Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2022 March 13

= March 13 =

How to reply on talk pages using reply box
Can you ask me how to reply using many talk pages using reply box (for example: [reply] )? 2001:44B8:41C6:F700:5C17:7652:27D9:A01F (talk) 04:10, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You'll find more information at WP:REPLYTOOL. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 07:15, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm testing the "reply" tool. I wonder if it'll get the indentation right. Maproom (talk) 08:19, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It works well! It got the indentation right, and added my sig for me. To use it, you click on "reply", type into the box that appears, and click the blue "Reply" button. It indents and signs your reply for you. Maproom (talk) 08:24, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It might work for logged out editors if you append  to the url. &#8213;  Qwerfjkl  talk  12:07, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Standard of life for me
I don’t want it to be a joke I know what I need to do for the future and I’ll be happy to help you out with this one I don’t want it in my account with the name of the company that I got from the other day I was in a hurry to get back to my house so I don’t know how much I will have to do. I have been working on here for a long time and I will see if I could help you get some stuff done before I leave here for a better place — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roundnutz14 (talk • contribs) 09:14, 13 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the Helpdesk. Do you have a question on about how to use or edit Wikipedia? If you want to help out see To-do list.--Shantavira|feed me 09:26, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Read Tab name is changed BUT only when I am logged in
Hi I see the normal 'read' tab when I am mot logged in. BUT When logged in I see what appears to be a slur rather than "Read".

(Checked on Windows 11 with both Edge (vanilla), and Chrome(extensions), and Windows defender) I assume that I have some sort of malware and will check it out

 Kenkan  Edit  Edit source  View history </li><li id="ca-watch" class="mw-watchlink icon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Longwarry,_Victoria&amp;action=watch" data-mw="interface" title="Add this page to your watchlist [w]" accesskey="w"> Watch </a></li></ul> Wakelamp d&#91;@-@&#93;b (talk) 10:29, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Try setting your interface language to en in preferences. &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  12:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * @Wakelamp: See 'Read' replaced by 'Kenkan' in British English? above . &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  12:09, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Archived.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  23:11, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Template:trim not trimming
produces &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  12:11, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Template:trim says: "This template trims leading and trailing (but not interior) whitespace from a string." There is no leading and trailing whitespace in your example so there is nothing to trim. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:28, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Is there a more appropriate template? &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  12:34, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * A more appropriate template to do what? 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:27, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Making sure the ping is there for . 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:30, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It's fine, I found plain text. &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  07:03, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Delete my today's edits
Can anyone delete my today's edits? Not good for my mental health as I don't want to get into debates that are political in nature. Refer this. Thank you. Krish &#124;  Talk To Me  14:27, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * As you probably know, you can go to the "View History" tab of any article you have edited and click the "undo" button alongside any row, including rows that refer to your own earlier edits. Leave an edit summary that says "removed own edit as inappropriate" or similar. Alternatively, just stop editing the article(s) in question and let other editors decide what it is sensible to leave and what to remove. Above all, don't stress and don't WP:editwar. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:37, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I don't think any of your edits would be suitable for REVDEL. I suggest just self reverting and walking away. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Can I remove my edits from talk pages of articles, and . I have come back from a long break here and I think I need some time to recall the rules especially about removing own edits from talk pages? Krish  &#124;  Talk To Me  14:41, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * If nobody has replied, you can remove something you've written. Once it's been responded to, however, you shouldn't remove it or change it at all. If you don't want to get into a debate, however, you could just post that you don't want to discuss it any further and you're happy to drop the matter? Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)  14:53, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * On talk pages, it is not good practice to remove your contributions but it is perfectly acceptable to write something then later strike it out if you want to retract the contribution, either because you see that someone else's argument is valid or just because you've changed your mind. See WP:REDACT for the details Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:21, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

One article was probably deleted in bad faith
I have discovered that the article about Big Baby Tape was deleted from English Wikipedia by AfD. In AfD discussion what struck me was that one of the users (who mentioned he speaks Russian natively on his user page) stressed that the article needs to be deleted because the article didn't have any sources to back it.

I can't help but suspect bad faith here. Big baby tape even was on the front page of NYT once link, he, albeit in a strange way, made appearance in The Moscow Times link (that's his song and this awful article is talking about a parody to it), a special about him and other notable russian rappers at northeastern.edu is available, among other English sources, and numerous notable sources in Russian, like Afisha Daily and others.

