Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2021 March 14

= March 14 =

Question about musical groups
Could anyone please tell me if a group only qualifies for category pages like Category: Musical quintets if the group consistently has only five members, if they started out with that number and changed the amount of members over the years, or if they had five members at one or more points midway through their run?--Thylacine24 (talk) 00:49, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm going to make it explicit in the category, but The Beach Boys are now only 4/5 what they were, so it looks like five for any significant portion of their existence. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Could you please tell me how much time it takes to qualify as a "significant portion of their existence"?--Thylacine24 (talk) 12:38, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Long enough for critics to call them a quintet. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:00, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I'm a bit confused by the piped link. Could you please tell me if you're trying to "pass" some metaphorical "buck" to me by telling me to use my own judgment?--Thylacine24 (talk) 15:48, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No, I'm passing the buck to the critics. If a reliable source says they're a quintet, they belong in the category. Clarityfiend (talk) 15:52, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay. Sorry about that. Thanks.--Thylacine24 (talk) 16:44, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I also see that they were a septet for a while there. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Processing edits by a new user (with an IP address)
I noticed an edit from an IP address to Second_Bill_of_Rights&oldid=1011770530, which I reverted. Checking out the edit history associated with that account showed a variety of small contributions which are interesting but not supported by discussion or sources. I vaguely recall there being a process for welcoming new users to Wikipedia and I'm not looking to bully anybody here. What should my next step be, if any? --Edwin Herdman (talk) 02:10, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Using template sort name and ill links
Is it possible to use Template:Sortname with an ill link? I'm trying to sort Jacques De Braekeleer by "De Braekeleer" for List of monuments to Ludwig van Beethoven but not sure how to link in this case... Aza24 (talk) 03:04, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Those templates cannot be combined but you can e.g. use sort: . PrimeHunter (talk) 09:54, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Request to edit the user source
Hi Wikipedia team,

May I please request to edit the user source? I am still familiarizing myself with Wikipedia and had no idea about the rules. Could you please allow me to edit the username? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajanicharles (talk • contribs) 03:56, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This looks like your only edit so far, so just stop using your current username and create a new account with the name you want. There is a process to change the name, but it is only used for accounts that have been editing for awhile. RudolfRed (talk) 04:17, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

How to edit category?

 * ,All of the instructions given by the Administrator which is involved in my questions were little bit complex to me because i am new to wikipedia. Among the PrimeHunter and GoingBatty.your instruction has been easy for understanding.

Thank you (Fade258 (talk) 04:04, 14 March 2021 (UTC))
 * You refer to Help desk/Archives/2021 March 10 12 minutes after your original post I asked "Which type of edit are you trying to make to which category?" The problem is that it took you four more posts and two days to answer it and when you finally did, you tried to ping me with . The correct code is  . Please be specific when you ask a question. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:43, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

“Controversy” sections in articles
I am pretty sure I’ve read somewhere that “Controversy” sections in articles are deprecated. I can’t remember whether it was a policy or guidance. Anyone able to point me to what I think I’ve read? Many thanks in advance. KJP1 (talk) 07:31, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:CSECTION is the guideline that says that you shouldn't have a controversy section. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:38, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * - Exactly so! Many thanks. KJP1 (talk) 08:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Description
I wanna know how I can write info about me to this.thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anandowrld (talk • contribs) 07:50, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a form of social media where we tell the world about ourselves; please review the autobiography policy. Wikipedia is interested in what others say about you, not what you want to say about yourself.  If you want to tell the world about yourself as a Wikipedia editor or user, you may use your user page, User:Anandowrld, to do that, in keeping with user page guidelines. Your user page is not for telling anything and everything about yourself. 331dot (talk) 07:54, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the copyrights © information
Hello sir, I'm Kiran Sai from Hyderabad, India. I want to use some of your information in my upcoming book for free. For that reason, I want to know that if there is any chance to write. If possible, I'll be sending the details of my book once if I receive any mail from you. Thanking you Kiran Sai Hyderabad — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2401:4900:4E10:148E:C0D4:4EE8:6855:77D7 (talk) 10:21, 14 March 2021 (UTC)


