Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2021 September 16

= September 16 =

Edit button on a template
How do I create a template (in my own User space) that features a relatively prominent "Edit" button, please ?

( The template I wish to add the edit button to is: User:BushelCandle/Template:Ethiopia )

--01:22, 16 September 2021 (UTC) BushelCandle
 * Do you mean like the little edit buttons you get on nav boxes and the like? The easiest way of making one of those is to use a link to the special page like so: Special:edit/User:BushelCandle/Template:Ethiopia. A couple of things to note though:
 * If you're going to be using this in articles it needs to be in template space, not your own user space
 * If the template is just going to be a copy of the existing infobox it'll probably end up at WP:TFD at which it'll probably be deleted as a single use template that includes article content. 192.76.8.74 (talk) 01:48, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your very prompt reply !
 * Yes, I do mean similar to the little edit buttons you get on nav boxes and the like - but perhaps a little bit more prominent ?
 * At Talk:Ethiopia there have been complaints that our Ethiopia article is too large. At the time, I was wrong to not take these complaints seriously since I did not realise until very recently that this humongous size caused problems with both displaying and editing on low memory mobiles.
 * I thought that if the Infobox and other clutter could be moved into a template it might be less daunting for new editors to edit the more important body text and reduce edit warring over flags and other non-important elements in the infobox (there is high ethnic and religious strife amongst many casual editors with this article right now).
 * 1) If the experiment were to gain consensus, the template would end up in template space - where it would only presumably be used on the one country article of Ethiopia
 * 2) It would replace the existing Infobox template and some other elements. My first experiment seems to have worked the way I expected. --02:19, 16 September 2021 (UTC) BushelCandle
 * You can add  to produce . See navbar for other display options. But I agree with the IP that an infobox template for a single article could easily be deleted. There has been consensus to keep them for elements (Category:Infobox element per element) but that's the only examples I know. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:45, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I was going to suggest a split, but it looks like most of the article sections are allready split into their own articles! Looking at the article as it stands I would be tempted to do a bit of trimming, most sections act as introductions to other articles so should only really be a brief overview. There's also quite a lot of repetition in some sections and a few images and tables that I'm not sure of the relevance of, for example the "economy" section contains treemaps for both 2014 and 2019, I don't think having both is really necessary. Likewise the plot of Human development index over time seems misplaced, it's a compound index including lots of measures it's not strictly an economic measurement, and I don't think a line chart really adds much over the raw data. I would also be tempted to remove the table of "Share of world GDP" since it isn't really critical information and it isn't discussed in the article prose. Just going over it and cutting out some of superfluous material would probably help a lot. 192.76.8.74 (talk) 02:47, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all the helpful suggestions !
 * I seem to have made some progress using the Navbar-header template with my current version but I still would like to make 2 improvements:
 * 1) get rid of the remarked out text and blank lines: " " right at the end of my experimental template while retaining correct button positioning
 * 2) expand the tiny "v-t-e" hint to a larger and more prominent "view-talk-edit"
 * Is this possible ? --03:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC) BushelCandle

Goofy from Mickey Mouse
Can you tell me why it says the goofy is a dog under the description. He is literally married to cow you can see the horns I don’t know how this makes sense and I do not believe that goofy is a dog just because they named him dawg in the original maybe Walt just had him be a stoner and named him dawg Because that’s something a stoner would say. Can you please fix this goofy is a cow not a dog if it is so that he is a dog can you please put facts on it other than what he is named. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:282:1900:e70:9593:fb39:16cf:11e0 (talk • contribs) 16 September 02:31 (UTC)
 * Hello, if you read the Wikipedia page here it states he was originally named 'Dippy the Dawg'. If you are seeing the results of a Google search and their information panel, Wikipedia has no control over what they display and you would need to contact them via the 'feedback' link at he bottom of the pane. Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 02:58, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia articles are based on published reliable sources, not original research by the editors or readers. The infobox in Goofy says:

Species Anthropomorphic dog


 * The source is on an official Disney website Disney.com. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:59, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It's unknown what manner of animal Goofy is, and it's debated. If you'll recall the (fictional) kids in Stand by Me debated it, 35 years ago. The above page is just some person. Yeah it's a page hosted by Disney, but it's not clear how much if any editoral oversight is exercised, and it's certainly not any kind of offical word from the Disney organization, of which the writer is not an employee I don't think.


 * Pluto's a dog, this we know. Goofy and Pluto have some similarities but are quite different in other ways. Cartoonist Art Babbitt said in 1934 "One is dog, the other human." Snopes says he's not a cow but won't definitively say he's a dog. Disney has kinda-sorta tended dogways mostly but AFAIK hasn't come down definitely on the matter. Bill Farmer, the voice of Goofy since 1987, says "He is not a dog. Pluto is a dog, but Goofy seems to be in the canine family in the same way that a wolf is not a dog, but they also are in the canine family. I think Canis Goofus is the technical Latin term for what Goofy is. He’s just Goofy."


