Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2022 August 17

= August 17 =

Personally Offensive edit
I made an edit to a page and it was reverted with the comment that my edit was "simple-minded". That is, it is a comment, made, about me being a simple minded person. People have minds not comments. So, their response was a personally directed slight to me. I do not want to engage with the contributor to "talk" about the edit as I do not want to be victim again to their offensive behaviors. There was no button or option to "report" the edit as being offensive, personally offensive, etc. JohnIsRight (talk) 00:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * @JohnIsRight Welcome to the Help Desk. I looked over your 3 edits, which were rolled back by User:Avatar317. They didn't call you simple-minded, rather they called your explanation simple-minded. I would have preferred a friendlier edit-summary, but agree with their revert. Removing sources as you have done, should be done with caution. See WP:REFBEGIN. Hopefully future edits will be more satisfactory. Kind regards, ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 00:26, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, . The other editor did not call you simple-minded (which would have been a personal attack) but rather they described your explanation that way. And the editor also provided a pretty convincing argument for why that content should stay in the article. It is supported by a reference to a book published by Routledge, a reliable academic publisher, called "The Digital Transformation of Labor: Automation, the Gig Economy and Welfare". That's a solid source that should only be removed for a very good reason, not according to the personal opinion of one editor. You are free to discuss the matter at Talk: Minimum wage, and try to build consensus there that it should be removed. Cullen328 (talk) 01:53, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

WOODY
IM WILLIAM WOODY ENLIGHTEN ME PLEASE. 2603:6080:3D08:B00:B0CB:218:C0C2:B1F0 (talk) 02:21, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Your question is a bit unclear. Could you please clarify? Thanks. weeklyd3  ( block &#124; talk &#124; contributions) 02:22, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * NVM 2603:6080:3D08:B00:B0CB:218:C0C2:B1F0 (talk) 02:26, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I SEE KINDA
 * WELL I WRITE MUSIC AN WORK A JOB 2603:6080:3D08:B00:B0CB:218:C0C2:B1F0 (talk) 02:25, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * See Enlightenment (spiritual). -Arch dude (talk) 05:10, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * See also Musical composition and WP:SHOUT.Shantavira|feed me 08:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Make a wish?
make a wish is for children is there any wish programs for adults? I am a disabled vet and need a way to transport my electric wheelchair. Preacherclown (talk) 04:34, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Preacherclown: You're better off contacting someone from Make-A-Wish. Wikipedia can't help you here. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This is the help desk for using and editing Wikipedia, so we are not equipped to answer this question. You might take a look at GoFundMe, but the VA is probably more reliable. -Arch dude (talk) 05:14, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Preacherclown unless you wish has something to do with wikipedia, we can't help you. N1TH Music (talk) 16:13, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

How to make new page
How to make new page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikikoolr (talk • contribs) 06:58, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Making a new article(not a "page") is the most difficult task to attempt on Wikipedia. It is a good idea to first gain experience and knowledge by editing existing articles, in order to get a feel for how Wikipedia operates and what is expected of article content. It's also a good idea to use the new user tutorial.  Doing these things greatly increases your chances of success in writing a new article, as opposed to diving right in.
 * However, if you wish to attempt to create a new article now, you will first need to gather independent reliable sources with significant coverage of the topic that you will summarize in the article you want to write. If you then examine the relevant definition of notability depending on what you want to write about and the topic meets that definition, you may visit Articles for Creation to create and submit a draft. Please read Your First Article. 331dot (talk) 07:03, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Élisa Mercœur
Hi Folks!! I renamed this article at Élisa Mercœur. Its now the same as the French article. It had it as Elisa Mercoeur. I think the Élisa bit is correct, seems to reflect the sources, but the Mercœur surname, would that be correct in English? It looks odd, so I'm not sure. Thanks.  scope_creep Talk  08:16, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks right to me, and that’s what ref #2 has. I recreated the redirect Elisa Mercoeur (any reason you decided to delete it when moving the article?).
 * By the way, we have an article about Œ, which is apparently used in English (from French loanwords but still), so the case to do a transliteration is fairly weak. I think the rule (beyond WP:COMMONNAME) is that non-Latin-script names are transliterated (thus Владимир Ленин and 豊臣 秀吉 get English names as Vladimir Lenin and Toyotomi Hideyoshi), but we keep Latin script names (hence Ratko Mladić with a ć, Manuel Azaña with an ñ, Tunalı Hilmi with a dotless i).  Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 08:46, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Thats fine. I wasn't sure. I seems to match the French wp article now.    scope_creep Talk  10:09, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Adding a custom parameter to an existing infobox template
Hi there, I'm looking to add a "Public access" parameter to the infobox on the page Ballinacarriga Castle, such as can be found on Template:Infobox monastery. The Ballinacarriga Castle page has the infobox for a historic site, and I'd like to add the public access parameter to the page, without effecting the template generally. Thanks in advance! Xx78900 (talk) 08:37, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure there's no way to add a parameter to an infobox without adding to the template, and potentially affecting every page that uses it. In any case, Template talk:Infobox historic site. Perhaps WP:WikiProject Infoboxes would be a better place to start. ColinFine (talk) 15:23, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Named REF reordering
Editors can use either the order (A) for first use and  for any subsequent use, or (B) any other order; however, I suspect that while editing I'm not alone in expecting/hoping to find order (A).