 * See Citing Wikipedia. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:22, 14 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi. Please see Reusing Wikipedia content.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 17:52, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Informations from non-reliable sources.
Hi. I have to put some missing information on a page that I would like to promote in FL. The problem is that this information is only found on transfermarkt.com, an untrusted source. Can I enter this information on the page? DrSalvus (talk) 14:26, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * We neither desire nor tolerate promotional efforts in Wikipedia. If your intention is to promote something, then you should not be doing it. (And no, by definition we only want impartial information from reliable sources to be used here.) -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  14:30, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Orange Mike, I think the background is that Dr Salvus wants to successfully nominate a page for promotion to FL status. Dr Salvus, I think the answer is you need a reliable source for all information in a featured list. Featured list criteria requires that "statements are sourced where they appear", which links to WP:BURDEN. TSventon (talk) 14:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Is tuttocampo.it a reliable source?
Is tuttocampo.it a reliable source? DrSalvus (talk) 14:29, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , WP:RSN is that right venue to ask questions like that. Note that you should indicate what article you want to use it on, and what assertion you want to use it to support - a source may be reliable for one thing, but unreliable for another. Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)  16:43, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Do wiki instructions apply to all wikis?
Hi. I am not a native speaker of English and I would prefer to read the instructions on Wikipedia in Italian. Do wiki instructions apply to all wikis? <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Dr</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">Salvus</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 15:00, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Each language version of Wikipedia is a separate project, all with their own policies developed by the editors on those versions, so the Italian version policies are likely different than here. They are most likely not exact translations even where similar. 331dot (talk) 15:10, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * - : is correct with regards to policies. However, if you mean the technical instructions, such as how to create a table or insert a template, I believe all the Wikipedias use the same version of MediaWiki, so the Italian instructions should work just fine. Matt Deres (talk) 15:18, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I meant instructions on topics like vandalism. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Dr</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">Salvus</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 16:34, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That will be different between languages, e.g. different templates, procedures, thresholds for blocking. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:40, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Gtranslate may be of some help. WP:VANDALISM and WP:VANDALISMO have clear differences. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:47, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Codes for Up down same
I know that is the green arrow,  is the red one going down, but what is the code for the blue line that indicates no change? Thank you --Chutyo (talk) 16:28, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Update: Nevermind, I figured it out! --Chutyo (talk) 16:29, 14 March 2021 (UTC) The code is


 * For the benefit of the reader, the codes to type in are,  , and  , respectively.  J I P  &#124; Talk 00:35, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Automatic grammar error corrector
Is there a bot that automatically corrects grammatical errors? <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Dr</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">Salvus</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 18:20, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Yes, there are a variety of bots that fix a variety of errors, with a few of them errors that could be characterized as "grammatical" – but not "deeply"; writing is too "bespoke"; too dependent on context for anything but a super-complex AI to make more than superficial fixes of this nature, for clear cut cases. For example, some bots will go around fixing "they was", but you can see by that example how clearly defined and self-contained such an error must be. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:14, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

