Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2016 November 18

= November 18 =

Is there some sane way to force archiving of a cited page?
I just added a citeable source to Tudor Giurgiu, but I suspect the source is not going to be a long-lasting page: its URL will probably be reused for next year's edition of the same film festival. Yes, something like archive.org may save a copy, but is there something systematic I can do either at archive.org or elsewhere to make sure the cited page is preserved somewhere? - Jmabel &#124; Talk 06:37, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have a direct answer, but one thing I often do when the stability of a source is unclear is to include a quote of the most important bit in the citation template. so the key part is preserved in WP proper. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 13:03, 18 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, why don't you checkout Using WebCite? Thanks. Lourdes  17:11, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Lourdes! 71.41.210.146, quoting won't do it in this case, I drew half a dozen facts from the page. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 22:51, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Archive.org has a page with an "Archive now" link, so you don't have to wonder if it will get around to doing so. Strange that this isn't on their main page: https://archive.org/web/   Crow  Caw  22:53, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Table layout help needed
The table at 3D Fold Evolution is far too wide for the page. It needs to be reconfigured so that the three "sections" are stacked vertically rather than horizontally. Unfortunately table markup is my nemesis. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:08, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I have reduced the image size as a quick fix for many users to avoid scrolling.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3D_Fold_Evolution&diff=750207591&oldid=750203494] Others are welcome to do more. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:48, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I poked at it a little more, eliminating the left-hand label column. I also made the text   which looks a lot better.  But yes, nice illustrations, and displaying them well on a variable-width browser window is a challenge.  71.41.210.146 (talk) 13:17, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Wiki book
I cannot figure out how to make a wiki Book. Where is the best instructions or video on how to do it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TrainerMentorCoach (talk • contribs) 08:45, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Does Help:Books help? PrimeHunter (talk) 09:37, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Maintenance category
I don't how to get rid of a maintenance category on Hopewell High School Complex. I assume it's related to ref #5 with multiple authors. The first maintenance category was this one. I changed "author" to "authors" and now this category appears. Does anyone know how I can fix this? APK whisper in my ear  13:10, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

P.S. I tried "authorn" and "vauthors" as mentioned on the category page, but when I checked the preview button, it screwed up the reference. APK whisper in my ear  13:12, 18 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I have no experience in the area, but I did the edit, and the preview page showed the category, but it went away after I hit "save". So it's done. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 13:36, 18 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Awesome, thanks so much. APK whisper in my ear  13:46, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Template:prime and Template:italics correction/calc
A while ago I was editing an article that used the notation $f′(x)$ a lot. As you probably can't see, there's supposed to be a Prime (symbol) to the right of that f indicating a derivative. I wanted some extra space for intelligibility, so inspired by, created to add the extra space. Unfortunately, enough space for an italic f looked pretty ugly on other letters, but I figured it was a yes/no decision at edit time.

Then User:Pppery nominated it for deletion, and there was a delay while we decided not to do that.

But during the discussion, User:Uanfala suggested a more ambitious design which I've made an initial implementation of. Before I start using it everywhere, though, I'd like to ask what people think about the design and its limitations. The helper Italics correction/calc is designed to be useful more generally, such as in Italics correction.

I could add some support for HTML entities for Greek letters, but that would enlarge the significantly, since I'd want to allow the &amp;alpha;, &amp;#945;, &amp;#x3B1; and &amp;#x03B1 forms. Adding support for extracting a trailing HTML entity from arbitrary text automatically without being ridiculously inefficient is also a bit tricky, and might require a drop to Lua. (Or has someone else already created a template which solves that problem? The lack of alternation in Lua patterns means I need multiple calls to  to do a reasonably accurate match.)