He was so heavily promoted in Russia by Warner Music and Sony Music that the "no sources" reply struck me as bad faith. Living in Russia it was barely possible to escape the hype about Big Baby Tape since 2018. Worth mentioning that his 2018 album and 2021 albums were, respectively, the most talked-about albums in Russian rap around those years ("Dragonborn" in 2018 and "Bandana" in 2021).

The other thing is that he was despised by so many Russians cause they despised his lyrics as trashy and unintelligent. Many, as I know, got on the fence religiously while trying to dismiss him.

And that's the reason why I suspect the bad faith. I think that user was one of the so called haters. Because if you know Russian it takes a split second googling and finding the sources, if you even never heard about that rapper. Moreof, as far as I remember the article did have numerous sources, in Russian though, and his comment was about the lack of English sources.

The article wasn't bad, if I recall correctly, and AfD flew under radar for god knows what reason.

Now I have found the article about Face, who is another great rapper from Russia from the same era. I skimmed through the sources on his page and I have found that the sources are more or less on par notability-wise with sources about Big Baby Tape, again, as far as I remember the previously deleted article about him.

The question is what is the procedure to restore the page about Big Baby Tape?

Disclaimer: I am not related to Big Baby Tape and neither I am the author of that deleted article RuskiyRepVybralMenya (talk) 14:53, 13 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I just looked at the AfD discussion, and at the deleted article. The deleted article was entirely devoid of reliable sources. Aside from the nominator, three editors in good standing !voted delete because they were unable to find good sources. I don't see any reason to assume bad faith, and I think that you should retract that accusation. If you have been able to identify some reliable sources, there is nothing preventing you from creating a new article about this subject; I'd advise you to create a draft for review through the WP:AfC process. Best  Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)  15:01, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The only references were and . PrimeHunter (talk) 15:20, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * If this was the case then indeed these are rather poor sources. Where can I see the text of it? RuskiyRepVybralMenya (talk) 15:24, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The user in question is the nominator of that AfD. I firmly stand my ground as of now. Maybe the nominator himself (@User:Corwin_of_Amber) may explain that nomination? How was it possible to not know about Big Baby Tape? I can understand that the article could be badly written and thus not worthy of presense in Wikipedia, but he went on to claim that the topic had "no indication of notability". How's that? I ask Corwin of Amber to explain his position, as I am seeing right now that he is still active on Wikipedia. I could understand other voters on AfD, as it seems to me they genuinely didn't know about the topic in question, which is understandable, as they seem to not speak Russian, but I can't at all understand the position of Corwin of Amber, if it was not for bad faith. If I recall correctly, the deleted article was translated straight from Russian Wikipedia, and so a speaker of Russian could visit (and probably should have visited) that page to see what it is all about before AfD'ing it. If he takes his minute to explain how this was possible it would be great, "I am not trying to attack, I am trying to understand".
 * Moreof, @User:Girth Summit, now that the article is deleted I have no idea how to restore its text, so if you could take your minute to help me do it I would definitely try to re-instate it, I would appreciate that. I would plainly and simply add sources to it then and call it a day. Writing it from scratch is time-consuming and hard especially knowing that it was there before RuskiyRepVybralMenya (talk) 15:22, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * This forum is not the appropriate location to make accusations of bad faith editing. If you want to go down that path, the correct location is WP:ANI. I warn you, however, that an accusation that someone has acted in back faith that is not supported by evidence is considered a personal attack.
 * I am not willing to restore an article that was lacking in sources, and which was deleted by consensus at AfD. Again - if you have good sources, there is nothing preventing you from writing a new article from scratch and putting it through WP:AfC. Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)  15:30, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I wasn't asking for a restoration, I was asking for text. But as you wish, I think I can restore the text myself RuskiyRepVybralMenya (talk) 15:34, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Be sure to familiarise yourself with WP:BLP first. It looks like the previous author wasn't aware of that policy, I see serious violations in the deleted article. Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)  15:47, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you RuskiyRepVybralMenya (talk) 17:11, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm, by the way, right now got swamped into re-creating that article (it feels bad to do that while not being paid for that, feels miserable, like if I'm doing a free PR for that rapper). I am in the middle of it and if you want, you can read it and criticize all you want, all criticism is welcome RuskiyRepVybralMenya (talk) 17:14, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * RuskyRepVybralMenya, if you "feel like you're doing free PR for that rapper" then you have misunderstood what Wikipedia is. Promotion of any kind is forbidden on Wikipedia. If you or anybody else succeeds in creating an article about Big Baby Tape, the article will not belong to him or to you, will not be controlled by him or by you, will not be for his benefit except incidentally, will not necessarily say what he would like it to say, and should be based almost entirely on what people who have no connection with him have chosen to publish about him. The great majority of Wikipedia articles are not written by or on behalf of the subject, and are not written by paid editors. ColinFine (talk) 23:43, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Huh? I don't think he's doing it for promotional purposes, I think he's saying doing the work feels like free PR for the rapper and nothing for him, which is definitely an understandable feeling. Skarmory   (talk •   contribs)  00:50, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Well, I think I am retracting my ground as the behavior of Corwin is not my concern, my primary concern is how to restore that article. If Corwin takes time to explain, then it would be great, if not, well, that's not my concern RuskiyRepVybralMenya (talk) 15:28, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * No other editor has to respond to you. If you think the deletion discussion was closed wrongly WP:DRV is the place. ANI if it's for a person inappropriately editing. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:18, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Close peer review
Hello Help desk editors. I kindly request assistance in closing the peer review for Timeline of Francis Drake's circumnavigation. It is a two step process, and I believe I have correctly completed the first step. However, I am hopelessly confused how to complete the second step. If someone could do this for me or perhaps direct me to exactly where the proper template should be added, please do so. Most kind regards, Hu Nhu (talk) 15:17, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ – see Special:Diff/1076905837. DanCherek (talk) 15:20, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your attention to this, . Kind regards,Hu Nhu (talk) 01:15, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Gene Vincent
You have two different years and dates for his death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.173.70.191 (talk) 15:26, 13 March 2022 (UTC)


