Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2021 June 25

= June 25 =

List of 2022 albums
Can you fix the mistake i made on 2022 in albums please. 98.186.54.177 (talk) 00:58, 25 June 2021 (UTC)


 * ✅, if it's the row above the header row. Remember to double-check your . — Tenryuu 🐲  ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:33, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Edit button
Hi, for some reason, my edit button disappeared. Could you tell me how to fix it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miao Lin 12138 (talk • contribs)
 * Has it been replaced by "edit source"? Can you still enter editing with Alt or Alt? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:02, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Are you using the Wikipedia desktop or mobile interfance, or the Wikipedia app? Could you please give an example of an unprotected page where you cannot see the edit button?  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 15:56, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Bullet points not working within Template:Side box?
Hello,

I need some assistance with a template. Please check my sandbox for the problem. The three "Test"s in the box on the right are supposed to be bullet-pointed, but this isn't working. Any help is appreciated. Regards, DesertPipeline (talk) 08:46, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

I've changed the title to be more accurate, considering Template:Sister project invokes Template:Side box. DesertPipeline (talk) 10:58, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * @DesertPipeline: It looks like Module:Side box adds the "plainlist" CSS class (also used in plainlist, for instance) to its content ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ExpandTemplates&wpInput=%7B%7Bsidebox%7B%7B%21%7D%7Dtext%3DText%0A%0A%2Aone%0A%2Atwo%0A%2Athree%7D%7D&wpGenerateRawHtml=1 see generated HTML]), which can't currently be turned off. As a temporary fix, you could write your list using HTML syntax and manually set the list style: But a better long-term solution would be to add a parameter to Module:Side box that allows "plainlist" to be turned off. – Rummskartoffel  16:53, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * User:Rummskartoffel: Thanks! I'm not very good at programming myself and I wouldn't want to mess up the code. Is there somewhere I could ask for someone to implement that parameter, or would you be able to do it? Regards, DesertPipeline (talk) 02:46, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Edit re aircraft incident 1981 Canada
I guess I messed up with addition of article. I don't hava a referrence. Verbally from DOT thatbwe were second plane to survive. Almost 40 years ago but I clearly remember piñot swerving and yelling at me to shut the cabin door. I replied" There is no fing door and get this plane on the ground in one piece - that is what is left of it. Icouldn¿t see how to add to atalk apage of reviewer of my article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sleibhin1 (talk • contribs)
 * Unfortunately, Wikipedia requires that almost everything is cited. If the accident hasn't been talked about from a reliable source, it can't go on Wikipedia, which is why someone else removed it. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:09, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * what you added amounts to original research, which is why it was removed. No major harm done. Mjroots (talk) 16:16, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Restoring information Dmitry Lesnevsky
Dear Sir/Madam.

I do see you remove the Wikipedia text of Dmitry Lesnevsky (Dmitry Lesnevsky). Sending this letter as a complaint about the unlawful removal of content that is absolutely truthful and confirmed by open sources. All information was confirmed by your editor. Could you please restore all information about Dmitry Lesnevskiy and lock it for any future removal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielChaisson (talk • contribs)
 * First, please be aware of no legal threats. Regarding your question, the information was removed because it violated the strict biographies of living persons policy as being completely unsourced.  It doesn't matter if the information is "true" or not as we can't just take your word for it, it must be sourced to an independent reliable source for verification purposes.  If you have an independent source or sources for the information, please offer them at Talk:Dmitry Lesnevsky.
 * If you are associated with him in some way, please review conflict of interest. 331dot (talk) 09:32, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, Wikipedia editors decide for themselves whether an article should be locked. The subject of the article has no say in the matter. Wikipedia is written for the purpose of its readers, not on the article subjects' beck and call. It is very rare that articles are locked on Wikipedia, usually because they are targets of frequent vandalism. J I P  &#124; Talk 16:01, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

TV documentaries and news segments as source
I have two questions about sourcing: Thank you very much in advance! Henni147 (talk) 11:41, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Is it allowed to use old TV broadcasts of documentaries or news segments as inline-citation source that are no longer available as a video clip on the broadcaster's website? One of the broadcasts I'd like to use is the following: グッド！モーニング (Good! Morning) aired on TV Asahi (Japan) on November 5, 2014, 4:55-8:00 AM (local time). The program is listed on Kakaku.com (first entry), but the information itself that I want to source is not mentioned there. I have a private recording of the news segment, but uploading or linking it would probably violate Wikipedia's policy.
 * 2) If it's allowed to use the source, which citation template do I have to use and which information are mandatory to include in the reference?
 * Uploading archived footage of a copyright program to YouTube and then linking to it could be a copyright violation. This is a little out of my area of expertise, but you can read more here: WP:YOUTUBE. TimTempleton (talk)  (cont)  20:05, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your response. Yes, I wanted to avoid an upload on YT, Twitter or any other platform particularly for that reason. My question is rather, if it's allowed/ possible to cite a TV news segment or documentary similar to a magazine or book, just not with an ISBN but a broadcast ID or something similar. Henni147 (talk) 20:22, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know any policy to the contrary, so I'd say just go for it. Worst thing that can happen is someone reverts you and you have to discuss with them before adding it again. As for citation templates, you're not required to use any, but I think cite AV media may be what you're looking for. – Rummskartoffel 20:29, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. I will use that one and try to be as precise with the sourcing as possible. Henni147 (talk) 20:44, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