If I radically reorder the content of an article, I should attend to various housekeeping chores; but one thing I'll want to do (even if it's unnecessary) is restore that former order, whereby the first instance of any citation is the one whose "source" has all the details.

For a long article, this restoration could be tedious "by hand", but perhaps easy with a bot. Has some kind person created a bot that will (semi-) automate the task? -- Hoary (talk) 09:18, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * In case you were not aware, WP:COSMETICBOT forbids a bot that would do only that kind of edits. So it would have to be bundled with other, non-cosmetic edits.
 * My first thought was "maybe this is in AWB"? And there is something that is similar in the list of general fixes, but not quite the thing, but close enough that maybe it does it. I suppose you could test that. (The "general fixes" is stuff that AWB does automatically when you use it to do other, non-cosmetic stuff.) Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 15:32, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you,, for the tips. And for the salutary reminder of my near-complete ignorance of editing tools. I'd encountered the name AWB but never bothered to read up on it. Now that I do, I see that it's for Windows. Still, there's a Javascript alternative. On the third hand, I suppose I could borrow a Windows computer. On the fourth, while "duplicate copies of the same reference are condensed to the abbreviated format", there'd be no duplicate copies; and if there were, it would be good to know which of them would be condensed. Oh well, I'll stumble ahead, "manually". -- Hoary (talk) 21:34, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Hoary: You could still try requesting a script; a script that just adds these fixes to edits that already make non-cosmetic changes would be permissible. Rummskartoffel 11:33, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you, . Well, it all turned out to be a false alarm. Simply, the article (as it was) could be thought of as being in two parts: a short first part with a fair number of references, some of which were repeatedly reused; and a much longer second part with dozens of references, virtually none of which were ever used a second time. The first part didn't obviously need rearrangement; the second part did. This all meant that the rearrangement had hardly any effect on reference order. Not only was there none of what I describe above (which anyway could be dismissed as merely cosmetic); there were only one or two instances of a visibly wrong order ( and the like). And fixing the latter was easy: I just searched the preview for, looking for poor combinations. -- Hoary (talk) 00:15, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

