Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2016 May 12

= May 12 =

Trying to avoid reverts and snarky talk about a controversial topic

 * I happened to fall over an article that discusses a Press Release from a major TV studio. I also found an article from the LA Times re: that same Press release. It has to do with the spelling of two Television program's name and has been hotly debated. These changes will also affect the titles of two pages and all of the links, etc. There is an editor who hangs out on one of the pages who tends to be very snarky. Hence, asking the question first instead of boldly editing.

I am aware of the current errors in these articles being spread across the land, "after all we are Wikipedia". I am happy and willing to make the corrections, I am just wondering if there is anything I should do to make the changes as palatable as possible. BobDog54 (talk) 05:16, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia prefers to refer to subjects by the name that is usually used for them, not by their "official name" or by what their owners would like them to be called. If you want to change the name that an article uses, it will help your case if you provide an independent reference as evidence that the name you are changing it to is the one in common usage. Maproom (talk) 09:34, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * This entire question is a nit-pickers delight! Wikipedians decided, after arriving at consensus to call one show 0 and the other show O. Both are pronounced the same but spelled differently. The Studio said in 2010, that both show are spelled with a 0

The only difference is the years: 1978 or 2010; or original and reboot. Either item could be used to tell them apart. I can not think of another Television show where something like this has ever happened. BobDog54 (talk) 21:32, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Cant login
i have reset my password but I cant login. it is not accepting the new password and I cant change it again at the moment

can somebody offer any assistance please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.132.96.166 (talk) 09:23, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * What is the username and what happens when you try to log in? If you get en error message then quote it. 77.212.254.69 (talk) 10:07, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

HFA134a addition to that site
Dear Wikipedia, I am trying to add information to the HFA134a site and editing does not appear successful. Please advise. William FS Sellers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asthmatic anaesthetist (talk • contribs) 09:28, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Your edit to 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane has not (as yet) been reverted, but other editors may object to the formatting which you have used. Your  has been to WP:sandbox, and (as explained in the header) "any user can edit this page and it is automatically cleared regularly (anything you write will not remain indefinitely)". --David Biddulph (talk) 09:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Read the Tutorial for an introduction to formatting. —teb728 t c 09:50, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I have removed the misformatted table you inserted in the article, converted it to text, made some copy-edits and changes to style, and re-inserted it as a section "Use in inhalers" of the article. I will leave it to others to judge whether it is an acceptable addition. Maproom (talk) 10:12, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Editing Article
Hi,

For the second time I am editing an article at wiki and for the second time few hours after I am editing the article, every change that I have done just disperse and the article turns back into the previous information's?

Every time after I edit the article I press Save and everything is all right. Later one my changes are not anymore without any warning?

Can someone tell me what might cause this problem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drilonasd (talk • contribs) 14:06, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The reasons were explained to you in response to your earlier question at above. --David Biddulph (talk) 14:14, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Archived.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  21:11, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Descriptive terms
My question is in regards to article titles. How does one determine if an article title is a descriptive term or a proper name for an article title? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitchumch (talk • contribs) 15:06, 12 May 2016‎ (UTC)


 * I might be alone in this but I don't understand the question. Could you elaborate? Dismas |(talk) 16:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I have been in different talk page discussions surrounding the term Civil Rights Movement. Some editors think the term is a descriptive term that can be applied to any social movement they think is a civil rights movement.  I think the term is the proper name for only one event in the US during the 20th century.  How would you determine which position is correct?  How do you determine if the term is a descriptive term or proper name?  Mitchumch (talk) 16:38, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Hmm. I see your point but I happen to know that the Northern Ireland Civil Rights movement was explicitly inspired by, and imitated to some degree, the American Civil Rights Movement.Daithidebarra (talk) 18:06, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * WP:COMMONNAME basically implies the article title should defer to what the majority of sources refer to the subject as, failing that a consensus reached by interested editors. CaptRik (talk) 19:41, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * There are three articles called African-American Civil Rights Movement.
 * African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95)
 * African-American Civil Rights Movement (1896–1954)
 * African-American Civil Rights Movement (1954–68)
 * These three articles convey the idea the movement started in 1865. This would be an anachronism.  For example, the American Revolution is a specific event. To create articles American Revolution (1765–1783), American Revolution (1784–1865), and American Revolution (1866–1968) would be an anachronism. Editors ignored WP:Reliable Sources when titles of these articles were created.  Would it then be okay for WP:Concensus to accept these three articles on the American Revolution?  However, if editors are convinced the term "American Revolution" is a descriptive term and not a proper name, then can you understand their point-of-view?  So my question is how do you establish if a term is a descriptive term or proper name?  Mitchumch (talk) 21:57, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * These articles convey the idea that the African-American Civil Rights movement started in 1865. They convey that idea because the movement started in 1865, having previously been the anti-slavery movement.  There is no anachronism, because the movement continued with varying fortunes at least until 1968.  If you think that one or two of the articles should be renamed, discuss it on the appropriate talk page.  If discussion is inconclusive, or if consensus runs against you, as it probably will, you may follow any of the procedures described in the dispute resolution policy.  The articles in question are about a specific civil rights movement, the African-American Civil Rights Movement, which distinguishes them from those about any other civil rights movement.  I am not sure what your point is.  Robert McClenon (talk) 02:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'll look into the dispute resolution process. Thanks. Mitchumch (talk) 03:43, 13 May 2016 (UTC)


