Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 November 23

= November 23 =

Searching for Wikiepedia articles on Google looks off for the section I added
Recently I've been editing and adding a bunch of things to the Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana page, including the Sales section. The problem is that this section looks off on Google when you search for it. Just go on Google and search "Ys VIII sales Wikipedia", and you'll see "Sales [edit]" even though it's not supposed to be there? Is there any way to fix this?HamlockK (talk) 00:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has no control over how Google displays its information. Our servers create ad serve an HTML page that Google interprets. Our page does in fact have the text you quoted. -Arch dude (talk) 01:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Linking to Wiktionary in prose?
I was reading WP:MOSSIS and saw that Wiktionary links can be linked in prose. Is there any precedent for pointing to a specific definition? Should I use an efn for that? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  02:55, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello, . I'm not sure what you're asking. What's wrong with, which displays as help? --ColinFine (talk) 10:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , I was just wondering if there was any established guideline for pointing to, say, the fifth definition from the Etymology 2 verb, though it appears that from your answer there doesn't seem to be any. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  16:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure there's no way short of using Xpath, (and I don't know of a way of getting that into a URL): the numbering of the senses is just done by an HTML 'ol' (ordered list) tag, so there's no id on a sense that you could link to. --ColinFine (talk) 19:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help; I'm not going to delve into Xpath as that's too advanced for me, but I'll figure out how to best word the sentence I'm thinking of then. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  21:07, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * You can link to specific text using Link to text fragment. However as of right now this isn't a good option as I'm pretty sure it only works on Chrome and Chromium (web browser) browsers. Nithintalk 01:50, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

List formatting
At this section on my userpage, I am trying to get "Help Desk, the greeting, "reference desk", and that greeting to all appear on different lines, rather than as prose. Does anyone know how to do this? Placing colons didn't work, nor did bullet points. Thanks.   Please ping when replying . 05:50, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , most likely it's the  tags. Have you thought about replacing them with   tags? — Tenryuu 🐲  ( 💬 • 📝 )  07:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , I can't believe I didn't realize that. What is a pre tag, and what does it do?   Please ping when replying . 07:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * They're preformatted tags, which will put text in a box without rendering it. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  07:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks, I'll try that in the morning.   Please ping when replying . 07:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

In regard to create a new page for an education institute
Hello There,

I want to create a Wikipedia page for an educational institute but don't know how to create it. Could you guys please help me with this?

