Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2022 June 10

= June 10 =

How do you hide/collapse a table?
Let's say that you have a very long table ... like this one, for example: List of cancelled nuclear reactors in the United States. And I want to use the hide/show/collapse option tag ... so that the reader can opt to hide or to show the long table. Specifically, I want the long table hidden by default ... but with the option to "show" the table. What is the exact "code" or "syntax" that I would type into the table, to make it do what I want? I looked at all of the help pages, etc., but I can't make heads or tails of them. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:06, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * You should probably read MOS:HIDE as to why this isn't desirable (by default). There's instructions on making something collapsible there anyway if you want to give the option to do it. WhoAteMyButter  ( 📨talk │ 📝contribs ) 02:44, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks.  Yeah, I can never quite understand the "instructions" given on Wikipedia for computer language/code/syntax.  They always make it so complicated.  Hence, I came here.  So, in that example chart that I cited above ... what would be the exact "command" to type ... and where to type it?    Thanks.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:34, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Read Help:Table, it details what you should do to make a table collapse. WhoAteMyButter  ( 📨talk │ 📝contribs ) 23:56, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Wrong information in wikipedia about VEER DURGADAS JI
Wrong information in wikipedia

1. जून 1681 में दुर्गादास ने अकबर की सहायता की, क्योंकि विद्रोह के कारण खलबली मच गई, 2.अकबर, जिसे 1704 में निर्वासन में मरना था,[8] अपने असफल विद्रोह के बाद अपने बच्चों को राठौरों की हिरासत में छोड़ दिया था

AKBAR BORN AND DIED ON Below dates and how it is possible in the era of Veer Durga Das 13 अगस्त 1638 – 22 नवम्बर 1718) को 17वीं

akbar Born: 15 October 1542, Umarkot, Pakistan Died: 27 October 1605, Fatehpur Sikri

and Duradas period form 1638 to 1718

दुर्गा दास राठौड़ (13 अगस्त 1638 – 22 नवम्बर 1718) को 17वीं स — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.98.238.227 (talk) 06:52, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your concern. I read your concern and the hindi version of the article on Durgadas Rathore. It appears that the problematic information is on Hindi Wikipedia, not on English Wikipedia. Therefore, this is not the correct place to register your concern as this is English Wikipedia's help desk. The correct place to register this concern would be hi:विकिपीडिया:चौपाल. If you need any help you can message me on my talk page, as I'm proficient in Hindi too and may be able to help you. Thank you! &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 07:46, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Reuse of named reference for inline citations of different text – possible?
Hi, the question stems from my failed and semi-fixed attempt to reuse a named reference containing a lengthy citation of a source. The problem is that said citation was appropriate for one section of an article, but completely inappropriate for another, leaving me with a bad choice between either polluting ref list with a duplicated source containing another lengthy citation, or make an article reader scratch his head.

It would be also very useful when it's needed to refer to many different pages of the same book, esp. when many books are used as sources: imo, it's much better and more convenient to mention each book in the ref list only once, but place multiple refs in article body, e.g. ... so that it's possible to quote text and not litter ref list with duplicates at the same time.

So, possible or not? If yes, then help is much appreciated, if not, I think some means to make such refs should better be created, preferably with simple and straightforward syntax along the lines of my above examples. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.66.33.217 (talk) 09:26, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * On same source/different pages, my preference is using in-text Template:Rp, but there are other ways, see for example Shakespeare_authorship_question.
 * On your first question, if I understand you correctly, you include a long quote in your cite/ref. I know of no method to "change quotes", but I rarely include quotes in my cites, is it necessary in this case? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:44, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick and useful help! Although I've been on WP for years, somehow I never came across neither Rp, nor excellent reflists like that before.
 * Regarding the last part, quotation of a source is the best approach there, because the source is very long (quotation was used by someone before me, and I appreciated it when reading the article recently).188.66.33.217 (talk) 10:22, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * One solution could be to add quotes as a separate "footnote", see Shakespeare_authorship_question. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:35, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I recently used Template:Rp at Jesse Lawson. It doesn't look great, but it gets the job done. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The SAQ article use Template:Harvard citation no brackets, btw. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:39, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I was trying that at first, but then you "litter [the] ref list" as the IP put it. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:51, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree, ctrl-f "Shapiro 2010" in the SAQ-article and see what you get. And I'm used to my trusty old reftoolbar. Otoh, with the other citevar you'd get a row of tiny letters a mile long, so it's subjective. I think the Harvard version is seen as more academic-looking. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:03, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Gråbergs Gråa Sång, thanks for your help, it was probably a bit unfair for me to not provide links, but in trade here's complete story behind the question: a few days ago I thought I'd finally read about the history of WP, and got quite fascinated by the subject. Unfortunately, the History of WP article lacked important references, and I added a few back on June 4: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:History/History_of_Wikipedia Today I decided to add an important quotation from Sanger's memoir, at first breaking a reference https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1092434552 and for now simply adding a ref with quotation (as someone did before). I'm not happy with this fix, but I'm not used to Rp yet (and can only use a mobile device, which makes editing a pain), so will play with various options in a sandbox first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.66.33.217 (talk) 11:27, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Good luck! I assume you don't register an account because you don't want to. You may find this discussion interesting: Talk:Ideological_bias_on_Wikipedia. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:30, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * And a big "thank you!" once again! If I could ask for anything else, it would be this: what style of adding refs is, from your pov, best for the History of WP article? It seems there are no regular contributors there now (my unrelated question on talk page was unanswered). Just keep adding refs with quotations from long sources as before and keep existing style? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.66.33.217 (talk) 12:01, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Per WP:CITEVAR, follow the established one, don't try to introduce Harvard citation as well. If you start an article, pick your favorite. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

