Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 December 5

= December 5 =

Cross-wiki notification issue
Just before I add another suggestion to the Community Wishlist Survey, I wanted to check with colleagues whether I'm doing something dumb...

...My issue is that I am constantly frustrated that whenever I get a Notification alert from another wikimedia project post that I'm watching, I don't get the usual red notification in my 'Alerts' at the top of the page as I would do if I am mentioned on this wiki. Instead, I simply get a blue alert in 'Your Notices' with a message about 'More notices from another wiki'. That isn't, in itself, a problem. But, if I make the mistake of marking the alert as 'read', the cross-wiki notification then disappears completely, and I have no way of retrieving that notification again in order to find the link to the relevant wikimedia project. I find this immensely frustrating, but wanted to query whether it's down to something I might be doing wrong at my end, or if others find this a flaw in the notification system that really ought to be addressed. I look forward to some feedback on this. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:08, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Most of my "other" notifications are from Commons, grumbling that I haven't tagged an image upload fully. Hence I don't mind that they vanish after I take a brief look. However, I found out by accident recently that ALL your old notifications are stored at Special:Notifications for your account. I guess that's why you get the warning when you "thank" someone, because like everything else here you can never deny even these trivial actions. Given this archive, I donf't think your suggestion is needed but there may be some circumstance where it would help. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:42, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I should have said that the "Settings" cog on that page allows you to tweak loads of stuff associated with notifications. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:46, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, but unfortunately I had already unsuccessfully attempted o find a way to adjust the Notification preferences and to check Special:Notifications to reveal cross-wiki notifications inthe ways you suggest. But I still find no way to show those notifications once they've been dimissed. They simply disappper down a black hole. I'd be interested to know if you are actually able to display them again, yourself. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 07:50, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I've looked a this in more detail and am beginning to come round to your opinion, ! I don't get many of these notifications/alerts, so I can't be sure — especially as the list at Special:Notifications seems to go back only two months (actually, to 10 October 2020 as of today). I've read all the documentation at Help:Notifications and and can't see a proper explanation how the cross-wiki stuff is supposed to work. So maybe getting the boffins to (re-)consider the issue would indeed be the best way forward. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:01, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * This is even worse when you edit on multiple projects. I currently edit and get ocasional notifications from german Wikipedia, english Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons and on occasion elsewhere (mostly by bots intended to welcome everyone) Victor Schmidt (talk) 18:36, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Please add Joseph Merrick (the elephant man) to the article on the 27 Club
mr Merrick died at age 27 per your own article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Merrick — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.164.130.177 (talk) 00:10, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The 27 Club seems to be restricted to "musicians, artists, actors, and athletes". Clarityfiend (talk) 00:14, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello IP editor. Notwithstanding the above reply, that would sound more like a relevant request were there a category for people who died aged 27 (I haven't checked if there is one). That article sounds simply like modern cultural woo-woo. If Merrick was a member, cite your source or a membership number. Personally, my view of adding people post mortem, who'd never heard of such a thing, is a rather silly undertaking. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:20, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Citing lengthy lists of authors
When a scientific article has a vast number of "authors", say, approaching 30, is there any alternative to listing them all? How is the process automated?--Quisqualis (talk) 02:39, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , is this a template limitation you're running into? Generally in citing styles like APA one would name the first two or three authors and refer to the rest as "et al." — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  06:17, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I have been under the impression that "et al" had been deprecated and then disallowed. I gave up trying to use it in the name fields months ago. How is it invoked in the journal citation template?--Quisqualis (talk) 06:46, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If you are using cite journal then the  parameter does what you need; see this part of the documentation. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

How to understand "diff" in "View History" tab?
How to understand "diff" in "View History" tab? I have trouble in understand this feature in wikipedia. Please elaborate. PICTURE Man Floor (talk) 05:13, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , further reading over at WP:DIFF. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  06:15, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

stop asking for donations
I am homeless, sick and have no money and don't appreciate wikipedia shoving down me throat that your website needs money from me when I cannot afford food,or a place to live. Stop badgering everyone !!!!

why dont you live in your car at -30 C temperature with no food and cannot afford money for gas to run the car for heat.