Thanks Ayushi Agrawal — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ayushigarg0822 (talk • contribs) 05:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , instructions to create your article are at WP:AFC. Please also read WP:ORG and WP:GNG.   Please ping when replying . 06:04, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello, . I may be misunderstanding you, but often when people ask about creating "a page for" something, they are under the misapprehension that Wikipedia is a place to tell the world about their something. It is not. If Wikipedia ever has an article about your institution (whether created by you or anbody else), the article will not belong to the institution, the institution will not control its contents, it should not be based on what the institution says or wants to say about itself, but on what independent commentators have published about the institution, and it could end up containing material which the institution would prefer it not to contain. --ColinFine (talk) 11:03, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Red cat
This page has a red-link category (see below) -- Category:Wikipedia help pages with dated sectional. Either a typo or perhaps vandalism; presumably should be Category:Wikipedia help pages with dated sections. How to fix? --107.15.157.44 (talk) 06:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and fixed it.   Please ping when replying . 06:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * --107.15.157.44 (talk) 06:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC) . ..
 * [edit:06:55, 23 November 2020 (UTC)] Category:Wikipedia help pages with dated sections should be added, I believe.
 * It's showing in the edit window, but not the published page. I'll let someone else figure it out, I'm not great with categories.   Please ping when replying . 21:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It's a hidden category, so shouldn't show up. * Pppery * it has begun... 21:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * so the page is categorized correctly?   Please ping when replying . 21:26, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. * Pppery * it has begun... 21:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks .   Please ping when replying . 21:36, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oic -- thx --107.15.157.44 (talk) 00:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Regarding change of logo
Recently star suvarna channel logo changed, I want to change to logo, how to change the logo or upload — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harishlash (talk • contribs) 07:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello, does Logos tell you what you want to know? —teb728 t c 09:36, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Getting Authority Control to Populate
I somewhat inherited an article on the guitarist / singer Rocky Kramer and recently placed an Authority control template on the bottom of the page, as some discussions I found seemed to instruct. I also went into the corresponding Wikidata page and updated as much information as possible. Although I found many discussions about Authority Control throughout WP, I found almost nothing that educated me as to how to get the Wikidata information to populate to the article's template box. Have I failed to insert some necessary element into the Wikidata file or does it take some time to populate? I apologize if this is something I should know, but it seems exceptionally complicated and I couldn't find any tutorials that addressed from the standpoint of a complete novice. I would really appreciate someone helping me get it working properly or leading me to a decent tutorial of some sort. Thank you much! --Warriorboy85 (talk) 09:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Although the Wikidata item has good deal of information it does not seem to have had any identifiers added (VIAF etc.). Eagleash (talk) 09:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I saw several discussions about VIAF and a list of identifiers, but nothing that explained where I can find the identifiers and how to add them to Wikidata. Do you know of any tutorial designed to educate a total novice? Thanks so much for giving me some direction. --Warriorboy85 (talk) 10:04, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * If I understand correctly, only the templates at Category:Templates using data from Wikidata use data from Wikidata. Are you wanting to learn how to modify other templates to use Wikidata? —teb728 t c 10:08, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * My problem is that I don't really know what I need to do. I added the Authority Control template and added as much information as I could to the Wikidata file corresponding to the article. I am now discovering that I need to add identifiers, but have no idea how to get identifiers or where to insert them should I get them. Do they populate on their own from WP, if I do nothing? At this point I think I need to do a lot of research before I attempt anything further in terms of Authority Control. I really thank everyone for trying to assist me! You guys are very thoughtful. --Warriorboy85 (talk) 10:36, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * FWIW; see a well-known musician's] Wikidata item for an example of a page with a lot (rather more than you would need!) of identifiers. The only way I can see of finding them is searching probably each individual site and adding them. This seems labour intensive etc. and TBH whenever I've added a new item to Wikidata identifiers seems to appear by themselves in the same way that a bot adds the metadata to images at Commons. However you might be able to kick things off a bit by looking at the obvious ones at the example shown. If you are stull having problems, click the 'help' ;ink at the left of the Wikidata page. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 13:39, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * PS I didn't get your ping; (just in case) you need to add the ping, the message and the signature all in one 'go'. Later amnedments cause the ping to fail. Eagleash (talk) 13:39, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * PPS this user and this one are also usually pretty helpful over at 'Data'. Eagleash (talk) 13:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yet more... if I remember rightly, when you add the statement 'VIAF' (say) the identifier section heading is created automatically; not 100% certain about that though. Still the need to find the individual IDs etc though. Eagleash (talk) 13:58, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your help and my apologies for the delay getting back to you. I had to get some rest for work today. This help forum is a very nice community and I appreciate the help. --Warriorboy85 (talk) 16:14, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Is there a way to collapse selected rows of a table?
In IBM System/370 I have a table with several long sections. There is a heading row showing bit positions, and I want cells in subsequent rows to align with those headings, so I don't want to put those sections in nested tables. I would like to make each of Control Registers and General Registers separately collapsible. Is there a way to do that? Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 10:25, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Naming templates
Are there any templates which can be used to identify articles which are poorly named? Perhaps where the article location on the bold section of the lede do not match? Fob.schools (talk) 12:07, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of such a template. If there indeed isn't one, you might use self-contradictory accompanied by an explanation on the article's talk page and/or clarification in the template's about parameter. Deor (talk) 19:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oops, forgot to ping . Deor (talk) 19:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks - any value in creating one, do you think? Fob.schools (talk) 20:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I think it might be worth it.   Please ping when replying . 22:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * For the record, the article that caused me to ask the questions was Port City Colombo, which seems to be an old name for the area in question. I'm wondering what might be a good template to use as a basis for the new template? And what would be a good name? misnamed? Fob.schools (talk) 12:25, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

new topic on Fr Mathew Vayalamannil
new topic on Fr Mathew Vayalamannil was declined — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mercythomas (talk • contribs) 13:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, and for the usual reason. Draft:Mathew Vayalamannil fails to demonstrate that its subject is notable, in Wikipedia's sense of that word. Please click that blue link. Maproom (talk) 14:04, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Indeed,, Draft:Mathew Vayalamannil was declined. The reasons are at the top, and the various blue links in that point you to pages which explain the problems. You might also find WP:CSMN helpful. Note also that evaluative phrases like "most renowned" and "really interesting" are almost never appropriate in a Wikipedia article, which should always be written not from the author's knowledge (still less the author's opinion) but solely from what independent reliably-published sources say about the subject. --ColinFine (talk) 14:07, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


