Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2017 September 20

= September 20 =

EBSCO access
I currently have access to EBSCO via Wikipedia. I understand that this access expires after one year. Is that correct, and can I apply for access again once my current access has expired? FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 01:26, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes . I have EBSCO access through Wikipedia. I too will apply if the registration expires. Thanks.  Lourdes  14:26, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Kindly make my write up an encyclopedia article
Kindly make my write up an encyclopedia article:

Dr. Abdul Ruff Colachal is a columnist in English language on international politics. Abdul Ruff focuses on international relations with focus on foreign policy. He regularly contributes articles to intentional newspapers and journals like 'Foreign Policy News', 'Modern Diplomacy', 'South Asian Journal', 'India Forward', 'Kashmir Watch'. 'Indian Muslim Observer'. Dr. Abdul Ruff teaches English and Russian. He has a Ph. D in literature and has traveled widely in India and abroad. He has been critical of Indian HIndutva politics, Islamophobia, state arrogance and state terror operations against humanity. References[edit]

1. Indian Politics: Implications Of AAP Win In Delhi By-Poll – OpEd: [1] 2. China, Russia support North Korea, urge USA for talks at UN: [2] 3. 70 years of Kashmir under Indian occupation: [3] 4. From Afghanistan to World War III: [4] 5. Self-purification: Purpose of Holy Hajj: [5] 6. Post coup foreign policy of Turkey!: [6] 7. Bangladesh–Malaysia relations - Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh–Malaysia_relations Bangladesh–Malaysia relations refers to the relations between the two countries. Both enjoy .... Jump up to: Dr. Abdul Ruff Colachal (7 May 2008). 8. Corruption, liquor, price rise, unemployment and Hindutva - issues in Tamil Nadu poll 2016!: http://www.asiantribune.com/node/88923 9. India expands presence in Indian Ocean Region, offering military help: http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2015/03/india-expands-presence-in-indian-ocean.html 10. Politics of Emerging World by Abdul Ruff Colachal: Dictus Publishing: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/Politics-Emerging-World-Abdul-Ruff-Colachal/13031025819/bd 11. From Afghanistan to World War III - The Middle East Times - International: https://mideast-times.com/left_news.php?newsid=6635 12. Nepal reclaims lands from India - Pakistan Defence: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/nepal-reclaims-lands-from-india.20826/ 13. US and the new UN chief: http://archive.thedailystar.net/2006/12/08/d612081503108.htm 14.Turkey elections: http://archive.thedailystar.net/2007/07/24/d707241503155.htm. 15. UNSC votes to end Israeli settlements: What next? - Holiday: http://www.weeklyholiday.net/Homepage/Pages/UserHome.aspx?ID=5&date=12/30/2016 16. Islam: The Spiritual Message of Ramadan Fasting: http://www.newageislam.com/islam-and-spiritualism/islam--the-spiritual-message-of-ramadan-fasting/d/97917 Jump up ^ "Indian Politics: Implications Of AAP Win In Delhi By-Poll – OpEd". 1 September 2017. Jump up ^ "China, Russia support North Korea, urge USA for talks at UN". Jump up ^ Ruff, Dr. Abdul. "70 years of Kashmir under Indian occupation". Jump up ^ "From Afghanistan to World War III - KashmirWatch". 10 September 2017. Jump up ^ "Self-purification: Purpose of Holy Hajj". 1 September 2017. Jump up ^ Colachal, Abdul Ruff (2017-08-03). "Post coup foreign policy of Turkey!". Indian Muslim Observer. Retrieved 2017-09-10. —

Preceding unsigned comment added by Colachal (talk • contribs) 02:35, 20 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Colachal, it's not clear what you're asking. This page is for asking questions about using Wikipedia, not for posting draft articles. Please read Your first article for general information. If you have any specific questions, feel free to return here or visit the Teahouse, a forum especially for new users. Rivertorch   FIRE WATER   03:11, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