Anyway, any opinions on the template design? Also feel free to complain about the documentation if you have trouble with that part. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 13:23, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I think it would make sense to go to the trouble of overcoming the template's limitations only if it becomes more widely used. If no-one responds here, I guess there might be an audience for such questions at WP:VPT or WT:MOS. – Uanfala (talk) 13:30, 18 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm mostly worried there's something in the template's design that might preclude improvement, or be a PITA to use. The swapped-order  is a bit confusing, for example, but I can't think of anything better.  I just wanted a few more eyes on it before I started baking it in to main-space pages.  (And thanks for the pointer to WP:VPT!) 71.41.210.146 (talk) 13:41, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

What does transclude mean in the context of creating an infobox?
I'm attempting to create an infobox for "International Rivalry" (large, long running conflicts between nations that are more than simply wars), but in following the directions for how to create one, I get lost at the "transclude the prototype" step. The wikilink in the article doesn't really give an example of how to do this, which is what I need. Are there better, simpler directions on how to create or tweak the infobox? Thanks in advance. Hires an editor (talk) 13:33, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * "Transclude" means to invoke the template (with ) on some other page. Like, as the help page suggests, a discussion page. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 13:49, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * That's the normal way in which a template is used. For example, if I type  here, seeing (non-admin closure) lets me know that it's successfully been transcluded.  The point is that it's not merely linked, and it's not subst-ed, which means that you dump the entire contents of the template.  Check your talk page.  Nyttend (talk) 13:40, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Copyvio
Hi, I just removed a link that presented a copyvio on the article Little Things (short story), see this diff. Does the presence of a copyvio link as a reference on Wikipedia violate our copyright policy, or would there need to be a full version of the text to constitute a violation of copyright policy? The question is academic since the link is dead, but I'd still like to know what would have been done. Thanks, Icebob99 (talk) 14:39, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * See WP:LINKVIO for the official policy, and WP:COPYVIOEL. My understanding is that it's not technically within the scope of WP:COPYVIO (for the purpose of e.g. WP:G12 speedy deletion), but a related rule.  I'm also a lot less picky about external links, and will give a useful external link the benefit of the doubt in almost all cases. (As that first link says, whether there is a legal danger at all is not entirely clear.)  71.41.210.146 (talk) 15:12, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Grammy nominations?
Dear editors: I have been checking out this draft: Draft:Michael Charles, which is about a blues musician. The page has multiple claims of notability: Blues Hall of Fame (apparently a local Chicago event, not the one with a Wikipedia article) more than 30 albums released (they exist, but I found only one album reviews), multiple tours (dozens of extensive upcoming events announcements which mainly have info from his publicist, very little after-event reporting). Also, the draft claims eight Grammy nominations. The Grammy website lists winners, but is there a place I can find a list of those nominated to verify this claim?&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 14:40, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Having a hard time finding a cross-year list. The info seems to be copied from http://www.michaelcharles.us/biography/.  I see his name as #78/226 of the list at this list h ttp://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/82723?page=40#post-2408933 (not linked because link spam filter) of the 2010 nominees for "Field 4 - Rock Category 20 - Best Rock Song", but not on the much shorter list at http://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Full-List-2010-Grammy-Award-Nominees-2009-12-02-202228-6497686 71.41.210.146 (talk) 15:33, 18 November 2016 (UTC)


