Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2022 November 15

= November 15 =

Rename
Hello. I need to rename two articles, about ski resorts in the upper peninsula in michigan. These two articles are Indianhead Mountain and Blackjack Ski Resort (Bessemer, Michigan), which need to be renamed to Jackson Creek Summit and Black River Basin, respectively. They need to be renamed after they both undertook new ownership a couple months ago, which is removing the native american names at the mountain. I honestly have no idea how to do this and I don't want to try and mess something up. Thanks! Cherrell410 (talk) 01:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @Cherrell410 Have a looksee at WP:Requested moves. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 01:14, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi . Just going to add that when you submit a requested move, you're going to also be expected to justify the need for the name change by providing some reliable sources in support. I'm only mentioning this because you have provided any such "proof" in either of the two move requests you started. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks Cherrell410 (talk) 14:12, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Supported and added a reference (the rename is pretty far down in the article, so maybe there is better). Normally going through this it may take a bit (week is not uncommon), but more likely to be done correctly. You may want to edit the article to show include the purchase and rename, expecting that the articles will be renamed soon. Let me know if you run into any issues.Naraht (talk) 14:22, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

On Wikipedia I see my username, on Wikimedia i can not see it
I use Firefox. When I log in to Wikipedia, I see my username. When I go to Wikimedia routinely I DON'T SEE my username, Wikimedia asks me to log in. Why? From February until now, I have always easily switched from Wikipedia to Wikimedia and my username has always been visible without any problems. What is the problem? G. Koljesar 02:34, 15 November 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keresturec (talk • contribs)
 * Hi . I don't think there's any problem per se. I just think it might take some time for the system to catch up to you when you're quickly jumping from English Wikipedia to some other project. This happens to me as well and usually all I need to do is click the "Log in" link at the top of the page and wait a bit for the system to catch up. Sometimes the page will refresh itself, and sometimes I have to do it. Anyway, after that I usually don't have a problem unless I log out. However, I don't use Firefox so it's possible that things work different using that browser. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I tried waiting on Wikimedia to refresh my username. But when I clicked Log In to Wikimedia, I got a page with my Wikipedia username and password. I thought everything was going to be OK. When I clicked Log In, Wikimedia told me that it was an incorrect password. I tried everything with the Edge browser and everything was OK, both on Wikipedia and on Wikimedia, and I could work in Incubator and write down my username, not just the IP number. I don't know what happened to Firefox, it served me well since February and now, suddenly, it doesn't allow me to "transfer" my username from Wikipedia to Wikimedia. G. Koljesar 14:25, 15 November 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keresturec (talk • contribs)
 * I'm not sure why you're having this problem just on Firefox. You might want to try asking about this at WP:VPT since someone there might be better able to help you sort this out. Perhaps, it's a known issue and a work-around or fix has already been or is in the process of being developed. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:33, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Source from the author himself
I was editing an article about a certain piece of hardware, and the most notable reference I found was a blog written by the creator of that piece of hardware. Can I still include it ? (please use&#32; on reply) Vincent-vst (talk) 06:20, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi . Possibly, but there would be limitations placed on how such a source could be cited per WP:ABOUTSELF and WP:PRIMARY. If, for example, it was just a general description of how the device worked, then it might be OK to cite such a source; if, on the other hand, it involved any claims (particularly exceptional ones) about the device, other similar products or anything about third-parties, then you probably shouldn't. Lastily, what I posted is all in the context of WP:V; primary sources can't really be used to establish WP:N as explained in WP:GNG. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:01, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Marchjuly I think you're quite right about Notability. I started this because it was a 'requested article'. But requested doesn't mean it's notable, right ? Vincent-vst (talk) 08:16, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That's right. If people who requested articles at WP:RA included the sources that might establish notability, there might be a bigger pick-up of suggestions there. ColinFine (talk) 13:25, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

