Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 July 9

= July 9 =

Deletion on Meta
What is the procedure on Meta that is the equivalent of an English Wikipedia WP:MfD? --Guy Macon (talk) 00:35, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * m:Meta:Requests for deletion. —Cryptic 00:53, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Apply math formula in a table?
When building tables here in Wikipedia, is there a way to apply a mathematical formula to a value in a cell (or several cells) in order to show the result in another cell? For a project here, I'm working from an archaic astronomical work. It gives Right Ascension in Degrees, Minutes, and Seconds. Of course, the standard now is Hours, Minutes, and Seconds. An Hour of Right Ascension is 15 degrees, but it's rather more complicated than just dividing by 15. I looked at the Convert Template to see if that conversion is available; it seems that it is not. Uporządnicki (talk) 01:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * If the table is edited as table cells in the wiki source then one cell cannot read the value of another cell. If a Help:Table is used to make table rows then it's possible to pass one value to the template and use it to make multiple cells. Maybe you can combine Decdeg and Deg2HMS for the conversion. If you want to display both values without using a row template then you can manually copy the original value to another cell which applies a conversion to it. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:02, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Does "no original research" apply to calculating percentages from raw numbers?
I would like to add census data concerning demographics etc. to the articles for specific towns, based on this pdf. It lists percentages for statistics at the sub-district level, but for individual settlements it only gives the raw numbers (i.e. X many people in category Y). Would it be a violation of WP:OR to convert this to percentages to then include in the article?

Thanks,

3 kids in a trenchcoat (talk) 01:28, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Wikipedia. Basic math operations are not Original Research, so you are fine.  See WP:CALC.  RudolfRed (talk) 01:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Gotcha, thanks. 3 kids in a trenchcoat (talk) 02:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Is including text directly from ballot initiatives acceptable?
I've been working on creating the article Draft:Michigan Proposal 18-2. Under contents, I copied verbatim the what was written on ballots. I believe this would be acceptable, as laws are public domain. I'm not sure however. Thanks for your help. Elliot321 (talk &#124; contribs) 06:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

How can I stop someone uploading inaccurate information about my Great Grandfather
My Great Grandfather was a Rugby Player for the Welsh squad. He had three children. this resulted in 4 grandchildren and 8 great grandchildren. All who are alive are in close contact. His daughter is still alive at the age of 93.

Every few weeks the page gets updated to add a man called Colin as a grandchild and his 3 rugby playing sons as grandsons.

I have looked into the history and it appears that this man has set up a BOT to continually update this incorrect information. I have investigated this in a genealogical way and there is no chance that this family are direct descendants. It is upsetting his daughter who is still alive.

Please can someone let me know how to rectify this. The Bot that keeps editing this is "AnomieBOT"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Jenkins_(rugby_union) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LisaEdwards1978 (talk • contribs) 09:27, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * First of all, What is doing is removing empty &lt;ref>-Tags from the page, as they are pointless and cause error messages. As for the family tree, it appears that this was removed entirely because it wasn't WP:RS. You may want to read FAQ/Article subjects, even if you arent the direct subject, as it may contain additional advice. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 09:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * An editor has now removed all the relatives from the infobox. The field there is for 'notable' relatives; I.e. persons about whom Wikipedia has an article. FWIW the additions were made by various anonymous editors not by the 'bot' you mention which is an automated tool which undertakes minor maintenance tasks. For future reference, strictly speaking you should not edit the page yourself as you have what Wikipedia calls a conflict of interest but you can make requests at the article talk page. You could also read that linked page and make the necessay declarations. Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 09:53, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * (ec)Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. I think you mean the edits directly after AnomieBOT, that was a person.