How is it that the (arguably) most famous "vaccine skeptic" in America today, Barbara Loe Fisher, doesn't have a Wiki entry?
If you search her name on the big G, you get referred to her organization, the "National Vaccine Information Center", but there are no links for her or the other founders of NVIC - this seems deliberate to me, in some sense, that prominent people like this don't have their own pages. 37.205.58.148 (talk) 13:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia reports on what has been written about a subject in multiple reliable sources; see WP:GNG for more information. If a person is not (yet) the subject of an article on Wikipedia it can be because no-one has yet written one or because there is insufficient coverage in usable sources. If this person is notable in the Wikipedia sense an article will likely be produced in due course. There is no deadline and no automatic right to an article. Eagleash (talk) 13:34, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * And to address the accusation. It's not deliberate, it will be because of the reasons given above. - X201 (talk) 13:42, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I will point out that Barbara Loe Fisher redirects to National Vaccine Information Center, so if people are searching for in formation about her they at least get information about the organization she co-founded. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 14:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Out of curiosity, what is their logo supposed to be? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Madonna (art)?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 18:06, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That actually seems plausible. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:08, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, the of the redirect shows that there was an article until 2010, when it was redirected.  Relevant discussion behind that decision can be found at Talk:National_Vaccine_Information_Center/Archive_1. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 14:46, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * See WP:BASIC. If you conclude "Yeah, I have those sources, no problem!" move on to WP:BLP and then WP:YFA. Note however that it is difficult to create an acceptable WP-article without any previous WP-experience, so it is recommended to get some of that first. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:23, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The BLP on Babs was redirected to the NVIC article more than ten years ago as a solution to BLP issues. Babs is all about the NVIC, so much so that the only things she is notable for are NVIC related, the redirect seems proper and inevitable. -Roxy the dog with opposable thumbs 14:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Hamann
Hi. I dipped a toe in the water as I was doing a little research and came to the Brigitte Harman entry. There were unsourced honours. I looked into some Couldn't find sources and removed. Then I looked at the last one...Friedrich-Schiedel-Literaturpreis [de] (1998). I can't find a source but there is a pic of Brigitte Harman receiving the award in the article. I thought of removing that also but now I'm thinking am I doing more harm than good. Can you give me some guidance please. Thanks Paul Lukewarmbeer (talk) 14:43, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be blunt but your research skills seem inadequate for such work. Your example in was the Kreisky Preis. The entry linked "[de]" to de:Bruno-Kreisky-Preis für das politische Buch, a book prize as should be expected for an author. She is also listed there although other Wikipedia languages are not reliable sources. Your edit summary indicated you looked at https://www.kreisky-forum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Menschenrechtspreis-Programm.pdf but that's a human rights prize. If you want to check whether Brigitte Hamann won the Kreisky Preis in 1997 then the obvious thing to do is make an Internet search like . This immediately finds reliable sources. I suggest you restore all the prizes unless you make much better research to show problems, and then you can add citation needed because I want to give others a chance to look for sources. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:22, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The section had so others did have six years. Still, I would like better research before actually removing prizes. Some articles just don't get much attention and citation requests can be ignored for many years. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:59, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok :) Lukewarmbeer (talk) 17:58, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Annotated Learning
By using story form as a method to help students learn concepts. I would use 2604:2D80:920E:2B00:F8F0:53B2:4F27:2732 (talk) 16:31, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Do you have a question about using or editing Wikipedia? Rummskartoffel 16:43, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is a concise, general-knowledge encyclopedia, written in an encyclopedic style. Therefore, what you propose is not appropriate to Wikipedia as it exists today. However, Wikipedia has a section called Village pump (idea lab), where visionary ideas for future Wikipedia projects may be discussed in depth and at length.--Quisqualis (talk) 00:45, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Error on page
On the page about Frank W. Preston, it has his birthdate of June 14, 1896. But under his Biography; Early life, it states he was born May 14, 1896. 208.103.121.66 (talk) 16:51, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello IP! I've gone ahead and fixed the error you mentioned. The correct birthdate was under the "Early Life" section as according to the ref, May 14 is correct. Thanks for pointing it out! ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 16:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Add someone to Wikipedia
Dear Wikipedia, Who is Israel ‘Izzy (Mr. Salsa) Sanabria? An artist, a Legendary Host, Entrepreneur, Creator, Stylistic, Actor, Performer, Musician, Entertainer, Fashionista, Latino Historian, Activist, Realist, Legendary and Salsa Hall of Famer. Where is Izzy Sanabria, The Artist, Legendary Host, Entrepreneur, Creator, Stylistic, Actor, Performer, Musician, Entertainer, Fashionista, Latino Historian, Activist, Realist, Legendary and Salsa Hall of Famer on Wikipedia? This legend paved the road for Fania, Fania All Stars, Salsa’s Perfect Combination and Latino Generations for years with his Hosting Voice, Artistry, Album Creations, Magazines, Fashion Styles, and so much more. Hundreds of thousands of people throughout the globe know who Izzy Sanabria is, why not Wikipedia? In the 1960s, 70s and 80s, Mr. Sanabria, did not only touch thousands of people throughout this country with his artistic talents and unquestionable entertainment capabilities. He sported some of the most unique male fashion trends, inspiring many of us growing up within the five boroughs of New York City and abroad. For example, He’s the gentleman seen dancing and sporting a red suit in the beginning of the 2007 movie, ‘El Cantante,’ the life of Hector LaVoe with superstar celebrities, Marc Anthony and Jennifer Lopez. Like the Bee Gees, who were colossal to us all in music and entertainment as singers, so was Izzy Sanabria in the world of Latino music and entertainment as a host, artist, actor, writer, publisher and so much more. Izzy (Mr. Salsa) Sanabria was at the forefront of every Fania Salsa Introduction throughout the globe. The Fania consisted of many legendary talented musicians like; Larry Harlow, (who was the first to enter Fania) Ray Barretto, Bobby Valentin, Willie Colon, Hector LaVoe, Roberto Roena, Jorge Santana, Celia Cruz, Barry Rogers, Ismael Quintana, Ismael Miranda, Bobby Cruz, Cheo Feliciano, Pete “El Conde” Rodriguez, Justo Betancourt, Santos Colon, Yomo Toro, Ruben Blades, Mongo Santamaria, Richie Ray, Joe Bataan, Papo Lucca, Adalberto Santiago, Eddie Palmieri, Tito Puente, Andy Montañez, Louie Ramirez, Jimmy Sabater, Orestes Vilato, Manu Dibango, Luis Perico Ortiz, Bobby Rodriguez, Renaldo Jorge, Hector Bomberito Zarzuela, Manu Dibango, Larry Spencer, and of course, the founders of Fania, Jerry Masucci and Johnny Pacheco. Before the disco explosion of the 1970s, Fania’s explosion was ten years ahead of its time and like a revved up locomotive at full throttle with no brakes, it swept through the 1970s music revolution, 1980s, hip-hop and 1990s, rap. Although Fania members have faded away in 2022, Fania music still continues its compatibility with Reggaeton on radio stations. Fania’s magical contemporary style of Salsa music touched many generations of all ages and even now in 2022; we listen faithfully as though it was yesterday. Times have changed and so have the morals and values of people. Many musicians today don’t possess the caliber and cooperationist, held by the Fania musicians and entertainers like Mr. Salsa, Izzy Sanabria. To form a new Fania and find a new Izzy, will take a miracle. Continuous dedicatory, genuine commitment in partnership, workmanship and total cooperation in every aspect of entertainment and management are the DNA molecules which created and kept together this legendary organization and this man (Izzy) for so many glorious years. Dear Wikipedia, I just gave you the tip of the Latino Iceberg, Who is Israel ‘Izzy’ Sanabria and why is he not on Wikipedia? Thank you for your cooperation, consideration and sincere understanding. Respectfully Submitted,

