Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2017 May 19

= May 19 =

Template:Poem
I tried to figure out why the spacing between stanzas is larger than without the template and whether that's suppsed to be that way. I also tried to reduce the spacing, but it didn't work. In my view, the spacing should be the same as in regular text, because otherwise articles appear to be formatted unhomogeneously. Could somebody help me with this matter?--Liuthar (talk) 00:30, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi . To answer your first question ("why the spacing between stanzas is larger than without the template and whether that's suppsed to be that way"), that's because you are comparing two different fonts – the font that is rendered using the template is different from the font you are seeing without the template. To address your second point ("In my view, the spacing should be the same as in regular text, because otherwise articles appear to be formatted unhomogeneously"), the spacing currently in place matches the spacing of the font that is rendered within the template – in other words, the spacing between the paragraphs is not any more than would be if an additional line were to be included in the spacing. In summary, I believe if a poem is to be rendered in a different font and different structure than the rest of the article, then the spacing too must match the different font; and that is okay. Thanks. Lourdes  01:14, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for your kind reply. Though I'm not quite sure whether I've got you right there, in fact. For instance, when you look at the spacing between our postings here, wouldn't you then agree that it is considerably smaller than between the two rendered (ǃ) sample stanzas in the template? That's the point I'm trying to make...--Liuthar (talk) 01:31, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes . That's because out here, what you perceive as spacing between paragraphs, is not being generated by giving any extra line; while at the template poem, the spacing that you see, is being generated by giving an extra line. For viewing pleasure, if you want the spacing after paragraph in the template poem to match that which you see in general articles, you can simply use the template for each stanza rather than using just one template for the whole poem. For example, I've used the poem template below with paragraph spacing that you may prefer.

'' In Xanadu did Kubla Khan A stately pleasure-dome decree: Where Alph, the sacred river, ran Through caverns measureless to man Down to a sunless sea. '' So twice five miles of fertile ground With walls and towers were girdled round: And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills, Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree; And here were forests ancient as the hills, Enfolding sunny spots of greenery. ''

Thanks. Lourdes 03:39, 19 May 2017 (UTC)


 * All Template:Poem does is apply the poem tag from mw:Extension:Poem. I don't think we can change the handling of empty lines. The poem tag preserves line breaks so an empty line becomes a full empty line in the output with the same height as other lines. An empty line in normal wikitext causes the new paragraph tag at HTML element. Spacing between paragraphs is less than a full empty line. I'm not sure it's a good idea to split a poem into many small poem tags. Each  makes a separate  . The poem class has different potential uses and I think it should cover the whole poem. Background coloring could for example be added but would look bad if the coloring didn't include the space between stanzas. There could also be tools extracting poems from articles but thinking it's a bunch of separate poems. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:20, 19 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay, thank you bothǃ Did I get you right: you would basically agree that an adaptation to the standard text paragraph spacing would make sense but it is technically unrealizable? Too bad...--Liuthar (talk) 01:27, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I actually like that the spacing is larger in poems so it's easier to identify new stanzas. With normal text paragraphs you usually get a big hint from the last line ending early in the previous paragraph. A full empty line may be a bit on the large side but it doesn't annoy me. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:49, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * In other words, what perhaps PrimeHunter means (If I'm reading it correctly), is that an adaptation to the standard text paragraph spacing would be technically realizable but would not be sensible/preferable. Lourdes  04:15, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether it's technically realizable. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:55, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Insult by
Dear community, I edited the 2017 Times Square car crash article. I edited the template to add maps and the car as a tool used in this car crash. The user User:MonsterHunter32 wrote on my talk page and on the talk page of the article, that I am "edit warring" there. That was because I used the template "civillian attack" which I used to add the maps and the car. It was the first time I added the word "attack" and now he is claiming I am edit warring. It makes me really sad. I am using spare time to help the community, and a bully like him is just running around and bullying people. What can I do?--Rævhuld (talk) 00:41, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * PS! I understand his argument, that the use of the term "attack" was wrong. I didn't changed it back. But I just don't get why he got personal and attacking me.--Rævhuld (talk) 00:46, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Please note this User:Rævhuld has been engaged in disruptive behavior for a long time. He has falsly accused not only me but even administrators of "bullying" or "harassing". See his talk page history. I warned him not to edit-war based on his revert and to stop disruptive behavior. Instead he started accusing me of insulting, edit-warring on the talk page itself:, , and. I'll publish some other details about him soon. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 01:06, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