 * Unfortunately, the article is pretty bad from the WP-POV, since much in it doesn't have any refs. I removed the names from the infobox for now since there was no cite to a WP:RS. If you know about WP:RS for Albert Jenkins, consider mentioning them at Talk:Albert Jenkins (rugby union). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:54, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Request to add image
Can anyone please add a picture to Thomas D'Souza without facing copyright restrictions. I've tried a couple of times, but every time it got deleted due to copyright infringements. Thanks-Pritam Shaw (talk • contribs) 10:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Looks like Wikimedia Commons has an image File:Rev. Fr. Thomas D'Souza.jpg- is this the right person? If it is, you could use this. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but he is not the right person, the correct person's images are in pages, ,.
 * Thankyou-Pritam Shaw (talk • contribs) 11:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that, as they stand, none of those pictures can be used, . Are you in a position to take a picture of him yourself, or do you know somebody who could? In that case the photographer would be able to license it appropriately as they uploaded it. Alternatively, if you approach the Diocese, they might be willing to license the picture appropriately: see Donating copyright materials, and be aware that D'Souza is probably not the owner of the copyright, and the Diocese may or may not be, depending on the circumstances in which the pictures were taken. If none of those work, then I can't see a way that a picture can be added to the article. --ColinFine (talk) 14:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ColinFine, I can't take his picture. If you search "Thomas D'Souza" on Google, you'll see a ton of image there. Is not a single image fit for Wikipedia, not even on Fair use?? - Pritam Shaw (talk • contribs) 14:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Fair use is completely out of the question for a living subject, {U|Pritam Shaw}}, as it is in principle always possible for someone to take a new photo of a living person and release it under the appropriate licence.
 * Images found on the internet are overwhelmingly subject to copyright, even if they are not immediately labelled as such. If you yourself want to perform the labour of checking through them until you find one that is explicitly released in the way that Wikipedia requires, you are welcome – you are as capable of doing so as any other of Wikipedia's all-volunteer editors. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.56.20 (talk) 15:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Publish New Page
Dear, Sir/Mam, I write about my company details since april 2020 but still its showing me as a draft instead of publish that article can you pls. reply how and when my wikipedia page was published?

This is my added page link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:SGMF_-_Support_Gujarati_Movies_Forever

Thank You SGMF Team — Preceding unsigned comment added by MT INDIA 786 (talk • contribs) 11:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * It's your company? Please read the "Plain and simple conflict of interest guide".


 * When the company become much written about in independent, reliable publications, then unrelated, disinterested editors may wish to create an article about it. -- Hoary (talk) 11:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * You created the draft Draft:SGMF - Support Gujarati Movies Forever, but you have not submitted it for review. If you submit it now, it will be declined, because it has no references to sources that establish the subject's notability. In fact, it has no references at all. If you cannot establish notability, then you should abandon your effort. Please look at WP:YFA, and carefully read Common sourcing mistakes (notability) and WP:AMOUNT. -Arch dude (talk) 14:45, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Tucker Carlson listed as a Journalist is incorrect
Tucker Carlson has never studied Journalism, and just because he wrote two books and is a political commentator, that does not make him a Journalist. Further, his lawyers have just recently argued in court that no one expects truth from Tucker Carlson. True Journalists are held to a high standard of truth in reporting. Tucker Carlson's own lawyers are arguing that he is not a true Journalist. So, I edited Carlson's page yesterday to remove the word Journalist, and someone, who normally edits Eastern European pages, reverted the changes back. How do I ensure that Carlson is not listed as a Journalist? Thanks for your help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samorgan44 (talk • contribs) 13:37, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The place for discussion of the article is at Talk:Tucker Carlson. --David Biddulph (talk) 13:41, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * (ec) You should bring this up at Talk:Tucker Carlson. Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources say about subjects. If the preponderance of them describe Carlson as a journalist, there isn't too much you can do about it. If they don't, then you should offer sources showing what he is typically referred to as. 331dot (talk) 13:46, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia lists his occupation as commentator. His lawyers argued just this week that he does not adhere to Journalistic principles. It does not matter how many people call him a Journalist. He is not one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samorgan44 (talk • contribs) 13:54, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * His lawyers can argue whatever they want in court; that's not what we go by. 331dot (talk) 13:59, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalistic_objectivity Do you go by that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samorgan44 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 9 July 2020 (UTC) How about this? https://www.americanpressinstitute.org/journalism-essentials/what-is-journalism/elements-journalism/ Truth is the number one goal of Journalism. Anyone who has studied Journalism knows that. Carlson does not tell the truth. Carlson is not a Journalist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samorgan44 (talk • contribs) 14:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The reference currently numbered 4 in the Tucker Carlson article provides ample evidence that he was once a journalist. Maproom (talk) 14:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

He may have been a reporter once, and he may have ascribed to journalistic principles once in his life, but he no longer does. So, list him as a former Journalist...not as a current one. A true Journalist tells the facts and the truth. Carlson does not do either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samorgan44 (talk • contribs) 16:11, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , again, this is best discussed at Talk:Tucker Carlson as that's where discussions related to the article's content takes place. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  17:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Problem with relisting MfD debate
The MfD debate Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Kappa/Kaaos (2nd nomination) has been open but inactive for a month now. I tried to follow the relisting instructions by adding  at the top and   at the bottom. The instructions say that a bot will shortly come along and add a link to the debate from the current day's listing. It's been over 14 hours now and no link has been added (I checked from the "what links here" tool). Did I do something wrong? J I P &#124; Talk 14:24, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think you did. It seems that your mfdr was put in the wrong place, see what it says on the template and at Miscellany for deletion/Administrator instructions. --David Biddulph (talk) 14:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I just relisted it again, with the undefined template in the right place. Because no one had added any comments after the first relist attempt, I deleted the old attempt so it does not appear like it has been relisted three times. J I P  &#124; Talk 15:03, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I suspect that there may still be problems, perhaps because the listing had been archived before being relisted the previous time so it didn't seem to get put back in the list. It may need adding manually to the relevant place in the list at WP:MFD. I see that recent relistings seem to involve manual intervention rather than by bot.  --David Biddulph (talk) 15:23, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I added the debate to today's MfD listing manually. J I P  &#124; Talk 16:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Problem publishing a translation
Hey everyone,