DAB: Karen M. Fischer / Death of Karen Fischer and Christian Struwe
I just finished moving Karen M. Fischer to the mainspace, but I am not certain how to handle the disambiguation page. The Karen M. Fischer page is about a scientist. Right now 'Karen Fischer' redirects to Death of Karen Fischer and Christian Struwe. That page is a combination of an article about an event (the death) and biographies of Fischer and Struwe. This raises a few questions that I don't know how to handle. (1) Just listing the two Karen Fischer's on a DAB page is easy enough, but what should happen to the redirect? (2) Should there be a different page just for Karen Fischer (the journalist) to distinguish it from the one I just finished (Karen Fisher, scientist)? (3) Are there other issues I have missed here? Thanks in advance. --DaffodilOcean (talk) 12:15, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You could change the Karen Fischer page from being a redirect to a disambiguation page that links to Death of Karen Fischer and Christian Struwe, Karen M. Fischer, Karen Fisher, etc. GoingBatty (talk) 15:51, 25 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I need a little clarification by this you mean just edit the page that is currently sitting at Karen Fischer? --DaffodilOcean (talk) 16:34, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * That's right, . Go to Karen Fischer, then pick where it says "(Redirected from Karen Fischer)" at the top, and it will take you to the redirection page itself. You can edit it in the normal way, and turn it into a DAB page. See WP:DAB and MOS:DAB for details. --ColinFine (talk) 16:47, 25 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I think I got most of this, but I also think I erred in first moving the page to Karen Fischer (disambiguation). I am now hesitant to move it again for fear of making some really crazy circular loop. Can someone please take a look at the DAB page, and perhaps also the hatnotes I put at the top of the two other pages in question (Karen M. Fischer and Death of Karen Fischer and Christian Struwe to make sure I have done this all OK? Thanks. --DaffodilOcean (talk) 17:12, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Just moved the target page into the redirect. It should be all good now, . — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:34, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Sara Ramirez's Wikipedia Page and Infobox Images
So I updated the infobox image of Sara Ramirez because 1) having an outdated image of a person on their wikipage is annoying and 2) I know when I look back at photos of me from before my gender identity change I feel dysphoric and maybe that's not the case for Sara, we may never know, but I think the main photos on information pages should reflect their current appearance.

A user Serols reverted this change claiming it "did not appear constructive" but keeping images of people up to date is good practice and it seems to me like they only reverted this change due bigotry.

Maybe an updated image isn't as important as listing everything they've been in and new information about the person in question, but not changing it seems lazy at best and offensive at worst. Maybe not all images need to be updated if the person looks basically the same but when there's a huge difference in appearance or age it's important.

Sara Ramirez's page isn't the only one that needs to be updated. Elliot Page's Page is another and there's probably a lot more that I haven't seen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TransDragon (talk • contribs)
 * Wikipedia has articles, not "wikipages". It is true that the infobox image should reflect the most recent appearance if possible in many(though not all) cases- but it must be done in the proper manner, .  Please don't assign motives to other editors that you cannot know, you aren't inside their heads. That something was removed is not in and of itself a sign of bigotry. The caption was problematic, and there could be copyright/licensing issues with the professional image that you attempted to place in the article. It isn't as simple as just grabbing an image off the internet somewhere.  Please discuss your concerns on the article talk page. We can't just vaporize the imagery that existed of a person before their appearance changed and pretend that it never existed. 331dot (talk) 12:54, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, the image can only be changed if there is a newer photo that complies with Image policy- in particular, it has to meet certain licencing requirements, that allow reuse by anyone. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:12, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * They're both on Commons so they're both equally OK. I mushed the two photos into one image so hopefully this will be satisfactory to all (I believe (not sure) that this could have been done on the page, using the "photo1a" and "photo2a" fields.) Herostratus (talk) 23:08, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Date of birth of Arnold Majewski
The sources for Arnold Majewski give two dates for his birth: 29 November 1892 and 11 December 1892. This is probably because Majewski was born in 1892 in Tallinn, Russian Empire, which had not yet adapted the Gregorian calendar at the time. How should this be marked in the article? J I P &#124; Talk 14:01, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * There is a Template:OldStyleDate, which can be used to list the Old Style and New Style dates of their birth. It looks like you've already found that template and updated the article. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:16, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I copied its usage from Grigori Rasputin. J I P  &#124; Talk 14:17, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

How to create the side table (right side with abstract detail)?
How to create the side table (right side with abstract detail)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShUSP 01 (talk • contribs) 16:45, 25 June 2021 (UTC)


 * It's called an infobox, : there are hundreds of different ones for different kinds of subject. The easiest way to find the right one is often to find a different article on a subject of the same kind that already has an infobox, Edit (or Edit source) that article and copy the entire section at the top that starts


 * Paste that into the article you are working on, and replace the parameters as appropriate. You will usually find the parameters explained at Template:infobox something. --ColinFine (talk) 16:53, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShUSP 01 (talk • contribs) 20:02, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Use of picture on Wikipedia
There is a picture I would want to use in a Wikipedia article: https://sotaveteraanit.fi/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Majewskin-viimeiset-hetket_600.jpg

It is from this page: https://sotaveteraanit.fi/tag/arnold-majewski/. Shown here, standing, with his back to the camera, is Finnish military hero Arnold Majewski during the Continuation War, only moments before he was shot by a Soviet sniper.