My Page has not been published
I have created a page & submitted for review but it has been almost 4 weeks and the page has not been published. I would appreciate if you could look into this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Dr._Abdulrazzaq_Al_Madani — Preceding unsigned comment added by MCIdubai (talk • contribs) 06:58, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * There is a currently long queue for the review process. When Draft:Dr._Abdulrazzaq_Al_Madani does get reviewed, if it's still in its current state, it will certainly be rejected, as it cites no sources at all. It does list some sources, but these all seem to be about what Dr. Al-Madani has said rather than what others have said about him, and so do not help to establish that he is notable enough to be the subject of an article. Maproom (talk) 07:10, 20 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Also need to know if MCIdubai is officially connected with MCI Dubai and is drafting this as part of his official function. Aspro (talk) 14:34, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Admiral John C. Harvey, Jr Wikipedia page
Could you please remove my signature from the page? I'm very uncomfortable with having that seen in such a public forum! Thank you, John C. Harvey, Jr Admiral, US Navy (Ret) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.36.82 (talk) 14:01, 20 September 2017‎ (UTC)
 * I've removed it on the grounds that the signature was gathered from a primary source instead of a secondary source. There is no consensus as to whether we should include signatures or not, but it's reasonable to not include any signatures that only appear in primary sources. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:07, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Can you or a Commons admin take a look at the uploader's contributions on Commons? I only had time for a quick look but it seems like that user has maybe been doing pretty much the same thing with other persons' signatures... Shearonink (talk) 14:29, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * "If a person (or a representative of) requests that their signature be removed from an article, the signature should be removed, and the OTRS team should be notified." -- Signatures of living persons
 * John C. Harvey, I would advise also sending an email to one of the addresses listed at Contact OTRS. They can delete the signature from the page history. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:40, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Shearonink, pulling signatures from primary documents is pretty common practice. In fact, where else would you normally get them from? I see no problem with removing the signature on request, as we do fairly commonly with fairly mundane personal details like real names and birthdays when the subject expresses concern, and the removal isn't detrimental to the article. But the use of a primary source for an image is not really a big deal (indeed official DoD photos may be considered primary, and we use millions of those), especially since this self-published letter apparently falls under WP:SELFPUB.  T J W  talk   14:45, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Also Guy Macon, the content probably wouldn't qualify for revdel, since is it unquestionably public information, from a public open letter, to a public official, from another public official. Removing it from the infobox is merely a courtesy.  T J W  talk   14:47, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Aye, while the removal from the visible text could be done as a courtesy (I forget which part of BLP discusses such requests) but the case for revision deletion is thin. Incidentally, a signature is not No original research so it does not need to come from a secondary source, just from a reliable one. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:58, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:BLPPRIVACY, at least in spirit.  T J W  talk   15:10, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree that pulling sigs from primary docs is a common practice but I was just thinking it might be advisable to look through the various sigs that Commons editor has been posting to see if any other subject has raised similar issues - that's all. And yeah, agree that removing the sig from public view is about as much as we can do at this point. Shearonink (talk) 19:03, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Have you ever seen one thing that seems like a little thing but the more you look the more turns into a tar baby? That's how I feel with this signature thread. I initially only skimmed the discussion but then I saw two editors suggest that "the content probably wouldn't qualify for revdel" and "the case for revision deletion is thin". That presumably was in response to the comment by that an email to OTRS might result in deletion of the signature from the page history. I'll start with my puzzlement that revision deletion would even be an issue. I accept that looking on recent revisions of the article will display the signature, but using revision deletion seems like the wrong tool. I think deletion of the image is the right tool, which I'll get back to in a minute.

I'm troubled that John C Harvey Jr. has written to the Wikipedia helpdesk requesting removal, and a reasonable person would interpret the response "I removed it…" as thinking that the signature has been removed. Yes, it has been removed from the page but it is still in existence as a Commons image. Presumably, the subject isn't objecting to the signature being connected to the page about him, but the fact that the signature is available and might be used inappropriately. We've done very little to respond to that concern, and in fact we left the impression that we've responded to it.

I next looked at the link provided by, which linked to Signatures of living persons. That's where we see the advice that the "Wikipedia:OTRS team should be notified". As an OTRS agent, my next question was "why is OTRS being notified?" I looked to see who added the advice to the page as it simply says that the team should be notified but doesn't give any guidance on what that notification message should contain. Unfortunately, it was added by an editor who hasn't edited since 2011. I have a guess — one of the things that OTRS does is verify identity and we certainly wouldn't want to respond to a request from an anonymous editor without knowing their identity (although we just did). Except that's a guess — the instructions don't indicate why OTRS should be contacted, and if my guess is correct, it's moot in this case because the removal was made without confirmation of identity.

is the editor who suggested contacting OTRS, but in the context of that sentence, it doesn't seem to be an identification issue it seems to be about revision deletion. While many OTRS agents can do revision deletion, that's not the first port of call for revision deletion requests, they should go to oversight in general (arguably you can contact an admin if you are certain that it would never qualify for suppression, but best practices are to contact oversight and let them make the call. In full disclosure, I've nominated myself for oversight so that helps explain my interest in this issue. ).

I'll also note the page at the link is not policy, not even a guideline but a guidance essay. (I generally support the advice.) The essay supports deletion, but I will note that the essay wasn't used as the rationale for deletion. I'm troubled by the lack of an explanation in that essay for the contact to be sent to OTRS but I'll take that up on the essay talk page.