I have trouble uploading a translation. I can't upload an english translation of a french article since I didn't do the minimum edits required. Can someone upload a translation on Wiki Uk for me please ?

Thank you very much — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redkoffee (talk • contribs) 15:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Short answer:No. Long answer:No, presumably not. Please note that each language of Wikipedia is a seperate project with possibly different rules. We can generally assist you in translating and editing, but we arent going to do the complete work for you. Victor Schmidt (talk) 16:11, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * User:Redkoffee had already written a translation in his user space. All I had to do was move User:Redkoffee/Roche Musique to Roche Musique and fix a few minor errors. J I P  &#124; Talk 16:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * There are some COI and paid editing concerns that I have alerted the user to here and on fr-wiki. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 22:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Delete Wikipedia Page for Company
I need to delete the following company wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.R._Gray — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fwagner17 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Will likely not be done. Please see FAQ/Organizations for more info. Victor Schmidt (talk) 17:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * User:Fwagner17, if you "need" to delete the article just because you are employed by it and the company wants it to be deleted, please note that the subject of an article is in no way in any kind of position of authority or ownership of it. Please read WP:OWN and WP:COI. J I P  &#124; Talk 18:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Wilipedia is an encyclopedia. Our goal is to have an article on every notable subject, by our definition of notable. See WP:N. Notability is forever, so if the subject was ever notable it is still notable. We are not a topical news site. To have this article deleted, you would have to successfully argue that the subject had never been notable. -Arch dude (talk) 19:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Page declined
Our attempt to submit our page, California Dental Hygienists' Association (CDHA) to wikipedia was denied, essenntially citing not enough external sources.

Our organization is very similar to the American Dental Hygienists'Association Wikipedia (ADHA) page, and I see none of the external links on their page that have been required of us to publish our page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dental_Hygienists%27_Association

I can certainly add external links such as news stories to our submission, but I would like to know why the ADHA page has been published, yet ours denied, when ADHA has none of the external links required of our submission for CDHA.

Oral Health Warrior (talk) 20:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)Mike
 * Please note that accounts may not be shared; only one person should be operating your account. If you represent an organization, please review conflict of interest; if you receive any compensation from them, you must declare as a paid editor.
 * Please see other stuff exists; other similar articles existing does not automatically mean yours can too. As this is a volunteer project where people do what they can when they can, it is possible for inappropriate articles to go undetected or unaddressed, even for years.  We can only address what we know about.  The article you cite is tagged as problematic.
 * Please understand that Wikipedia is not interested in what an organization wants to say about itself, only in what independent reliable sources have chosen on their own to say about it(not press releases, routine announcements, staff interviews, etc.) demonstrating how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable organization. 331dot (talk) 20:08, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , the other page has its own problems as indicated in the tag provided at the top. However, a reference (which in itself is not reliable) and external links are provided and formatted properly. I suggest checking WP:EASYREFBEGIN to learn how to properly cite reliable sources. You should probably also review Wikipedia's stance on conflicts of interest as you appear to have declared a relationship with the subject, and said declaration should appear on your user page (something like UserboxCOI is helpful).
 * It's also Wikipedia policy that only one person can use one account; sharing accounts is not allowed on here. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  20:10, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * User:Oral Health Warrior, if you look at the American Dental Hygienists' Association article, you will see this right at the top:
 * User:Oral Health Warrior, if you look at the American Dental Hygienists' Association article, you will see this right at the top:


 * This means that article also has problems with lack of external sources. However, as User:331dot said, "other stuff exists" is not a valid criterion for inclusion. The existence of a bad article does not justify creating another bad article. J I P  &#124; Talk 20:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I nominated the article for deletion after failing to find any good sources online. Tigraan Click here to contact me 10:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

== The Maritimes are in Quebec, Gaspe, the Two Isle's Anticosti, and the Magdalen. Since 1949, the Four Atlantic Provinces are one. Pei, NS, NB, and Newfoundland .So who ever posted this, it should only go to 1949. ==

