Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2018 June 29

= June 29 =

I have a follow up question to the question I asked a few days ago
1. the User Lordes said I could add a reference to Botswana getting transgender rights in 2017 on the 2017 in LGBT rights but I can't because this other user named Mathglot said this when I asked them if I could do this: "No, you cannot use Wikipedia as a source in a footnote on another page. Since anyone can edit it, Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source, for the purpose of referencing." I need someone to help me on this. 2. Also can someone up date LGBT_rights_in_Tunisia page because it says on this page about homosexuality becoming legal in that country:https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/06/21/tunisia-president-decriminalise-homosexuality/ Sphinxmystery (talk) 00:03, 29 June 2018 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 01:02, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry there was a misunderstanding. wasn't saying that you should cite the LGBT rights in Botswana article itself, she was saying that you should look at what sources are cited in the  LGBT rights in Botswana article, find a source that applies to the text you added to 2017 in LGBT rights, and copy just that citation (the part in between the  tags) to the 2017 in LGBT rights article. Remember, all references must be to "reliable sources", as defined at Identifying reliable sources, and Mathglot was correct is saying that Wikipedia articles themselves are not considered reliable sources.
 * As to the Tunisia article, homosexuality has not yet been decriminalized. The president's commission has published a proposal to decriminalize it, but the proposal is expected to face strong opposition. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|TALK
 * Could someone please help me find a source LGBT rights in Botswana article? I can't do it on my own because I'm not computer savy and I'm not good at adding references. Sphinxmystery (talk) 01:17, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * You can read Help:Referencing for beginners. Cheers! Thinker78 (talk) 03:03, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Watchlist question
There are usually blue dots indicating which articles in a watchlist have been changed. I'm not seeing those dots, so I rely largely on email notifications. Can this issue be fixed? –Piranha249 02:17, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Special:Preferences has the options "Display green collapsible arrows and green bullets for changed pages in your watchlist, page history and recent changes" and "Display pages on your watchlist that have changed since your last visit in bold". Does that help? If not then maybe you have to clear your cache. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:46, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't have the issue in Firefox but somebody reported it in Chrome at Village pump (technical). It's always good to mention your browser and skin when you report interface issues. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:48, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I alternate between Firefox and Chrome, and found this issue in both. I wasn't sure where to address this, so I went here. –Piranha249 16:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

I need help please
Could someone please help me find a source LGBT rights in Botswana article? I can't do it on my own because I'm not computer savy and I'm not good at adding references. Sphinxmystery (talk) 05:37, 29 June 2018 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 01:49, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * See this edit. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|TALK

Draft article: how to submit for review?
I've created this draft article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:David_Kelso-Mitchell