So stop badgering me for money!!!!! I have none. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:3D09:977:6F00:4D8B:C361:21D2:CFB9 (talk) 05:31, 5 December 2020 (UTC)


 * While I, and I'm sure many of us, feel for your situation if that's genuinely the case, no volunteer editor has the capacity to stop donation requests. Wikipedia is one of the largest and most popular websites in the world, and requires donations to stay online. You can always click "No thank you" or close the donation pop-up. ThadeusOfNazerethTalk to Me! 05:35, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia can't tell if you are the same person from IP addresses. If you want to stop receiving these notices, consider creating a free account; you are not obligated to make edits. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  06:14, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Why does wikipedia donation banner look similar to Internet Archive?
Why does wikipedia donation banner similar to Internet Archive? PROOF Man Floor (talk) 05:43, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Probably because both organizations are asking for recurring donations. Questions/comments about fundraising can be sent to donate (at) wikimedia.org RudolfRed (talk) 19:36, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

How did Ser Amantio di Nicolao add "authority control" in so many articles in short period of time?
If you look at his contribution list, we can see he added "authority control" to 500+ articles in short period of time, How does he do that? What third party software did he use? PROOF Man Floor (talk) 06:24, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Pinging User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao.--Quisqualis (talk) 06:48, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The “Tag:AWB” means that he was using WP:AutoWikiBrowser to make those edits. You’ll see those tags around a lot of peoples edits - Many of mine say “HG” or “RW”, for WP:Huggle or WP:Redwarn. ThadeusOfNazerethTalk to Me! 07:02, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , it is common knowledge that Ser Amantio di Nicolao is Steven Pruitt, the most prolific human Wikipedia editor of the first twenty years of this project. He edits so fast because he thoroughly understands the semi-automated editing tools, and is very good at using them. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  07:24, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Common knowledge to everyone but me, User:Cullen328! Never needed to contact Steven Pruitt as I stood back in awe at his prolific editing.--Quisqualis (talk) 18:24, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Pinging . Cullen328  Let's discuss it  07:25, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , : a lot of editors use AutoWikiBrowser for a variety of tasks. It's a great tool for doing a fairly large amount of repetitive tasks in a fairly quick fashion.
 * thanks for the compliment. :-) -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 07:28, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Donating to Wikipedia
" Hi reader, it seems you use Wikipedia a lot; that's great! This is the 4th appeal we've shown you. It's awkward, but this Saturday we need your help. We don't charge a subscription fee. Thanks to the donations of 2% of our readers, Wikipedia remains open to all. If you donate just $2.75, or whatever you can, Wikipedia could keep thriving for years. Thank you."

In response: Hi Wikipedia, it seems you are mistaken saying, "it seems you use Wikipedia a lot" since I haven't been on Wikipedia in last 6mos. & only 'use' Wikipedia once in a blue moon when Goggling something & Google happens to offer a link that turns out to be Wikipedia. Secondly I have been giving $3. a year via paypal up until last year so I have been part of the 2% regardless how rarely I inadvertently wind up on Wikipedia! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.2.197.46 (talk) 08:40, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your contributions to Wikipedia. As a completely volunteer-based non-commercial entity, Wikipedia survives completely based on the generosity of people like you.