 * If our article states definitely that he's dog, that's wrong, and you should go fix that, use the refs above and there are others (the Snopes has a link to Babbit). It should be stated as being debatable, and both sides given. I don't know if "cow" has any standing or is just a WP:FRINGE opinion. He was shagging Clarabelle, but half the cast of... well never mind about that. Herostratus (talk) 05:03, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Roundhay
Ref number 13. looks incorrect - I am sure it is - please fix if you can. Thank you 49.3.153.231 (talk) 04:04, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * You deleted two closing curly braces (i.e. ) in this edit, which I fixed. I might suggest since you've been here a while that you create an account, which affords a number of conveniences.  – Anon423 (talk) 09:05, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * They have an account but do not use it very often. This editor is very well known to HD regulars (6 years +) and there have been a number of discussions; I can point you to some if you are at all curious as well as the account name, but not sure if there are issues with giving that out. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 10:19, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

History of my serches
I was searching Brit tv shows that a friend had suggested earlier this year. But I lost the list, and I can't contact my friend. Perchance is there some way of pulling up my serches from the past? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Burnarz (talk • contribs)
 * If you accessed the pages from a web browser, you can look up your browser history, assuming you did not delete it. (The keyboard shortcut is ctrl+H in most desktop browsers; the history is there in mobile browsers too in some menu.)
 * If you accessed the pages from the application, the tabs might still be open, but if you closed them I believe you are out of luck. (This is from a quick test on my phone; possibly I missed some button in a submenu.)
 * From the Wikipedia server side, this might be technically possible (by looking up the http logs for a given IP address etc.) but realistically it is not going to happen. Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 09:55, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * In the Android app, press the "Search" button on the bottom bar (not the search bar near the top) while on the start page to see your history. – Rummskartoffel 13:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Vital records
Hi WikiEditors,

Can anyone please explain why Wikipedia uses no direct citations of Vital records (or whatever you wish to call them)? They are absent even from biographical articles. Is the issue one of being a 'primary source'? If so, would that be fixed by reference to copies on genealogical websites? AFAICS, there is no appropriate citation template.

Regards RAClarke (talk) 10:53, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, government documents/records are considered primary sources. It doesn't matter if they are from the government itself or a third party. 331dot (talk) 11:18, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I somewhat disagree with here. Primary sources can still be used for non-controversial information, and dates / places of birth etc. are unlikely to be points of contention. The reasons vital records are not used, in my opinion, are rather that (1) they rarely provide useful information and (2) what they do provide often goes against the spirit, if not the letter, of WP:BLPPRIVACY (when it comes to living or recently-deceased persons).
 * I did cite such a source at Henry_Darcy, to support the spelling of that person’s first name (which is not totally uncontested). It is somewhat questionable, but no better contemporary sources were available when I looked. Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 12:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Tigraan is absolutely correct; please excuse my poorly worded answer. 331dot (talk) 13:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi WikiEditors
Thank you for your clarification. At a rough estimate, about 60% of claims on Wikipedia regarding life events include no supporting inline citation. Where citations are included most point to sources whose general reliability may be adequate but which themselves indicate no source for the event.

What is your recommendation in the case where I believe a claim to be in error but for which I can find only a primary source, or a source as above. The individual concerned died in 1842. Is 'original research' avoidable in this?

Regards RAClarke (talk) 15:01, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * If it was an 1842 death, a trawl through historic newspapers might be beneficial. There are many online now. Mjroots (talk) 15:58, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello, . If the information is unsourced, then anybody is entitled to remove it (though it's preferable to find a source and add it). If the only source you can find is primary, then as long as it is uncontroversial factual data, you can use that source. The problem comes if the information which you believe to be wrong is in an apparently reliable source. In general, if two reliable sources give different answers, the article should just report this fact, and not attempt to adjudicate between them. In my opinion, if the information is suitable for taking from a primary source, then that approach would also be appropriate if one of the sources was primary. --ColinFine (talk) 16:08, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestions. I am still going through - List of online newspaper archives. Three references so far, though not to the place of death, unfortunately.

The existing claim, though plausible, is unsourced. I will try flagging a 'citation required' and see what happens. Apparently, an academic work of biography is upcoming. This may supply a usable reference.

Regards RAClarke (talk) 17:52, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

OK. Panic over. Jackson's Oxford Journal. Nice, if a little costly. Thank you.

Regards RAClarke (talk) 19:25, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * - I don't know where you are, but I get access to many online newspapers free of charge via my library's website. JOJ being one of them. I'm in Kent, UK. Mjroots (talk) 03:02, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Need help to write a biography
I am looking for assistance to write a biography of a living religious personality, he is one of 500 influential Muslims however there is no information about him on Wikipedia. He is very different from mainstream religious concepts and has significant opposition due to him challenging the normal religious concepts.

So looking for help.