15 November 2022
Movie into Main Page (Article) convert Draft:The Land Of Skulls 2021 Please Help Me Sir! Farhan RR Pakistan (talk) 11:12, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I have added the information to the draft to allow you to submit it for a review. New accounts cannot directly create articles, and need to use the draft submission process. It's also a good idea to do that even if you can directly create articles, as creating a new article is the most difficult task to attempt on Wikipedia.  If you are associated with this film, please read WP:COI and WP:PAID. 331dot (talk) 11:14, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If you help me convert this page to the main page, I give you a lot of respect and will continue to do so inshallah. Farhan RR Pakistan (talk) 11:27, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I have said how you can do exactly that. 331dot (talk) 11:29, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks Sir I know!
 * Sir, may I ask you, where are you from? Farhan RR Pakistan (talk) 11:33, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * You are free to view my user page. 331dot (talk) 11:48, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * G thanks sir I Love You Farhan RR Pakistan (talk) 12:52, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sir can you visit my page. Farhan RR Pakistan (talk) 12:53, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * While you are waiting for the draft to be reviewed, I suggest you check the citations. Of the five links there, the first two fail to open for me with "secure connection failed" - I suspect this means that the sites' certificate is invalid. The Radio Times link gives a 404, and the Forbes link opens, but has no content on the target page.
 * So the only one I can actually see anything in is the Flexinews one, which has only a brief synopsis.
 * In any case, you need to find several sources each one of which is all three of the following: 1) a reliable source, 2) wholly independent of the subject and 3) containing significant coverage of the subject. As far as I can tell, not one of your references meet these criteria. Until you have found several suitable sources, and can thus demonstrate that the film meets Wikipedia's criteria for WP:notability, the draft will never be accepted, and any and all work that you put in to the draft will be wasted effort.
 * Finally, I ask you a direct question: are you Farhan Rana Rajpoot? If you are, then you are in breach of Wikipedia's terms of service, by not formally declaring that you are a paid editor. ColinFine (talk) 13:56, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * OP is now blocked as a sockpuppet. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:11, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia
Hi, Back in April 2021 I got a member of my team to publish a wikipedia page about our CRM company Intilery. It stayed up for 3 weeks before being removed with a message saying that it was not deemed to be of interest to the public. Do you have any insight as to why this is the case for Intilery and not many of our competitors like Hubspot (whos pages seem to remain up)? 2A00:23C6:5393:9801:5119:68A4:7D99:48E5 (talk) 14:11, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * As I suspect you are aware, the page was not removed for not being of interest to the public but for being blatantly advertorial. For yourself, I would also note that as someone who will count as a paid editor, you would need to register an account and disclose that status on your userpage. You would also need to create a draft (which we'd recommend anyway) rather than attempting to directly create an article. Nosebagbear (talk) 14:29, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If either your company or your software have been independently written about enough to meet Wikipedia's criteria for company notability or software notability respectively, then Wikipedia could have an article about one or the other (or articles about both, if both are notable). Such articles would not belong to you, would not be controlled by you, would not be for your benefit except incidentally, would not necessarily say what you wanted them to say, and should be based almost entirely on what people unconnected with you had published about your company or your software, not on what you or your associates say or want to say.
 * If they do not meet the notability requirements, then it would be a waste of yours and anybody else's time trying to create an article. If they do, then you or your employees are permitted (though not encouraged) to try the remarkably difficult task of creating an article. You or they would be required to register an account (individual accounts if more than one person was to work on it), and make the mandatory formal declaration that they were a paid editor (see that link for details). Then they should study your first article, and use the WP:AFC process to create a draft. Having found the independent sources, they would then need to forget what they knew about the company/software and write an article based on what the independent sources say about it. ColinFine (talk) 16:57, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That's really useful thank you. Note that my colleague did register and the article was not blatantly advertorial, we followed the structure and type of information that other CRMs have written about them on Wikipedia (if there is the facility to attach a screen grab I took when it was live I'm happy to do so?). 2A00:23C6:5393:9801:5119:68A4:7D99:48E5 (talk) 09:15, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not always a good idea to use other articles as a model or example, as those too could be inappropriate and simply not addressed yet. See other stuff exists.  If you want to use other articles as a model, use those classified as good articles, which have been vetted by other editors. 331dot (talk) 09:24, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 * You don't need to provide a screenshot as administrators can look at the deleted article Intilery.  You are apparently comparing with articles on other companies, but (as pointed out above) the acceptability of an article depends on the quality of the independent sources referenced.  This would be examined if you generate a draft after registering an account and declaring paid editing.  A warning regarding comparison is given at WP:Other stuff exists. - David Biddulph (talk) 09:27, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Unable to Cite/Add References
We are trying to create a Wikipedia page for one of our brand visionaries (BV) and are running into the issue of citing/adding references to appearances that he's made. We continually are getting error messages that both the website for BiggerPockets and YouTube are blocked by Wikipedia, but without any explanation as to why.