His edits were all around the same theme of the attack being "deliberate". Here he represents it as civilian attack, here that the car was a weapon and here as terrorism. All of this is contrary to or not confirmed by sources. Also herestored the weapon section, revert. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 01:12, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * , hello. I understand what is going on and would advise you to follow the steps laid out in dispute resolution. Any newsy incident is expected to evoke frantic editing during the initial course of development; which is what seems to be occurring on the article. Given that this article has already been nominated for deletion, and a significant majority of editors believe that this article should not be featured on Wikipedia, I would tend to believe that there's not much to gain disputing over this article. Do come back for any further assistance. Thanks. Lourdes  01:20, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your answer. But I know what I am doing. MonsterHunter has won. I will soon log out of Wikipedia and will never ever edit it anymore. One edit mistake, and yes, I know that a made a mistake with adding "attack" into it, and he got full bully. Claiming I was edit warring and now he claims I have "been engaged in disruptive behavior for a long time" and claiming he will find much more about me. Well, I am done here. But thank you. Good to know, that there are some nice users here <3 ... but I have cried out and I know I will never come back. Farewell my friend.--Rævhuld (talk) 01:25, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Please also note this about User:Rævhuld, the complaint against him in the past where a user noted his block for disruptive behavior at German Wikipedia. He also baselessy accused me of being a sockpuppet of a disruptive editor who removed some of the complaints. On his talk page, he dismissed my comments falsely as harassment even though I never did that: Here even though I only told him not to falsely accuse anyone and here despite me only notifying him of my complaint at ANI against him. He also falsely accused the administrator User:NeilN of cyber bullying despite him only asking a of why he awarded stars to himself, instead of just answering or avoiding if he didn't wish to. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 01:32, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * This really belongs at WP:ANI. I see has indicated they are going to stop editing here. That may be a good course of action for the time being as the time spent dealing with their problematic edits seems to be increasing. --Neil N  talk to me 01:58, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

how to add to existing to list of malaysian swimmer ?
I was one but not included in the list. Name: Lim Cheik Sung represented Malaysia 1969 in SEAP games in Rangoon. one silver 3 bronzes. Source is Wikipedia SEAP games 1969 swimming results — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ellimb (talk • contribs) 06:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, welcome to Wikipedia. Your name is already represented in our article Aquatics at the 1969 Southeast Asian Games. However, the article mentions you to have won a silver and two bronze medals (and not three). If you could confirm the categories in which you won the bronze, I could check for the reference. Additionally, you also feature in the Malaysian National Sports Awards list. Thanks. Lourdes  09:02, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The string "list of Malaysian swimmers" does not occur in Wikipedia. If you refer to Category:Malaysian male swimmers then a category can only contain Wikipedia pages and you do not have your own page. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:26, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Editing the first part of A biography
Hi Just looking at the Bio for the singer Engelbert Humperdink and noticed that it says "is an English pop singer" - Sorry this is incorrect - he cannot be 'English' as he wasn't born in England, like me he is British therefore it should be amended to read "is a British pop singer"

However I cannot find a way to correct this - Help please.

Cheers

Djerlibeybi (talk) 09:03, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello . While sources that I have reviewed refer to the subject both as an English and a British singer, the appropriate place to have this discussion is the talk page of the article. You could click here to start a new discussion on the article's talk page about changing the details about the singer. Come back here in a week or so after posting, if nobody objects to the suggested change. One of us will assist you in inserting the change in the article. Thanks. Lourdes  09:25, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * English or British is a controversial issue. See Nationality of people from the United Kingdom. Engelbert Humperdinck (singer) says "His family moved to Leicester, England, when he was ten." Many call him English. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:18, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The situation is particularly problematic when the person is (as in this case) born to parents who themselves are English (despite any ultimate descent) but happen to be out of the UK on a military posting when the person was born. I myself was born in England to English parents, but could easily have been born in any one of several overseas countries (including three that I subsequently lived in) had my father's career gone slightly differently: had that been the case, however, I would be outraged by the suggestion that I was not English. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.60.183 (talk) 00:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, a lot of people Irl seem to share that concern, curiously. &mdash;  O Fortuna   semper crescis, aut decrescis  09:42, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Place of birth may be relevant to citizenship/nationality, but it is of no relevance to a person's ethnicity. British is a nationality, English is (since 1700) not a nationality, it's just an ethnic identity. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:58, 21 May 2017 (UTC)