Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2022 October 5

= October 5 =

Where to find old Canadian TV ratings data (specifically 1987-1992)?
Hi, I apologize if this is not the correct place to ask, but I've been editing many articles about the Degrassi teen drama franchise for the past eighteen months and I have been looking for Canadian ratings data from 1987 to 1992 to add to the articles and episode lists. Multiple newspapers at the time claimed that the show had an average of a million viewers weekly and I want to cite the exact figures the same way American TV show articles cite Nielsen data, instead of citing claims and estimates from newspapers. If anybody could help out, I would greatly appreciate it. ToQ100gou (talk) 00:57, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi . You might want to try asking about this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Degrassi task force since the members of those groups might be able to give you a quicker response. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:21, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello @ToQ100gou. Adding on to @Marchjuly's response— you may want to leave a comment at Reference desk/Entertainment. Hope this helps! Helloheart   (talk)  03:22, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * In addition to the above advice, if you have a very specific idea of the source you want, WP:RX is the place to ask. Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 13:10, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

MFD nomination
Please create the MFD nomination page for this non notable draft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4blaze_(newspaper) for deletion on my behalf as I am unable to create a new page. Please use this comment on my behalf. You can feel free to add your own !vote too.

-- 59.89.236.60 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.89.236.60 (talk • contribs) 06:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)


 * - apparently there have been shenanigans of some kind at the draft. 97.113.27.216 (talk) 12:34, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ as requested, see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:B4blaze (newspaper). &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 12:43, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Hacker
My dream is big hacker — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2401:4900:3A2C:B56A:2965:2C50:28A3:2906 (talk) 06:15, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Start by reading Hacker. -Arch dude (talk) 06:26, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

CITEREF Related Usage Questions
hi. i wand to know the internal mechanism of CITEREF and template 'harv' I encountered CITEREF in the harv template. How to use all about CITEREF.

You think that CITEREF is the anchor for footnotes. is makes anchor '#CITEREFSmith2005'

so I made it but it doesn't work. I want to create an internal link like an anchor function. thanks. --- or

 or 

--

Rlakk00 (talk) 13:33, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It is hard for me to decode what you are asking. In the general case, citation style 1 templates (, etc) create an anchor id that is the concatenation of the static text  ; the surnames from the author-name list,   from your example; and the year portion from date,   from your example to make  .  This id becomes an attribute of the rendered citation's  tag.  For example, this template (using different surname to avoid duplicate target error messaging):
 * takes surnames and dates to make a link to the citation template's anchor id:
 * Did I answer the question?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:12, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks very much, i'll try it. Rlakk00 (talk) 13:22, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Did I answer the question?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:12, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks very much, i'll try it. Rlakk00 (talk) 13:22, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Did I answer the question?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:12, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks very much, i'll try it. Rlakk00 (talk) 13:22, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Various family members are listed in Wikipedia. I would like to add a reference source to the listed information for each one. How can I do it? Thank you.
Ralph Hoffmann, Gertrude Hoffmann, Gertrude Bliss, Eleanor Hoffmann, Eleanor Beata von Erdberg, etc. CarolCairene (talk) 14:59, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * There’s a wizard to make the request here. Edit Request Wizard/COI. Since you are related, you have what Wikipedia defines as a conflict of interest (COI). You can ping me if you need help. TimTempleton (talk) (cont)  15:04, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * A conflict of interest, perhaps, but also a source of more information about each person since my source is based on family material, such as letters, articles, etc.
 * I would like to add the following to their articles: Lives in Letters: A New England Family, 1870-2000 by Caroline Williams
 * Thank you for your reply. CarolCairene (talk) 15:30, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @CarolCairene You should make the edit request easier for those who will look at it by including your book in the form of cite book as . (See my source code for the citation) Give the page numbers relevant to each person and the precise text you want that book source to support. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:49, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * , as you know, CreateSpace is a self-publishing platform. A self-published book by a family member is not a reliable source for use as a reference on Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 16:23, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * You are absolutely right, and I do not mean to engage in self-puffery. My book is based on boxes of letters and family material I inherited and which have since gone to the Massachusetts Historical society, where the material is on file. My book is an available, schematized version of this material. I like Mike Turnbull's suggestion that I cite the book, and cite pages numbers for each person, but I don't know how to do that. 50.206.141.53 (talk) 16:55, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The problem is that unpublished information may not be used as a source (ever) in Wikipedia, and information which has not been published by a reputable publisher (i.e, not reliable in Wikipedia's sense) can only be used in very limited circumstances. If information is not citable to a reliable published source, it should almost never appear in a Wikipedia article. ColinFine (talk) 17:05, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to flog a dead horse, but in addition to letters (the subject's own words) I quote material that has been published about that person. I give sources for all the material I use in compiling these profiles of family members. 50.206.141.53 (talk) 17:26, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @CarolCairene/IP editor, then please use the same published material you quoted in your book to cite additions here on Wikipedia (assuming they are reliable published sources). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:14, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * IP 50, you said "in addition to letters (the subject's own words) I quote material that has been published about that person". You can quote and cite the reliably published material, but you must omit info from the letters that have not been published by a reliable source,  even if that means omitting the subject's own words. Wikipedia is generally not interested in what the subject says about themselves; only what the secondary sources with a reputation for fact-checking say about the subject. David10244 (talk) 08:22, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, the book might quote from the letters, but if the book is self-published, unfortunately I don't think that will make info from the letters become reliable or independent. Other editors might have more info. David10244 (talk) 08:25, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for all these answers. I shall just consider printed information, but how do I add it to the profiles? 50.206.141.53 (talk) 16:54, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * We don't have "profiles" in Wikipedia; we have articles, some of which are about human beings. Just follow our normal rules for citations, citing only what we regard as reliable sources (a category which does not include self-published books). -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  17:05, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Picture Upload
Hi,