Our BV has not only done several interviews on BiggerPockets, but is also one of the panelists on one of their podcasts, not to mention that many of the interviews that he's done can be easily found and seen on YouTube.

Firstly - why are both of these popular websites blocked and second, how do we go about unblocking them or at least, allowing us to use these links? Devongreene (talk) 14:54, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * - 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:16, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Interviews on BiggerPockets' are highly unlikely to be acceptable as sources for anything of consequence. It is a commercial website selling 'educational resources'. And neither is anything on YouTube not uploaded by reputable sources entirely unconnected with the subject of the biography. I suggest you read Notability and Reliable sources before proceeding any further, since as it stands, your draft entirely lacks the citations demonstrating the significant coverage in independent sources necessary to be accepted. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Devongreene There are several things here that need to be discussed.
 * First off, you need to understand, on a deep and intuitive level, that Wikipedia is not the place for advertising.
 * Links to YouTube are not blocked, but they are strongly discouraged. See the section on YouTube in the content guideline on external links.  See also links to be avoided.
 * I have never heard of BiggerPockets and do not know why (or if) it is blocked. However, you mention that it hosts interviews done by the subject of the draft you are working on. Please note that articles need to be based primarily on independant sources, and an interview with the article subject is not independent.
 * Any time one refers to themselves in the plural as you do above ("We are trying to create") it rings alarm bells for Wikipedians. Accounts are supposed to be individual, with only one person having access to them.  Moreover, the fact that you (plural) are trying to create a "page" (please note that this is an encyclopedia, with articles, not a social media site, with pages) for one of your "brand visionaries" indicates that you are here for advertising/promotional/public relations purposes, and thus are not here to build an encyclopedia.  Please see point 1.
 * In order to create an acceptable article, you first need to understand the concept of notability as Wikipedia uses that word, then be satisfied that your "brand visionary" meets the Wikipedia definition of notability as applied to people and companies. At that point you will need at minimum 3 reliable sources that are unconnected to your company or its "brand visionary", and you will need to forget everything you know about the brand visionary and use only those sources to write the article.
 * You have done the correct thing by disclosing your conflict of interest on your user page. Thank you for that.
 * Let me know if you have more questions. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 15:57, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * 'biggerpockets.com' is on the global spam blacklist (reserved for "widespread, unmanageable spam"). See also WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/biggerpockets.com AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:23, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @ONUnicorn Looking at the spam blacklist log, I believe the youtu.be shortcut domain is blocked (while the longer www.youtube.com URL's still works afaik) Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 20:28, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Victor Schmidt mobil That makes sense. Thanks. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 20:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @ONUnicornThanks for the response back. Kinda out of order, but to address the 4th point on the "we" - this is done by an individual, I just happen to be filling in for them on this particular project as they are out for a family emergency. Only one person will be working on this, but again, I am filling in for them at the moment. They are the assistant - like if a celebrity had an assistant - to the subject and again, they are out for a family emergency.
 * As @Victor Schmidt mobil noted, it is the youtu.be shortcut that is blacklisted, however I did use a full YouTube link and the draft was flagged for using a YouTube link. The reason for the link is that the interview's video version (which is taken from the podcast) is on YouTube. I can certainly use the podcast's website, but it seems strange that all of YT would be blocked even when using a full link (understood that not every video on YT is resource worthy, but considering video IS a popular medium and that is by far the most popular - in contrast to say Vimeo - it's odd that it would be blacklisted).
 * BiggerPockets is a real estate resource website, that has a blog and a few different podcasts, which our subject is a panelist on. I can certainly make that a citation - such as what Shaquille O'neal has on his Wiki with his podcast - but because the link is blocked, I can't. Again, not sure the reason why it would be blocked. But BiggerPockets was a thing before the subject was a panelist for one of their podcasts.
 * Again, sorry for the misunderstanding - this is going to be an article, not a page per se, that's kinda what we call Wiki pages (in the outside world of Wiki, that is) and obviously, I've never used Wiki on the backend before, so the process is slightly confusing, but hence the questions! Devongreene (talk) 21:36, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 * We do not permit sharing or fill-ins or assistants on an account. Since you admit that more than one person has used this account, I have blocked it as a compromised account. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  13:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Devongreene You said  "...considering video IS a popular medium and that [YouTube] is by far the most popular - in contrast to say Vimeo - it's odd that it would be blacklisted".
 * Popularity has nothing to do with discouraging the use of YouTube. But the content on YT is user-generated (in most cases) without editorial control or fact-checking (with a few exceptions).  Any random person can say anything they want on YouTube, whether it's true, false, misleading,  etc., so using YouTube videos as an authoritative source is problematic.   And again, the use of YouTube is not "blocked" or blacklisted, just strongly discouraged. David10244 (talk) 08:33, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

