Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2022 June 19

= June 19 =

Systemic Revertions
Hi, a user called Dennis has reverted an edit under completely unjust circumstances. He claims the website I referenced is 'unreliable' without any reason given as to why and he claims it 'steals' from all around the internet, which is factually inaccurate as the writing there is original. He says it takes information from all around the internet - isn't that the point of valid citations? You get the same information from many independent sources?

He also says its "without giving real sources" - the article has a bibliography...

I believe this is some weird power dynamic where Dennis and now one other user are reverting the edit despite it being a well known and respected website. What do I do in this situation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaxLousada (talk • contribs) 09:57, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


 * This isn't really a help desk question. You can open a thread at WP:ANI if you are unhappy about another user's conduct.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 10:05, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't see anything that convinces me it's a trustworthy source. Refer WP:SPS. Thanks. Dr.Pinsky (talk) 10:26, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello MaxLousada. When another editor reverts your edit (which is a totally normal part of working on a collaborative project like Wikipedia) your next step (unless you decide to drop the issue) is to discuss it with the other editors, usually on the article's talk page: see BRD. Please discuss it calmly with the other editors - with the intention of reaching consensus - on Talk:Arado Ar 196. If you cannot agree, then follow the steps from dispute resolution. ColinFine (talk) 14:59, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Requests non yet completed
In past weeks I have posted 2 requests on “Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Illustration workshop” about fix and remake Wikipedia logo but there are no yet completed. I have posted in wrong page? Many thanks in advance for all your answers!!! --37.116.102.74 (talk) 15:38, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Your IP posted requests in January of 2021(a year and a half ago) and according to the edit history(here) your request was accepted. Are you referring to another request? 331dot (talk) 15:44, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Graphics_Lab/Illustration_workshop#Wikipedia_logo_resize_request
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Graphics_Lab/Illustration_workshop/Archive/May_2022#Wikipedia_logo_fix_request --37.116.102.74 (talk) 15:55, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, those were under a different IP. One request was archived, and another requested clarity which you at least attempted to provide. Requests are fulfilled by volunteers on their own time. If a request is unclear, it is much less likely to be acted on.  In reading it I'm not really sure what you are asking, either. (though I know little of image work) 331dot (talk) 16:01, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * For the second request, if I click on the image to see the graphic on its page at Commons, and click again on the image there, it seems to me that your request has already been carried out. I don't know understand why the changes aren't reflected in the smaller versions. Maproom (talk) 16:23, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

relese my own page
can i create my own pages on Wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anilsetty (talk • contribs) 20:10, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You may create an article about any notable subject that does not already have an article. If your subject does not meet our definition of notable (WP:N), do not attempt to create an article about it, because we will delete it. We delete more than 100 articles every day. After you are certain that your subject is notable, please read WP:YFA to see how to proceed. -Arch dude (talk) 20:22, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Wikipedia editing. So far, you have created an account and made just one edit from it: to this Help Desk. I hope you will help build the encyclopaedia by, for example, improving articles for topics that interest you. Wikipedia accounts each have User Pages where we can, for example, tell other users what these interests are and give some basic information about ourselves: see WP:UPYES for what may be included. These pages are not articles and are not indexed by search engines. To create your own, just click on the (currently) redlink to your Username, above; add some text and "publish changes". Please do not try to create an autobiography: (see WP:AUTO) but enjoy your time here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:19, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Frances Cornford
Dear Wikipedia,

I have been a modest annual donator to Wiki for quite a few years. I have several basic general questions about an entry for a close relative of mine that I cannot find a definitive answer to on any of your “Help” pages. I use Wiki a lot and find it very helpful, but I have to say finding out how to contact you amidst a byzantine forest of “help” links provided by you is some task.

