Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2017 August 19

= August 19 =

Heath Ledger
Hi wiki The actor's name is Heath Andrew Ledger not heathcliffe. Kind regards Allison Holland — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.126.48.40 (talk) 00:43, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * His common name (acting name) may have been Heath Ledger, but his birth name was indeed Healthcliffe: . WP tends to title articles based on common names for subjects most popularly known, but within the article (and infobox) will give the birthname - or actual name - of the subject. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 01:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Amy Beach's 150th birthday
Composer Amy Beach's 150th birthday is September 5. Is there any chance that she could be honored as a featured article on that day? Thanks you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarkesociety (talk • contribs) 03:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The article Amy Beach is currently listed as start class, which means it has a long way to go. Practically speaking, it would be nearly impossible to get it into FA shape in just a couple of weeks. If you want it to be the Featured Article of the day, with a link from the main page, well, sorry but those decisions are made too far in advance. The 151st birthday doesn't have the same ring to it, I realize, but it's not too early to start working on the article for next year. In the meantime, you can suggest a link from the "On This Day" section of the main page on September 5; see Selected anniversaries for how to do that. Rivertorch   FIRE WATER   06:22, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * In case it isn't clear, in order to become today's featured article on Main Page, an article must first get status as one of the Featured articles which are considered to be the best articles Wikipedia has to offer. Today's featured article/September 2017 hasn't been chosen yet but it would be hard to become a featured article in time. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Bone Wars
My 5 year old son just clicked on the article on your main page about dinosaurs. He clicked on Bone Wars and was greeted with pornography. I assume this is a hacking incident and hope that you will change it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.22.244.13 (talk) 03:27, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The vandal was reverted 11 times, each within a minute or so, and had been blocked from editing by the time you posted your message. Thank you for pointing out the vandalism. --David Biddulph (talk) 03:32, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The idea of semi-protecting Today's Featured Article is listed among the perennial proposals at the Village Pump. I can't think why. Rivertorch   FIRE WATER   06:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

add a colon?
it says to add a colon, do i add it the beginging or the end? Ramesty (talk) 05:06, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Ramesty, I'm guessing you're asking about colon usage in discussions. Placing a colon at the beginning of a line indents the paragraph that follows. Indentation is used when replying to someone else's post on a talk page (or on certain other pages, such as this one). For instance, I'm replying to you so I'm indenting. If you reply to me, you should indent further; you do that by placing two colons at the beginning of the line. Rivertorch   FIRE WATER   06:09, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Two colons, eh, well that's interesting. Thanks! Ramesty (talk) 06:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The general rule is one more colon than the post you reply to, so others can see what you replied to in discussions where some replies are not to the post immediately above it. I used one colon here so it looks like I'm only replying to your original post. I should have used three. See more at Help:Using talk pages. I see you are doing The Wikipedia Adventure so I guess you saw a simplified instruction: "Indent replies with a colon  to move the text one notch to the right and show you're responding to a message." That's considered good enough for beginners who shouldn't be overloaded with information. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:23, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Ireland's Waterfrod Co
The Waterford Company does not appear to be in Ireland anymore by Google website. The headquarters show a New Jersey. The Singer (Sue) woman I have heard tried to make it hers. There is a new owner but attorneys Tomas Daniel Kelly in England with co-partners Steve and John are supposed to be the attorneys on account. Could you please verify this and stop the hostile takeover. I can't get through to them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.108.141 (talk) 13:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  13:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You are right, The Waterford Company does not exist anymore. The brand name Waterford Crystal has a new owner, Fiskars Corporation. Dougmcdonell (talk) 20:55, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Just need an advise about translation English page into Russian
Hi! I have some dispute with participants from Russian Wiki. I decided to translate existing English wiki page into Russian in Russian Wiki. It was successful for a year but then unfortunately I found out that one of participant from Russian Wiki deleted the whole page in Russian and the reason was that personality is not important enough. My question - is it really legal according to Wiki rules to delete existed for a longperiod translated pages? Hope for answer. Thanks Яна Федорова (talk) 16:04, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It's fine. Even if the page was translated here and is good here, it might not be ok there, because there might be differing standards of notability (importance, basically) or the Wikipedians might have a different philosophy in terms of whether to delete a page or not. Hope that helps! RileyBugz 会話 投稿記録  18:44, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * RileyBugz Thanks, any way it's good to know. Does that mean I don't have any possibility to change this situation? Яна Федорова (talk) 07:51, 20 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Hellp. . I'm afraid we can't tell you anything about handling the situation, because it is in the Russian Wikipedia, which is an entirely separate project, with its own rules and its own governance. I suggest you ask at ru:Википедия:Форум/Вопросы. --ColinFine (talk) 11:19, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Offensive term used in an article, obviously edited by people opposed to the person's political ideology.
I have deeply offended by a offensive term that is used in the article about H.Raja, an Indian politician. The article link is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Raja