 * hi. Chicago Tribune says he's been nominated a few times... Lourdes  17:05, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * 71.41.210.146 and, thanks for taking time to check into this. The musician's website uses the terminology "Grammy elected". I used the Wayback Machine and found an old version of his website which specified the years of the "elections", agreeing with the draft.  The 2010 list at Pulsemusic has more than 200 entries in one category, whereas "Grammy Award" says there are only five "nominations", and sure enough the short list at PopSugar doesn't include him.  Curious, I did a Google search: "Grammy elected" -Michael.  The result was about 100 hits, some of which were about grandmothers.  I conclude that this is a made-up term intended to mislead impress (AGF) readers of his advance publicity, and that it succeeded in confusing me, and some journalists, including the Chicago Tribune contributor mentioned above, into thinking that he had been "Grammy nominated". I plan to remove all mention of it from the draft.  It makes me wonder what else is not what it seems.&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 23:29, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for doing all the tedious but necessary work of checking references to find these exaggerations. Grammy Award explains the two-round process leading to a 5-entry short list of "nominees",but doesn't explain what the first round entries are called; "elected" may even be accurate.  (That whole section is also completely uncited. )  71.41.210.146 (talk) 01:43, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Citing a Reddit AMA?
Can you use Reddit as a source if the section was written by a person directly related to the topic? I'm writing an article about an upcoming video game, and one of the producers set up a Reddit page with information about it, as well as an AMA (Ask me anything). I was wondering if these pages would be suitable sources, since they come directly from the source? UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 14:59, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Within the limits of WP:PRIMARY sources, seems fine to me. An official AMA is reasonably reliably attributed and not just "some random guy claiming to work there". 71.41.210.146 (talk) 15:15, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Of course, closely related sources can't be used to show notability. I try to avoid adding information on the basis of only a primary source, because there are thousands of pieces of information which could be included in an article, but most are trivial; finding a fact discussed in independent published sources makes it more likely to be of interest to others beyond those closely connected to the subject, and therefore worth including.&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 17:46, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I was trying to say the same thing more briefly with the reference to WP:PRIMARY. I just don't see that being hosted on Reddit makes a primary source any worse.  Elon Musk's twitter is an important source for SpaceX and Tesla-related information.  71.41.210.146 (talk) 19:50, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think it matters if it's a primary source. Based on the topic and the status of the game, I think primary sources are actually my best bet, if used properly. Here's the article (It's not nearly complete): Astroneer UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 20:02, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The applicable policy in this situation is WP:SELFPUB, not WP:PRIMARY, as SELFPUB is the more specific and more restrictive of the two. Self-published sources may be used for mundane details about the individual only. Also, per reasonable doubt as to its authenticity, AMAs should come from major subs that have instituted a reasonably reliable process for verification of AMA participants (e.g. /r/AMA, /r/askscience, ect.). If there is no verification process in place, there is no reason to believe that the person is who they claim to be. Timothy Joseph Wood  19:56, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * You're exactly right, mea culpa. Still, I was at least pointing in the right general direction.    Yes, self-published sources are ideal for some things.  Most notably for documenting claims made by the subject.  Company X announced a profit of $x.xx per share in 2014?  Y announced they were severing ties with Z for reason Q?  All great things for self-published sources.  But for the quality, significance, or other merits of author A's book, author A is not to be trusted in the slightest. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 20:22, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

How to start biography of notable person?
How can I start writing a biography of a notable person? Is there any template I can use? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swijewar (talk • contribs) 17:51, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * "Template" has a specific technical meaning to the MediaWiki software, but if you mean it in the more general sense, use any other existing article you like. Use "Edit" (or "View Source") to display the wikitext, then copy it to Draft:Notable Person, delete all the unwanted information, and insert new.  (And don't click "Save" on the original page!) 71.41.210.146 (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, please see Your first article first. Thanks. Lourdes  00:01, 19 November 2016 (UTC)


 * There actually is a rough biography template. Copy and paste the code into a page and fill it out with the relevant information. clpo13(talk) 00:43, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

How can the Wikipedia app be forced to update? An expletive is currently appearing next to Jared Kushner's link on the Main Page.
An expletive is appearing next to Jared Kushner's link in the "Trending" section of the Main Page with the Wikipedia app, but the Wikidata vandalism has already been removed. Dustin ( talk ) 23:03, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, WP:Purge has details on how to do this. To purge the main page, you could use this link. Thanks. Lourdes  00:20, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I know how to purge a page in a regular manner. The issue specifically affects the Wikipedia app. Here is a screenshot. Dustin  ( talk ) 00:31, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh I missed that. I'll ping who might have more information on this. There's also Wikimedia Apps/Team/Bug reporting in case you may wish to report the bug directly to the web app team. Thanks.  Lourdes  00:49, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * https://en.m.wikipedia.org and https://www.wikipedia.org show the current Wikidata description when I search. I don't have the Wikipedia app and cannot test it but I guess the "Trending" feature caches descriptions. I don't know whether it can be forced to update earlier than normal. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:43, 19 November 2016 (UTC)