Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2022 February 9

= February 9 =

Merge columns in table
Australian_Senate_committees

This section has a table discussing eight basic committee-related rules, and as five were changed several years ago, there are two columns to show their status before and after the change. Since the other three weren't changed (the two columns are identical), I'd like to have a single double-width box so it's instantly obvious that nothing changed in those areas. Is this possible? I tried blanking one of the two columns in the last row (deleting everything after the first "majority of members"), but when I previewed, the current boxes were still there, and the only change was that one was blank. 122.150.71.249 (talk) 03:41, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ via VisualEditor. GoingBatty (talk) 03:57, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

How to create an 'External links' section on a page which doesn't have one
https://johnpeacepianist.wixsite.com/arthur-hutchings is the page on which I need to create an 'External links' section. I don't know how to do this. Please give instruction Corvedale (talk) 13:12, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * You seem to have created the Section correctly here at Arthur Hutchings. Then you just need to put something like * Hutchings life and work with audio, documents, photos to link to the website you've quoted here using a single square bracket round the link + text. More-or-less what you currently have but reversed. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:49, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * That page seems like something WP:SPS, but in context fairly harmless. However, the article needs better referencing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:53, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Corvedale Also, in what sense is the picture in the article your "own work"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:59, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

In uploading the image Wikipedia gave me two options "own work" or "copyright". Since there is no copyright on the image it seemed correct to select "own work". In detail - prior to my upload there was not a single image of Arthur Hutchings on the web. I would say he was "camera shy" as a personality - I knew him well, he was my professor. The photo was given in 1975 to his good friend and former student Ronald Burrow who helped me with my researches and gave me a copy of the photo. I cannot see any reason whatever why Wikipedia should question it. I hope this resolves the matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Corvedale (talk • contribs) 14:13, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * You should probably read WP:COPYVIO then. Because if you are claiming an image as your own work when it isn't your image, that would probably be a copy violation. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 14:16, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I think "own work" means you took the picture. It IS your "own work," not you "own" the work. Uporządnicki (talk) 14:18, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @AzseicsoK except they didn't take the picture. Someone else gave it to them from what they just said. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 14:20, 9 February 2022 (UTC)::
 * User:Blaze Wolf, yes, you're understanding me kind of backwards. First, I was really answering him, not you (should have pinged--mea culpa).  I suspect he saw "own work," and thought, "Yeah, he gave it to me, so I guess I own the work."  I was looking to explain to him that that's not what's meant by "own work."  It hadn't occurred to me before, but that phrase "own work" could be understood two ways. Uporządnicki (talk) 14:28, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah ok. I thought you were trying to disprove what I said by saying that it would technically be their own work because they took the picture even though they told us they didn't. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 14:32, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Bottom line is that the website already quoted counts as publication for wp:NFCI purposes. So needs to ask for deletion of the uploaded version from Commons and then use the non-free option of the upload wizard on English Wikipedia, carefully filling in the fair-use rationale and allowing the bot to lower the image resolution to our acceptable limits. Ask on my talk Page for help if you need it. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:47, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * That. Since the subject is no longer alive, we can have this image in the article, it just has to be done in the bureaucratically correct way. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:39, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång If by "the subject," you mean the person who appears in the photograph, then that person's being alive or dead has nothing to do with copyright. To boil it down to its (possibly over-) simplest, the original owner of Copyright in a work is the creator of the work--in this case, the photographer who took the picture. Uporządnicki (talk) 18:58, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @AzseicsoK It has to do with WP:NFCCP. If he was alive, we couldn't use that, but now we can. It doesn't have to be this pic, but it may as well be. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:03, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Corvedale: You can't assume there is no copyright. Under modern laws, copyright exists automatically and doesn't require registration nor a copyright notice. To determine if copyright has expired, you would need to know when and where it was taken, the nationality of the photographer, when the photographer died, and circumstances of prior publication. In most countries there are specific provisions for anonymous or unknown-creator works, and they may be different for photographs versus say music or writing. See c:Commons:Anonymous works as a starting point. If you were using the upload wizard on Commons for a photo that you didn't yourself create, you would choose “This file is not my own work” then either “The copyright has definitely expired in the USA” or “Another reason not mentioned above” or “I found it on the Internet — I'm not sure”. (The local Wikipedia upload page has different choices.) ⁓ Pelagic ( messages ) 18:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Everyone: the bigger issue is that there are historical photos which are worth preserving, and are unlikely to ever attract a takedown notice, but we can't host them because we are so strict about copyright and free licensing. ⁓ Pelagic ( messages ) 18:46, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Links to imdb that looks like wikilinks