Instead of H. Raja, the offensive word "Echa" is used. I request and expect Wikipedia to correct this criminal act as soon as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.2.116.128 (talk) 17:00, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Then click the "edit" button and fix it. RileyBugz 会話 投稿記録  17:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Wikipedia! I know this is your very first contribution, and I'm sure you cannot take the helpful advice above; however, no edit summary reason was given, so I reverted for now: requesting a reliable source to back the edit. I'll keep an eye on the page for now. We'll see what happens; it may have just been a drive-by vandalism since it was an IP that seems to be vandalizing other pages similar to this one. They may need to be reported. Thanks! Maineartists (talk) 17:16, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Where can I find data (statistics) about use of a template?
Hi, I was just minding my own business, editing stuff, you know, the same. Thanks to one editor, Template:Infobox software license is available to the wiki-pt project now, which I'm going to use. But I got curious out of nowhere: where is this Infobox already used? I know that GPL uses it; where else? I'm sure there is a list somewhere. It would be somewhat helpful for me I guess, since I could simply copyedit some information. Kind regards! User:Tetizeraz. Send me a ✉️ ! 19:40, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * What links here; left column of the template page.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 19:47, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

My edits being constantly deleted.
I updated the The Exodus page, to include the earlier dates given by Josephus Flavius (a 1st century AD chronicler).

The update was deleted, because it was claimed that Josephus was a primary source. So I re-wrote the article to point out that Josephus was not a primary source (1,600 years displaced from the events, and he was analysing history rather than repeating it).

The update was deleted, because it was claimed that Josephus is not a reliable source, even though other Wiki pages continuously quote Josephus. I was told that I needed to quote a modern historian.

So I re-wrote the article and quoted one modern and one Victorian historian, who both discussed and supported the Exodus dates given by Josephus (and his links with the Hyksos Exodus). But the update was deleted again. Not modified or commented on, but simply deleted.

Sorry, but this looks like Wiki editors rewriting history to suit themselves. Josephus Flavius (Judaism"s greatest historian) claims that the Israelite Exodus was the Hyksos Exodus, but Wiki will not allow anyone to know that. Even though modern academia discusses and tentatively supports this assertion.  So why will Wiki not allow this to be mentioned?

My update is given below.

Tatelyle (talk) 20:36, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Dating the Exodus
Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive. William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed a date of around 1250–1200 BCE, but his so-called "Israelite" evidence (house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, etc.) are continuations of Canaanite culture. The lack of evidence has led scholars to conclude that it is difficult or even impossible to link the exodus story to any specific point in history. Finkelstein and Silberman also place the Exodus in the 13th century BC and debate the accuracy of the biblical account. They state that Jericho was unwalled and does not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account (e.g., Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) there was also no sign of a destruction".)  Finkelstein and Silberman's assessment is based upon a 13th century chronology for the Exodus, and would not necessarily apply if the Exodus took place at an earlier date. It is universally accepted that Jericho was a substantial fortified city before its destruction in the 16th century BC.

Although controversial, earlier dates for the Exodus are assumed in several ancient texts and modern analyses. The biblical Book of places the Exodus 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple, and based upon the accepted date for King Solomon's reign this places the Exodus in c. 1446 BCE. However it is widely claimed that the time period in 1 Kings merely represents twelve generations of forty years each. In a similar fashion Professors R. A. Freund and E. W. Hengstenberg concur with Flavius Josephus, who says that the Israelite Exodus was the Hyksos Exodus, which would again place the Israelite Exodus in an earlier era. Prof Freund quotes Josephus when he says:

"It is evident ... that these shepherds as they are here called (the Hyksos Shepherd Kings), who were no other than our forefathers, were delivered out of Egypt, and came thence and inhabited this country."

Manetho and the Hyksos
The Greek author Hecataeus of Abdera (c. 320 BCE) wrote a history of Egypt in which he told how the Egyptians blamed a plague on foreigners and expelled them from the country, whereupon Moses, their leader, took them to Canaan. A similar and more famous story is told by the Egyptian historian Manetho (3rd century BCE), chief priest at the Temple of Ra in Heliopolis, which is preserved in two quotations by the 1st century CE Jewish historian Josephus. In the first volume of Manetho's History of Egypt, as retold by Josephus, Manetho describes the Hyksos, their lowly origins in Asia, their invasion and dominion over Egypt, their eventual expulsion, and their subsequent exile to Judaea and their establishing the city of Jerusalem and its temple. In the second volume Manetho defined the Hyksos as being the Hyksos or "Shepherd Kings" or "Captive Shepherds" who invaded Egypt, destroying its cities and temples and making war with the Egyptian people to "gradually destroy them to the very roots". Following a war with the Egyptians a treaty was negotiated stipulating that these Hyksos Shepherds were to exit Egypt. It is Josephus who identifies the Hyksos with the Jews, not Manetho. Professor Freund quotes Josephus when he says:

"[The Hyksos] kept possession of Egypt five hundred and eleven years. After this ... the shepherds were subdued and were driven out of other parts of Egypt, but were shut up in a place named Avaris ... Despairing of taking the place by siege [Thummosis] came to an agreement with them: that they should leave Egypt ... After this agreement was made, they went away with their whole families and effects, not fewer in number than two hundred and forty thousand; and took their journey from Egypt, through the wilderness, for Syria. ... where they built a city in ... Judea ... and called it Jerusalem. In another book Manetho says, “That this nation thus called shepherds, were also called captives in their sacred books.” And this account of his is the truth. For feeding of sheep was the employment of our forefathers ... and as they led a wandering life in feeding sheep they were called shepherds. Nor was it without reason that they were called captives by the Egyptians, since one of our ancestors, Joseph, told the King of Egypt that he was a captive."

Both Freund and Hengstenberg agree with Josephus' analysis of the accounts by Manetho, which equate the Hyksos people and Exodus with the Israelite people and Exodus. Freund says: "It is clear from this account that neither Josephus nor Manetho connects the Exodus with Pharaoh Rameses." Freund also notes that the biblical Ramesses, which has been identified with Pi-Ramesses in the Nile Delta by many Egyptologists, was located on the same site as Avaris, leading him to add:

"[Avaris] was probably the ancient city of Rameses mentioned in the Book of Exodus (1:11) ... If so, the Book of Exodus preserves an accurate and historically verifiable fact: that the 16th century BC Exodus began from Avaris, which was indeed at a later time a city of Ramesses."

In conclusion Hengstenberg claims that the Egyptians adopted the Israelite Exodus story to construct their own history of the Hyksos; while Freund believes that the biblical redactors took the history of the Hyksos and blended it with other events to create the account of the Israelite Exodus. Manetho's second account of an exodus relates how 80,000 lepers and other "impure people", led by a priest named Osarseph, join forces with the former Hyksos, now living in Jerusalem, to take over Egypt. They wreak havoc until eventually the pharaoh and his son chase them out to the borders of Syria, where Osarseph gives the lepers a law-code and changes his name to Moses, although the identification of Osarseph with Moses in the second account may be a later addition. Josephus strongly disassociates the Israelites from this second account.

Historians agree that the stories told by Hecataeus and Manetho are clearly related in some manner to the biblical account of the Exodus. However, it is impossible to tell whether these accounts bear witness to actual historical events or whether they are a polemical response to the Exodus story, or indeed whether the Exodus story is a response to the Egyptian accounts.


 * your edits might have been treated with more respect if they had been made from your registered account, instead of from an IP address. (Things shouldn't be that way, but they sometimes are.) Maproom (talk) 21:19, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * In any case, the help desk is not the place to post extensive excerpts from articles, nor the place to seek consensus for such changes. You ahve debated this at soem length on Talk:The Exodus, and found that the consensus is against you. You can post at the WP:RSN asking for an opinion on the reliability of Josephus as a source in this connection. You can try dispute resolution, probably an RFC. (Don't try both at once.) But you may not be able to et this content introduced over the objections of other editors that it conflicts with the views of modern sources. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 21:28, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Eminem on list of all time album sales
this list is wrong List of best-selling albums Eminem has 3 albums on this list... it is out of date Eminem discography Albert368 14:51 19th August, 2017 —Preceding undated comment added 21:44, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Content on Wikipedia is almost| always out-of-date,, becausew we wait for the sources, and then for a volunteer to make the edits. You can make the update yourself, or post to Talk:List of best-selling albums. In either case, please cite a reliable source. Note that other Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources, although sources cited in them should be. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 21:53, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I tried editing but it is auto confirmed editing and I am not it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Albert368 (talk • contribs) 21:48, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Then post on the talk page and ask for some autoconfirmed editor to make the change. Be sure to provide a source. However, you appear to be autoconfirmed. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 21:57, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia has my photo with the wrong person
How do I remove ???? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:33CA:4F00:A125:6182:EC18:B6D2 (talk) 23:15, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * What do you mean "has my photo with the wrong person"? Do you mean that the person in the photo isn't you? Could you please specify? RileyBugz 会話 投稿記録  23:17, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * What article or page are you talking about, and exactly what is the problem, please? We can't fix it if you don't give us the details. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 7:23 pm, Today (UTC−4)
 * And please don't create multiple sections for the same issue. It doesn't help. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 23:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Is the photo in a box on a search results page at an external search engine like Google, Yahoo or Bing? They often display photos which are not taken from a Wikipedia article they quote and link to near the photo. See Template:HD/GKG for Google. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:33, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, what PrimeHunter mentions often happens. IP Editor with ID ending in B6D2, I want to be clear. It was and is fine that you posted here with a question. I and others posting responses only want to get more information so that we can help with your issue, and to let you know about the conventions of posting here, so that you can communicate with us more effectively. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 00:01, 20 August 2017 (UTC)