But don't know how to submit it for review as a proper Wikipedia article. Can anyone help? UltraFlask (talk) 09:34, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Add the following template to the article: . Regards SoWhy 10:32, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * For the future (since PrimeHunter submitted that draft):, not . https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Submit&redirect=no has the notice.  Tigraan Click here to contact me 16:06, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Block Redditser
Is it possible to block Redditsir? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Redditsir He's busy deleting information from 2018 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles. I get tired of it, but I don't know how to request a block. Elizabeth&#39;94 (talk) 09:46, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, the user has been blocked. - see here . Thank you.  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 10:30, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * ✅ For future reference, blocks can be requested at Administrator intervention against vandalism if it involves clear-cut cases and Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents in other cases. Editors should not be reported before they have been sufficiently warned. Regards SoWhy</b> 10:29, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Most-watched video
Blackpink's ddu-du ddu-du should be in the list of most watched video in 24 hours. FIX IT! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.110.213.48 (talk) 10:06, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * There are discussions at Talk:List of most viewed online videos in the first 24 hours where editors are asking for more reliable sources. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:29, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Can I get feedback as to my article wad denied?
I wrote a article on a landmark court case, and it was denied for being to promotional for the attorney representing the "winning" side. I quoted both attorneys from the parties, and I used third-party sources. Can I get someone else's feedback and opinion? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Hudson_v._Lutheran_Social_Services_of_Illinois — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChicagoSHOUT (talk • contribs) 14:10, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The first thing to say is that this court case reeks of a local, non-lasting event unlikely to have lasting significance and thus unlikely to be accepted as a Wikipedia article, no matter how well-written.
 * This being said, I agree with the reviewer's assessment that your draft is loaded with non-neutral language. While I do not think it falls under speedy deletion because of its promotion of Deratany, certainly the press releases bring little encyclopedic information for the subject here. Furthermore, virtually every sentence has something against our guidelines - for example, the term landmark case would best be avoided (either you mean it as "huge, record-setting" and then it is WP:PEACOCK, or you mean it as "will greatly influence later decisions" in which case it is WP:CRYSTAL).
 * Since it is poor form to discuss in someone's back, I will ping . Tigraan <span title="Send me a silicium letter!" style="color:">Click here to contact me 15:43, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi All. Thank you for your input. I am happy to make those edits! I am just looking for feedback to improve my work. I am a new editor, and I am still learning all there is to Wikipedia. I will give it a good edit and address your concerns. Much Thanks, ChicagoSHOUT — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChicagoSHOUT (talk • contribs) 15:47, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * User:ChicagoSHOUT - On my first and second readings of your draft, it appeared to have been written very much from the viewpoint of Deratany. Just also mentioned Lutheran Social Services doesn't make it neutral.  I see that your draft has been toned down some now.  I seriously considered tagging your draft for speedy deletion, and decided instead to caution you that the tone was unacceptable and could result in deletion.  By the way, do you have a connection or affiliation with Deratany?  If so, it must be disclosed.  If not, please consider whether your writing style is giving neutral experienced editors reason to think that you have a conflict of interest.  Robert McClenon (talk) 18:37, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Robert, I do not. I am a civil rights case enthusiast. I was interested by this case when I saw it covered all over the news. I have most certainly tried to edit it to be as neutral as possible. It is just clearly the facts of the case and quotes from both parties on the situational outcome. Hopefully, you can see the neutrality of the article now.  — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned comment added by ChicagoSHOUT (talk • contribs) 19:01, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * User:ChicagoSHOUT - Unfortunately, no, I do not see the neutrality of the article. The tone of the article is not neutral.  It is either enthusiastic because of a special interest, or enthusiastic because of an overriding bias on the author's part, and I take it that it is the latter.  You will need to set your bias aside even more than you have done if you want the article accepted.  Also, there are still notability issues that were raised above.  Robert McClenon (talk) 21:10, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Who is playing with the rollback/undo tags?
A while back I inquired about the fact that edits made by the rollback and undo tools were being tagged appropriately on all MediaWiki sites. This is understandable for the most part. However, I have noticed that for a brief period in late March that a rollback was being tagged with undo as well as rollback, which makes things such as edit summaries messy. This would go away in early April (rollback edits became tagged only as rollback and not as an undo), but it has resumed again today. Would anyone be able to refer me to the admin who is monitoring these filters? Thanks, « « «  SOME GADGET GEEK  » » » (talk) 14:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Those tags are added automatically by MediaWiki when the tools are used and not by edit filters at the wiki. T190374 is about both the March and current issue. There is work to revert it. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:43, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Keeping talk page text from changing when a template changes
We are discussing a template and editing it while discussing. This makes the previous discussion make no sense since the template changed. How do I fixate the text so template changes wont change it, other than using subst? I remember there is a way to do this, but my mind comes blank. --Muhandes (talk) 15:28, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * In order to avoid the XY problem, can you give us an example of what you want to do that substitution will not achieve? Tigraan <span title="Send me a silicium letter!" style="color:">Click here to contact me 15:31, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * We are discussion changes in Single chart. Every substitution adds 85k to the talk page, as I did, which is obviously not going to work. I vaguely remember a few years back there was a way to fixate templates without subst, but this might be just my poor memory and good imagination. --Muhandes (talk) 15:41, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I assume that what you want is a substitution-like mechanism that evaluates all the #if and #switch etc. at the moment the page is saved, or a way to transclude from page history. I do not know a way to do either, but you should probably ask at WP:VPT. Obviously you can link to template history but that does not allow to demonstrate template rendering. Tigraan <span title="Send me a silicium letter!" style="color:">Click here to contact me 15:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll try there. --Muhandes (talk) 16:02, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