I would be grateful if you could show me how I can upload a picture to a profile

Reagrds SatchmoGH (talk) 17:28, 5 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @SatchmoGH, I have reverted your edit to Kwabena Agyapong as it was entirely inappropriate; you removed all references and added unsourced material written in an inappropriate tone.
 * Wikipedia does not have profiles, it has articles about notable subjects. If you wish to add a picture, it must be uploaded either to English Wikipedia or to Wikimedia Commons, and it must either be freely licensed (for Commons) or meet the non-free content criteria (for local uploads to English Wikipedia). What is the image you wish to upload, and what is its copyright status? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:21, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note that another account has come along to restore the deeply inappropriate content. I have reverted again. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 13:34, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

My Photo
I tried to upload a photo of me that is literally from my camera roll and is owned BY me and you people wont fucking let me up load it. Mark West69 (talk) 17:59, 5 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @Mark West69, I see you've tripped a bunch of cross-wiki upload filters, but it looks like none of them actually disallowed your upload. What message(s) did you receive? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:26, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter where the picture is, or who owns the film. The copyright owner is the person who took the actual picture. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  18:27, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * , please read this contrary legal interpretation by Wikimedia Foundation legal staff. Cullen328 (talk) 17:11, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, I've seen several times here the statement "If it's a photo of you, it almost certainly wasn't take BY you, so the copyright is owned by the person who took the photo." But I've taken many photos of myself by setting the camera up somewhere (e.g., a tripod?), putting in a 10 second delay, then running around in front.  Those are photos of me, and the copyright is owned either by me or by the little shutter timer gadget in my camera.  Uporządnicki (talk) 18:54, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, in those cases where YOU are the operator of the camera, you are also the copyright holder, and the picture is "own work". -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  20:44, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * So the unspoken assumption that I've seen from time to time here that if a photo if of you, you can't hold copyright in it because someone else must have taken it isn't necessarily warranted. Uporządnicki (talk) 20:47, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * You are correct. Our problem lies in the idea people have, that if they hand their phone/camera to a third party, and say, "Take a picture", that they own the copyright because it was their device and the picture is of them. Whereas in fact, the law in its majesty declares that the passing stranger is the copyright holder. I have photos of me with Hillary Clinton, and with Velma Dinkley, where this is the case, and I cannot use the photos in any non-social way. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  20:51, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, Mike! You'd have been OK if it was Scooby who took the picture of you and Velma, because of this. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.128.129 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:46, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Fascinating article, but why isn't there one on Cetacean Community v. Bush? Now I'm left wondering in ignorance... until I turn to Google... 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:03, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * So if I ask a random passer-by to take my picture in exchange for a penny, does that enable me to claim copyright as the commissioner of the picture? -- Verbarson talkedits 13:55, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Verbarson, see the link Cullen328 posted just above in reply to Orange Mike - it talks about such situations. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:36, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This got me looking on line about handing a passerby your camera and who owns copyright. I found an online discussion.  You might find this post amusing: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/13659488 Uporządnicki (talk) 21:01, 5 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Mark West69, your list of "contributions" doesn't suggest either that you're any of Wikipedia's Mark Wests or that your photograph would bring encyclopedic benefit. -- Hoary (talk) 09:28, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Adding an entry for a small UK trade union (now defunct)
The Telephone Contract Officers Association (TCOA) was a small UK trade union that represented men and women who sold telephones and telephone systems for what was then called Post Office Telephones and later became British Telecommunications (and was then privatised in the 1980s as BT). At one point it represented around 1,000 people and was part of the main alliance of Post Office unions in Britain. In 1980 it was merged with a larger union that itself subsequently became the Communications Workers Union. I'd like to create an entry for the TCOA. There are plenty of stories in the UK press about the union, going back to WW2, and it's recognised as having been an affiliate by the UK Trades Union Congress so I don't think there'll be any problem with notability and there are good citations (I additionally plan to get in touch with the TUC to see if I can access the union's archives). This will be my first from-scratch entry so I'd be most grateful for tips or advice here Are there any issues I should be aware of in preparing an entry of this type? Thanks! bowbrick (talk) 19:42, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * There's a brief mention of Telephone Contract Officers Association on Association of Scientific, Technical and Managerial Staffs, and it's sourced with a directory you might want to look at. John B. Smethurst and Peter Carter, Historical Directory of Trade Unions, vol.6, pp.197-198. I also see Eaton, Jack; Gill, Colin (1981). The Trade Union Directory. London: Pluto Press. pp. 54–68. ISBN 0861043502 as a ref for Transport and General Workers' Union. That article might give you some format and content ideas. You can also ask for sourcing and general content advice at Reference desk. Good luck. TimTempleton (talk) (cont)  20:40, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