I just noticed this in Tom_Donahue_(filmmaker). Live and learn. Can we stop it somehow? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:47, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think that we can. Someone has to notice the external link icon next to the bluelink. Note that we even have some widely-used templates which deliberately put such links into articles. For example and the like is widely used in articles on enzymes. Most of the sort of link you noticed could of course be turned into proper citations as an alternative to deletion and that would normally be preferable. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:05, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull, I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Your link looks fine, like an external link should. Zach Horowitz however, "masks" as a wikilink, which I find annoying. Also, imdb is very rarely a good citation. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:41, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I see the issue. You even managed to fool me into thinking it was a page with the link on it. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 14:43, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Btw, I should have linked Tom_Donahue_(filmmaker), it's more on point. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:42, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Cirrus searches are notoriously unreliable, but these searches seem to suggest that there aren't all that many articles that use the interwikis:
 * imdbname ~640
 * imdbtitle ~790
 * There are four imdb interwikis listed at Interwiki map.
 * Likely, most, if not all of them, can (should) be replaced with their template equivalents:, , etc.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:45, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, sorry, I looked at the edit history of the article and thought you were talking about this diff where you removed an EL. As you say, the Zach Horowitz type of link is more problematic and difficult to notice. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:53, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:54, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * That may be so in general, but in the specific case of the text in Tom_Donahue_(filmmaker), those template equivalents would not fit. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:53, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Things like imdbname:1920886 should never be used. We need to be very specific how we let users know they are leaving wikimedia. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:03, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * That's what I'm thinking, though there may a legit use somewhere on WP. There's also WP:EL which is fairly clear. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:13, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * For this specific usage, which we all seem to agree is bad, can an edit filter be used? Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:16, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * If not, I may start going through TTM's lists manually. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:26, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull, an editfilter wouldn't help with current content, would it? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:43, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think so but I'm not an expert. I'd happily assist you in purging the current ones from the search but I don't think that's a good idea until a filter is in place to prevent the issue arising again. Is this a topic for WP:VPT? Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * One can always ask. Edit filter noticeboard perhaps? However, I don't think it's necessary to wait to start "cleaning." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:03, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull, other interested, asked at Edit_filter_noticeboard. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:45, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I suppose one could also ask someone to look at it from a bot-perspective, but I don't feel hopeful that would work. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:17, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull, other interested, asked at Edit_filter_noticeboard. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:45, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I suppose one could also ask someone to look at it from a bot-perspective, but I don't feel hopeful that would work. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:17, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Comment I'm told that these links have "good" uses on Wiktionary and Wikisource. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I have a line in my CSS that at least underlines all interwikilinks so it becomes easier to notice them. (That doesn't help alert others to the problem, but may help you find them so you can fix them). —Kusma (talk) 17:23, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks,, that does indeed help and will be very useful if we start a clean-up. The line is .extiw{text-decoration:underline !important} in case others are interested. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:37, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Like TTM said, there are 2 other potentially problematic interwiki links, IMDbCompany (found it in 2 articles, dealt with) and IMDbCharacter (found it in 1 article, started afd), but they don't seem to be much of an issue. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:57, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * This is not what you are asking for, but it might be of interest.