My name is Dan Cornford. I am the grandson of Frances C. Cornford (FCC), who was a relatively famous English poet, or certainly became so after her death in 1960. Periodically, out of interest, I look up some of my famous relatives on Wiki. Three years ago I looked up the entry for FCC and was appalled by its incompleteness (See below). Last week, wishing to sending the link to a friend of mine, I looked the entry up again, and IMHO the entry was even weaker to the point where, for the first time, you said/say this above the entry: “This article may be in need of reorganization to comply with Wikipedia's layout guidelines. Please help by editing the article to make improvements to the overall structure. (August 2020) (Learn how and when to remove this template message).”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Cornford

With all due respect, I do not think the problem lies so much with layout as with content, or lack thereof. To begin with since she was the granddaughter of Charles Darwin, and the wife of a prominent classicist Francis McDonald Cornford or FMC ( for whom there is also a Wiki entry), there is no shortage of biographical information on FCC. Two omissions are especially striking: 1) In the above entry, and earlier ones, nowhere to be found is a complete list of all her published books of poetry;  2)  There is no mention of the fact that in 1959 she received the Queen’s medal for poetry. That is pretty basic and crucial information. I might add that there is only fleeting reference to two of her closest relatives, FMC and her eldest son, John Cornford, who has quite a long entry in Wiki.

Finally, and contributors cannot be blamed for this omission, is the fact that she became a British women poet of considerable stature after her death in the last decades of the C20th as experts in British women’s literature like Jane Dowson (Professor of English Literature at Montfort University, Leicester, UK and author of several books on British’s women poets of the C20th) can attest to.

As a history professor, albeit retired, and for other purposes, I have made extensive use of Wikipedia for biographical and other purposes. I greatly respect what you do, and I know that you depend on donations, and a volunteer staff, but looking at the entries on FCC over time gives me some uneasiness about the accuracy, and indeed, policies, of Wiki.

Of course I understand and respect, to a great degree, the principle of people writing and editing Wiki entries, but there are, as has been pointed out, also some obvious downsides to this. And I frankly I do not understand the extent to which you have safeguards to maintain quality control, quite aside from legal issues like copyright and libel laws. Given the later alone, however, there must be some degree of moderation by Wiki, even if by volunteer staff. However, I am finding no easy way to determine what the modus operandi of this moderation system is. I did find one reference to “protected entries” somewhere on one of your “Help” pages, but no account of what this means and how an entry qualifies for this status.

I will end with specific questions:

1)	What restrictions are there on a relative writing or amending an entry on another relative? Any at all?  Can a grandson or son undertake this task?

2)	I would be willing to greatly amend and improve the current entry on FCC, even though someone like Jane Dowson could do a much better job than me. But, and here is really THE crucial question, if I or some expert were to do this, what is to stop someone coming along the next week, and deleting it all and writing their own version???  To write a good entry, even if one if very familiar with the subject, takes a lot of time—I am sure I do not have to tell you.  I cannot possibly ask someone like Jane Dowson to do such a task, if she was willing, if her work could be nullified with a few keystrokes.

Finally, and again with all due respect, I find your instructions as to how you will communicate back to me (if you chose to do so), opaque. Please can you explain what exactly the following means on your “Help” page from which I am writing this communication: “For your own personal security, please do not provide your email address or any other contact details – especially your passwords – in your post, as this help desk is a highly visible page and all information placed here can be seen by the general public immediately. Answers will be provided on this page only; we are unable to provide answers via email or any other method outside Wikipedia.”

In short, if you have time to answer my questions above, exactly how will I hear back from you?