 * It was declined because notability had not been established. Wikipedia requires in-depth coverage in multiple independent,reliable sources. The references given are not usable. One is a routine listing which really only shows that he exists within an organisation and one seems to be little more than an advert for a retreat. Also YouTube is not typically acceptable as a source. Please follow the links in the decline notice for more information and review the guide to article creation. Another useful guide to creating an article can also be found at this page. Thank you and good luck. Eagleash (talk) 14:12, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

How to cite author in a reference where no author is given?
Often, I have used "Staff" or "Editors" as the author in a reference to a reliable source, where no specific name is given. Another editor has advocated that the authorship be left blank on the theory of "who cares?". What is the preferred practice and is there an MOS citation for it? HopsonRoad (talk) 14:08, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Leave it blank. If we ever get around to automating an author search based on the information in templates, this will be the best solution. A case could be made for using "staff" or "editors" if the source specifically attributes "staff" or "editors", but as a personal opinion, I would be against that. -Arch dude (talk) 16:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


 * @HopsonRoad, Arch dude: I don't know there's a more policy-/help page-/guideline- etc.-based source for this tidbit (or maybe discussion at the pump, etc.), but for what it's worth, the documentation for Author incomplete provides as follows:

"If you know that no author was specified by the original source, as in common in many newswires, explicitly state this with:
 * &lt;!--none--&gt;
 * or for free-form citations:
 * "--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 17:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


 * See also the first two examples at Template:Cite web. Deor (talk) 19:07, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Unable to edit a page?
This page on Wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President-elect_of_the_United_States, contains false information and yet there is no ability to edit or post a warning. Why is that? The President-Elect is not chosen by the media and the 2020 election for the President of the United States has not been finally decided by the established process. Recounts and legal challenges are underway. At the very least, this page's pronouncements are premature. At most, they are deceiving the American public. It makes Wiki look bad. Who will trust Wiki if these pronouncements are proven wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MRWAuthor (talk • contribs) 14:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi - the page is currently page protected against vandalism, requiring WP:Extended Confirmed (500 edits, 30 days) or better to edit. This is why you cannot edit the article. You can post requested edits to the talk page. Wikipedia only writes what is mentioned in reliable sources. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski  (talk • contribs) 14:14, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I fear you would be wasting your time trying to request a change on this particular topic, per the big STOP note at the top of the article's talk page which states:
 * Q1: Why does the article call Biden the President-elect when court cases are still pending, the results aren't official, or vote counting is still underway?
 * A1: Wikipedia content is based on reliable sources (see Verifiability, Reliable sources), essentially all of which call Biden by the unofficial term President-elect of the United States, meaning he is the apparent and expected winner of the election. Major media outlets "call" elections based on reported votes, candidates' vote differences, and mathematical likelihood of one candidate overtaking the lead. (Source: AP)
 * In the impossible-to-imagine scenario that these pronouncements were to prove premature, Wikipedia would simply report the unfolding situation, based solely upon reliable sources and not hearsay and speculative legal actions. Wikipedia would not be embarrassed one iota, or have its reputation or trust dented, because Wikipedia simply follows what the world's mainstream media at large says, and does not lead the way or set the news agenda. Hope this helps. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * don't feed the trolls. -Arch dude (talk) 16:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Community General Sanctions
Are there general help instructions for how to respond to disruptive editing in an area where Community General Sanctions are in effect? I know what the procedures are when ArbCom Discretionary Sanctions are in effect. The user is first alerted with the alert macro. Disruptive editing can then be reported to Arbitration Enforcement. Does one use the alert macro for community sanctions, or is there a sibling of it? Then is there a conduct forum to report disruptive editing, or does that go to Arbitration Enforcement, or to WP:ANI? Robert McClenon (talk) 18:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I see that I use the gs/alert macro. Where do I then report the editor?  by the way, this isn't about the US Presidency, because that is ArbCom AP2.  This is about covid.Robert McClenon (talk) 18:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I am not familiar with this area, but based on the note at General_sanctions/Coronavirus_disease_2019, it seems that you first need to warn an editor and then if the behavior persists an administrator may take action, so I suppose WP:ANI is a venue you can use for reporting it. RudolfRed (talk) 18:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * General sanctions function almost identically to discretionary sanctions by design, the only difference being GS actions don't go to WP:AE, instead going to WP:AN or WP:DRAMA. —A little blue Bori  v^_^v  Takes a strong man to deny... 19:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Confused about article status that I recently submitted
Hi I am a professor at UCLA and am brand new to writing articles for Wikipedia so forgive my ignorance but I'd like to get clarification about an article that I recently submitted.