 * OK, had a look at Gene Vincent. The infobox and article text are consistent on this (b February 11, 1935 – d October 12, 1971), can you be more specific about the problem?-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 15:33, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Where to send complaints about front page?
The "Did You Know?" section of the front page today contains information about torture, and a potentially upsetting image (racialized torture) is on the front page. I don't know if this is supposed to happen or not, but I'd like to record a complaint so removing such displays can be considered in the future. Where should I direct this complaint? Thank you. -Etoile ✩ (talk) 17:14, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:ERRORS Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:19, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Getting help with a personal page
Hello,

I would like to have a Wikipedia page. I think I have had a significant career in music that would warrant inclusion. I don't have the time to make my own page (still working) and I don't want to pay a service for this. I have a "my life in music" document that I've created over the years that has most of the relevant information. Do Wikipedia volunteers ever construct pages for people, with their support? If so, how might I put such a request out. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SavMus (talk • contribs) 19:07, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has articles, not pages. Wikipedia articles summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about (in this case) a musician, showing how they meet the special Wikipedia definition of a notable musician- not what people say about themselves. If you are truly notable, it is best to allow independent editors to take note of your career in sources and choose on their own to write about you. Trying to force the issue is not always successful.
 * Be advised that a Wikipedia article about yourself is not necessarily a good thing. There are good reasons to not want one. 331dot (talk) 19:17, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * We would need to see evidence in online or offline sources (such as newspapers, news magazines, music magazines, or scholarly books) that you've been written about to some extent or have achieved some sort of milestone, in in-depth, non-routine, independent articles/books that have identifiable authors and have been fact-checked for accuracy. That "my life in music" document would not be usable in this regard (not independent). —<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>  v^_^v  a little blue Bori 19:20, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Please be very careful if you decide to "pay a service". No service has any special relationship to Wikipedia, nor does a service have any editing privileges beyond those of volunteers. In fact, a service is a "paid editor" whose contributions are more restricted than those of an uninvolved volunteer: see WP:PAID. Furthermore, there are quirte a few "services" that are less than ethical. A service might write an article for you, but no service can guarantee that such an article will remain on Wikipedia. -Arch dude (talk) 19:27, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Here's my website. There are a lot of postings about my work on the Internet. www.stevesavage.net Please advise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SavMus (talk • contribs) 19:30, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * My advice is to, as I said above, allow independent editors to take notice of you in independent sources and choose on their own to write about you. Anything else is not likely to succeed. You could make a request at requested articles, but the backlog there is so severe as to make it useless. 331dot (talk) 19:35, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * OK. thank you.  there's been a lot of press about me recently since my nonprofit music school just celebrated it's 50th anniversary.  I suppose someone Wikipedia volunteer might notice. SavMus (talk) 19:37, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I have to ask, exactly which of the criteria in WP:MUSICBIO do you feel that you meet? ~Anachronist (talk) 19:40, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi I think I would meet most any criteria for record producer.  Savage has recorded and/or mixed over 50 commercially released CDs in a wide range of genres including Grammy nominated CDs for Robert Cray, John Hammond, The Gospel Hummingbirds and Elvin Bishop (2009, 2017 and 2018).   Also for author with two books published by Oxford University Press. SavMus (talk) 19:57, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * We don't have criteria for record producers other than the general or biographical guidelines. In fact, we don't have specific notability criteria for most forms of "backstage" personnel, which is a shame since sourcing for them is rarer than hen's teeth. They say the lead singer's hot but the group is not, and all that. —<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>  v^_^v  a little blue Bori 20:03, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I see many of my colleagues and less "notable" folks in my field with Wikipedia articles. The recognition is kind of nice - but it's not critical.  I'm not going to hire someone to do it.  Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.  Thanks. SavMus (talk) 20:14, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * @SavMus I took a look at your website, your publications might justify an article about you as an author or perhaps even as an academic. I hope this helps. (ping @Jéské Couriano) Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:21, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