To produce:
 * try using your browser's "view source" function to view the HTML source and copying it. Using a template under discussion in an earlier disucussion of this help page as a example, I copied the following:

This appears to have almost worked. Note, however, hrefs will not work, by design. If you need to handle hrefs, I fear you will need to use screen captures. -Arch dude (talk) 16:49, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * So, we can tweak the HTML to produce the proper visual effect without using the href:

And get this:
 * -Arch dude (talk) 16:58, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Don't copy the html code. Links and some other things will not work when the html is saved as wikitext. You can copy the old wikitext to Special:ExpandTemplates instead. Note however that if other templates are called then the current version of those templates are used. That also applies to the html attempt, and to just viewing the old revision directly. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:08, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Display problems
When I am in the Wikipedia reference desk a question mark appears over my notifications. This hasn't happened before. I want to get rid of the question mark. When I am in desktop mode it goes to a different location but it drains the battery. Is there a better solution? (Mobile mundo (talk) 15:38, 29 June 2018 (UTC))


 * Here is a screenshot of what I mean. File:Screenshot of notifications fail.png (Mobile mundo (talk) 22:07, 29 June 2018 (UTC))
 * That is RefDesk help icon displaying in a bad position in mobile. By "drains the battery" do you mean the icon covers the battery icon? Surely the icon doesn't use more battery power. I have posted to Wikipedia talk:Reference desk. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:08, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * my interpretation of what is describing is that he is able to eliminate the improper question mark location by switching his browser's display of Wikipedia from the mobile view to the "desktop mode", which requires the use of (marginally) more computing power to load and render. --  HunterM267  talk 23:11, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, that makes more sense. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:13, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * is correct. Thanks for posting the other link. Sorry if this was the wrong location for my problem. (Mobile mundo (talk) 23:24, 29 June 2018 (UTC))
 * Posting here is fine when you don't know the cause. I have added an id [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:RefDesk_help_icon&diff=prev&oldid=848130790] so it can be hidden in mobile with the below in Special:MyPage/minerva.css. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:58, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * All that happened is that I created two subpages. I also tried copying and pasting the code beside I'd into the address bar but it failed to load. Thanks anyway. I'm going to log off now.(Mobile mundo (talk) 01:48, 30 June 2018 (UTC))
 * You created the right page at User:Mobile mundo/minerva.css but you saved the text "Test 1, 2, 3." You have to save the code I gave, like I did in User:PrimeHunter/minerva.css. Just copy-paste the code. The page User:Mobile mundo/minerva is supposed to be documentation for User:Mobile mundo/minerva.css. It doesn't hurt to create it but it's pointless unless you use it to say something about User:Mobile mundo/minerva.css. You can request deletion with Db-u1 if you want. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:26, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It didn't work. Maybe I done something wrong? I should point out that I have the same problem when I am logged out except the search icon is covered instead of the notifications icon. PS here at the help desk the information icon also covers the notifications icon.(Mobile mundo (talk) 12:07, 30 June 2018 (UTC))
 * My code only hides the icon at the reference desks. Add this to Special:MyPage/minerva.css to also hide the help desk icon with the same method:


 * You have the right code in User:Mobile mundo/minerva.css to hide the reference desk icon in mobile. Are you saying you still see File:P question.svg at the mobile https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities when you are logged in? Which browser or device are you using? The code works for me on an iPad and in Firefox on a PC viewing the mobile site. The code to hide it doesn't run when you are logged out so you are supposed to see the icon there. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:04, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I use chrome. I added the code and all the reference desk stuff is back to normal. Thanks you are a genius! (Mobile mundo (talk) 16:55, 30 June 2018 (UTC))
 * If you add the displayed code without the syntaxhighlight stuff from the wikitext then the help desk icon should also disappear. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:52, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Help desk icon has disappeared. Thanks again for that. Also thanks to & . PS you can the screenshot file into Commons or delete if you want. If you do decide to move the  screenshot file into Commons it could come in handy if another user has this issue.(Mobile mundo (talk) 01:00, 1 July 2018 (UTC))

Freezing table headers while scrolling
With long tables of many rows, is it possible to have the table header “freeze” at the top of the screen while scrolling through the table? Like the “freeze panes” command in Microsoft Excel. —67.14.236.193 (talk) 16:09, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Registered users have the option "Make sure that headers of tables remain in view as long as the table is in view (requires Firefox v59 or Safari)" under "Testing and development" at Special:Preferences. It has some limitations and only applies to the user who enables it. You cannot force it for others. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:20, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * So there’s no way to do that for an individual table for all users? —67.14.236.193 (talk) 16:26, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Right. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:29, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Drat. Thanks! —67.14.236.193 (talk) 15:54, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

References in article, but not clear where they go
Hi, I'm working on cleaning up the Jeremy Buendia article. There are some references right in the references section, but it's not unclear where the footnotes for those references should be placed. I'm pretty sure there's a tag that covers this scenario, but I don't remember what it is. Does anyone know which tag it is? Thanks. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:20, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * More footnotes – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:38, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! David O. Johnson (talk) 22:57, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Articles reviewed
I've been notified that two of my latest articles have been reviewed. Why? I have the autopatrolled right. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:21, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Discussed at Village pump (technical) There is work to fix it. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:45, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:27, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Wondering if this database is real or not
Hello. I am wondering if this database is real or not. Are you just a computer or is there a human I can talk to. Some information I had learned from a couple of months ago has completely changed or vanished into thin air. Not only that but I made an account to edit some incorrect information, I wasn't allowed to chance a single detail and I was warned against it. When I looked into your administrator all I find is a spaceship and a red button. Please explain to me what you are and what the site is about or better still please could I be the administrator. I think I have a lot to give. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kath6086 (talk • contribs) 21:08, 29 June 2018 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 01:29, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Most editors here are real people, although there are automated programs that also edit on Wikipedia (ClueBot NG, which detected one of your edits as vandalism and reverted it, is one such automated program). Because many different people with different opinions edit on Wikipedia, there are policies and guidelines that cover how editors should interact with each other. You made a bold edit and removed large sections of text that contained citations to reliable sources, and an editor disagreed with your removal and reverted it. Instead of re-deleting the text, which is considered "edit warring", the etiquette is to discuss it either on the article's talk page (Talk:Azrael in your case) or on the talk page of the editor that undid the removal (User talk:Stormy clouds in this case). This process is called the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle.
 * Finally, administrators on Wikipedia are editors who have gained the community's trust, which generally takes over a year of editing and tens of thousands of edits. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#00F;display:inline-block;padding:1px 1px 0;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK
 * See About for what what the site is about. By the way, File:US Air Force 021105-O-9999G-001 Spirit in the blue sky.jpg at User:ClueBot NG is not a spaceship but a real airplane Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:38, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * See: WP:REQUESTSFOR ADMIN(SPACE)SHIP, of course :)    —SerialNumber54129  paranoia / cheap sh*t room 10:33, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh come on, she's rumbled us. Most editors are of course shape-shifting trans-dimensional lizards, and the "admins" are in fact supercomputers in orbit around Planet X. DuncanHill (talk) 18:17, 30 June 2018 (UTC)