coi
I read the page about COI and wikipedian in residence. I don't find info about paid contributions from destination marketing organizations. Writing about a destination, its history, its sightseeings, its typical food (of a city or of a region etc) is it similar to writing about a GLAM institution? were there case about it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.57.253.17 (talk) 18:26, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Those are marketing organizations. This is not editing for public enlightenment, this is writing to bring in tourist dollars, and is shamelessly promotional. All our strictures about promotional editing, COI editing, undisclosed paid editing, etc. apply in full. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  20:16, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This is promotional like is promotional writing about a museum. I'm not talking about writing with POV but writing about towns with articles as stub but they must deserve long and detailed articles. For instance, is also the translating from other language to english without further modifies a COI editing?93.57.253.17 (talk) 20:42, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't really understand what you're getting at. It sounds like you're interpreting COI without really taking in the natural meaning of the words. A conflict of interest essentially means what the words mean in English in conjunction, and is not some stand in for "bad edits". A person has a conflict of interest in writing a neutral article when their "interest" ("An involvement, claim, right, share, stake in or link with a financial, business, or other undertaking or endeavor.") "conflicts" ("A clash or disagreement...") with writing neutrally—just as, for example, a lawyer has a "conflict of interest" in representing a client neutrally if they actually have an interest in not hurting the person on the other side of the legal matter because of a prior relationship with them (or an interest in the subject matter, where their own interests would be affected, that keeps them from truly neutrally representing that client). So, a person writing about a town, who is doing so to sneak in their links to a tourist website, has a COI. A person translating an article into English who does not change the poor output, but has no stake in writing about that subject has no conflict of interest (COI), but is an imprudent editor.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:15, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Twinkle options
Hi. I made a number of twinkle personal options but unintentionally took Twinkle options off the screen. So are my options above the screen. What can I do to get Twinkle to reappear in my options? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr Salvus (talk • contribs) 19:44, 14 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I'll try to be clearer: despite having activated Twinkle in the preferences I can't see it on the screen. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Dr</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">Salvus</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 20:22, 14 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I replied at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Twinkle options. Please only post a question in one place. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:36, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Archived.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  22:17, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

NCORP related question
Would this book contribute to the notability of the companies listed in it? SK2242 (talk) 19:58, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't see why it shouldn't. Has somebody suggested otherwise?Spinney Hill (talk) 10:15, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Contains factual info, but questionable whether it actually contains content that is independent of the company per WP:NCORP. See Articles for deletion/Regal Busways for discussion SK2242 (talk) 15:14, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not that clear-cut to me. If the book has an entry for every member of this class of business or if the subjects must pay for the priviledge of being in the book, then it might be a "mere business directory". A listing in a business directory does not count toward notability. I would want to see at least two other sources that count toward notability. Further, if that book's chapters are each provided by the subject itself, then it does not count as a reliable source at all. -Arch dude (talk) 15:27, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

I havent seen this particular book but from the information provided ity looks like an enthusiast's book edited by an independent editor/author. It is likely to contain for each company a brief history and a list of fleet numbers of buses with some technical details for each type of bus the company runs. The selection of which companies are listed is likely to be made by the editor/author. Some of this information is likely to be provided by the companies or can be found in the trade press. Perhaps SK2242 can confirm that this is the type of book he is talking about. Spinney Hill (talk) 10:10, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

How can I protect a page to interface administrators?
How can I protect a page to interface administrators? <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Dr</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">Salvus</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 20:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Based on the description on that page, the protection may be automatic for JS and CSS pages. What page do you think needs protection?  RudolfRed (talk) 20:30, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The page need protection is User:Dr Salvus/twinkleoptions.js — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr Salvus (talk • contribs)
 * I'm not sure what you mean by "to" interface administrators. The page can only be edited by you and interface administrators. All of them except one are also administrators and can edit fully protected pages. The page cannot be protected from editing by them. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * In this page there is this message

I panicked and maybe I asked the wrong question at the wrong time <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Dr</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">Salvus</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 20:50, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It's a standard message displayed on all js pages in your userspace if you edit them. Most users just ignore it and there are around 77,000 js pages in userspace. Interface administrators can also edit sitewide js which is loaded by all users with JavaScript. If you are really paranoid about security then don't create js pages and consider disabling JavaScript in your browser, but the latter would mean you cannot use gadgets and many other Wikipedia features. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:07, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