a[title^="imdbname:"]::after{content:'\01f5d7'}
 * This CSS rule adds an icon after all imdbname links. You will need to add it to your personal design definitions in order for it to work properly as intended. Utfor (talk) 18:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Reporting IP address
I have discovered anonymous disruptive edits on Ingersoll District Collegiate Institute, however, since they are done outside an account, I am unable to leave a talk page message. What should I do instead? Hcoder3104 (talk) 14:15, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * - I've reverted the most recent bit of vandalism. Disruption at the article is low level, although you may wish to watchlist it. Feel free to undo any vandalism you come across. Mjroots (talk) 14:19, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Mjroots Is there anyone to contact to add confirmed or registered rights to the page? Hcoder3104 (talk) 14:21, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * If the vandalism continues you can request page protection at WP:RfPP ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 14:24, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, you can still leave a talk page message if it's an IP. Since you are autoconfirmed, you may want to try WP:TWINKLE. ― Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 14:25, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * - if you mean semi-protecting the article, it needs an admin to do that. The level of disruption does not justify semi-protection at the moment. Mjroots (talk) 14:34, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Especially since that article was last edited in November 2021 (excluding Mjroots edit of reverting vandalism) ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 14:38, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Scope of English Wikipedia
Earlier today I came across a discussion at an article talk page where one user expressed the idea that "topic xxxx is about what it's called in Foo, that belongs on the Fooian Wikipedia. This Wikipedia is concerned about things in the English world". Experienced editors are generally aware that this idea is completely wrong, yet it's not an uncommon mistake by editors. However, I could not think of any place where this aspect of the scope of the English Wikipedia is properly explained; WP:SCOPE is entirely silent on the matter. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:45, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the statement to which you refer was somebody's interpretation of WP:COMMONNAME, where it says that an article title is that which is most commonly used in English-language sources. --David Biddulph (talk) 15:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, Scope doesn't mention "English" at all, which it shouldn't have too. However, if you want to add something like "Though this is the English Wikipedia, that does not imply that ... though English language sources are preferred when available." I have no objection. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:58, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:AIM does imply that the overall project is a comprehensive written compendium that contains information on all branches of knowledge. As such, it needs to make all subjects accessible to speakers in any language, although obviously the Japanese article on Tokyo might be more extensive in that language's version than here on the English version. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:01, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Talk page archive.
Can someone help me archive my talk page? ZX2006XZ (talk) 16:27, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * You'll find advice at Help:Archiving a talk page. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @ZX2006XZ try Help:Archiving (plain and simple). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:36, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * @Gråbergs Gråa Sång I solved it. ZX2006XZ (talk) 16:37, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * You still appear to be having issues getting it to work properly. If you'd like I could simply copy the code for automatic archival of my own talk page over to yours. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 18:49, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Blaze Wolf@ZX2006XZ Note that it can take several hours, perhaps 24+, before it "kicks in." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:35, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Gråbergs Gråa Sång I know that. The bot has already run today so the effect won't happen until tomorrow. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 20:37, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Problem Uploading Image without text
In looking at the Commander of the Royal Canadian Air Force page recently, I noticed that a number of photographs are missing, including my own. I uploaded a small jpg LGen Lloyd Campbell CMM CD but when I attempt to insert it, while the picture displays OK, it has accompanying text that should not be included. Can you assist in fixing this problem?

Also, since I know all of the individuals whose pictures are missing, is there someone who 'owns' this page and to whom one might send photos to make this page more complete? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by YOW1 (talk • contribs) 16:57, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello Yow! To answer your question about if someone owns the page, the answer is no. No one owns any page on Wikipedia. You can read more about this at WP:OWN. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 17:02, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @YOW1: For your first question, this edit should fix your problem. (The image syntax is often different inside templates, which is not obvious for newcomers). If you have additional pictures that could be included, one option would be to mention them at the discussion page: Talk:Commander of the Royal Canadian Air Force. To find out who wrote the article (and might have more information), check the page history: —Kusma (talk) 17:21, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * you are free to upload those images yourself, but only if you own the copyrights to the images: this is not the same as ownership of a physical photograph. If you personally take a picture with your own camera, you own the copyright to the image. The subject of the picture does not own the copyright, but it you ask each of your colleagues to upload a self-made picture, they may do so. I'm very sorry this is so complicated. The complexity is in copyright law, which we try hard to follow as best we can. -Arch dude (talk) 20:05, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Targeted
Someone has blocked me from editing, they keep citing excessive editing/vandalisam or it was advertising but every school has the same layout and they are facts. I feel our school is being targeted. Every school they listed has it laid out differently but they won't let ours be any different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Florida_Christian_School — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kah09h (talk • contribs) 17:03, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * See Dispute resolution. And note that 'other stuff exists' isn't really a good argument on Wikipedia. We know there are a lot of poor-quality articles, but that is no reason to keep them all that way. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:11, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Now under discussion at Conflict of Interest Noticeboard, as this editor has a massive conflict of interest. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  19:25, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Vandalism in Search Result Page Preview
I noticed in the search results page preview on Duck Duck Go for Indie Arie, the phrase "a hypocrite of an American singer and songwriter," whereas on the actual page it just reads "an American singer and songwriter." The vandalism doesn't show up in the Google search results.