Thank you, i hope you make those changes, your article  is good till  you go beyond 1949. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.222.117.22 (talk) 23:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * You'll have better luck posting this on the talk page of the article you're referring to. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  23:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * As a Canadian, I can state unequivocally that the Maritimes do not include Quebec, the Gaspé Peninsula, or the sundry islands you've listed. Also, it states in Atlantic Canada, aka the Atlantic provinces, that the term dates to 1949. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * A simple search will bring up lots of official sources for the Maritime provinces, e.g. this federal government article. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:39, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Writing an Article
Hi! I would like to make a Wikipedia article about a fictional airport that I have made a model for. When trying to make an article, it says I must include links and sources for the topic I'm making an article about. But I don't have any of those since my airport is fictional, and would just like to make a Wikipedia article for fun to show to my friends and family. Would I be able to this? Please let me know. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChrisJTP (talk • contribs) 23:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * See WP:NOT This is not what Wikipedia is for.  You will need to find another place to write about your fictional place for your friends.  RudolfRed (talk) 23:36, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , that does not fall within the scope of what Wikipedia covers. You could try creating something at another wiki. There are some wiki hosting services that might be appropriate for you. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  23:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Help a user threaten to
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AKent_Bargo&type=revision&diff=966896232&oldid=966545730 Can any experts verify the legitimacy of a another editor able to post final warning over a challenged edit? I feel like this behavior is inappropriate and admin intervention maybe needed? Is like this person want to keep the page his/her way or threaten you to be blocked. Kent Bargo (talk) 23:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * You appear to have been the sole proponent of one side of an argument on Talk:UFC 251. Fine so far. But you won't accept that you've lost the argument. Again: for your latest edit summary, you say "Warning : This is EN Wikipedia not United Arab Emirates Wikipedia : We follow US time". You are welcome to "follow US time" for your own private purposes, but Wikipedia has a policy of using local time. If you are unhappy about this, you are free to argue for a change to MOS:TIMEZONE. The place to propose such a change is Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers. -- Hoary (talk) 05:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * what's more, as this is the English wiki, wouldn't the US time be also inferior to GMT? :P Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 09:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that GMT is only standardly standard in Iceland. Weak-kneed nations like Blighty drop out of it for half the year. -- Hoary (talk) 11:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It's also the standard time in Ghana and Togo (and maybe a couple of other nearby African countries). Joseph2302 (talk) 12:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I sit corrected and delighted. It turns out that there are a sizable bunch of such countries, not to mention Tristan da Cunha. "Togolese time" has a particularly pleasing ring to it. -- Hoary (talk) 13:18, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree, this isn't the US Wikipedia, and the US has many timezones anyway, so we shouldn't be standardising to "US time". If you want to standardise, so it to UTC. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed to all the above, except that should be reminded that this was a content dispute and were edit warrning themselves (with multiple users) and could have easily been blocked. I count at least five reverts in a 24 hour period. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 13:20, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Reverting disruptive edits by multiple IP and registered users that have already done it before does not fall into edit war. There's no content dispute on it, as we already had notes hidden to remind people that the date is correct and should not be changed. Gsfelipe94 (talk) 16:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , you are completely wrong. In fact, it's interesting that you are now taking this position when you said earlier "Do not revert or you might me blocked for disruptive edit/edit war" (emphasis mine). Although I actually agree with your side of it, this is the very definition of a content dispute. Kent Bargo was making good faith edits to the article and was not vandalizing. Constantly reverting good faith edits does not exclude you from WP:3RR. If I see you doing this again, you will be blocked as your block history shows you've been down this road before... and apparently haven't learned from it. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 17:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Apparently you can't recognize a typo (interesting that B and M are close to each other), so that has no context whatsoever. He was reverted once and warned about it not being a simple content dispute. He did not repeat it, different than the other registered user there who did it twice (not counting the random IPs as well). And yes I was blocked years ago due to 3RR and if I haven't learned from it, those situations would have already repeated over and over again. Can't compare then to now. Gsfelipe94 (talk) 18:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , you can rationalize it any way you choose, but it doesn't make you any more correct. If this had been reported at WP:AN3 instead of here and I had seen it, you would be blocked. So, let me be absolutely clear: if you continue to edit war over content like you did on this article, I will block you. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 19:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

REQUEST HELP DESK CASE Conversation CLOSURE. The user is going on and on and on again about a =small content dispute... user posted phony "final warnings" on multiple users talk pages. REQUEST HELP DESK CASE Conversation CLOSURE Kent Bargo (talk) 19:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)