signature colors
I have been trying to change the talk page link colors for my signature but i still am struggling on how to do it. Tdshe/her 20:04, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * You use HTML/CSS to do it. For example:  renders as text . In your case you can save some characters by placing the HTML inside the link, for example: she/her  (look at the source code to see what I mean).  Madeline (part of me ) 21:24, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ok thank you! Tdshe/her 17:11, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * still confusing but ill try it Tdshe/her 17:14, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

How To NOT Get Donations, 101
Only way I find to send this message. You ask for donations. You REQUIRE prospective donors to provide their email address. Many do not wish to do so, Very very many. And many are quite annoyed that you ask a favor and then impose conditions on them before we can accomodate you. We get far too much email already and we don't want to be forced to invite more for the great honor of giving you money.How many people do you suppose blow it off when they come to this demand? How many lost donations can you afford. Never, ever impose an unnecessary requirement for someone to give you money. This is dirt obvious. Smanion (talk) 20:17, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Smanion: Wikipedia doesn't have any control over how the Wikimedia Organization handles its donation scheme. If you have concerns over donations, contact . — Tenryuu 🐲  ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:23, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * If you are really interested in donating but are concerned about your email address, create a throwaway email account to use. Donations are also accepted by postal mail. 331dot (talk) 20:27, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Contact
I am having a lot of difficulty making contact with Wikipedia. I would like to start by adding your stylized "W" to my toolbox at the bottom of the page to help with this problem, and to find information to find solutions to my many other problems, just to get started. You will probably wish to know that I have made Wikipedia contributions for many years now. 2604:3D09:27D:2C00:C5D7:E086:78C9:7D6E (talk) 21:29, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has no central authority to contact, you have contacted Wikipedia by posting here. This board is for asking questions. If you have questions to pose, please do so. 331dot (talk) 21:33, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a monolithic structure with a defined hierarchy. You get in contact with its editors by using talk pages or noticeboards, not by asking for the (non-existent) manager. What staff Wikipedia has do not make editorial decisions and do not edit in their capacity as staff barring specific circumstances. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 21:34, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think you're asking how to add a link to Wikipedia somewhere on a device you're using - computer desktop? Browser? Mobile phone? If you're much more specific about what you want to do, the folks at the computing reference desk may be able to help. Whether or not you contribute makes no difference here. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:44, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * As others have said, maybe not kindly, this is the place to get help editing Wikipedia.  Maybe I can help answer what I think you are asking anyway.   If you want to create a shortcut to a WP web page, for example the main page, you should be able to do that in the same way you would create any other shortcut.  You should then be able to edit the shortcut to have any image you want as the shortcut's icon.
 * For the icon image, I think that the WP logo is available somewhere (but I don't know where), or you could take a screenshot and then crop it.  This all assumes a Windows operating system; I don't know how to do the equivalent thing in any other O/S.  Hope this helps. David10244 (talk) 10:16, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * IP editor. All the Wikipedia logos are available from Wikimedia Commons at Commons:Category:High-resolution or SVG official Wikimedia logos. Their use may be restricted, depending what you want to do with them, as explained on that linked page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:08, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

nofollow title is somehow lowercase, but in the talk page and not when I edit it!
So, the aforementioned article displays a lowercase title when viewing. However, the Talk page is called "Talk:Nofollow", and when editing, the part of the name in the URL is "Nofollow", and the page is also named "Nofollow". Same goes for the meta page. How did this wizardry happen? Is this intentional? Is there a way to change it? Aaron Liu (talk) 23:06, 5 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @Aaron Liu: If you edit the article's source, you will see it has the template lowercase title, which changes how the title is displayed to readers. Isabelle 🏳‍🌈 23:11, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, makes sense. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:16, 5 October 2022 (UTC)