Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 August 16

= August 16 =

inaccuracies jn locked article
I was reading an articles that had obvious political bias and incorrectly referenced an article in a publication that did not say anything like what the wiki article said. I tried to edit but the article was locked " to prevent vsndalusm". How can it be corrected? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaCheebs (talk • contribs) 00:50, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You could tell us the name of the article here and what the problem is, though that's really the job for the article's talk page. You could also make an edit request at the article's talk page.  Ian.thomson (talk) 00:58, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Citation error on Cory Marks
Hi this is an urgent message. There is a citation error on the article entitled Cory Marks. Cory Marks is a Canadian country music singer. A Wikipedia user did use the mobile version of Wikipedia and created the article from its mobile editing and accidentally place a citation error. Could you check the Cory Marks and I can't find the citation error and it says "Cite error: A list-defined reference with group name "" is not used in the content". I am looking for the error and I can't find it, can you help me because I can't find it because mobile editing. I hope the editing will solve the problem. Thanks and have a great day. 2001:569:74D2:A800:894B:9CA3:D1DC:62E6 (talk) 01:05, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

— Berean Hunter   (talk)  01:47, 16 August 2020 (UTC) — Berean Hunter   (talk)  01:56, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi. I don't believe I see that anywhere. Could you perhaps upload a screenshot or just say where it is? NYCDOT (talk) 01:44, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * NYCDOT, go to the bottom of the references. It is there.
 * FWIW the error msg seems to have been generated by this edit but not obvious how... Eagleash (talk) 01:51, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Fixed it with this.
 * Excellent; I though it must be that template but similar error msgs in the past have not involved them (there was a 'rash' of odd msgs like that about 6 months ago). Eagleash (talk) 02:10, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Note: to anon OP Please do not ask the same question at multiple talk pages or help pages, as this can cause confusion and take up the time of other volunteers. Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 02:10, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Connie Francis
I recently logged in to Wikipedia to check on Connie Francis real name and there's a mistake with her surname. It should read Franconeri, instead it's published as Franconero, a surname which doesn't exist in Italy. Can this possibly be changed? From a distant relative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.26.218.109 (talk) 03:20, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * This is the wrong place to ask this type of question, but lots of sources say Franconero, including TV Guide. The South Florida Sun-Sentinel published an article titled "Ida Franconero, Mother of Singer Connie Francis". I don't see any that spell it Franconeri (neri a one). Clarityfiend (talk) 06:14, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * OP, there may well be no such name in Italy, but Connie Francis was born in the USA. When people emigrate from one country to another, they or their descendents often abandon or lose (deliberately or otherwise) some of the cultural (including naming) customs of their country of origin. This presumably occurred at some point for Connie's father George Franconero or one of his forebears. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.61.94 (talk) 17:58, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Would someone please help
Hi, I looked under the Wikipedia entry for our President, Donald Trump, and no mention is made of the fact that he is the first and only president to not accept even one dollar in salary for his position, and that he is working for free. This is an important historical fact. Since regular people cannot change or edit his entry, would someone at Wikipedia please add this important, documented information? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.162.40 (talk) 16:12, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * When an article is protected, you can make a suggestion for a change on the article's talk page: talk:Donald Trump. Please be sure to add a reference, since whoever implements your change for you will need to ave it. -Arch dude (talk) 16:35, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The article Donald Trump is currently under extended confirmed protection to enforce discretionary sanctions. I know you want to add your facts to the article but can you open an edit request?  Click on "View source" then click on "Submit an edit request".  Fill in the details of the request then click on "Publish".  Note that your request will not be tended to unless if it is either uncontroversial, supported with consensus, or supported with reliable sources.  Aasim 20:30, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Do you have any sources for Donald Trump not accepting any salary? Wikipedia cannot publish such a claim without any sources. J I P  &#124; Talk 00:39, 17 August 2020 (UTC)