I think this would be a good thing to use to illustrate the article about him. Would the image be of use there? And if so, can I upload the image to Wikipedia and/or Commons? The image itself is over 70 years old but I don't know who the photographer was and if he is still alive. J I P &#124; Talk 18:17, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * If you don't get an answer here, try WP:MCQ where copyright experts answer questions. RudolfRed (talk) 18:59, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * After reading the cited source, it turns out that the name of the photographer was Ilmari Laukkonen. However, I have not yet found out when he died, or if by some miracle he is still alive. J I P  &#124; Talk 02:56, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Googling for "Ilmari Laukkonen" mostly finds results about famous Finnish magazine editor Ilmari Laukkonen, who died in 2013 and has an article on the Finnish Wikipedia. But I don't know if it's the same Ilmari Laukkonen. J I P  &#124; Talk 10:36, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , it seems likely to be the same man. The source says "TK man Ilmari Laukkonen" and TK probably means TK-komppania, ie army propaganda, an appropriate role for a journalist. TSventon (talk) 10:56, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * TK does mean TK-komppania, ie army propaganda. However it's still not completely sure it's the same man. Ilmari and Laukkonen are both very common names in Finland. I've asked at the Finnish Wikipedia to make sure. J I P  &#124; Talk 00:19, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

would like to add content to a list but don't want to mess up
i found another contributor to the list of EM solvers here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_EM_simulation_software

and would like to add another FEM solver here ; https://www.cenos-platform.com/antenna-design

but am afraid of messing up since i don't have good editing skills.
 * Per page guidelines, you won't be able to add Cenos to the EM page unless they have an article, and based on a quick Google search, that's unlikely. TimTempleton <sup style="color:#800080">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  23:49, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

do you mean like this as an article : https://www.everythingrf.com/News/details/12291-cenos-introduces-an-affordable-easy-to-use-simulation-software-for-antenna-design Paclogic (talk) 00:41, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

or possibly this article : https://www.mwrf.com/technologies/software/article/21163550/microwaves-rf-cenos-seeks-to-democratize-antenna-simulation Paclogic (talk) 00:44, 26 June 2021 (UTC)


 * No, not a press release, TimTempleton means an article on Wikipedia. Please read the first sentence in the Comparison of EM simulation software article, which begins The following table lists software packages with their own article on Wikipedia ... CodeTalker (talk) 02:10, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

okay i get it ! more or less this table is only related to the specific article and is useless beyond the article. So unless i can find a similar comparison article on EM field solvers with the Cenos product mentioned, then i can create a new one for the comparison. Too bad; i thought that this was a generic table, but it biased based upon the samples and time of publication. It doesn't keep current with industry changes. I will whave to keep this perspective in mind any time i see any form of tabulation of data, specifically on software comparisons. Paclogic (talk) 02:59, 26 June 2021 (UTC)


 * No,, it's not about "the specific article", nor is it about being "based opon the samples and time of publication". It is based on notability, in the special sense that Wikipedia uses the word: broadly, a subject is notable if several people wholly unconnected with the subject have chosen to publish at some length about it in reliable places. Unless and until a subject - say, some software - meets those criteria, then Wikipedia is not interested in it, either in an article of its own, or in a list of items. If Cenos meets those criteria (or the specific ones for software), then somebody can write a Wikipedia article about it (remembering that Wikipedia is basically not interested in anything that the developers or promotoers of the software say or want to say about it, only in independent commentary about it), and then it can be added to lists such as the one you mention. --ColinFine (talk) 11:06, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

i have added (2) independent and extremely well recognized industry sources and if that doesn't meet the 'respectability' of wikipedia, i don't know what you are referring to [please cite more specific details]. thanks ! Paclogic (talk) 17:30, 26 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The point is that Cenos currently does NOT have a Wikipedia article, so it can't be added to the list article. If you feel that Cenos meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability, then you are welcome to write an article about it. ColinFine has already linked to the notability policy above. Click on that link to read what "notability" (not "respectability") means here. Also see WP:COMPANY for notability requirement that specifically apply to companies. The two pages you linked to above seem to be press releases, mostly written by the company itself, and merely announce a product release, so they do not contribute to notability. You need to find several independent reliable sources that write in depth about Cenos, rather than merely announcing a release. Note that WP:COMPANY specifically lists "standard notices, brief announcements, and routine coverage, such as: ... of a product or a product line launch, sale, change, or discontinuance" as an example of "trivial coverage" that does not contribute to notability. CodeTalker (talk) 20:37, 26 June 2021 (UTC)