I don't know how to fix that.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=indie+arie&atb=v1-1&ia=web — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulreynv (talk • contribs) 19:03, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * If the article on Wikipedia is correct, there is nothing we can do. You can try to report the problem to Duck Duck Go. RudolfRed (talk) 19:22, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * If there's a mismatch between what the search results say and what the article says, assume it's because the search engine hasn't updated its results or its cache to reflect the most recent edit, rather than anything malicious. Edits which adjust the lede take a little bit to update on search engines, depending on how frequently it crawls the page. —<i style="color: #1E90FF;">A little blue Bori</i>  v^_^v  Jéské Couriano 19:40, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * , that is a piece of vandalism which was in our article India Arie for seven minutes yeaterday, before it was reverted. (I haven't looked to see if that was the first time it was inserted or not). Search engines such as DuckDuckGo update on their own schedule. --ColinFine (talk) 19:54, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Similar dab pages
I have created a dab page for Selection Committee, with a link in the See also section to the dab page Committee of Selection. Should Selection Committee be a redirect to Committee of Selection, or was I right to create a seperate dab page for Selection Committee? The two titles are somewhat similar and I am not aware of a dab page policy for similar titles. Andysmith248 (talk) 19:58, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Both of these pages are incomplete as there are lots selection committees. Ruslik_ Zero 20:18, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I would think they should be separate, though they could be merged. I've added something to the Selection Committee one, and removed the Committee of Selection on that page. Skarmory   (talk •   contribs)  05:49, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
 * All right. I have created a dab page for Bristol by-election. There are dab pages for Bristol West by-election, Bristol South East by-election and Bristol East by-election. Bristol by-election holds the by-elections in all the Bristol constituencies. Should it only hold by-elections in the Bristol constituency, with links in a See also section to the other three dab pages? Andysmith248 (talk) 12:45, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Dispute Over Moderna Page
Hello

User [| Zefr] is reversing my additions to the Moderna page. I find his reasons questionable and vague, but he refuses to speak with me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Surge Of Reason (talk • contribs) 20:58, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Per their edit summaries - the reason Zefr isn't engaging on their own Talk page is because the article Talk page, in this case Talk:Moderna is the correct venue for that discussion to take place, just add your reply in the section they've created there. OcarinaOfTime (talk) 21:02, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * That user started a discussion at Talk:Moderna, you should discuss it there. Don't engage in an edit war. RudolfRed (talk) 21:03, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Institute for Science and International Security
I seem to have broken the info table on Institute for Science and International Security while adding content and it won’t let me undo it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asher Rosenberg (talk • contribs)
 * It appears you accidentaly added a few extra brackets, spearating the template from its parameters. It should be fine now. Isabelle 🔔 21:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Norco College Logo
Hello, I am the public affairs officer for Norco College. Our logo is incorrect. How can I update to the correct logo. It would not let me attach the correct one.

Here is our logo https://www.norcocollege.edu/about/Documents/identity/LogoIdentity.pdf

Here is the page I see the athletic logo used by mistake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norco_College

Please help me get this corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeslieReneeVargas (talk • contribs) 22:25, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * LeslieReneeVargas, thank you for letting us know. I have uploaded the logo using Upload/Uploadtext/en-nonfree-logo and updated the article. TSventon (talk) 22:56, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Hello ‪TSventon‬,

I placed a request to update the Norco College logo. Originally it had the athletic logo, and you changed it to the official logo, but my boss would like it be the visual brand logo (similar to what we have on our college website thumbnails). It is available under visual marks in our brand guide and is also the same maroon color. The file name is: Norco-logo-vertical-color. Are you able to update one more time. This will be in line with our official branding guidelines.

Here is the page with the visual logo I am referencing: https://www.norcocollege.edu/about/Pages/identity.aspx

Thank you,

Leslie Vargas District Public Affairs Officer, Norco College Leslie.Vargas@rccd.edu — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeslieReneeVargas (talk • contribs) 23:21, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * You can upload it yourself using File Upload Wizard, and then submit a request at Talk:Norco College with edit request to have someone add it to the article.  Be sure to also declare your conflict of interest on your user page.  GoingBatty (talk) 02:27, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
 * LeslieReneeVargas I have updated the logo as requested at Norco College, if you reply you can notify me by copying my signature as I did with yours and signing with four tildes ~ . If anyone wants to tweak the size, etc, please do. TSventon (talk) 13:07, 10 February 2022 (UTC)


 * An important precision, : that page is Wikipedia’s page about your college, it is not yours to control, and we do not care one bit about your "official branding guidelines". You have some measure of control over the logo, because if you use one logo everywhere on your website we are going to reproduce it. But we are not going to obey requests that the logo be used on the left rather than on the right of the page, or on a grey background, or other similar things. Tigraan <span title="Send me a silicium letter!" style="color:">Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 13:21, 11 February 2022 (UTC)