 * IP.40 and : There are claims to the contrary, which would need to be investigated/included. —[ Alan M 1  (talk) ]— 00:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I would note for the OP that this is a global website, so Trump is not the president of everyone participating here. Also, your claim is not accurate, the first president to donate their salary was Herbert Hoover.  As noted in that link, Trump does not turn down the salary, he donates it.  He also makes money in other ways. 331dot (talk) 00:51, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Quote box question
This quote box appears in Shakespeare and Star Trek. Note that the first and last lines by Mark are set slightly apart. This is because in the rendered version, the middle three rows are inside a separate  element. But why? There is nothing in the wiki markup source that would seem to cause this. J I P &#124; Talk 16:45, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Leaving out all the newlines causes it to be spaced evenly. I guess you could ask to have the "quote box" template modified. Maproom (talk) 21:00, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that worked. I'd like to know what caused it in the first place. All newlines were written in the same way, so why did some of them cause a  element when some did not?  J I P  &#124; Talk 21:13, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Confusion with references
Hi. I have started the discussion on the references about the topic on the relevant community page, but hadn't received any clear answer. Local consensus is that reverse grid poles (first starting position which based on the result of previous race with reversing of the top eight drivers) do not count as regular poles scored in the qualifying. The thing is that I want to had a citation for every stat about four motor championships, the problem is that the official site does not count the reverse grid poles. But the site does not has any overall statistics, so I can't use it for overall stats because it looks like SYNTH. Fan-edited DriverDB which are not considered as general as reliable source has season-by-season stats, so probably it will be the synthesis to. While Motorsport Stats has such stats but it is the only site which counts reverse-grid poles. What will be the best decision here to avoid WP:Verifiability problems and satisfy the community? What will be the best way to explain in the note why we do not consider reverse-grid poles in overall pole stats? Cheers. Corvus tristis (talk) 17:25, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey... did you mean to post this here or at WT:F1? Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 18:48, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I did not mean to post this at WT:F1. 1. Most of the WT:F1 editors already know about the discussion as they also members of WP:MOTOR and already left their comments. 2. Maybe here I will get a comment from someone how already dealt with the same issue about contradicting sources but in different topics. Corvus tristis (talk) 03:23, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Adding content
In Wikipedia, there will be providing piece of evidence proving that what the person wants to edit is correct. So, they'll first provide all kinds of information including uploading some attachments as optional. Then, you'll check in if it's valid. So, then you'll add it in the Wikipedia pages. No one else should have any excuses to remove it. So, can you forward then implement this suggestion? Please reply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.140.131.14 (talk) 18:23, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello, IP user. The place to make proposals for changing how Wikipedia does things is at VPR. However, I think your suggestion is related to WP:Perennial proposals, which has been discussed and rejected several times. Your suggestion, if I understand it right, also involves uploading the sources; but in most cases that would be a copyright violation, and not allowed. --ColinFine (talk) 18:59, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * IP.14: It sounds like what you're describing is the way it works with pages with various types of protection, which is applied as needed. Requiring approval before publishing of trivial edits by trusted, experienced contributors would result in far too much "busy work". We have tools that do a decent job of sorting the good edits from the bad, and editors who review the rest. —[ Alan M 1  (talk) ]— 00:59, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Template overflow
I've been expanding Scheduled monuments in Derbyshire, mainly by adding references to the National Heritage List England (the official agency dedicated to heritage sites in England) using, and geographical locations using. However, there are around 500 entries so this means a lot of templates, and after a recent edit (now reverted) I noticed the the NHLE references were not working after a certain point. I don't really understand the technical aspects, but I did a bit of Googling and tried adding "safesubst:" before the templates; that worked in my user space but not when I pasted the same content back into the article. What are my options? Dave.Dunford (talk) 20:14, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Tried to upload a photo that I personally made but WIKI rejected claiming it was not mine. How do I dispute that?
I am a wildlife photographer, attempted to add a photograph to an article about a plant today, and it was disallowed, with the claim that it was not my original photograph. Contained within the image in metadata is all of my copyright information, time and date of the image, specifics about location and even my camera serial number. How do I get this corrected? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaveGrainger (talk • contribs) 20:15, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Special:Contributions/DaveGrainger shows no record of any edits to Wikipedia prior to this question. David Biddulph (talk) 20:19, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , Did you upload it to Commons, which is where it belongs?-- S Philbrick (Talk)  20:21, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , can you identify the name of the plant article, that will help us research it.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  20:23, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