How do I ask for a source?
If i'm reading an article and I see a fact attributed to a historical person without attribution, how can I ask for a source to be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muirbio (talk • contribs) 20:46, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi ! You can easily place  directly after said text to produce this. Hope that helps! Thanks, EDG 543 (message me) 20:55, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Please Publish this article
Jamal Antar is a American French actor. Jamal has acted in many roles such as Italian mafia (Ncis LA), Armenian Mafia (LA's Finest), Mexican cartel (Seal team), Warlord's man (68 Whisky), ... Also he played others characters like Secret Service Agent ( The Politician), or Prisoner "Star Wars" (The Mandalorian), and is one of the most celebrated up and coming actors. Biography Jamal Antar (born December 23, 1976) is a American French actor. Jamal was born in the South of France, to immigrant parents. His father is a Property Developer in France and Morocco. His mother is a Housewife. He is the eldest of 3 brothers. Jamal grew up in a pretty rough neighborhood called "La Faourette" in Toulouse, so playing a tough Mafioso kind of guy came pretty naturally to him.

Marriage and children Married 05/23/17 at Beverly Hills court with Shanila Lawrence Antar

Upcoming
(1) French Connection Jamal Antar as Mr. Arman (Mafioso Boss) Tv Show on Amazon Prime in September 2020

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Smartowlgraphic (talk • contribs)

❌. This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Thanks, EDG 543 (message me) 21:50, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Redirects
Hi, Apologies if this is a stupid question but do we have a tool that can find redirects for an article ?, We used to have one created by but it's no longer in the View History area of articles, Many thanks, – Davey 2010 Talk 21:29, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hey, ! Don't worry, your question isn't in the least bit! I'm not quite sure about a tool to specifically find redirects, but there is a way to see every article that links to whichever article you choose. Go to the article, then on the left, under the "Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia" logo, there is a list of functions, and one of those says "What links here." Click that and you can view every single article that has a link to it. Hope that helps! Thanks, EDG 543 (message me) 21:35, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, Thank you for the kind words, There's been the odd occasion I've had a brain fart and the answer's been staring me in the face so glad that's not the case here! :), You are absolutely amazing thank you so much!. Only been editing here for 6 years yet managed to forgot "What links here" even existed!, Anyway thank you for your swift response and help it's greatly appreciated EDG 543, Take care and stay safe mate, Warm Regards, – Davey 2010 Talk 21:44, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , no problem, bud. I'm more than happy to help you with any other concerns in the future! Thanks, EDG 543 (message me) 21:47, 14 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Additionally, if you click on the page information link in the sidebar, there is a link that shows redirects to that page. RudolfRed (talk) 21:37, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Many thanks RudolfRed much appreciated. – Davey 2010 Talk 21:44, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Color Box in German
Hi, I'm trying to translate a Wikipedia page for a competition show and I require the use of Color Boxes to do so, however I don't believe that I can just simple copy and paste the English spelling into the source editor, as it says it doesn't exist. Is there a way to get Colour Boxes in German? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taylveon (talk • contribs) 22:07, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * "Color Boxes" could refer to many things. Please be specific in your question as the edit notice asks. Which page are you translating and which boxes are you having problems with? PrimeHunter (talk) 23:25, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, sorry. By "Color Boxes" I mean the boxes on the left hand side of this page, under the "Contestant Progress" chart, where they act as a key for the colours up above. Here — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taylveon (talk • contribs) 23:31, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Simply: don't. Color names are not language specific, they are part of Web standards. You may want to see Web colors for more information. --CiaPan (talk) 00:07, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars (season 2) uses Template:Color box. Color names are not language specific but templates are. German is not listed under "In other languages" at the template. Maybe you can use de:Template:Box or de:Template:Farbe. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:12, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Citation Bot, error 308
Upon clicking on a link in an article, I received an error msg:
 * 308 Permanent Redirect
 * nginx/1.14.2

A section in Meir Kahane contained and I wanted the citation bot to fill in at least some if not all ISBNs. Does the bot need more than just clicking? Pi314m (talk) 22:25, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Works for me, although the tool didn't actually find anything to change on that page since the books were not in a format it recognized. A HTTP 308 response is a redirect, not an error, in any case. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 22:56, 14 March 2021 (UTC)