How to upload an image from an IP?
I'm trying to upload an image for use in an article currently in draft. As an IP editor, it seems I cannot do so. Is there any way to do this? I am not going to create an account. 108.168.93.43 (talk) 16:19, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * There is not. Someone with an account would have to do it for you. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:31, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * But you may request that at WP:Files for upload. Note that most images must be freely-licensed to be used - see c:Help:Upload for details of that. English Wikipedia allows limited use of non free images, but for this they must meet all the criteria in the WP:Non-free content criteria, one of which is that they may only be used in an article, not a draft. So if your image is in this category, you will have to wait until your draft has been acceptad as an article. ColinFine (talk) 17:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I am familiar with the requirements... Colin, would you consider uploading it? I can point you to the URL. 108.168.93.43 (talk) 17:41, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Error in Community Portal Page
There is an error on the Community Portal page under the Fix Wikilinks heading. The "more" link goes only to the category of "pages with too few wikilinks," with no way to navigate to "too many wikilinks" or related problems that I can see. Could this please be amended? 184.67.135.194 (talk) 19:34, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * This is not an error, IP editor - the "More" links on that page are to more articles in the same category, not to related categories. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:17, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * To clarify, the articles above the "more" link have various problems with links: too many, not enough, or orphaned pages. But the more link only goes to the one category. Perhaps it's not an error per se but it would be more useful if it went to a broader category. 184.67.135.194 (talk) 20:28, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, there isn't a broader "Link issues" category. You could suggest one on the talk page of the relevant WikiProject (here) or submit one for creation via this process. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:43, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for pointing me in the right direction! 184.67.135.194 (talk) 20:54, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Editing Personal Opinion
So, I’m very new to editing, and earlier I was reading an essay (NOT a verified article) and it kept using very inflammatory and unnecessarily rude language. Would it be good of me to change this to make it more neutral (or, at least, less mean)? The title of the page is “Wikipedia: Why Wikipedia is not so great” The date of publishing this question is November 15, 2022 Esoteric&#38;Didactic (talk) 22:07, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * - 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That's maybe not the best place a for a new editor to start. Technically, no article is "owned" by anyone, so you have just as much right to change it as any other editor including the original author. However, essays fall in a gray area. I've been editing here since 2006, and I would not step into that mess. If you do decide to get involved there, I suggest that you start by raising your concerns on the article's talk page and attempting to achieve some consensus. -Arch dude (talk) 22:31, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Esoteric&Didactic I've had a quick look at that essay. I can't find anything which I might describe as "inflammatory and unnecessarily rude". Bazza (talk) 09:23, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, . That essay was mostly written by about half a dozen people in the 2004 to 2007 period, when editing Wikipedia was a fad. The essay is a shambles and has very little credibility in 2022. I suggest that you ignore it. Cullen328 (talk) 17:28, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Why was this page deleted?
Why was the “List of Unity games” page deleted? - Keysbutschool — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keysbutschool (talk • contribs) 22:46, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * You can see the discussion at Articles_for_deletion/List_of_CryEngine_games RudolfRed (talk) 22:49, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Keysbutschool Hello. You can also check out Why was the page I created deleted?. Thanks! echidnaLives  -  talk  -  edits  23:45, 15 November 2022 (UTC)