Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2017 September 5

= September 5 =

Can someone reset my sandbox
I want my sandbox to be reset but I want link to the Drone Racing League to be left there. (But then again it might have already been reset since that seems to be the only thing in there [and in that case, I'm stupid]) Ramesty (talk) 02:13, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I've taken out the redirect and left the link in your sandbox. Warmly.  Lourdes  02:32, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Adding citations, Footnotes, and References
Please help me, I have drafted an article which is now in queue for the review. Meanwhile, I like to add citations, footnotes, and Reference to the article to finalize it. I really can't find proper instruction in a Wikipedia page to do this, Please help me, to improve the article by adding citations, footnotes, and reference and remove the template on the top of the article Thank you rane2030Rane2030 (talk) 02:47, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello Rane2030. One page that you may find helpful is Citing sources. If any of what you read there is confusing, feel free to come back here and ask specific questions. Rivertorch   FIRE WATER   03:20, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Brian Edwards
Good evening,

I just noticed my clients page has been deleted. I'm not sure why? The page has been active for over two years (after a few initial problems to my understanding by previous folks who posted it) but since he's been my client, the page has been fine.

Any help in having this page reinstated would be most appreciated. I'm not sure how any of this works. I had to create this account to be able to contact you for help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Brian_Edwards_(author)

Thank you,

Pamela Davis — Preceding unsigned comment added by PG Productions Inc (talk • contribs)
 * the article was moved at least once before being deleted. The most recent version was at Brian Edwards (publicist). Maproom (talk) 07:52, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Please be aware,, that the article was never at any time "your client's page", and that neither he nor you had any proper role in relation to it beyond making suggestions on the article's talk page. See WP:OWN and WP:PROMOTION. --ColinFine (talk) 09:33, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Please also be aware that (a) you didn't need to create an account to post here (notice that I myself am posting from an IP address, not an account); (b) the name of your account is contrary to Wikipedia policy (because it appears to represent an organisation rather than an individual) and is liable to be deleted; and (c) as you are editing on behalf of a client, you should also read Paid. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.204.180.96 (talk) 17:30, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Best way to toggle sidebar for reading
I'm trying to figure out the best way to toggle the sidebar (the navigation menu) for reading purposes. Some browsers have a "reader's view" that hides elements not-related to the text but Firefox's reader's view dramatically alters the way the page looks. I've also made a bookmarklet that can toggle the sidebar but it doesn't collapse the space so it doesn't do what I want. I've looked in the preferences for a gadget that does this but didn't see one. Ideas? Jason Quinn (talk) 07:03, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * User scripts/List shows User:PleaseStand/Hide Vector sidebar and User:Blue-Haired Lawyer/Wide Skin. "Mobile view" at the bottom of desktop pages has no sidebar but also omits other things and makes other changes. The bottom of mobile pages have a "Desktop" link. The MinervaNeue skin at Special:Preferences is similar but not identical to mobile view. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:32, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * THANK YOU! This was just what I needed. I did tweak the code to have the sidebar shown by default instead of hidden by default. And I gave it a better name. New version is at User:Jason Quinn/toggle-vector-sidebar.js. Thank you again. Wish I had this a long time ago. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:56, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * You may wonder why it doesn't render like a js page. You created it at a name ending in ".js:" and moved it to ".js". This meant it kept the original page content model "wikitext". I suggest you click "Page information" and change the page content model to "JavaScript" (only administrators can do this). "wikitext" doesn't prevent the code from working but the page looks odd. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:24, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you again! Fixed. Never knew you could do that. Learn something new every day. That colon really threw me off for a bit! Took me a while to even notice it was there. Jason Quinn (talk) 19:19, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

International Phonetic Alphabet
I need advice here, please. I have explained something of the problem on the Talk page. User Sweyn78 has made what appear to be far-reaching changes to the article on International Phonetic Alphabet. I am unable to judge, just looking at the edits that have been made, exactly what has been changed, and for what reason. If the changes are in fact for the best, it would be a pity to remove them, but I feel that people should explain on the Talk page what they intend to do, so that other editors can comment. I suspect that this person has just made changes for the sake of neatness, rather than for improved treatment of phonetic theory. There is a particular problem with this particular topic. Some years ago there was a rather abrasive argument between people like me (connected with the International Phonetic Association) who regard the International Phonetic Alphabet as an agreed scientific framework that has been developed over more than a century by the top phonetic experts in the world, and others who expressed the opinion than any WP editor could feel free to alter the Alphabet and its Chart in any way they saw fit, if they thought they could improve on what the IPA had evolved. I am worried that the current editing is leading us down the same path. RoachPeter (talk) 15:44, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Your discussion on the talk page and your plan seem fine to me. I would also suggest you personally invite the user to the discussion. Seems like business as usual. Cheers, Jason Quinn (talk) 15:51, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * For reference, the series of edits can be seen here.
 * , I see you have started a discussion on the talk page already. That is indeed the way to go.
 * I cannot judge the bottom of the dispute, and probably neither can editors from the Help Desk. I can only say that if (as you seem to say) the edits by were an attempt to put "their" system in an article about a particular system, this is wrong on multiple counts (first, our no original research policy, and second, such a change must be based on reliable sources).
 * I just have twopoints of detail that you might want to keep in mind next time:


 * 1) You wrote "@Sweyn78", probably under the belief it would alert the editor. This is not the case; see WP:PING for the correct way to do so (in short: link to the username, for instance with the template and sign the post with four tildes). I have pinged them in this post.
 * 2) You could have reverted the edits immediately if you thought it was in the interest of the article, before starting a discussion. A respected principle of edition is "bold (edit), revert, discuss" (rather than "bold, revert, discuss"). Reverting should not be seen as an aggressive actions, rather as an invitation to discussion. Notice that reverting an edit generates an alert to the reverted contributor.
 * For very technical discussions where participation is scarce because of a lack of expertise, it is usually best to find a relevant WikiProject and alert them (here, WikiProject Linguistics seems relevant). It does not seem necessary yet, though, as discussion has not even started. Tigraan Click here to contact me 16:05, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I hope I haven't caused any trouble. This was my first major edit to Wikipedia (although I have been using MediaWiki markup for 7 years now, and am also a junior web developer), and I spent two entire days trying to get everything just right.  Maybe I don't understand how things are done here;  I figured you just rolled up your sleeves and got to work improving things.
 * Wikipedia was a huge help to me when I first started getting into Linguistics 7 years ago. I wanted to give something back to it.  I love phonetics, but the phonetics templates were poorly written, visually inconsistent with the rest of Wikipedia, and some even had incorrect information (Template:IPA chart/table co-articulated consonants, for example, had the alveolo-palatal fricatives listed as co-articulated;  Template:Consonants, on the other hand, not only had a more complete listing, but did not have this error (although it *did* have an error of its own:  /ɧ/ was listed as an occlusive).).  I saw also that there was an enormous reduplication of effort, with every table at Template:IPA chart being separately implemented at Template:Consonants.
 * So, I got to work. I rewrote everything from scratch, making sure to preserve the template variables, such as making it possible to hide non-IPA.  I went through the articles of every sound in the various tables, and verified that it was phonemic in at least one language (or that it at least had significant para/extra-linguistic use), and that it was correctly written.  The retroflex clicks, for example, were unnecessarily using a non-IPA symbol in Template:IPA chart/table non-pulmonic consonants.  And now, instead of having to edit two completely different templates whenever something needs changing, everything can be changed at one place, and propogated throughout the site.
 * The templates I made are a huge improvement over the originals in design and coding, and are far more easily extensible. The originals were littered with invalid CSS (such as "width" parameters being placed in "style=" instead of on their own).  The vowel chart didn't even line up with the heights!  The originals were also unminified, and Template:Consonants wasn't even using Template:IPA link.
 * I'm happy to fix whatever problems there may be with the templates I wrote, but they are absolutely an improvement, and the user-facing changes are almost entirely cosmetic.
 * 20:21, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Here are some links that will help you compare the different versions:
 * Vowels | Original | Revised
 * Co-articulated consonants | Original | Revised
 * Pulmonic consonants | Original | Revised
 * Non-pulmonic consonants | Original | Revised
 * Template:IPA consonant chart | This one, I replaced with the above templates. I have yet to rewrite Template:IPA_chart/table_affricate_consonants, but I plan(ned) to.
 * 21:24, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * since you seem to have started to discuss, maybe you should take it to the talk page of the article (Talk:International Phonetic Alphabet). No need to duplicate the discussion. Tigraan Click here to contact me 11:10, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

citation parity ?
What is "citation parity"? Is there wikipedia guidance, as I didn't find it on Manual of Style? X1\ (talk) 19:52, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll the user so they can hopefully answer for you.  C T F 8 3 !   20:10, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * What is "@" ? X1\ (talk) 20:21, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The "@" indicates that CTF83 used the ping template or a variant to contact DrStrauss.  General Ization  Talk   20:23, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, the rest of the website name parameters were in URL form, not wikilink, I just thought I'd get that consistent. I'm not sure if they're supposed to be raw anyway, I'll check the relevant pages (H:CS1 and WP:COINS).  Thank you for your contributions!  Thanks for the ping     Dr Strauss   talk   20:15, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It was "website=", not "url=", to be clear. The word "parity" threw me.  X1\ (talk) 20:25, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Help coding Wikidata into template
I am trying to edit the  parameter in Template:Ordination/sandbox. Currently, the value entered in the parameter determines the color of the top area according to the rules specified in Template:Ordination/color. When nothing is entered, a default color occurs. I would like to make it so that a value can still be entered for  and when none is entered, the Wikidata value for "religion" (P140) is called, which then determines the color according to the template. I would also like for the Wikidata call to be suppressable using. When either (1) no local value is entered for  and there is no Wikidata value for P140, or (2)   is used, the default color should occur. I cannot seem to get this to work (as can be seen at Template:Ordination/testcases). Any help would be much appreciated.  Ergo Sum  20:15, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * First, you should use Module:Wikidata instead of Module:WikidataIB because you need a raw value, not a wikilinked one. Then you can not test wikidata fetching on the testcases page because it uses the actual name of the page to get the corresponding Wikidata item. So, now the Ordination/sandbox works if you test it on an actual page. Ruslik_ Zero 18:00, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your helpful edits. The one problem that remains, though, is that the template color does not default to the specified default color. E.g. at Template:Ordination/testcases, the right template should be the default color, not blank, because nothing is being pulled from Wikidata. Do you know how to fix that? Ergo Sum  21:54, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * As I said above you can not use Template:Ordination/testcases to test Wikidata related staff. Ruslik_ Zero 19:16, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I get that. Which is why on the testcases page, the color should be the default that is specified in Template:Ordination/color, since no value is returned by Wikidata. That's what I don't know how to do. Also, I tested the wikitext that you added to the sandbox on a mainspace article and the appropriate color did not return.  Ergo Sum  20:52, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Would you care to continue this discussion at Template talk:Ordination?  Ergo Sum  20:53, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

2017-18 Saturday Morning Schedule
Can You Move the 2017-18 Saturday Morning schedule article from the talk article to the draft article page please. I would accept it please. 2600:8803:7A00:976A:F540:3792:BE67:176A (talk) 20:22, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Can you please provide a link to the page? I can't seem to find it under your edit history. Thanks! Daylen (talk) 00:08, 6 September 2017 (UTC)