 * Because of the anonymity requirements, it’s hard to draft an automated note to every user that encompasses every scenario. Just be happy knowing the message that may rub you the wrong way is helping others contribute to the site that is so important for all of us. TimTempleton (talk) (cont)  09:36, 5 December 2020 (UTC)


 * As you are using an IP, there is no way to know how much you, the person sitting at the computer/holding the phone at this moment, have used Wikipedia. If you don't want to see the messages, you can create an account and then suppress the messages in your account preferences. 331dot (talk) 11:17, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

BLP flag does not apply -what sets it, and why does it not apply to events in a persons life?
On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Misogyny_Speech this banner appears "While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, ...]." Are events in a person's life excluded from BLP? And where is the flag that sets it > — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wakelamp (talk • contribs) 10:21, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * this box is created by, because its  param is set to  . The box could also be produced by  by setting   to  . Note that WP:BLP does apply here, as the speech was given in 2012 and all of the persons are still alive. So dont remove the param.Victor Schmidt (talk) 11:13, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't know how I missed seeing that flag. :-) I still don't understand why the message says "policy does not apply directly to the subject" Wakelamp d&#91;@-@&#93;b (talk) 12:25, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * English is a funny language. There is a big difference between "...policy does not apply directly to the subject..." and "While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, ...]." The word "While" indicated that this clause will be followed by an exception, and is is. Note also that the subject of the article is Misogyny Speech, which is not a living person. Thus, the banner is strictly correct as written. -Arch dude (talk) 17:22, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Archiving - How added, default settings, how do you find changes, do discretional sanctions change the defaults
Hi, Is there an easy way to find out when changes occurred to a page header or to a flag value? (Compare doesn't really work because the page header is hidden text) What triggers adding an archive bot to a page? What triggers changing an archive bots on a page? What are the defaults? If you override the defaults on a page for an archive bot, does it change it back> Do the archive bots have different defaults for those pages where discretional sanctions are active? Do Bots normally have better comments explaining what they are doing ? eg removing clue bot III adding Sigma bot ?

An archive bot was added to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:COVID-19_pandemic_in_Australia curprev 21:48, 25 March 2020‎ WWGB talk contribs‎ 57,026 bytes +92‎  undothank - {{User:MiszaBot/config {{User:MiszaBot/config }} {{auto archiving notice
 * algo = old(7d)
 * archive = Talk:2020 coronavirus pandemic in Australia/Archive %(counter)d
 * counter = 1
 * maxarchivesize = 150K
 * archiveheader = {{tan}}
 * minthreadstoarchive = 1
 * minthreadsleft = 5
 * bot = lowercase sigmabot III
 * age = 7

curprev 18:36, 25 March 2020‎ Clifton9 talk contribs‎ 56,934 bytes +527‎  →‎Recoveries: new section undothank - {{tlu|User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis }} Wakelamp d&#91;@-@&#93;b (talk) 10:40, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * archiveprefix=Talk:2020 coronavirus pandemic in Australia/Archive
 * format= %%i
 * age=72
 * maxarchsize=100000
 * numberstart=1
 * archivebox=yes
 * box-advert=yes
 * {{re|Wakelamp}}:


 * 1) Finding changes in the archive params usally means you manually have to vierw the difference in source code.Some changes might not be visible immedately, i.e. Page moves.
 * 2) Bots dont automatically archive talkpages, you have to invite them. You can invite a specific archive bot by adding its config template to the page, for example, User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis for {{noping|User:ClueBot III}}.
 * 3) changing the active archive bot is done by replacing the config templaate of the old bot with the config template of the new bot.
 * 4) archive bots wont automatically change the configuration, at least as far as I am aware. A failure to provide a valid config usally leads to the bot not archiving the page at all.
 * 5) archive bots usally have defaults for some parameters, but the response it bot-dependent, and may or may not be influenced by the existence of discretionary or general sanctions.
 * 6) this question is inconclusive. Every bot has its own config, and each config has its own documentation. Victor Schmidt (talk) 11:05, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Best tool to add categories to new article
Howdy. Is there a good user script or other tool for mass adding categories to articles? Is it built into Twinkle or the visual editor somewhere and I missed it? Thanks. – Novem Linguae (talk) 12:58, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi - WP:HOTCAT does something similar, worth checking first, or WP:AWB which needs some additional rights to use. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski  (talk • contribs) 13:34, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