ANONYMOUS DONATIONS
I want to send a little donation, but I don´t feel confortable registering some informations about me. How can we skip that request? Could I only donate registering my very first email ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.95.114.193 (talk) 11:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi IP user. I think you need to read this page on Wikimedia to see the donor privacy policy and the options you have. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:49, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Before you donate any money you might want to familiarize yourself with Wikipedia finances.--Shantavira|feed me 08:33, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Remove an article
I would like to remove the article about Helena Hedman Skoglund. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bberggren (talk • contribs) 13:07, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Helena Hedman Skoglund does not appear to have ever existed on the english Wikipedia. If this is about a different language edition of Wikipedia, you will need to use whatever process they have there. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 13:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Bberggren, if you mean sv:Helena Hedman Skoglund, try the sv page sv:Wikipedia:Wikipediafrågor. TSventon (talk) 13:27, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Please follow instructions for Swedish language Wikipedia given at sv:Wikipedia:Sidor föreslagna för radering. --CiaPan (talk) 13:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Blanking it was not the best idea, but whatever. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:54, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The dramatic twist is that they created the article! It's like M. Night Shyamalan up in here. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:01, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

How do I set up 2FA?
I asked before, but the comment was removed for some reason. How do I set up 2FA? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madmeech (talk • contribs) 17:03, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * See here, but ordinary users don't have the option of 2FA. Maybe they should, but that's the way it is.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 17:10, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Questions are archived every few days. See the answers to your previous question Help_desk/Archives/2022_June_3 RudolfRed (talk) 18:08, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh ok, thank you! Madmeech (talk) 16:53, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

DOI citation
I've had this problem before and every time I have asked anyone I have been told there is no solution. The issue is that there seems to be no way to differentiate between a DOI for a work and the DOI for a chapter. We have url and chapter-url, but as far as I can tell, no similar way to mark the different locations if the book chapters have different identifying links. I decided to post the query here to see if more eyes could find a solution. The case I am working on right now is book and chapter and the url links cannot be used because they are proxied. Thanks! (By the way, I am extremely challenged by wikitechnology, so any solution needs to be spelled out step by step.) SusunW (talk) 19:38, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * I haven't got a solution, SusunW, but I'll point out that a link is not required for a citation. The important bit is the bibli9ographic information: title, author, publisher, date. A link, if provided, is a convenience. ColinFine (talk) 21:39, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * I too don't have a solution, SusunW, but I suggest that you ask at Template talk:Citation. It's where you're likeliest to be read by those who know, and indeed also by those who might add to the templates attributes that don't already exist. -- Hoary (talk) 12:29, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks y'all, I appreciate you looking at it. I'll ask there. I know you don't have to include the links, but if you are writing an article with GA or FA in mind, it's better to have the links in for the review. SusunW (talk) 13:02, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure of the context, but I have just used the underlying doi extracted from the URL you linked with the standard citation tool to create and . Presumably you can use whichever is most appropriate source for the content you are citing (the chapter in most instances, I guess). If this isn't the solution, please provide more detail, . Note that you can combine these citations with the rp template to specify pages more precisely. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:30, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes,, I know that there are ways around the problem, but my point is that it doesn't make sense to repeatedly have to make multiple references to the same source because of a technological limitation. A classic citation gives the article name within the work in which it appears. It seems completely illogical to me that we have to work around our own technology to make a proper standard citation. If this were say a work within an edited anthology with different editors for the book and article, our coding is also limited. I should be able to cite either the editors or the author, providing links to both of their contributions, but I think it just cannot be done with our current markup without doing what you have said and making multiple reference entries. SusunW (talk) 14:14, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * And, following your advice to ask at Citation, I got an answer of how to include both in a single citation. Not a solution I ever would have figured out, but that's how wikitechnology works. Thank you so much for sending me there. SusunW (talk) 14:32, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I see you got an answer about how to include both DOI in a single citation, although I can't see a reason to do so! I thought I'd mention a couple of other ideas, . In this particular example, chapter 9 has the same authorship as the whole book but supposing it was authored by John Doe and edited by Huneke, we could have this. For a reference to another chapter/author in the same book it seems reasonable to create individual full citations crediting the respective authors separately, which is the style I used in Coral Bell. Or, as here where the book has just one author, one could use since the rp template takes any text as a parameter. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:02, 11 June 2022 (UTC)


