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Have you tried in a different browser other than Chrome? That would let you know if it's a browser specific issue or more widespread. If it is just Chrome, I would suggest clearing the cache and cookies, then trying your edits again. Dismas |(talk) 12:53, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Editing in IE11 works (what I'm doing right now). I cleared cookies and cache for Wikipedia on Chrome and it still did not work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.71.20 (talk) 19:22, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Then I suggest taking your question to WP:VPT. Dismas |(talk) 00:21, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

salmaan taseer
My father Salmaan Taseer has passed away. His page says his former spouse was Taveleen Singh. this is untrue. She was never married to him. His former spouse was Yasmin Saigol. Please verify and correct. Sara Taseer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.182.100.136 (talk) 15:58, 19 April 2016 (UTC) Simiilarly, our article on Tavleen Singh states "Tavleen has a son named Aatish Taseer with late Pakistani politician Salman Taseer with whom she had an affair." It appears, therefore, that our articles are already correct and that there is nothing to change. - Arjayay (talk) 16:58, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Our article on Salmaan Taseer states "Taseer married Aamna Taseer", furthermore, our article does NOT state that Tavleen Singh was his spouse, but that he had an affair with her, while she was married to someone else.
 * Yes,, but it does list Tavleen Singh under "spouses" in the infobox, as the IP user says. IP user, the best place to bring up questions and inconsistencies in a particular article is on the article's talk page, in this case Talk:Salmaan Taseer. --ColinFine (talk) 17:47, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I have removed Tavleen Singh from the spouses field of the infobox, as I can find no reason to believe that they were married, and numerous sources that indicate they weren't. Maproom (talk) 20:21, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Double check on plagiarism and copyright question
I've recently written up a draft User:Jo-Jo Eumerus/El Toro volcanic field that is sourced (so far) only to doi:10.5027/andgeoV41n1-a06. While I didn't write a word-by-word translation the translation is close enough that it could raise some close paraphrasing/plagiarism concerns. Thus I've added an attribution text at the bottom of the draft but I want to be sure that this is the right way of handling plagiarism issues - according to WP:COMPLIC the source text is compatible with Wikipedia's licenses copyright-wise so the paraphrasing should not be a copyright issue.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:43, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Help:Cite errors/Cite error included ref
I tried editing a section of the entry on " Mount Union, PA"...under HISTORY....I added "an explosives plant"...I tried to cite a website as the source, and have now run into a tagging problem, for the header of "HISTORY", I think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.118.153.82 (talk) 17:04, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I've fixed the errors on the page. If you could try and add your source again, that would be helpful.  You only need 1 set of around your citation.  This page may help you Referencing for Beginners.  CaptRik (talk) 17:45, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Peer review an article
I am trying to get Let's Get Married (TV series) peer reviewed. How long does that take to get an article peer reviewed? Is there anyone that I can ask to peer eview the article? Thank you. Moscowamerican (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:57, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * All Wikipedia editors are volunteers. They have no obligation to review articles if they do not want to. So, you should be patient. Ruslik_ Zero 20:13, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Please re write article
The article I wrote for a notable person was Nick Efthimiou. It has been vandalized so many times that it has been taken down. It was also taken down because the sources provided were not reliable. I have re wrote it with many reliable sources and would like someone to write it for me. Here are the sources. Thank You. ( Question originally posted by User:97.117.253.71) CaptRik (talk) 19:22, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Only when gives the word.... them sources,  see. Fortuna  Imperatrix Mundi  19:15, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * (ec) The article has previously been created and deleted after the discussion here - Articles_for_deletion/Nick_Efthimiou. Given the reasons given there for deletion, I don't currently see how Nick meets Wikipedia's standards for inclusion in the encyclopaedia.  Sorry.  CaptRik (talk) 19:19, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think they're notable enough, and that old AfD kind of confirms that for me. They don't appear to have played in a fully professional football (soccer) league, as they've only played in college level football (soccer), and indoor football league (which aren't fully professional I don't think).
 * As for the sources listed, Wikibin appears to be user-generated, as does Kicksfan, he isn't mentioned in, and is a photo.  shows he has a trademark, which Wikipedia doesn't really care about.
 * As a result, definitely fails WP:NFOOTY, and unless there are actually reliable sources about him, then he fails WP:GNG too.
 * I'm going to ask at WT:FOOTY, but I think they'll probably agree with me. He's done lots of things, none of which are quite notable enough by Wikipedia's standards. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:23, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Help:Cite errors/Cite error included ref
{This content was transferred from the collapsed section above) Eagleash (talk) 19:55, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

I need helping correct the citation error in editing the article on "Superconducting Magnets." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edwightadams (talk • contribs) 19:35, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I have fixed a ref error on the page. A '/' was missing from a closing tag. Eagleash (talk) 19:55, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

collapsed section
Subsequent posts are disappearing into the collapsed section. Eagleash (talk) 19:57, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * A needed a corresonding  . Joseph2302 (talk) 20:07, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you both - I've been trying to figure this out for a while... CaptRik (talk)

