Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2017 September 6

= September 6 =

Sortable Wikitables: How to "bypass" or override/alter the sorting ability?
What is the correct wiki-code to use when you want an item in a sorting list to sort differently than as it appears? For example, the entry is "The Simpsons", but I want it to sort as "Simpsons". I want it to sort under "S" for "Simpsons" and not under "T" for "The". Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:25, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * See these instructions - X201 (talk) 07:59, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Yeah, thanks. I had already seen that material.  But, it did not work for me.  Plus, those instructions -- as Wikipedia instructions usually are -- are very difficult to understand and to follow/execute.     Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:55, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * If you cannot follow the instructions then we can do it for you but that obviously requires that you reveal the page. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:43, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Here is the page: List of current United States governors by age.  This relates to the entry on the Governor of American Samoa.  His name is Lolo Matalasi Moliga.  He does not have an exact birthday available.  So:  Number One: I am not sure how to do the "calculations" for his entries in the (now) empty spaces of the chart.  (I would rather have the Wikipedia "code" calculate the correct values, as opposed to just manually entering in the values.   These values will change over time.)  And, Number Two:  I don't know how to get these entries to sort correctly within the chart.  Thanks.    Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * So the challenge is that we don't know what the sort key should be or what the cell should display. That is not what your Simpsons example indicated. The instructions linked above assume that the sort key is known and written manually. The other people in List of current United States governors by age use templates to calculate a sort key based on a known birth date. The templates assume the dates are known and produce a special sort key with a complicated format. That made it tricky but [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_current_United_States_governors_by_age&diff=799308667&oldid=799094318] seems OK to me. I suggest you don't try to learn from the code. It was a special situation. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:47, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes, there are a lot of challenges. I had not planned to get "into" all those details, originally.  Which is why I never revealed the name of the page (at first).  In any event, I thought that there was some generic code that allows me to sort on some other value than what the actual cell entry is.  Which is what my original question was trying to get at. (Hence, the simple "The Simpsons" example.)  Thanks.  Now, back to the article and your "back-door" fix.  I believe that I see that you entered Governor Maliga's birthday as January 01. (I think?)  Is that correct?  If yes, won't that "screw up" the age calculations?  They won't be accurate.  They will just be "accurate" as if he were indeed born on January 1.  No?   Thanks.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:36, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The displayed age in my edit [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_current_United_States_governors_by_age&diff=799308667&oldid=799094318] is calculated by Age in years. I only gave 1949 with no date so an interval like 67–68 is displayed. Note that there is no count of days. But the sorting has to sort him somewhere and the used template Age in days requires a full date so I gave January 1. I used ntsh to generate a sort key compatible with the other rows. "h" in the name is for hidden so the calculated age in days is not displayed. There are currently no other people within a year of his age at inauguration or current age so he will sort correctly no matter what. If another person close to his age is entered then he will sort as if he was born 1 January 1949. This may or may not give the correct sorting. The whole problem is that we don't know what the correct sorting is. It would be impractical to indicate that the correct sort order between two rows is unknown. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:26, 7 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all the work and efforts in addressing the several challenges here. Much appreciated.  Alas, it may be all for naught.  I received an email indicating that his birth date is  August 12, 1947. (Not 1949!)  So, ultimately, I will be placing that information into the articles.  Once I can "pin it down" as a reliable source.  Thanks again for all your efforts.  And for your explanations.  And for resolving the issue.  As I said, it may end up being all for naught, if this "correct" birthday pulls through.  Thank you.    Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:23, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Help me disable Beta Feature: Wikitext syntax highlighting
I need help disabling this feature. I have already tried Special:Preferences &mdash;አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 07:07, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Did you click the save button at the bottom of the page? - X201 (talk) 07:55, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, the box is unchecked and settings saved. But for some reason my browser is stuck in this feature. I have also tried clearing my cache. &mdash;አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 08:12, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * There is currently a bug, where if you also have the "Automatically enable all new beta features" checked, that for some reason it seems impossible to disable certain beta features. So temporarily unchecking both, then saving, then turning the "automatically enable all new beta features" on again, is a workaround for this problem. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 08:15, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Can I ask to be intentionally blocked?
I just don't want to be part of this anymore. I am not helping. I am so useless what is the point. No one cares about me. --Geoist-polist (talk) 08:48, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * , there is NOTHING low-key about this--that's right, it's so racist I rev-deleted this. If you had reported this, we could have prevented this. Drmies (talk) 15:51, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

How do I get Cluebot to work when embedded inside a template?
I'm guessing that my talk page is no longer being archived periodically as I've moved the archiver's template call into a talkpageheader template that I transclude into my talk page. Is there any way to get this to work? Or does the archiver bot's template absolutely have to be on the page that needs to be archived? Thanks.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 11:33, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