3209134606
My id moje dediye muje maf kardo sorry — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.0.54.126 (talk) 21:37, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Welcome to English Wikipedia. Please post your question in English.  RudolfRed (talk) 21:48, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

"state" usage inside template
I was trying to understand some of the code inside Template:Unicode blocks and I don't grok what's up with this code:

The context is below, which I take to be constructing a CSS class name to be used for a wikitable.
 * {|class="wikitable sortable collapsible "

I don't understand just what "state" is and what it does. As far as I can tell, it is not a template, so I would guess it is some type of predefined function at some level. Thanks for whatever enlightenment you can give me. -- R. S. Shaw (talk) 21:43, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * refers to the parameter state. When state is omitted, the template uses the value in.
 * The default rendering for outside of template space (when state is ) is collapsed.  That is the function of the   call.  It detects the namespace and when in template namespace, returns   but in all other namespaces, returns.
 * You can override that default by setting autocollapse ( in template namespace) or uncollapsed (  all other namespaces).
 * Note that  is different from  ; in the former, state evaluates to an empty string which is not the same as omitted.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 22:21, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * See Help:Template. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:40, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note that  is different from  ; in the former, state evaluates to an empty string which is not the same as omitted.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 22:21, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * See Help:Template. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:40, 13 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Trappist the monk, PrimeHunter - Thanks. I see I had (and have) some basic template internals to learn. --R. S. Shaw (talk) 06:01, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Re categoriesby country & year
Re categories by country/year the template seems to work, as does  but not for Canada using

See Category:2016 awards in Canada. Likewise perhaps the decades template.

Compare: using template Category:2017 awards in Bangladesh, Category:2017 awards in the United States

Compare: not using template Category:2017 awards in Canada, Category:2017 awards in the United Kingdom some without decades eg "2010s awards in the United Kingdom")

Hugo999 (talk) 21:44, 13 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Every template has to be created separately. We often have more content for the US than other countries. Special:PrefixIndex/Template:YYYY awards and Special:PrefixIndex/Template:YYY0s awards show these awards templates have only been made for the US and Bangladesh. A Bangladeshi editor made versions for Bangladesh based on the US version. Special:PrefixIndex/Template:YYYY in nationality shows some topics have a more general template with nationality as a parameter or automatically read from the category name, but there is no such template for awards. However, other years like Category:2021 awards in Canada have an even more general template Navseasoncats which can read both year and country from the category name. You can just add it to Category:2016 awards in Canada. When creating a category, I suggest you always look for the code used in similar categories. For Category:2016 awards in Canada this can both be another country like Category:2016 awards in the United States, another year like Category:2021 awards in Canada, and another topic like Category:2016 crimes in Canada. For year categories it's usually best to look for another year. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:06, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Well I have used Navseasoncats but I thought at least Category:2016 awards in the United Kingdom etc would have nearly as much content as that for the United States. but they are already created back to 1970 anyway. Generally for events by country and month the United States and the United Kingdom are tops, followed by Australia and Canada, then perhaps India (all big and largely English-speaking!) Hugo999 (talk) 06:06, 14 March 2022 (UTC)