I'm more troubled by the fact that the essay makes the strong statement "concerns about privacy and identity theft make it imperative that signatures be removed upon the request of the subject." I'm not troubled by the advice per se, as I think it is sound, but it is an essay in Wikipedia and the signature itself is in Commons. Removal of the signature from the article page is only one small step if the goal is identity theft. The more important step is removing it from Commons. At a minimum, the essay ought to discuss this issue and talk about how that step should be taken, but again that's a subject for the talk page of that essay not necessarily something that should be acted on at the help desk.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  23:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Regardless of WP policy/guidelines I am personally uncomfortable with Wikipedia/Wikimedia/Commons providing easy access to living persons' signatures. Yes, yes, I know that if someone signs a letter as part of governmental communication then FOI/etc...but *still*. Shearonink (talk) 01:01, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it's, in general, excellent that the US federal government has decided that works of federal employees should be public domain, but I wonder if they thought through the implications of effectively making signatures of living people public domain.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  01:06, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * For my part, I was simply repeating the "Wikipedia:OTRS team should be notified" advice without giving it a lot of thought. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:58, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * And I have now posted to the essay talk page, asking, among other things, for someone to explain what that advice means.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  01:04, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Reference citation looks like a comment from the articles editor
What am I missing? The wiki page about John Tierney, New York Times Columnist's bio has a reference citation (#5 that looks like a comment from the article's editor. Its a statement that would seem to need its own reference for authority of quote or proof.  I'm not sure if that is what I'm seeing or if I'm just uneducated and missing something about how the page is supposed to work?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheltonkeithcandy (talk • contribs) 16:15, 20 September 2017 (UTC)


 * It's a quote from ref 4. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:21, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Ahh. I hadn't spotted that. I just deleted it as unreferenced. Maproom (talk) 16:24, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * And now that I've looked at ref 4, I see that the quote appears be be written by Tierney, so not an independent source. I'll leave it deleted, but I shan't mind if someone undeletes it. Maproom (talk) 16:28, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Non-official language in city infobox head
In the article Beirut, the French name is listed alongside the Arabic name in the infobox head. Since French is not an official language of Lebanon, but is a second language, shouldn't it be enough to list the French name in the opening sentence of the article and not in the infobox head? e.g. Tétouan and Meknes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarook97 (talk • contribs) 17:01, September 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, per WP:INFOBOXGEO, the infobox head may contain such alternate names. If you feel strongly about it, start a discussion at Talk:Beirut. Come back if you need more help. Cheers.  Lourdes  17:08, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Total number of bytes added/removed by an editor
Is there any way to see the total number of bytes I've added or removed across all articles over my entire Wikipedia history? Just curious. Popcornduff (talk) 18:27, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * There's an old thread at the Village Pump asking a similar question, with no good answer. It would be possible to estimate from the X!'s tools edit counter if the "Ø change per page" parameter didn't always seem to read "extended". You might try directly asking one of the tool developers listed at the bottom of the edit counter page (non-beta version). Rivertorch   FIRE WATER   21:01, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Help needed to find a source
Dear editors: While recovering some dead links to the Canadian Encyclopedia, I came across this article: Shaun Going, which depends substantially on an article in Maclean's magazine which was republished at the Canadian Encyclopedia website. The link at the encyclopedia has been redirected to an article about the Trailer Park Boys. I've tried searching the Canadian Encyclopedia for the article title and for the subject's name. I've looked at the Wayback Machine and Archive.is to find the article. Does anyone have another idea for how I can find this article? Or should I just mark it as a dead link and move on?&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 19:00, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, hope you're well. The Maclean's archives lists only three articles (all published in the year 2000) that contain the term "Shaun Going". (Highbeam has not archived the full version of these articles, only two or three paragraphs). You could take a trial membership of the Maclean's archival service and cancel it without charge once you've the checked the full text of the three articles. Thanks.  Lourdes  03:53, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . That's a good idea.&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 04:33, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

My profile
I want to creat my profile — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohammed faheem uddin (talk • contribs) 19:09, 20 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Hey Mohammed faheem uddin. It looks like you've already found your user page, which is the closest thing to a "profile" there is on Wikipedia. Other than that, this is a place for encyclopedia articles on subjects that meet our standards for notability, which generally means receiving sustained in-depth coverage in reliable sources, usually things like books, magazines and newspapers.  G M G  talk   19:59, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Copyright issues
Hi, You guys are using my photo yo display Fresno, California and I was never asked permission - please contact me for the right to use my photo

Rodney Gavroian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1010:B111:5B38:80DB:E75C:42F5:A13F (talk) 22:15, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

I assume you are talking about Fresno, California page, if so can you advise us which picture is suppose to be yours? NZ Footballs Conscience (talk)
 * Please do not include phone numbers. If there is a need to make a telephone call, we'll figure out how to get that information privately to someone but this is too public a place to post your phone number.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  00:14, 21 September 2017 (UTC)