Visual editor
Hello. It says here that I can avoid using VE by clicking the "Edit source" button instead of "Edit". Yet, recently I don't see such an "Edit source" button in regular articles anymore (only on special pages). Why is that?--Hubon (talk) 20:54, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * There has been a recent change which lets you choose which edit options you require. Click on 'preferences' at the top of any page, then 'editing', scroll down to 'editing options' where you should find a drop-down where you can select your preferred mode. Eagleash (talk) 20:59, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot!!! Why do they make things more complicated to us? By the way, the drop-down is under "Editor" (not "editing options") – at least in my account. Best regards--Hubon (talk) 21:08, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Removal of content from one's own personal talk page
I do have an important doubt. A disruptive editor has removed selectively from his personal page most of the comments I posted on his talk page, where I was also involved, even relevant for present issues, see here. I consider that to be irregular behaviour, but the WP talk page guidelines is not so clear on that, which leaves me baffled to be honest. Is that acceptable behaviour at all? Thanks Iñaki LL (talk) 22:05, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually the guideline is pretty clear on this. See WP:UP. Users are allowed to remove whatever they want from their own talk pages except for a very small number of things that are part of a wider community process. Removal is an acknowledgement that they have read it. --Majora (talk) 22:10, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * : It's their talkpage, so they can add/remove content how they want. On article talkpages, content shouldn't be removed like that, but rather archived, however the rule with userspaces is the user can do what they want. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:13, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok... However, if something has been posted on his talk page and it is presently relevant, and necessary to an ongoing discussion process, can that be legitimate at all? That is downright disruption as far as I see it. ??? Iñaki LL (talk) 22:21, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * And you would be seeing it wrong. Unless the post falls under the very specific exceptions outlined at WP:UP they can remove whatever they want. Period. Continuing to insist on this is disruptive on your part actually. The user has asked you to stop posting on their talk page. That is also acceptable and you should abide by that, expect for mandated notifications such as noticeboard notices. Continuing to do so after the user has asked you not to is disruptive. --Majora (talk) 22:45, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That is disturbing and have not come across such a case for more than 8 years editing, for it is not out of caprice that I am being heading to his talk page. Ok, thanks Iñaki LL (talk) 23:06, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

confused about uploading an image from an artist
Hi Folks,

I have an artist who gives her permission to upload photos of her paintings to an article about her. (Sol Kjok) What does this entail? I know you either have to have them put a Creative Commons license on the work, but what if they want it to remain in the non-free category but are giving Wikipedia sole permission to reproduce it. How do I provide evidence of this to the Wikipedia editors? I don't understand how I prove fair use. Every time I have tried to upload the photos, they get rejected.

Extremely confused.

Many thanks

TWB1934 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twb1934 (talk • contribs) 22:48, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Sole permission is not really how we do things here. They can either be under fair use if they meet all of the criteria at WP:NFCCP or they have to be free use (public domain, creative commons, ect.). In this instance fair use would not apply since you want to use them on the article about the artist. It would apply on an article about the painting. There is a slight difference there but it is a difference that matters. So if you want to use the paintings on the article about the artist they must be under free use. What that means is that the image is open to used or modified by anyone for any purpose. To get permission for this please have the artist fill out the form here: WP:CONSENT and email it into the permissions email detailed on the CONSENT page. If you have further questions about this please let me know. --Majora (talk) 22:52, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Majora Thanks so much for getting back to me so soon with your helpful information, Majora. Let me ask you another question. What about a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial No-Derivative Works license where the artist allows the photo to be shared? (either a photo of their paintings or a photo portrait of the artist by a professional photographer) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twb1934 (talk • contribs) 23:57, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That won't work.  It needs to be a licence that allows for any re-use, including commerical, such as  CC BY-SA.  RudolfRed (talk) 00:20, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi RudolfRed,

Thanks for all your help.

I just wanted to add a question on using paintings for pages about the artist. From what I understand, the image of the painting must be free use if it is to be used in the article about the artist. (not an article specifically about the painting)

Is there a reason why the articles for the artists below have paintings under fair use, not free use? I am confused because this seems to contradict what Majora and you are saying. Since these paintings are in articles about the artist, it would appear that they should be under a free-use license like CC BY-SA. Instead the paintings shown in these articles are under fair use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Golub https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Doig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Diebenkorn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Clemente

Thanks again for being so helpful!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twb1934 (talk • contribs) 00:29, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * This was asked on my talk page as well and I answered it there. I have already begun going through those pages and removing images that are definitely not supposed to be there. I will be starting discussions at WP:Files for discussion for the other ones that may not meet WP:NFCC. --Majora (talk) 02:18, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

PDF copy of article Not Downloading
I have been using the pdf download successfully until just now. I tried more than once to start over again by terminating my web browser (Firefox) and starting it again as well as selecting the "re-generate" option on the download-failure page.

Please advise.

-->Edward Siciliano. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.20.117.196 (talk) 23:04, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That's interesting, I experience the same error, I'll leave a note at at the technical place and see if they know what's going on. -- The Voidwalker  Discuss 00:24, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reporting this! This bug is being handled in T133136. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 05:32, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The issue is fixed, and you should now be able to download PDFs of articles. -- The Voidwalker  Discuss 20:19, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

versions of an article
Hello there,

I'm a graduate student with research interests in versioning. I would like to get three versions of an article where each version has a variety of changes such as insertion, deletion, spelling, and grammar. any suggestion to obtain such versions of an article in an efficient way, because I tried viewing the history of an article and it was very difficult to find such versions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.58.220.213 (talk) 23:28, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * When viewing page histories, it is possible to view each revision separately by clicking on the date of the edit. In order to view the difference between versions (diff), select the left radio button for the older version, the right radio button for the newer version, and click "Compare selected revisions". If you wish to see large changes between two versions, I suggest going back several years on good articles (or even better, featured articles) to see how they evolved (click "Oldest" to see how they started out). To view a random good article, click here (and for a random featured article, click here). -- The Voidwalker  Discuss 00:03, 20 April 2016 (UTC)