 * There is a lengthy discussion at Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1954–68). Discussing it here too might be regarded as forum shopping. --David Biddulph (talk) 02:27, 13 May 2016 (UTC)


 * That discussion was initiated for a reason that is entirely different from the reason that brought me here. An outcome that is based on a support or oppose won't address the question I am trying to answer here. Mitchumch (talk) 03:43, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

disruptive editing?
there's an rfc that appears to have been initiated due to a few editors bizarre thinking..their bizarre thinking is contained in the rfc too...I realize people are allowed to think in bizarre ways for the most part (and will be overruled by consensus etc) but is what they are doing technically against policy here (ie wikilawyering/disruptive editing)?? It is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Black_supremacy 68.48.241.158 (talk) 16:21, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It is best to assume good faith and to remember that different people define words and concepts in different ways. Since they are contributing to a discussion, they are perfectly within policy to state their opinion, no matter how fringe it may be (provided it doesn't break any policies like NPA. I'm not going to comment here on the RFC in question. — crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 17:56, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Urgent: Help needed with article, repeated removal of material, and repeated claims by remover that reinstatement is "edit warring"
I would be very grateful for some help with the Bellevue Education article. There is clearly a dispute of some kind here and I would welcome advice as to how it might be resolved.

The pattern is that user Wikijan2016 is repeatedly deleting information, and then accusing (so far two, including me) editors of edit warring when they reinstate. There may also be a COIN issue. It might be helpful if editors could have a look at the article, the history, and the talk page and suggest a way forward.Daithidebarra (talk) 18:18, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You are participating in an edit war. Edit warring is only about your actions, and has nothing to do with whether or not what you are doing makes an article better or worse.  Edit warring is the use of repeated reverts to force other people to accept your preferred version of an article.  Your preferred version may even be the better version and you would still get the same block.  That's because edit warring is not about factual accuracy, it is about behavior, and at Wikipedia we don't decide who is "right" by whoever has the greater willpower to repeatedly force others to accept their point of view.  We instead use talk pages to discuss and dispute resolution to ask for help and build WP:CONSENSUS through discussion.  Edit warring is wrong, regardless of whether or not you believe you're preferred text is the correct one.  -- Jayron 32 18:46, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I shall stand aside for 24 hours as I see that Wikijan2016 now appears to be engaging in discussion. I would point out that if you read the Bellevue Education Talk page you will see that a number of prior attempts were made to engage Wikijan2016, and I would defend my recent revert as having, it would seem, finally provoked Wikijan2016 into a discussion. There is obviously a dispute which needs to be resolved, which is why I brought it here.Daithidebarra (talk) 21:28, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Discussion now at Conflict of interest/Noticeboard...Naraht (talk) 18:57, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

An oddity
Hello all. Today I came across the article. No real problems with that - other than the fact that the EL no longer works. The odd thing is the articles talk page Talk:Air Ticket. Most of the posts there are the kind left for an editor rather than those discussing the article. I am not even sure whether there is any need to change anything but I thought other eyes should take a look at it in case it needs some kind of altering. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to check on this. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 21:50, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Looks like Air Ticket started out in userspace, and when it got moved to article space, the user talkpage got moved too I guess. I've removed all the irrelevant stuff from the talkpage. Joseph2302 (talk) 21:57, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Makes sense . I hadn't seen anything like it before - always something new to learn around here. Thanks for taking care of things. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 22:00, 12 May 2016 (UTC)