 * thanks for that. Knowing the rp parameter will allow me to use say Intro:ii is helpful. Yet another thing that would never have been intuitive to me. Often the editors will describe what author is saying in an introduction or preface which is useful for demarcating between independent/non-independent sourcing, thus I see a need for including both links, and being able to use that markup may come in very handy in such a situation. SusunW (talk) 15:14, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Why won't my page publish?
I am new here. This is the first time I am publishing a page, or attempting to rather.

I used the sandbox feature to edit my drafts and then I hit 'publish' and I can't find the page.

I can't provide a link to the page because it isn't published yet.

Please help!

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Softwhiteunderbelly (talk • contribs) 20:31, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Link: User:Softwhiteunderbelly/sandbox. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Softwhiteunderbelly, I found the page by checking your contributions (Special:Contributions/Softwhiteunderbelly). I think you should be able to get there yourself by clicking "Sandbox" at the very top right of your screen, where it also says Talk/Contributions/etc. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:39, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * But Google isn't returning the Wiki page when I google it.
 * Also, when I search the page itself on Wikipedia it says that the page doesn't exist?
 * How do I go about publishing a page? This is for my work. I have been assigned the task of creating a page for my employer, who is a public figure.
 * The page needs to be searchable and findable...
 * Thanks! Softwhiteunderbelly (talk) 20:42, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah. There is a great deal more we need to go over, then, @Softwhiteunderbelly. First, as a paid editor, you must read and heed WP:PAID. Second, you need to go about finding reliable, independent, published sources to back up every single fact in this biography of a living person. See WP:YFA for instructions on creating your first article, Help:Referencing for beginners on how to cite sources, WP:RS to figure out the kinds of sources needed, and WP:NPERSON for our guideline on what makes a person notable by our standards (not by the standards of folks outside Wikpedia). Once you've read and followed all those instructions, you'll have a draft article ready to submit to WP:AfC. Acceptance may take months. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:50, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Softwhiteunderbelly Adding to the above, the good news is that sources like exists. Find a few of those, write your article as a summary of what they say, with inline citations. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:54, 10 June 2022 (UTC)


 * I would add to the excellent advice here,, that Wikipedia has no interest in enhancing search results for your employer or in any other benefits a Wikipedia article might bring them. Those are on the side and not our goal. There are, in fact, good reasons to not want an article about one's self. I would suggest that your employer read that. Our only interest here is in summarizing independent reliable sources. If they exist for your employer, they will merit an article. 331dot (talk) 21:26, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok, understood.
 * Thank you everyone for responding to me! Softwhiteunderbelly (talk) 21:33, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Side note: how do I go about just deleting the whole draft? Abort mission.
 * Thank you! Softwhiteunderbelly (talk) 21:34, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Softwhiteunderbelly. If you insert db-user (exactly as you see it in the display text here, including the double curly brackets) at the top of your sandbox, an admin will come along and delete it for you. ColinFine (talk) 21:43, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Now deleted. Thank you for being so understanding and reasonable about the whole deal, @Softwhiteunderbelly! Many folks come here with misunderstandings, but as long as they're willing to ask questions and listen to advice, things generally work out okay. Your employer may very well get an article someday; in that case, feel free to come back and ask more questions (either here or at the Teahouse). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)