I wrote an article about a well known design approach that I created as a graduate student at MIT and have built my academic career around, called freedom and constraint topologies (FACT), and Melcous reviewed it (see below) and they flagged it as a possible conflict of interest since it's my own work and is possible self promotion. They moved it to my sandbox but I'm not sure what to do about it there.

Is it not possible for me to publish on my own work? I'm not being paid for writing the article and I'm not making money from the article either. Is there something I'm supposed to change about the article and then resubmit it? It's not clear what I am supposed to change since I can't do anything to make the article not about my own work? Or do you recommend I find others in my field who know about, use, and teach the theory of my design approach and have them publish the article on their own wikipedia account?

The topic should be Wikipedia worthy. I've published about the topic in over 40 journal articles, it's been written into respected engineering textbooks, and at least 10 professors teach the theory nationally and internationally in undergraduate and graduate level course at respected top-tier universities. I was honored by President Barack Obama at the White house for creating the approach (as is mentioned on wikipedia under the presidential early career award for scientists and engineers article) and I can't imagine who would be more qualified to write about the approach than its creator.

Melcous comments can be found at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jonathanbhopkins#Conflict_of_interest_editing

My article about FACT can be found at: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Freedom_and_constraint_topologies&oldid=989936274

Any clarity would be much appreciated. Thanks for helping me understand and navigate all of this. best wishes, Jonathan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathanbhopkins (talk • contribs) 20:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello, . The problem is that it is a fundamental policy of Wikipedia that an article should be based almost entirely on sources independent of the subject. An article on your invention may be possible, if it can be based almost entirely on published materials entirely unconnected with you. Most of the references in your draft are to your own work: such sources can be used in only very limited ways - see PRIMARY. If there is enough material published about it not by you or your colleagues, then an article is possible; you are discouraged from writing it, as you do indeed have a conflict of interest, but not forbidden. If there is little or no material about the topic written and published entirely independently of you, then I'm afraid that it does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability. --ColinFine (talk) 20:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * If the topic is genuinely notable, other experts in the field without your obvious conflict of interest would be the obvious candidates to create such an article. Some of the ten professors you mention, and the people who drew your work to Obama's people's attention, seem like obvious candidates. The creator of this approach, on the other hand, is inherently going to be biased in writing about it, just from the realities of human nature. We see the marvels of our own brainchildren clearly; and sometimes we see the flaws as well, with painful clarity. Are there solid introductory descriptions in the textbooks you mention? That's the sort of content we hope to see drawn on, by whoever writes the new article. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  20:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The current version of the draft is at Draft:Freedom and constraint topologies.  Maproom (talk) 23:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not an expert in citing scholarly works, but I do know that Google Scholar has been used in the past to determine the notability of research published on Wikipedia. Showing who is citing your research works better for notability validation than simply listing one's own published papers. TimTempleton (talk) (cont)  01:24, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

changing title of a wikibio
I created a wiki page about Lynn Silver. In the first line I point out it is for Lynn L. Silver, but I would like to change the title to Lynn L. Silver because there is a Lynn D. Silver in a related field — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clquinn (talk • contribs) 21:55, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Retitling an article (not just a mere "page") requires a page move, which you may request at Requested Moves. 331dot (talk) 21:58, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Somebody's moved it already, but it's not clear that Lynn D. Silver (if we're talking about the pediatrician) warrants an article, so this may all be moot. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:05, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * TimTempleton (talk) (cont)  00:38, 24 November 2020 (UTC)