How would I send a Vid of players cheating to the Devs
I have a video of players cheating how do I report this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:5791:D000:61F0:D812:4CA5:8F50 (talk) 13:22, 5 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Hey there. Thanks for your question. Are you sure you're in the right place? This page is for questions about editing Wikipedia. It sounds like you're trying to report somebody for cheating in a sport? – Novem Linguae (talk) 13:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Cheating in a video game, given the mention of devs. —A little blue Bori  v^_^v  Takes a strong man to deny... 23:45, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Are textbooks reliable sources?
Context: I'm currently copy editing an article, Bohipir, and one of the sources used is being used to interpret symbolism and other character motivations. My concern is that I feel whoever made that interpretation should be explicitly indicated in the prose or it should be completely removed as it doesn't seem encyclopedic.

I was hoping to consult WP:TEXTBOOK for guidance, but it doesn't seem to address what I'm looking for. I don't have access to the textbook, but I don't think it breaches WP:NOR, as the interpretations are (allegedly) from the source, nor is it considered WP:PRIMARY, as it is forming an opinion from the source text. I'm curious as to whether textbooks are, in general, reliable or otherwise, or if they should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis over at the WP:RSN. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  19:07, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I know of no reason a textbook should be treated differently than any other book. If the book is published by a reputable publisher (not self-published), then we treat it as a reliable source. If you think the assertion is an opinion stated as a fact, then perhaps prepend "one textbook author asserts..." to the assertion. -Arch dude (talk) 19:34, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I found this essay: Citing textbooks written by in 2010, but it doesn't seem to be linked to from many places at all, so probably hasn't found much support from other Wikipedia editors.  Seagull123  Φ  20:11, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Many thanks to and  for the responses. I'll make a recommendation for the primary editor based on this. — Tenryuu 🐲  ( 💬 • 📝 )  00:29, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

nuovo logo agenzia spaziale italiana
— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  18:11, 18 February 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pinuncka (talk • contribs) 19:09, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * This is the Help Desk for the English Language Wikipedia. Try asking at the Italian Wikipedia here:  RudolfRed (talk) 19:33, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , I believe this has to do with the English Wikipedia's article Italian Space Agency, where the OP seems to be attempting to change the subject's logo. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  20:16, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Why User:DarTar not listed in "Category:Members of the Fifteen Year Society of Wikipedia editors"?
User:DarTar has 16 years on Wikipedia, then why his name not listed on this 15 years category? Man Floor (talk) 19:55, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Because membership in Fifteen_Year_Society is optional and is opt-in. There is a template on that page you can use if you want to invite a qualified editor to join the group.  RudolfRed (talk) 20:05, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * We're soong going to need a Twenty Year Society. Mjroots (talk) 18:33, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

kancoll.org appears to now be a malware site
I was editing an article (Stockton–Los Angeles Road) which includes reference links to the site kancoll.org.

According to the Google cache for the site's main page, this is/was "The Kansas Collection", an archive of "nearly-lost books, letters, diaries, photographs, and other materials," and as of December 3rd the site was OK, but it appears that its domain registration has expired in the last couple of days, and now it's serving up spam and malware.

There are about 50 articles that include links to the site. What's the appropriate way to report and deal with this? (I'm also trying to find and reach out to the site owner, but my question here is about the correct WP process.)--NapoliRoma (talk) 20:42, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for catching this problem. If the site has been archived, then the next best step is to update the links to point to the archived version. See WP:DEADLINK for more info.  RudolfRed (talk) 20:57, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Link rot/URL change requests * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 21:14, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Donations
I’m trying to donate using my Amazon account. Won’t take payment. Have done it this way before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.1.22.254 (talk) 21:23, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for wanting to donate. You can report problems to donate (at) wikimedia.org RudolfRed (talk) 21:26, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Donating by mail
Is there a way I could donate by mail? Please advise at Sincerely, Ted Westmoreland — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.135.41.84 (talk) 21:35, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, mail is an option. See [] for details.  RudolfRed (talk) 22:00, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I have removed your email address to protect your privacy. -- John of Reading (talk) 22:08, 5 December 2020 (UTC)