I should note that the Archives template which is also transcluded works fine.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 11:45, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The archiving instructions have to be in the talk page itself, as the bots read the page without expanding any transclusions. -- John of Reading (talk) 11:58, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I guess I'm going to have to put up with some clutter.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 12:05, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Help:Cite errors/Cite error included ref
what is this the wikipedia people r very baad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.178.86.195 (talk) 13:56, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * This appears to relate to Summer where unconstructive edits by the OP (reverted) resulted in the error message. Eagleash (talk) 14:14, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Adam Saleh - self-promotional additions to wikipage
The wikipage for Adam Saleh, a you tube prankster, was recently edited by an editor named Adamsaleh2017 who has only edited this article. His/her edits appear to be solely self-promotional (regarding a new album) as the only sources are Saleh's twitter feeds and vlogs. Should this be removed as self-promotional? Saleh is otherwise notable for his pranks. I added a conflict of interest tag.Patapsco913 (talk) 15:54, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, why is the name of his article in italics? I tried to remove the italics, but I was unable to do so.  How did the italics get there, in the first place?  I did not see any "code" or such to add the italics.   Does anyone know?   Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:12, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Presumably because Template:Infobox album has been used within the article. --David Biddulph (talk) 17:16, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Fixed that. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:19, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:12, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete & SALT: Haven't we had enough of this? Even the article's creator is currently again: Special:Contributions/Musa_Raza, and with sock-puppets and single-user-accounts galore. We don't have time to help promote this raper to notability, police the article, and sort out badly added promo material. This is not WP is for. SALT ! Aspro (talk) 18:15, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Inserting a link
I need to insert a link in my edited new material The Monroe Flash (talk) 17:52, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Appears to relate to :- (I have removed the stray ref tags). Eagleash (talk) 18:09, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Unable to move pages that have blank target pages
For example, I can't move Uruguay–Argentina 2030 FIFA World Cup bid to Uruguay–Argentina–Paraguay 2030 FIFA World Cup bid or Morocco 2026 FIFA World Cup Bid to Morocco 2026 FIFA World Cup bid. Why is this?  mg  SH 21:53, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't know why you couldn't do the latter; I've just done it.  I had previously set up a redirect from Uruguay–Argentina–Paraguay 2030 FIFA World Cup bid but I did suggest that it might now be a reasonable title; you should be able to move to it. --David Biddulph (talk) 22:11, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, I still cannot do it. I wonder if an admin might be able to explain and move.  mg  SH 22:31, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * What goes wrong when you try to move it? I could just do it (I assume) but I wonder what your problem is. Does Special:MovePage/Uruguay–Argentina 2030 FIFA World Cup bid work for you? PrimeHunter (talk) 22:56, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The link works, but filling in the fields and clicking 'Move page' takes me back to the same page, which says the below. The page titles aren't teh same, the page does not already exist, and the page name is valid, so I don't understand what's going on!

''You do not have permission to move this page, for the following reasons:

''Source and destination titles are the same; cannot move a page over itself. ''The page could not be moved: a page of that name already exists, or the name you have chosen is not valid.

''Please choose another name, or use Requested moves to ask an administrator to help you with the move.

Do not manually move the article by copying and pasting it; the page history must be moved along with the article text.  mg  SH 23:02, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The message indicates you didn't change the New title field but left the existing title there. I moved it without problems. I used my non-admin alternative account PrimeHunter2 to ensure it could be moved by non-admins. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:20, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I used Firefox. What is your browser? Have you had problems with form data disappearing? PrimeHunter (talk) 23:23, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Chrome, and no. I'm 99.99% sure I did change the title, but oh well. Thanks for moving.  mg  SH 23:24, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Where should I ask for a re-assessment of an article?
Specifically the article about Billy Bishop. It seems properly sourced and well written. I'm not fluent in English though, or an expert Wikipedian, so it would be better to ask more experienced Wikipedians. I know that there are many WikiProjects associated to the subject, but wouldn't be a bit of a mess to contact all the wikiprojects related to it? User:Tetizeraz. Send me a ✉️ ! 23:55, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello, as the assessment has been done by various projects, if you wish re-assessment of any article, you should be following that respective project's assessment guidelines. For example, in the case of the Billy Bishop article, WikiProject Military history/Assessment would be helpful.
 * , who is the lead of that project, or its other members can assist you in understanding the same if something is not clear. Similar with other projects. In short, yes, you will have to refer to each separate project's assessment criteria, if you want to reassess that project's current assessment of the article. Please don't hesitate to ask any further query here. Warmly.  Lourdes  03:54, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, I noticed you focused on the wikiproject assessment of an article. What about the article assessment? You know, the shiny stars, good article, etc. What is the relationship between the wikiprojects assessment and a nomation of an article to a featured or good article? User:Tetizeraz. Send me a ✉️ ! 04:00, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:Good articles and WP:Featured articles represent some of our best work. WP:DYK too is an interesting area you can explore. Take it one at a time. If you wish to nominate any article to be a good article, first see the Good article criteria. You can start a discussion on Talk:Billy Bishop to involve other editors in your attempt to improve the article to GA status. Once you feel you and your fellow editors have improved the article to GA status, follow the procedure listed at Good article nominations/Instructions to nominate the article to GA status. If you have any problems in-between, feel free to come back here.  Lourdes  04:07, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * G'day, I've taken a quick look at the article and in its current state I feel it would still be C-class. It wouldn't be far off B-class, but would just need the "citation needed" tags replaced with reliable sources (similar to the other references already in the article). I can't comment specifically on content as I'm not knowledgable on this exact topic, but if you put it up for a peer review after adding the references, it might help get more eyes on it. After that, a Good Article assessment might be appropriate. Anyway, good luck with taking the article further. Thank you for your interest. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:05, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you all for the answers! :) User:Tetizeraz. Send me a ✉️ ! 10:52, 7 September 2017 (UTC)