To an even better Wikipedia and very sincerely,

Dan Cornford

Davis, California — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:200:C000:2820:CCC4:1C71:A7C2:B839 (talk) 21:08, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, Dan. You will get answered the way I am doing so, on the page where you asked the question. If you choose to Create an account, then it will be possible for people replying to you to ping you, so that you get a notification next time you log in.
 * To be frank, I haven't read your question in detail. Putting too much detail in a question on a general page like this is often counterproductive: it is better to go into detail somewhere where people with an interest in the particular article are likely to be found: either on the talk page of the article, or on the talk page of a suitable WikiProject (perhaps WT:WikiProject Poetry).
 * To answer your specific questions: a relative is generally assumed to have a conflict of interest, and so is advised not to edit the article directly, but to make edit requests on the article's talk page. If somebody wishes to embark on the very difficult task of creating an article about a relative, they may do so, but should use the Articles for creation process, and make their relationship clear on their user page. (Not having an account, you haven't currently got a user page).
 * To answer your second question: there is nothing to stop somebody else coming and altering the article. Any Wikipedia editor may edit (nearly) any article, as long as they abide by Wikipedia's principles and policies; which say (among other things) that they should faithfully summarise what reliable published sources say about the subject. Original research is not acceptable, including synthesis from different sources. No Wikipedia article should ever include argumentation, advocacy, or drawing conclusions, though it may report on these as advanced in single reliable published sources.
 * While experts are welcomed in editing Wikipedia, they often find it difficult to adjust to a context in which other editors will not defer to them simply because they are experts: see WP:Expert editors. ColinFine (talk) 21:38, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @ColinFine Did you miss a "not" in "which other editors will defer"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:23, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I did indeed. Thank you Gråbergs Gråa Sång ColinFine (talk) 23:20, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @ColinFine Perhaps you would like to now insert the missing "not" into your comment so that other readers aren't misled by its absence. - R. S. Shaw (talk) 01:36, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
 * - done now. --ColinFine (talk) 10:29, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Dan! Following up on the advice given by, the best place to discuss the Frances Cornford article is the article's talk page: Talk:Frances Cornford by posting your concerns or suggestions, along with the request edit template to get help from other editors.  Or, you may find it easier to use the Edit Request Wizard.  Thanks for your efforts to improve Wikipedia! GoingBatty (talk) 03:44, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
 * IP editor, "what is to stop someone coming along the next week, and deleting it all and writing their own version???" WP has editors who look at all changes, and can revert any destructive (or "disruptive") changes, along with changes that do not improve the encyclopedia.  If a page was completely changed, it would likely be reverted and the one who rewrote it would be asked to discuss their proposed changes on the article's "talk" page. And all newly written info needs references, so an unreferenced replacement article would not survive. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 01:35, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Beatrice Doran
Someone has put me up on Wikipedia which is not a great problem. However, the dste of my appointment to the RCSI as Library Director is incorrect. I began at the Royal College of Surgeons in 1986. Is it possible for me to find out who added me to Wikipedia without my permission?

Keep up the great work - it is an invaluable resource.

Kind regards

Beatrice Doran

Dr. Beatrice Doran — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8084:60A3:6380:30E5:C6F2:6563:6E3B (talk) 21:29, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, Beatrice. You can see the account names of everybody who has edited an article by looking at that article's history; but this will not necessarily help you, since many editors use pseudonyms. The permission of the subject of an article is neither sought nor required: since an article is supposed to be based solely on reliably published material, anybody may create or edit it except the subject or their associates, who are expected to restrict themselves to requesting changes using the edit request mechanism.
 * If you see a problem in the article Beatrice Doran, please see WP:AUTOPROB for what you can do about it. As for the date of your arrival at RCSI, that is sourced to The Irish Times, which says that you arrived there in 1991. I'm afraid that, unless you can produce a reliable published source that says 1986, or unless you can persuade the Irish Times to publish a correction, that is unlikely to change: see WP:verifiability. ColinFine (talk) 22:05, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The post says "Library Director". The Irish Times says "chief librarian" and "Having moved to the RCSI in 1991". RCSI itself says "1986 – first female professional librarian". Health Information News & Thinking says "took on the role of Librarian in RCSI in 1986". I guess "Library Director", "chief librarian", "professional librarian" and "Librarian" all refer to the same position and the Irish Times got the year wrong so I have changed the year to 1986 and just said "librarian". PrimeHunter (talk) 22:54, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, you can be promoted from a librarian to a library director. Maybe 1986 is right for librarian, and 1991 is for library director.  Still, your change covers it. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 01:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)