It is an image of mature berries of ribes sanguineum, or Red Flowering Currant, which I was attempting to add to the illustrations of the article about that plant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaveGrainger (talk • contribs) 20:30, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I see no attempt by anyone to add an image to the article Ribes sanguineum, so I really can't figure out your issue. Anyways, before you reattempt uploading the image, let me ask you an important question: have you previously posted this image online or otherwise published it by any means? -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 20:37, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The easiest way for us to investigate this would be if you were to provide the username you uploaded this image with. Your current account, User:DaveGrainger, has no uploads (deleted or otherwise) either at Commons or directly to Wikipedia. —Cryptic 20:42, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * They triggered an abuse filter trying to upload a file to Commons (under this username) * Pppery * it has begun... 20:51, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Aha. I'd looked the filter log here, but didn't think to check the one at Commons.That's a... pretty draconian filter.  It assumes all crosswiki uploads by new users that A) aren't images, B) are pngs, C) are jpegs under 50k in size, or D) are jpegs under 5 megapixels (!) are copyvios.  It's hard to imagine an image that violated C but not D. Anyway, you should be able to upload it directly to Commons here, instead of doing the same thing indirectly through the Wikipedia upload wizard. —Cryptic 21:31, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't do much on Commons, but I always get the feeling that it is straining under the burden of tons of junk being improperly uploaded by people (not talking about the present case, but generally). Items B and D makes sense to me, as PNGs and low res pics probably have a reasonable probability of being copyvio screenshots (PNG seems most common for print-screen copy/paste into Windows Paint; 1920x1080 is 2MP). Item C might well describe internet memes. —[ Alan M 1  (talk) ]— 01:15, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

When to use the RfC process?

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I know how to use the RfC tag but I do not know when it is appropriate to do so, as WP:RFC is a little vague on the issue. What should I do if I have a question or proposal before starting an RfC? Aasim 20:25, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Figured it out. NVM Aasim 23:40, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Citations and references
When using the visual editor I am experiencing some issues could you please help?

When I turn on the visual editor some of the citations already in the article added changed numbers! Is this a glitch in the visual editor?

When I add a citation, other citations already in the article disappear! (For example there are already 34 citations in a article. When I add a citation the number turns to 30! I don't want to tread on anyone's work.  Is this a glitch? Is there a limit to how many citations and reference can be in a article?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12017=QBL (talk • contribs) 21:51, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , the only limitations to references I'm aware of is if the article exceeds its PEIS limit, which this isn't a case of. Since you're using the visual editor, the citations are renumbering themselves in the order that the references are being cited. Let's say you had citations 1–3 and you add one before 3. That new inserted citation becomes the 3 and what was the 3 becomes the 4. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  01:01, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Correctly pinging. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  01:02, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As Tenryuu said, references are automatically numbered by whatever tool is being used at the moment. It's entirely possible for different tools (normal editor, visual editor, ProveIt, page renderer, etc.) to make different decisions about numbering, which is why it's not generally useful to refer to references by number. Also note that if you edit a single section of an article, you'll only see (and number) the references used in that section). May I also suggest that you consider a different username, since you only have three edits under this one? You can just abandon this account and create a new one. For technical reasons, having '=' in your username will apparently cause some problems with different parts of the wiki environment. For example, to ping you (notify you that you are being addressed in a discussion), it is necessary to write  because   tries to ping the user QBL instead. It seems likely that there are other problems that would surface as well. I'm not sure why the software allows creating an account with '=' in it, but the easiest solution would be to not use it (or other characters that might have special meaning). The characters   are probably safe, though I wouldn't start or end with one (even if it's allowed). WP:NCTR describes some of the known issues, though there are other non-technical, usage-based issues that may not be immediately apparent. Thanks. —[  Alan M 1  (talk) ]— 01:42, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * FWIW the visual editor does not read references in an infobox as it is generated by a template and thus is not typically capable of being edited using vis ed. I sometimes use it to fix bare URLs and need to remember to subtract the No. of refs in the i/bx to get the right ones to convert. Eagleash (talk) 04:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)