72.189.255.25 (talk) 18:14, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Everything you've written is absolutely inappropriate for Wikipedia. No reliable sources are cited, and it is written in a promotional manner. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:17, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The dry answer to the question "Why isn't he on Wikipedia" is simply "Nobody has yet written an encyclopedia article about him which shows that he meets Wikipedia's standards for inclusion." Such an article needs to be based on reliable sources which are independent of the subject.  It also needs to be written from a neutral point of view, whereas the above text is anything but--indeed, I felt the need to check whether it was a copyright violation from a press release, other promotional materials, or from his own web site.  Remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and as such the inclusion of phrases like "like a revved up locomotive at full throttle" and "for so many glorious years" would be deemed as completely unacceptable.  Hope this helps.  --Finngall talk  18:40, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * If you're writing in a promotional manner, please take a look at WP:PRPEOPLE. RteeeeKed 💬📖 18:45, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Writing walls of text that are crammed to the gills with promotional bullshit doesn't convince us editors to look towards your draft; it convinces us to look towards WP:COI/N. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 18:41, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * As you can see, there's hostility to promotional articles. Nonetheless, there might be something here. Sanabria is mentioned in a few articles, including the Salsa music article, and there's some coverage crediting his efforts to popularize the term "salsa": [], [], [], [], [] (in Spanish), []. But in addition to the advice you've been given above, you might be better off proposing an article at WikiProject Latin music/Missing articles. And since there are way more proposed articles than editors to write them, you could mention on the Salsa music talk page that you proposed an article about him, to generate interest from volunteers who are interested in salsa. You could use a less promotional version of your above text to make your case, and add the sources I found to your request. TimTempleton (talk)  (cont)  19:45, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this guy looks to be notable per @Timtempleton's sourcing. Anyone interested in music and addressing systemic bias on WP? Valereee (talk) 20:29, 17 August 2022 (UTC)