This is his website Www.MuhammadShaikh.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.133.24.96 (talk • contribs)
 * You have asked this here and at the Teahouse WP:TEA. Please stick to one venue to save extra work by the volunteers here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:53, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * IP you have received a response at the Teahouse. Please do not ask the same question here because as Mike Turnbull said, it gives the volunteers extra work. Blaze The Wolf &#124; Proud Furry &#124; Discord: Blaze Wolf#0001 (talk) 14:51, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Viewing history
Hello,

I lost all my viewing history on my device. How can I recover past history?
 * If you're referring to what pages you've looked at that isn't something related to Wikipedia but the browser you're using and the device. However if you're talking about the edits you've made to articles those will all be under Special:Contributions for your account. Blaze The Wolf &#124; Proud Furry &#124; Discord: Blaze Wolf#0001 (talk) 16:25, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

en.wikipedia.org vs en.m.wikipedia.org
What is the difference? hydnjo (talk) 16:29, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * One is the mobile view, one is the desktop view. You can switch between them at the bottom of the page. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:32, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * You'll see .m. denoting the mobile site all across the web, FYI. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 16:32, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Along with the above, unless an editor has specifically made the desktop page show, most links coming from a mobile web editor will be en.m Blaze The Wolf &#124; Proud Furry &#124; Discord: Blaze Wolf#0001 (talk) 16:36, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Which is why it is so much better to use wikilinks to Wikipedia pages rather than URLs: the software will display them appropriately to the device you are on. --ColinFine (talk) 14:31, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks folks hydnjo (talk) 16:50, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Authority control transclusion trouble
How come Barack Obama and Narendra Modi have a link  rendered at the bottom (above the cats)?--Hildeoc (talk) 17:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I have a feeling it's not supposed to actually show . THere are some other pages that have it rendered correctly. I'll take a look at them to see what might be causing an issue. Blaze The Wolf &#124; Proud Furry &#124; Discord: Blaze Wolf#0001 (talk) 18:44, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * No, it's not supposed to show that, it's because the page has hit the template limit, see below. 192.76.8.74 (talk) 18:47, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Yep you're right. I would remove some templates but I don't know what templates need to be there and what can be removed. Blaze The Wolf &#124; Proud Furry &#124; Discord: Blaze Wolf#0001 (talk) 18:49, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The pages are too large and they've gone over the template limit. To prevent DOS attacks mediawiki will only allow pages to transclude 2Mb of content while expanding templates, if the page gets larger than that any additional templates will not be transuded into the page and will instead be replaced with a link to the template or module. If you look in the HTML source code for the final rendered page you'll see a report on the various parser limits. For Barack Obama it is:


 * You can see the page has hit the limit on Post‐expand include size. To solve this you need to make the article smaller by removing some templates or splitting some content into other articles. 192.76.8.74 (talk) 18:46, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the explanation. Looking at Billie Jean King, for instance, this article actually does not seem that large at all, though. What exactly is the problem there causing the nav boxes not to be rendered?--Hildeoc (talk) 14:55, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The article had too many navboxes, and they were wrapped in navboxes (sometimes multiple levels of wrapping), which makes the problem worse. Changing the article to use navboxes top/navboxes bottom instead fixed the problem. * Pppery * it has begun... 16:27, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem there is the navboxes themselves, which are using up 1.7mb of the 2mb limit. The issues is especially bad because the navboxes are wrapped inside multiple layers of navboxes which means that their size is being counted three times, once when the software processes the navbox, once when it processes the inner list and once again when processing the outer list. Add a few hundred citation templates, some rather large block quotes set in templates, an infobox and some other miscellaneous templates and you hit the 2mb limit. 192.76.8.74 (talk) 16:34, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you all. Now all except for Narendra Modi are fixed.--Hildeoc (talk) 18:43, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

How can I make my page go live?
How can I make my page go live? I added my references.

Thanks

Dr. Gena Ross — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Gena Ross (talk • contribs)
 * Your page was "live" in that people could see it if they know where it is; however, it was promotional and had to be deleted. If you want to write an article to formally make it a part of the encyclopedia, you have made some errors.  Your user page, the page you edited, is not article space and not searchable by search engines.  It is not a place to tell anything and everything about yourself, but it is a place to tell about yourself as a Wikipedia editor or user.  If you want to write an article about yourself, this is strongly discouraged, see the autobiography policy, as people naturally write favorably about themselves. Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources with significant coverage state, showing how the topic meets the special Wikipedia definition of notability.  In your case, you would need to meet the definition of a notable politician. Typically, a mere candidate for office does not merit an article.  If you win the general election, then you would.  Wikipedia has no interest in helping your campaign; we just summarize independent sources.
 * New users cannot directly create articles, and must use Articles for Creation. If you truly feel that you merit an article, that is what you should do- but this, again, is strongly discouraged. 331dot (talk) 20:08, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

activity log
Is there some form of record of the wiki sites I go to? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GabrielDDavis (talk • contribs)
 * Only if you make an edit. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  20:26, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Special:CentralAuth/GabrielDDavis will show when your account is created at a Wikimedia wiki. This happens the first time you visit it while logged in. If you mean going to individual Wikipedia pages then there is no log, except maybe in your own browser history. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:43, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It is most likely that the WMF servers keep logs of incoming connections, like many sites do. These logs would commonly be a list of entries with the return IP address, date/time of request, and the type of request. It is very unlikely that any human is digging through those logs by hand, and improbable that they are looked at for any reasons other than security incidents (such as a DDoS attack). Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 12:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)